IEP for a gifted child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How come the people who are clamoring for IEPs for the gifted are dumb as rocks?

I think at least one poster here (and probably more than one) actually does have a G&T kid with a disability. And, they aren't as dumb as the asshole posters here who don't know what G&T is, who don't even know what the DCPS budget figures are.

DCPS has way more than enough money to put together a decent G&T program, if they weren't mismanaging it - they have more money per student than just about any school district in the nation. But it seems the system is full of slugs who resist any kind of change and who throw any and every lame, bogus, harebrained and dumb excuse in the way of progress that they can come up with.

It's no wonder DCPS is losing the battle, with attitudes like yours.

if you want anything close and to be in a school, go to BASIS. My child is in 7th grade and one of four (8 altogether) in 7th taking pre-calculus. They are so small and flexible right now they might move your child up as much as possible. My child has a genius IQ, and while much at BASIS bores the heck out of the child, being with at least two other kids who are gifted (one of whom has Aspergers or something or other) has been a breath of fresh air. My brother has a genius IQ, and spent his years at St. Alban's bored to tears. Finally, in 7th grade, he discovered chess and my mom took him all over the country for tournaments against middle aged men.

Harvard, OTOH, was a great experience for him because every professor recognized his potential immediately and wanted him for their own. Just to say, private schools also stink for truly gifted students, and they are tormented by the jocks etc. At BASIS there are no jocks, the ONLY recognition institutionalized is for grades. STA used to have "the book" for one kid in each form who got the highest GPA. Did not save my brother from being tormented by the jocks, and meant absolutely nothing to him after a while. What meant the most was a 6th grade teacher voluntarily staying after school to teach him logic. But you cannot count on those kinds of miracles happening, anywhere.

I would be completely incapable of homeschooling my child. BASIS is the best alternative, and had it not miraculously appeared last year we would be at our wits end, honestly. It does not do what my alma mater did, a private school here, which put young kids in the most advanced classes they had and then just sent them off to college early, which was not successful in all cases. But at BASIS you can be done by 11th grade, having done a ton of AP classes, including differential equations (whatever they are), and go intern somewhere where hopefully the adults will recognise your potential and like at Harvard, want to convince you to go into their field, so extra attention is a given while going to college young is not recommended. And whatever organization you are at, choose carefully, because they might be willing to pay your way through college. A company did that for my husband, who may also be a genius.

I know I am not, and because of my brother, I have known that for a long time. But I was bound and determined to marry someone smart, and at least two of our kids would be at least 140+. Our oldest at BASIS got tested (long irrelevant story) by the ES and when I walked into the meeting the first thing I said was I do not want to know the IQ score. In the end they are just numbers, but these kids have tremendous potential and you do not want to see them crushed or discouraged before they begin to cure cancer, or whatever their calling is. THAT is important.

Private school is overrated. I would recommend BASIS DC over anything except home schooling, if you are capable of it. The teachers are always willing to push farther and deeper than is required by the course during office hours, and they really appreciate kids who have a genuine interest and intellectual curiosity. Again, being smart is cool at BASIS DC. I doubt that is really true anywhere else, because it is the only way to be cool there. When I introduced myself at the school in the bathroom as so and so's mother, that was the first comment "wow, s/he is so smart." I already knew this, but the admiration in their voices really warmed my heart and reassured me that finally we had found the right place for the oldest two of our kids. The value of others valuing you for who you really are, at a school that recognises the innate value of your intelligence plus your willingness to do a lot of shitwork, that in every awards ceremony after every grading period (parents are welcome and do attend) recognise you and publicly acknowledge that in front of your peers and their parents, is worth a lot.

Yes, these kids will find their own road map, my brother found chess and philosophy on his own, but if you want them in school, BASIS DC is the only way I know of to go. CTY is kind of a waste, although my brother did make some friends in the DC area to play chess with. I would also recommend heavy use of the library, and www.savegreatcourses.com, where until Feb 27th every single one is on deep discount.

