IEP for a gifted child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White men most certainly can sue if they're discriminated against on the basis of their race or sex.

People can sue for anything... But anti discrimination laws don't apply to them.

So some scumbag attorney gets to sit there in court and lie and pretend discrimination isn't discrimination when it clearly is. Let me guess, you are one such scumbag attorney.

Nope, I'm a parent with a child with a disability (and gifted) who knows what laws apply to my child and why.

Well then I hope you aren't expecting any support for your child's giftedness because apparent that's beyond the "floor" in the law as posters here seem to want to insist is the only need that be met. If they don't think meeting G&T needs is "appropriate" for anyone else, what makes you think they will feel it is appropriate for your disabled child?

Or, if you feel your disabled child's G&T needs definitely should be met, then how does it make then sense why a non-disabled's child's G&T needs would NOT be met?

We've been very happy with the academics and supports and services for my disabled and gifted child at our charter. No complaints. If we felt the school was not meeting his needs, we'll change schools.

Oh, charter. Well, that's entirely different, charters are far more likely to do more than "the floor". DCPS is where the problem lies.

Yes, charter but it's elementary school... He's doesn't need to learn calculus in Klingon

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's your point? Again, being "gifted" is not a disability classification under IDEA nor should it be. By arguing that "giftedness" should be, all you are doing is diluting the law and making IDEA appear ridiculous.

Again, I never made that argument. So, what's the bitterness about?

No bitterness. What's the point about the link about giftedness? Nothing in the link says having a high IQ is a disability and that kids with high IQs have trouble "accessing the curriculum" or that they need protection from discrimination which is the whole point of IDEA and IEPs.

Well, it was a very flawed assumption on my part that there was a place for a discussion about the middle ground. In DC, that clearly is not the case. No reason allowed here, I suppose -- you're either a bleeding heart liberal or bible thumping Neanderthal, I guess...

DCPS is either heaven or hell -- no reality may be injected into any discussion. It's a shame, really. I personally believe it helps to understand the bit of truth in each person's arguments. Then, it's easier to see a productive path forward.

Look, no one is persecuting you for wanting a rigorous G&T program in DC like every other large urban city. In fact, most parents on DCUM except a few outliers would love a real G&T program but realize it's DC's (racial) politics that is the primary reason that keeps it from happening.

However, using IDEA, a law designed to help children with disabilities, for what will primarily benefit white, high SES kids with high IQs is a little much.

Yes, a lot of it is in racial politics, driven by a status quo of historic majority AA that views anything that might be perceived to be encouraging toward high-SES whites and gentrification as inherently bad for the AA community.

The sad irony however is that many of those high-SES whites moving into the area have plenty of other options and will just go around the system and find their own solution (via privates, et cetera), so it's ultimately the low-SES AA families with G&T children who are getting hurt the most and whose needs are not being met by all of this deeply misguided thinking from those who mistakenly think they are trying to keep it fair for the low-SES AA families in DC. They are cutting their own noses off to spite their faces.

+1.

[Anonymous]

You know what a disability is, right? The OP makes me want to scream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's your point? Again, being "gifted" is not a disability classification under IDEA nor should it be. By arguing that "giftedness" should be, all you are doing is diluting the law and making IDEA appear ridiculous.

Again, I never made that argument. So, what's the bitterness about?

No bitterness. What's the point about the link about giftedness? Nothing in the link says having a high IQ is a disability and that kids with high IQs have trouble "accessing the curriculum" or that they need protection from discrimination which is the whole point of IDEA and IEPs.

Well, it was a very flawed assumption on my part that there was a place for a discussion about the middle ground. In DC, that clearly is not the case. No reason allowed here, I suppose -- you're either a bleeding heart liberal or bible thumping Neanderthal, I guess...

DCPS is either heaven or hell -- no reality may be injected into any discussion. It's a shame, really. I personally believe it helps to understand the bit of truth in each person's arguments. Then, it's easier to see a productive path forward.

