Achievement gap continues to grow between high- and low-income schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a crazy troll on this thread...if not I am almost ashamed that another human being would even voice some of the ignorance being posted on here. It makes my stomach hurt.

Can you explain what the 'ignorance' being posted here is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I agree with the need for mixed housing. Not everyone wants or needs to live in a huge house. I'd be happy with a small apartment that fed into Churchill. Instead I am down county and in a small apartment to close the gap between FA and tuition at DD's private. Still cheaper than our second choice public after finding out we'd pay as much for an apartment in WJ's catchment as we were paying for a SFH in the DCC.

But the people who live in Potomac do not want apartments in their neighborhoods.

Ah yes, let's add some super dense apartment projects and then build larger schools and programs for these subsidized people.

Are you dense? Many many educated, US citizens with two working parents are completely shut out of the SFH market areas like Potomac. Do you equate people with $150k HHI with those getting "subsidized?"

Aren't most higher-test-scoring Montgomery Schools at capacity? How do you parachute in a whole housing complex full of families?

To repeat:

1. The PP wants to send the PP's kid to Churchill -- a public school.
2. The PP cannot afford a single-family house in Potomac.
3. The PP could afford a small apartment in Potomac -- if there were such a thing, but there isn't, because people in Potomac do not want to live near people who can't afford a single-family house in Potomac, and so they stop apartments from being built.
4. Therefore, the PP cannot send the PP's kid to Churchill -- a public school.

Do you wnat to know why schools in MCPS are economically segregated? That's why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I agree with the need for mixed housing. Not everyone wants or needs to live in a huge house. I'd be happy with a small apartment that fed into Churchill. Instead I am down county and in a small apartment to close the gap between FA and tuition at DD's private. Still cheaper than our second choice public after finding out we'd pay as much for an apartment in WJ's catchment as we were paying for a SFH in the DCC.

But the people who live in Potomac do not want apartments in their neighborhoods.

Ah yes, let's add some super dense apartment projects and then build larger schools and programs for these subsidized people.

Are you dense? Many many educated, US citizens with two working parents are completely shut out of the SFH market areas like Potomac. Do you equate people with $150k HHI with those getting "subsidized?"

Aren't most higher-test-scoring Montgomery Schools at capacity? How do you parachute in a whole housing complex full of families?

To repeat:

1. The PP wants to send the PP's kid to Churchill -- a public school.
2. The PP cannot afford a single-family house in Potomac.
3. The PP could afford a small apartment in Potomac -- if there were such a thing, but there isn't, because people in Potomac do not want to live near people who can't afford a single-family house in Potomac, and so they stop apartments from being built.
4. Therefore, the PP cannot send the PP's kid to Churchill -- a public school.

Do you wnat to know why schools in MCPS are economically segregated? That's why.

Golly, every other school in this country and the world is so economically diverse, what on earth is wrong with MoCo??

Actually, PPP had a good point. Churchill is over capacity so cannot take in substantially more students.

As for the "to repeat" poster all over dcum today, maybe instead of whining here you put your talents to use in real estate development. Pitch your grand housing idea to some investors, apply for section 8 aid and whatever else you wish, buy some Potomac land, get your titling approved and build an apartment complex. Maybe along the way you'll learn about commercial real estate, supply & demand, as well as how Potomac developed from large family-owned farm plots. You might even meet some actual people who live in Potomac and like them, instead of attacking them on an anonymous board like dcum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Golly, every other school in this country and the world is so economically diverse, what on earth is wrong with MoCo??

Actually, PPP had a good point. Churchill is over capacity so cannot take in substantially more students.

As for the "to repeat" poster all over dcum today, maybe instead of whining here you put your talents to use in real estate development. Pitch your grand housing idea to some investors, apply for section 8 aid and whatever else you wish, buy some Potomac land, get your titling approved and build an apartment complex. Maybe along the way you'll learn about commercial real estate, supply & demand, as well as how Potomac developed from large family-owned farm plots. You might even meet some actual people who live in Potomac and like them, instead of attacking them on an anonymous board like dcum.

Churchill is BARELY over capacity.

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04602.pdf

As for commercial real estate -- you might ask real estate developers what happens when they propose apartment projects in Potomac. Supply and demand has nothing to do with it. Current Potomac residents not wanting apartment-dwellers in Potomac has a lot to do with it. Remember when the county was proposing affordable housing at the Brickyard site? That was going to be housing for Montgomery County teachers and firefighters. Potomac reacted as though gang members from South Central were going to move in.