Finally, be really careful of what your kid is doing on the internet. It may be dangerous, it may be illegal, but the point is these kids are lonely and vulnerable in a way no one can really recognise. What happens when you realize you are smarter than your parents? It all depends on how they handle it. They still have life experience you do not and wisdom gained therefrom that you could learn from. But I hear you and you are not alone. Fortunately I have my brother, who has given my second child a book on chess endgames that he recently used to defeat his instructor, and whose articles and exchanges my oldest can read via my facebook page. He understands what they are going through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many parents of gifted children do figure out early on that DCPS is unwilling to meet their needs, and they pull out. But that's typically only those who have the means to do so, and it that leaves behind many other families, where the giftedness of their child may go unidentified, or if identified, goes unmet by the system. That's the case for many lower-SES families with gifted children. They are the ones getting the short end of the stick, getting left behind.

Why would the rule of "Free and Appropriate Public Education" (FAPE) only apply to special needs? Why is it that ALL children can't get free and appropriate public education?

Are you for real?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue isn't so much whether a kid is "truly gifted" but the fact that if your kid is just a little bit above average that probably puts them in the top 5% at most schools. When you have kids entering middle schools (NOT DEAL, Basis or Latin) that are still reading at a 2nd grade level because DCPS can't hold anyone back...then yeah, your kid who is above average sure does look "gifted" and will be bored in class at least when they aren't expected to be tuturing their classmates. This is where DC is failing miserably and then continues to act so surprised that pretty much every parent who demands more for their kid jumps ship in 4th grade to try and get into Latin, Basis, Deal, private or move.

Come on now, is there something in the water in DC that produces all these GIFTED children, of course not. They seem Gifted because the standards at DCPS are so low and in some schools the literacy level is extremely low. In reality, we have no more G&T children than any other state, and no states can use an IEP purely because a child is G&T.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^so sue DCPS, genius. First you have to figure out under what law you'll bring the suit... Here's a hint, not IDEA.

Why is this continuously about IDEA? The point of the OP wasn't that IDEA was the panacea -- it was that we should be looking at G&T kids as being needy, in a sense similar to how IDEA students are needy. Not necessarily to the same degree -- G&T kids aren't being taught to care for basic human needs like feeding and dressing. The argument is that all kids deserve an education provided by DCPS, not just the majority.

IDEA was a concept that was thrown out as a means to an end. Maybe it isn't the best one. So, what is the real issue? It looks like the issue is that a lot of people see "G&T" as already being privileged, and undeserving of additional service. Others see them as having unmet needs. So, which is it? Once we know where we stand, it's easier to make a call.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How come the people who are clamoring for IEPs for the gifted are dumb as rocks?

Because you don't understand their perspective. You hear the words, but not the intent. You see the attack, but misinterpret the objective.

You are at risk of making yourself just as much the stone as the one you throw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I think at least one poster here (and probably more than one) actually does have a G&T kid with a disability. And, they aren't as dumb as the asshole posters here who don't know what G&T is, who don't even know what the DCPS budget figures are.

DCPS has way more than enough money to put together a decent G&T program, if they weren't mismanaging it - they have more money per student than just about any school district in the nation.

I am completely with this (portion of the) comment. The money is there, but horridly misused. Small schools around the country do far better with a fraction of the resources.

We're messed up, folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
if you want anything close and to be in a school, go to BASIS. My child is in 7th grade and one of four (8 altogether) in 7th taking pre-calculus. They are so small and flexible right now they might move your child up as much as possible. My child has a genius IQ, and while much at BASIS bores the heck out of the child, being with at least two other kids who are gifted (one of whom has Aspergers or something or other) has been a breath of fresh air. My brother has a genius IQ, and spent his years at St. Alban's bored to tears. Finally, in 7th grade, he discovered chess and my mom took him all over the country for tournaments against middle aged men.

Harvard, OTOH, was a great experience for him because every professor recognized his potential immediately and wanted him for their own. Just to say, private schools also stink for truly gifted students, and they are tormented by the jocks etc. At BASIS there are no jocks, the ONLY recognition institutionalized is for grades. STA used to have "the book" for one kid in each form who got the highest GPA. Did not save my brother from being tormented by the jocks, and meant absolutely nothing to him after a while. What meant the most was a 6th grade teacher voluntarily staying after school to teach him logic. But you cannot count on those kinds of miracles happening, anywhere.