Look, no one is persecuting you for wanting a rigorous G&T program in DC like every other large urban city. In fact, most parents on DCUM except a few outliers would love a real G&T program but realize it's DC's (racial) politics that is the primary reason that keeps it from happening.

However, using IDEA, a law designed to help children with disabilities, for what will primarily benefit white, high SES kids with high IQs is a little much.

Yes, a lot of it is in racial politics, driven by a status quo of historic majority AA that views anything that might be perceived to be encouraging toward high-SES whites and gentrification as inherently bad for the AA community.

The sad irony however is that many of those high-SES whites moving into the area have plenty of other options and will just go around the system and find their own solution (via privates, et cetera), so it's ultimately the low-SES AA families with G&T children who are getting hurt the most and whose needs are not being met by all of this deeply misguided thinking from those who mistakenly think they are trying to keep it fair for the low-SES AA families in DC. They are cutting their own noses off to spite their faces.

Using IDEA to get around racial politics hurts those whom the law was originally intended to protect; in this case, kids with disabilities by diverting money and resources from kids with disabilities to kids with high IQs. IEPs are $$$ for school systems and you want to give an IEP to every "gifted" kid in DC? You'll just be gutting IDEA for the benefit of mostly high SES kids.

So if you want a G&T program, find another way rather than standing on the backs of disabled kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's your point? Again, being "gifted" is not a disability classification under IDEA nor should it be. By arguing that "giftedness" should be, all you are doing is diluting the law and making IDEA appear ridiculous.

Again, I never made that argument. So, what's the bitterness about?

No bitterness. What's the point about the link about giftedness? Nothing in the link says having a high IQ is a disability and that kids with high IQs have trouble "accessing the curriculum" or that they need protection from discrimination which is the whole point of IDEA and IEPs.

Well, it was a very flawed assumption on my part that there was a place for a discussion about the middle ground. In DC, that clearly is not the case. No reason allowed here, I suppose -- you're either a bleeding heart liberal or bible thumping Neanderthal, I guess...

DCPS is either heaven or hell -- no reality may be injected into any discussion. It's a shame, really. I personally believe it helps to understand the bit of truth in each person's arguments. Then, it's easier to see a productive path forward.

Look, no one is persecuting you for wanting a rigorous G&T program in DC like every other large urban city. In fact, most parents on DCUM except a few outliers would love a real G&T program but realize it's DC's (racial) politics that is the primary reason that keeps it from happening.

However, using IDEA, a law designed to help children with disabilities, for what will primarily benefit white, high SES kids with high IQs is a little much.

Yes, a lot of it is in racial politics, driven by a status quo of historic majority AA that views anything that might be perceived to be encouraging toward high-SES whites and gentrification as inherently bad for the AA community.

The sad irony however is that many of those high-SES whites moving into the area have plenty of other options and will just go around the system and find their own solution (via privates, et cetera), so it's ultimately the low-SES AA families with G&T children who are getting hurt the most and whose needs are not being met by all of this deeply misguided thinking from those who mistakenly think they are trying to keep it fair for the low-SES AA families in DC. They are cutting their own noses off to spite their faces.

Using IDEA to get around racial politics hurts those whom the law was originally intended to protect; in this case, kids with disabilities by diverting money and resources from kids with disabilities to kids with high IQs. IEPs are $$$ for school systems and you want to give an IEP to every "gifted" kid in DC? You'll just be gutting IDEA for the benefit of mostly high SES kids.

So if you want a G&T program, find another way rather than standing on the backs of disabled kids.

Back up a second there. It's the basic fact that DCPS being lackluster with regard to G&T in the first place, which I suspect drove the OP's question about using IDEA to make an end-run around lousy DCPS policy and practice in that area. This whole discussion wouldn't even be happening in the first place if DCPS were on the ball.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's your point? Again, being "gifted" is not a disability classification under IDEA nor should it be. By arguing that "giftedness" should be, all you are doing is diluting the law and making IDEA appear ridiculous.

Again, I never made that argument. So, what's the bitterness about?

No bitterness. What's the point about the link about giftedness? Nothing in the link says having a high IQ is a disability and that kids with high IQs have trouble "accessing the curriculum" or that they need protection from discrimination which is the whole point of IDEA and IEPs.