And it's interesting that you assume that apartments = Section 8. I guess you haven't paid rent on an apartment in Montgomery County lately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:'they blend the classes together. Honors Science is a small section in each Science class. They get extra work, extra test questions but still have to sit in the class with the dumb disruptive kids. Sorry so harsh but in my child's middle school (JW) it does NOT work well."

I also have a kid at JW. In my child's experience almost every one is considered advanced and the teachers are sort of pressure to move kids up who don't start out that way. The degree of differentiation is teacher dependant. Not all middle schools are run this way. I agree it could be better..but your use of dumb and disuptive is inappropriate and offensive.

+1

Dumb is inappropriate and offensive; disruptive, as long as it is accurate, is neither because it is simply a fact regarding the behavior of the students and the impact that their behavior is having on the classroom environment.

Honestly, the amount of disruptive behavior and poorly behaved students that teachers are expected to tolerate within the classroom is one of my biggest concerns about public school and the major reason I seriously considered trying to make either private school or homeschooling work for my family. My extended family has several teachers, and one complaint I often hear from my relatives is how much one student or a small number of students can disrupt the classroom environment with bad behavior while the teachers are very limited in how they can respond.

I think a lot of the problems with the education system stem from the attitude, priorities, and discipline of the students -- and their parents, since they had to learn it somewhere. These things start in the home and there's only so much a school can do to provide a student with a good education if the student doesn't want to be at school and makes it obvious through her behavior, won't show respect for his own and others' right to learn and the teacher's right to teach, or won't make a genuine effort to prioritize school and take pride in his/her work.

No matter the socio-economic status, race, or home address of the students and their families I don't think we will see a real improvement in education until students actually see the relevance of what they're learning, care about doing their best, know that education matters, and are consistently taught, and expected to display, appropriate behavior at school. These things are the primary responsibility of parents and guardians, and while schools absolutely should do their part to support all kids in getting the best possible education I think this thread focuses far too much on blaming the schools and too little on the question of parental responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Achievement Gap can not be closed. There are too many factors that do not have to do with education and school that come into play that create the Achievement Gap.

Schools in our area waste inordinate resources trying to achieve something that can no be achieved at any dollar amount.

+1000

The home life of these children is a huge factor in why they are underachievers. Some of their parents work three jobs in order to support the family, and between that and the language gap, many of the children have no one at home to help them with homework or to support them and help them to do well. The teachers and the schools can only do so much!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Get liberals out and have conservatives run the schools with the right to kick out kids who don't want or try to learn.

Put those kids in vocational school or boarding school.

Watch the results increase . The problem is liberalism ... Expensive and lousy results every time.

I'm a liberal and I agree.

We are so elitist to think that anyone in a trade is a dumb ass. I will never make as much as my father, yet I'm college educated THREE TIMES!

School isn't for everyone, and there will always be an underclass. I think each kid needs a chance, but after seeing some fool in grade 9 get kicked up to grade 10 for barely passing and reading at a 6th grade level, he either needs intense remediation (which the county will not do) or he needs another outlet.

In the majority of cases, he'll drop out or end up in jail. And if the system DOES catch him in an alternative setting, graduation rates there are abysmal there. Yes, there are successful alternative settings, but Mo Co doesn't have one in the stellar category!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get liberals out and have conservatives run the schools with the right to kick out kids who don't want or try to learn.

Put those kids in vocational school or boarding school.

Watch the results increase . The problem is liberalism ... Expensive and lousy results every time.

I'm a liberal and I agree.

We are so elitist to think that anyone in a trade is a dumb ass. I will never make as much as my father, yet I'm college educated THREE TIMES!

School isn't for everyone, and there will always be an underclass. I think each kid needs a chance, but after seeing some fool in grade 9 get kicked up to grade 10 for barely passing and reading at a 6th grade level, he either needs intense remediation (which the county will not do) or he needs another outlet.

In the majority of cases, he'll drop out or end up in jail. And if the system DOES catch him in an alternative setting, graduation rates there are abysmal there. Yes, there are successful alternative settings, but Mo Co doesn't have one in the stellar category!

Wow
And you get to decide who these kids are ?
Who decides what kids get sent to vocational school ???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Achievement Gap can not be closed. There are too many factors that do not have to do with education and school that come into play that create the Achievement Gap.