I would be completely incapable of homeschooling my child. BASIS is the best alternative, and had it not miraculously appeared last year we would be at our wits end, honestly. It does not do what my alma mater did, a private school here, which put young kids in the most advanced classes they had and then just sent them off to college early, which was not successful in all cases. But at BASIS you can be done by 11th grade, having done a ton of AP classes, including differential equations (whatever they are), and go intern somewhere where hopefully the adults will recognise your potential and like at Harvard, want to convince you to go into their field, so extra attention is a given while going to college young is not recommended. And whatever organization you are at, choose carefully, because they might be willing to pay your way through college. A company did that for my husband, who may also be a genius.

I know I am not, and because of my brother, I have known that for a long time. But I was bound and determined to marry someone smart, and at least two of our kids would be at least 140+. Our oldest at BASIS got tested (long irrelevant story) by the ES and when I walked into the meeting the first thing I said was I do not want to know the IQ score. In the end they are just numbers, but these kids have tremendous potential and you do not want to see them crushed or discouraged before they begin to cure cancer, or whatever their calling is. THAT is important.

Private school is overrated. I would recommend BASIS DC over anything except home schooling, if you are capable of it. The teachers are always willing to push farther and deeper than is required by the course during office hours, and they really appreciate kids who have a genuine interest and intellectual curiosity. Again, being smart is cool at BASIS DC. I doubt that is really true anywhere else, because it is the only way to be cool there. When I introduced myself at the school in the bathroom as so and so's mother, that was the first comment "wow, s/he is so smart." I already knew this, but the admiration in their voices really warmed my heart and reassured me that finally we had found the right place for the oldest two of our kids. The value of others valuing you for who you really are, at a school that recognises the innate value of your intelligence plus your willingness to do a lot of shitwork, that in every awards ceremony after every grading period (parents are welcome and do attend) recognise you and publicly acknowledge that in front of your peers and their parents, is worth a lot.

Yes, these kids will find their own road map, my brother found chess and philosophy on his own, but if you want them in school, BASIS DC is the only way I know of to go. CTY is kind of a waste, although my brother did make some friends in the DC area to play chess with. I would also recommend heavy use of the library, and www.savegreatcourses.com, where until Feb 27th every single one is on deep discount.

Finally, be really careful of what your kid is doing on the internet. It may be dangerous, it may be illegal, but the point is these kids are lonely and vulnerable in a way no one can really recognise. What happens when you realize you are smarter than your parents? It all depends on how they handle it. They still have life experience you do not and wisdom gained therefrom that you could learn from. But I hear you and you are not alone. Fortunately I have my brother, who has given my second child a book on chess endgames that he recently used to defeat his instructor, and whose articles and exchanges my oldest can read via my facebook page. He understands what they are going through.

Ok, before this gets jumped on, other than all the "genius"-type comments, DS11 has had a similar experience. It really has been the only viable alternative.

CTY is not bad -- it is just limited. For DS7, we've had to homeschool with a combination of MCT Language Arts, "ordinary" school textbooks, and some college textbooks. He is all over the place in his curriculum -- never behind, but way ahead in certain subjects. DS11 is bored in a couple of classes, but exuberant about others. It balances out as well as any other option. It works. DS7 has to wait a couple of years to get in. We're taking steps to try to keep him from getting too far ahead, since BASIS cannot differentiate beyond their course sequences (i.e., we teach at greater depth, or subjects not covered in a traditional environment, instead of greater speed through standard curriculum).

[Anonymous]

I don't think anyone is arguing that being academically advanced is a disability (Unless you really do have that kid that is top 1% at age 6 or something). But more that public schools are supposed to meet the needs of ALL kids and if they are not meeting the needs of the academically advanced then they are failing and is that legal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^so sue DCPS, genius. First you have to figure out under what law you'll bring the suit... Here's a hint, not IDEA.

Why is this continuously about IDEA? The point of the OP wasn't that IDEA was the panacea -- it was that we should be looking at G&T kids as being needy, in a sense similar to how IDEA students are needy. Not necessarily to the same degree -- G&T kids aren't being taught to care for basic human needs like feeding and dressing. The argument is that all kids deserve an education provided by DCPS, not just the majority.

IDEA was a concept that was thrown out as a means to an end. Maybe it isn't the best one. So, what is the real issue? It looks like the issue is that a lot of people see "G&T" as already being privileged, and undeserving of additional service. Others see them as having unmet needs. So, which is it? Once we know where we stand, it's easier to make a call.