Well, it was a very flawed assumption on my part that there was a place for a discussion about the middle ground. In DC, that clearly is not the case. No reason allowed here, I suppose -- you're either a bleeding heart liberal or bible thumping Neanderthal, I guess...

DCPS is either heaven or hell -- no reality may be injected into any discussion. It's a shame, really. I personally believe it helps to understand the bit of truth in each person's arguments. Then, it's easier to see a productive path forward.

Look, no one is persecuting you for wanting a rigorous G&T program in DC like every other large urban city. In fact, most parents on DCUM except a few outliers would love a real G&T program but realize it's DC's (racial) politics that is the primary reason that keeps it from happening.

However, using IDEA, a law designed to help children with disabilities, for what will primarily benefit white, high SES kids with high IQs is a little much.

Yes, a lot of it is in racial politics, driven by a status quo of historic majority AA that views anything that might be perceived to be encouraging toward high-SES whites and gentrification as inherently bad for the AA community.

The sad irony however is that many of those high-SES whites moving into the area have plenty of other options and will just go around the system and find their own solution (via privates, et cetera), so it's ultimately the low-SES AA families with G&T children who are getting hurt the most and whose needs are not being met by all of this deeply misguided thinking from those who mistakenly think they are trying to keep it fair for the low-SES AA families in DC. They are cutting their own noses off to spite their faces.

Using IDEA to get around racial politics hurts those whom the law was originally intended to protect; in this case, kids with disabilities by diverting money and resources from kids with disabilities to kids with high IQs. IEPs are $$$ for school systems and you want to give an IEP to every "gifted" kid in DC? You'll just be gutting IDEA for the benefit of mostly high SES kids.

So if you want a G&T program, find another way rather than standing on the backs of disabled kids.

Back up a second there. It's the basic fact that DCPS being lackluster with regard to G&T in the first place, which I suspect drove the OP's question about using IDEA to make an end-run around lousy DCPS policy and practice in that area. This whole discussion wouldn't even be happening in the first place if DCPS were on the ball.

Yeah and using a law that's for disabled kids as an end-run around poor DCPS policy is even dumber and invites ridicule. It won't work for one thing and OP probably isn't the first to come up with the same harebrained idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's your point? Again, being "gifted" is not a disability classification under IDEA nor should it be. By arguing that "giftedness" should be, all you are doing is diluting the law and making IDEA appear ridiculous.

Again, I never made that argument. So, what's the bitterness about?

No bitterness. What's the point about the link about giftedness? Nothing in the link says having a high IQ is a disability and that kids with high IQs have trouble "accessing the curriculum" or that they need protection from discrimination which is the whole point of IDEA and IEPs.

Well, it was a very flawed assumption on my part that there was a place for a discussion about the middle ground. In DC, that clearly is not the case. No reason allowed here, I suppose -- you're either a bleeding heart liberal or bible thumping Neanderthal, I guess...

DCPS is either heaven or hell -- no reality may be injected into any discussion. It's a shame, really. I personally believe it helps to understand the bit of truth in each person's arguments. Then, it's easier to see a productive path forward.

Look, no one is persecuting you for wanting a rigorous G&T program in DC like every other large urban city. In fact, most parents on DCUM except a few outliers would love a real G&T program but realize it's DC's (racial) politics that is the primary reason that keeps it from happening.

However, using IDEA, a law designed to help children with disabilities, for what will primarily benefit white, high SES kids with high IQs is a little much.

Yes, a lot of it is in racial politics, driven by a status quo of historic majority AA that views anything that might be perceived to be encouraging toward high-SES whites and gentrification as inherently bad for the AA community.

The sad irony however is that many of those high-SES whites moving into the area have plenty of other options and will just go around the system and find their own solution (via privates, et cetera), so it's ultimately the low-SES AA families with G&T children who are getting hurt the most and whose needs are not being met by all of this deeply misguided thinking from those who mistakenly think they are trying to keep it fair for the low-SES AA families in DC. They are cutting their own noses off to spite their faces.