Schools in our area waste inordinate resources trying to achieve something that can no be achieved at any dollar amount.

+1000

The home life of these children is a huge factor in why they are underachievers. Some of their parents work three jobs in order to support the family, and between that and the language gap, many of the children have no one at home to help them with homework or to support them and help them to do well. The teachers and the schools can only do so much!

You are right on the money. And, I mean the money that is being thrown at a problem that can't be solved by schools. Go to some of these schools and meet the administrators with their low level expectations and you know they contribute to the problem too. Then there are name callers who troll these lists attacking anyone who has something subtantive to say.

The achievement gap will always exist as long as there are irresponsible parents who don't care for or value education. Let it be. Meanwhile, just teach the kids who want to learn. If Silver Spring parents want to keep everything is okay in their schools, leave them to their schools and move away to an area where you can advocate for a good education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Achievement Gap can not be closed. There are too many factors that do not have to do with education and school that come into play that create the Achievement Gap.

Schools in our area waste inordinate resources trying to achieve something that can no be achieved at any dollar amount.

+1000

The home life of these children is a huge factor in why they are underachievers. Some of their parents work three jobs in order to support the family, and between that and the language gap, many of the children have no one at home to help them with homework or to support them and help them to do well. The teachers and the schools can only do so much!

You are right on the money. And, I mean the money that is being thrown at a problem that can't be solved by schools. Go to some of these schools and meet the administrators with their low level expectations and you know they contribute to the problem too. Then there are name callers who troll these lists attacking anyone who has something subtantive to say.

The achievement gap will always exist as long as there are irresponsible parents who don't care for or value education. Let it be. Meanwhile, just teach the kids who want to learn. If Silver Spring parents want to keep everything is okay in their schools, leave them to their schools and move away to an area where you can advocate for a good education.

Agree. Teachers, taxpayers and well-behaved children cannot substitute for responsible parenting and cohesive families.
But please please teach to every stratum in a school, that way since we don't go to Churchill my kid will be OK and not fall behind the Churchill kids nor be bored in class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get liberals out and have conservatives run the schools with the right to kick out kids who don't want or try to learn.

Put those kids in vocational school or boarding school.

Watch the results increase . The problem is liberalism ... Expensive and lousy results every time.

I'm a liberal and I agree.

We are so elitist to think that anyone in a trade is a dumb ass. I will never make as much as my father, yet I'm college educated THREE TIMES!

School isn't for everyone, and there will always be an underclass. I think each kid needs a chance, but after seeing some fool in grade 9 get kicked up to grade 10 for barely passing and reading at a 6th grade level, he either needs intense remediation (which the county will not do) or he needs another outlet.

In the majority of cases, he'll drop out or end up in jail. And if the system DOES catch him in an alternative setting, graduation rates there are abysmal there. Yes, there are successful alternative settings, but Mo Co doesn't have one in the stellar category!

Wow
And you get to decide who these kids are ?
Who decides what kids get sent to vocational school ???

You mean like in Germany when 12 year olds take a test which sets them in a vocational or educational track for the rest of their state funded schooling?
Or the big high school test given in turkey, Greece, etc to dictate what career you get or is in demand?
Or maybe you'd like Manhattan's style where your kid must TEST IN to the best public schools. Lo and behold Stuy and Bronx science are vast majority Asian American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Achievement Gap can not be closed. There are too many factors that do not have to do with education and school that come into play that create the Achievement Gap.

Schools in our area waste inordinate resources trying to achieve something that can no be achieved at any dollar amount.

+1000

The home life of these children is a huge factor in why they are underachievers. Some of their parents work three jobs in order to support the family, and between that and the language gap, many of the children have no one at home to help them with homework or to support them and help them to do well. The teachers and the schools can only do so much!

what do you mean parents have to help them with homework? In high school? Really? I went to high school in Europe and my parents never helped me.In high school level they wouldn't have known how to do my homework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get liberals out and have conservatives run the schools with the right to kick out kids who don't want or try to learn.

Put those kids in vocational school or boarding school.

Watch the results increase . The problem is liberalism ... Expensive and lousy results every time.

I'm a liberal and I agree.

We are so elitist to think that anyone in a trade is a dumb ass. I will never make as much as my father, yet I'm college educated THREE TIMES!