Look at the title of this thread, "IEP for a gifted child?" Individual Education Plan (IEP) comes out of IDEA (Individuals with DISABILITIES Education Act), unless you have a disability that falls into one of the categories posted in #2 of the start of this thread, IDEA does not apply to you. Again, children without disabilities cannot have an IEP in public school. Got it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White men most certainly can sue if they're discriminated against on the basis of their race or sex.

ut

People can sue for anything... But anti discrimination laws don't apply to them.

Yes they do. A white man at a majority minority company or with a minority boss can sue for racial discrimination. A white man with a female boss can sue for sex discrimination. Most white men over 40 sue for age discrimination. But these laws apply across the board. IDEA does not and should not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^so sue DCPS, genius. First you have to figure out under what law you'll bring the suit... Here's a hint, not IDEA.

Why is this continuously about IDEA? The point of the OP wasn't that IDEA was the panacea -- it was that we should be looking at G&T kids as being needy, in a sense similar to how IDEA students are needy. Not necessarily to the same degree -- G&T kids aren't being taught to care for basic human needs like feeding and dressing. The argument is that all kids deserve an education provided by DCPS, not just the majority.

IDEA was a concept that was thrown out as a means to an end. Maybe it isn't the best one. So, what is the real issue? It looks like the issue is that a lot of people see "G&T" as already being privileged, and undeserving of additional service. Others see them as having unmet needs. So, which is it? Once we know where we stand, it's easier to make a call.

IDEA was used for Special Needs kids to get around the fact that DCPS was an under performing school system that served no one and served SN kids the worst of all. But there is no equivalent law for kids without disabilities. FAPE, IEPs, and IDEA does not apply to non disabled kids. If you want a G&T program in DC, you can:
1. pass a law similar to IDEA for non-disabled kids.
2. get high IQs recognized as a disability (I'm laughing just typing that)
3. find a solution through political action

Also, if your G&T kid is having problems with "basic human needs like feeding and dressing", it's probably a good idea to get him or her evaluated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents of gifted children do figure out early on that DCPS is unwilling to meet their needs, and they pull out. But that's typically only those who have the means to do so, and it that leaves behind many other families, where the giftedness of their child may go unidentified, or if identified, goes unmet by the system. That's the case for many lower-SES families with gifted children. They are the ones getting the short end of the stick, getting left behind.

Why would the rule of "Free and Appropriate Public Education" (FAPE) only apply to special needs? Why is it that ALL children can't get free and appropriate public education?

Are you for real?

Are YOU for real? You are disagreeing with the idea that we as a society should be providing a free and appropriate public education for our children. Educating our children properly is one of the most important investments we could ever make for our future. This is our next generation of doctors, scientists, engineers, et cetera. The societal ROI on providing a good education is absolutely phenomenal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^so sue DCPS, genius. First you have to figure out under what law you'll bring the suit... Here's a hint, not IDEA.

Why is this continuously about IDEA? The point of the OP wasn't that IDEA was the panacea -- it was that we should be looking at G&T kids as being needy, in a sense similar to how IDEA students are needy. Not necessarily to the same degree -- G&T kids aren't being taught to care for basic human needs like feeding and dressing. The argument is that all kids deserve an education provided by DCPS, not just the majority.

IDEA was a concept that was thrown out as a means to an end. Maybe it isn't the best one. So, what is the real issue? It looks like the issue is that a lot of people see "G&T" as already being privileged, and undeserving of additional service. Others see them as having unmet needs. So, which is it? Once we know where we stand, it's easier to make a call.

IDEA was used for Special Needs kids to get around the fact that DCPS was an under performing school system that served no one and served SN kids the worst of all. But there is no equivalent law for kids without disabilities. FAPE, IEPs, and IDEA does not apply to non disabled kids. If you want a G&T program in DC, you can:
1. pass a law similar to IDEA for non-disabled kids.
2. get high IQs recognized as a disability (I'm laughing just typing that)
3. find a solution through political action

Also, if your G&T kid is having problems with "basic human needs like feeding and dressing", it's probably a good idea to get him or her evaluated.

Um, it said G&T kids do NOT need such things, but instead have other needs. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just mentioning that you didn't read it very well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^so sue DCPS, genius. First you have to figure out under what law you'll bring the suit... Here's a hint, not IDEA.