Using IDEA to get around racial politics hurts those whom the law was originally intended to protect; in this case, kids with disabilities by diverting money and resources from kids with disabilities to kids with high IQs. IEPs are $$$ for school systems and you want to give an IEP to every "gifted" kid in DC? You'll just be gutting IDEA for the benefit of mostly high SES kids.

So if you want a G&T program, find another way rather than standing on the backs of disabled kids.

What amount of BS. Compare the budgets for special needs and for gifted programs in DC and then tell me who is diverting money from whom.

[Anonymous]

That's right, PP. It's absolute nonsense to suggest G&T drains money away from special needs.

Per the DC OCFO budget tables for DCPS, what is allocated for special needs as dedicated funds works out to well over $20,000 in additional funds being allocated for each special needs student each year above and beyond what is already allocated for that student's basic education.

Yet for G&T it only amounts to a couple hundred bucks per student.

[Anonymous]

^so sue DCPS, genius. First you have to figure out under what law you'll bring the suit... Here's a hint, not IDEA.

[Anonymous]

How come the people who are clamoring for IEPs for the gifted are dumb as rocks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How come the people who are clamoring for IEPs for the gifted are dumb as rocks?

I think at least one poster here (and probably more than one) actually does have a G&T kid with a disability. And, they aren't as dumb as the asshole posters here who don't know what G&T is, who don't even know what the DCPS budget figures are.

DCPS has way more than enough money to put together a decent G&T program, if they weren't mismanaging it - they have more money per student than just about any school district in the nation. But it seems the system is full of slugs who resist any kind of change and who throw any and every lame, bogus, harebrained and dumb excuse in the way of progress that they can come up with.

It's no wonder DCPS is losing the battle, with attitudes like yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How come the people who are clamoring for IEPs for the gifted are dumb as rocks?

I think at least one poster here (and probably more than one) actually does have a G&T kid with a disability. And, they aren't as dumb as the asshole posters here who don't know what G&T is, who don't even know what the DCPS budget figures are.

DCPS has way more than enough money to put together a decent G&T program, if they weren't mismanaging it - they have more money per student than just about any school district in the nation. But it seems the system is full of slugs who resist any kind of change and who throw any and every lame, bogus, harebrained and dumb excuse in the way of progress that they can come up with.

It's no wonder DCPS is losing the battle, with attitudes like yours.

Everyone here wants a G&T program. Some of us like me with an actual G&T kid with a disability think using IDEA to get a G&T program is a bad idea b/c it won't work. IDEA for the 1000x, does not recognize "giftedness" as a disability. Repeat this to yourself slowly:

A. High. IQ. Is. Not. A. Disability.

[Anonymous]

No, high IQ in and of itself is not a disability. But... quite often high IQ actually does come hand in hand with a disability. High IQ frequently manifests itself together with some form of autism spectrum disorder (typically like Aspergers), as seen with Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, Bill Gates and many other brilliant minds. They might be highly functioning in many areas but still struggle with many basic day-to-day things like being able to tie one's own shoes.

[Anonymous]

^ And while you and I might want a G&T program, it is NOT true that everyone else here wants a G&T program - you should read any one of the other threads on the topic here on DCUM where posters fight tooth and nail against any form of G&T for any reason whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, high IQ in and of itself is not a disability. But... quite often high IQ actually does come hand in hand with a disability. High IQ frequently manifests itself together with some form of autism spectrum disorder (typically like Aspergers), as seen with Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, Bill Gates and many other brilliant minds. They might be highly functioning in many areas but still struggle with many basic day-to-day things like being able to tie one's own shoes.

And you know this how? It is all speculative at this point and I say this as the mother of a kid with Asperger's. The fact is that we don't know and there are many many more brilliant people who were definitely NOT on the spectrum: Shakespeare, Leibniz, Galileo, Lincoln, etc.

Being brilliant does not entitle you to an IEP unless you have a diagnosed disability that is recognized under IDEA. My kid with the 155 IQ has an IEP under "Autism" not because of his high IQ.