School isn't for everyone, and there will always be an underclass. I think each kid needs a chance, but after seeing some fool in grade 9 get kicked up to grade 10 for barely passing and reading at a 6th grade level, he either needs intense remediation (which the county will not do) or he needs another outlet.

In the majority of cases, he'll drop out or end up in jail. And if the system DOES catch him in an alternative setting, graduation rates there are abysmal there. Yes, there are successful alternative settings, but Mo Co doesn't have one in the stellar category!

Wow
And you get to decide who these kids are ?
Who decides what kids get sent to vocational school ???

You mean like in Germany when 12 year olds take a test which sets them in a vocational or educational track for the rest of their state funded schooling?
Or the big high school test given in turkey, Greece, etc to dictate what career you get or is in demand?
Or maybe you'd like Manhattan's style where your kid must TEST IN to the best public schools. Lo and behold Stuy and Bronx science are vast majority Asian American.

While I am not the original poster I can't resist answering this dumb, inflamatory question. There are kids in these schools who are not prepared to learn. They are disruptive, disengaged and make teaching hell. Give them an alternative that will engage them. Stop wasting our tax money trying to educate those who don't want it. The world doesn't need lawyers only, it needs plumbers, taxi drivers, and so on. Why do you want to spend dollars, discourage teachers, and make students who want to learn unhappy by making someone who'd rather be a plumber learn Advanced History 10?

Give them the opportunity, if they don't want it, let them try something else.

[Anonymous]

While I am not the original poster I can't resist answering this dumb, inflamatory question. There are kids in these schools who are not prepared to learn. They are disruptive, disengaged and make teaching hell. Give them an alternative that will engage them. Stop wasting our tax money trying to educate those who don't want it. The world doesn't need lawyers only, it needs plumbers, taxi drivers, and so on. Why do you want to spend dollars, discourage teachers, and make students who want to learn unhappy by making someone who'd rather be a plumber learn Advanced History 10?

.

MCPS teacher here. The problem is that the disruptive kids don't want to be lawyers. I teach in a W feeder school. The disruptive kids want to be lawyers. Or at least they act that way because they argue with teachers over everything like seat changes or whether an essay can be emailed before midnight rather than turned in during class.

I used to teach downcounty. The kids who wanted to be plumbers or electricians or beauticians were not disruptive. Disengaged? Yes, sometimes. But mostly, they were biding time until they could go to Edison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get liberals out and have conservatives run the schools with the right to kick out kids who don't want or try to learn.

Put those kids in vocational school or boarding school.

Watch the results increase . The problem is liberalism ... Expensive and lousy results every time.

I'm a liberal and I agree.

We are so elitist to think that anyone in a trade is a dumb ass. I will never make as much as my father, yet I'm college educated THREE TIMES!

School isn't for everyone, and there will always be an underclass. I think each kid needs a chance, but after seeing some fool in grade 9 get kicked up to grade 10 for barely passing and reading at a 6th grade level, he either needs intense remediation (which the county will not do) or he needs another outlet.

In the majority of cases, he'll drop out or end up in jail. And if the system DOES catch him in an alternative setting, graduation rates there are abysmal there. Yes, there are successful alternative settings, but Mo Co doesn't have one in the stellar category!

Wow
And you get to decide who these kids are ?
Who decides what kids get sent to vocational school ???

You mean like in Germany when 12 year olds take a test which sets them in a vocational or educational track for the rest of their state funded schooling?
Or the big high school test given in turkey, Greece, etc to dictate what career you get or is in demand?
Or maybe you'd like Manhattan's style where your kid must TEST IN to the best public schools. Lo and behold Stuy and Bronx science are vast majority Asian American.

While I am not the original poster I can't resist answering this dumb, inflamatory question. There are kids in these schools who are not prepared to learn. They are disruptive, disengaged and make teaching hell. Give them an alternative that will engage them. Stop wasting our tax money trying to educate those who don't want it. The world doesn't need lawyers only, it needs plumbers, taxi drivers, and so on. Why do you want to spend dollars, discourage teachers, and make students who want to learn unhappy by making someone who'd rather be a plumber learn Advanced History 10?

Give them the opportunity, if they don't want it, let them try something else.

I have to agree with this. Both DH and I graduated from MCPS. By the end of 9th it was obvious the college was not his path to success. His guidance counselor recommended him for the Edison program. He went onto learn to be a carpenter. He is a much more successful construction person than he would be at anything that would have required a college degree.