Why is this continuously about IDEA? The point of the OP wasn't that IDEA was the panacea -- it was that we should be looking at G&T kids as being needy, in a sense similar to how IDEA students are needy. Not necessarily to the same degree -- G&T kids aren't being taught to care for basic human needs like feeding and dressing. The argument is that all kids deserve an education provided by DCPS, not just the majority.

IDEA was a concept that was thrown out as a means to an end. Maybe it isn't the best one. So, what is the real issue? It looks like the issue is that a lot of people see "G&T" as already being privileged, and undeserving of additional service. Others see them as having unmet needs. So, which is it? Once we know where we stand, it's easier to make a call.

IDEA was used for Special Needs kids to get around the fact that DCPS was an under performing school system that served no one and served SN kids the worst of all. But there is no equivalent law for kids without disabilities. FAPE, IEPs, and IDEA does not apply to non disabled kids. If you want a G&T program in DC, you can:
1. pass a law similar to IDEA for non-disabled kids.
2. get high IQs recognized as a disability (I'm laughing just typing that)
3. find a solution through political action

Also, if your G&T kid is having problems with "basic human needs like feeding and dressing", it's probably a good idea to get him or her evaluated.

Um, it said G&T kids do NOT need such things, but instead have other needs. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just mentioning that you didn't read it very well.

+1. My point (it was my post) was that these kids are clearly NOT disabled. I was asking, are these kids "special needs?" People confuse the two, and I think sometimes deliberately. It really obfuscates the issue, which is that there is a group of children who will never be taught by DCPS, because they are considered "excessively privileged" already. Many of these kids' families cannot afford to take the measures necessary to care for their educational needs, so the kids just ride along on their own. Some succeed, some don't.

Their numbers are very small, so they have no real political clout. They have no "disability" status, so they have no real legal clout. While IDEA itself may be the wrong choice of programs, there is no sound reason to go about shooting down proposals because they were slightly misdirected. Instead, it makes a whole lot more sense to understand what we can, so that we can redirect those proposals more productively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^so sue DCPS, genius. First you have to figure out under what law you'll bring the suit... Here's a hint, not IDEA.

Why is this continuously about IDEA? The point of the OP wasn't that IDEA was the panacea -- it was that we should be looking at G&T kids as being needy, in a sense similar to how IDEA students are needy. Not necessarily to the same degree -- G&T kids aren't being taught to care for basic human needs like feeding and dressing. The argument is that all kids deserve an education provided by DCPS, not just the majority.

IDEA was a concept that was thrown out as a means to an end. Maybe it isn't the best one. So, what is the real issue? It looks like the issue is that a lot of people see "G&T" as already being privileged, and undeserving of additional service. Others see them as having unmet needs. So, which is it? Once we know where we stand, it's easier to make a call.

IDEA was used for Special Needs kids to get around the fact that DCPS was an under performing school system that served no one and served SN kids the worst of all. But there is no equivalent law for kids without disabilities. FAPE, IEPs, and IDEA does not apply to non disabled kids. If you want a G&T program in DC, you can:
1. pass a law similar to IDEA for non-disabled kids.
2. get high IQs recognized as a disability (I'm laughing just typing that)
3. find a solution through political action

Also, if your G&T kid is having problems with "basic human needs like feeding and dressing", it's probably a good idea to get him or her evaluated.

Um, it said G&T kids do NOT need such things, but instead have other needs. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just mentioning that you didn't read it very well.

+1. My point (it was my post) was that these kids are clearly NOT disabled. I was asking, are these kids "special needs?" People confuse the two, and I think sometimes deliberately. It really obfuscates the issue, which is that there is a group of children who will never be taught by DCPS, because they are considered "excessively privileged" already. Many of these kids' families cannot afford to take the measures necessary to care for their educational needs, so the kids just ride along on their own. Some succeed, some don't.

Their numbers are very small, so they have no real political clout. They have no "disability" status, so they have no real legal clout. While IDEA itself may be the wrong choice of programs, there is no sound reason to go about shooting down proposals because they were slightly misdirected. Instead, it makes a whole lot more sense to understand what we can, so that we can redirect those proposals more productively.

The reason everyone is shooting down your proposal is because using IDEA won't work for your purpose... so you can go about redirecting your energies into channels that will work instead of wasting your time.