Parents are pulling their children out of Basis FAST!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools like Latin do you have in mind? Boston Latin, Roxbury Latin, and Washington Latin would never use use social promotion in any form.

Washington Latin does promote socially.

Sorry, no.

Your evidence?

Now that's funny. This whole thread started with someone basically screaming FIRE! and running out of the room. Evidence, not one piece of evidence has been provided for anything posted on this thread.

My evidence: At Latin, kids who should have failed classes and been retained were repeatedly given extra credit assignments by which they raised their grades sufficiently to be promoted. Latin engages in social promotion.

Are you a teacher or adminstrator who saw the grades of these children and then saw that extra credit was given so that they passed? How are we to know you are actually telling the truth. Your statement is not evidence.

I'm a parent who watched DC do all that extra credit work. Any current or former Latin parent knows about the fluffy extra credit assignments. Even the Latin administration has recognized the grade inflation and decided to do something about it this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I just cannot believe there are all these gifted and talented children in Washington, DC. Come on now, really!!!!


National demographics and studies show typically 3.5%-6% of the student body test and qualify as being Gifted & Talented - by IQ, et cetera. With around 80,000 students enrolled in DC schools, that means there are probably around 4,000 G&T students from very SES and background scattered across DC schools - with NO G&T program in the public schools to serve them. Probably at least 2,500 of the 4,000 are AA, including low-SES - IQ is not a function of your skin color or your parent's income. DCPS schools does not and will not meet the needs of those 4,000. Many of them have been fortunate to make their way to schools like Basis and Latin - yet here we have people who not only deny the existence of these kids, they deny them any opportunity to do more, holding them back to sit bored out of their minds in a classroom, twiddling their thumbs, zoned out in daydream, even acting out and causing trouble because they are wasting a month learning a concept that only takes them a week. They not already deny them any adequate academic opportunity in the DCPS system, they also want to deny them the opportunity of attending a more challenging charter that's more their speed. Unbelievable and utterly naive and clueless.

Not exactly. The fact that there may or may not be 4% of the student body, nationally, that can perform on a test that allows districts to designate those kids as somehow "gifted" does not at all mean there are 4,000 kids in DC bored out of their minds and daydreaming all day. No, it means that maybe they can pass a test on a day that lets their parents advocate that they are somehow more deserving than the vast majority of kids who need support to access the existing curriculum.

In fact, there are very few truly gifted children and those that are gifted are not languishing in classrooms without an inadequate education. If the bar for special education students is that they be able to access the curriculum to meet FAPE, then the same bar should be in place for the talented test takers who test in an advanced category. In this city, it is foolish to divert resources to create "gifted" programs when there are so few truly gifted students and so little need for programs to serve them when they are doing just fine in the regular school system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In fact, there are very few truly gifted children and those that are gifted are not languishing in classrooms without an inadequate education. If the bar for special education students is that they be able to access the curriculum to meet FAPE, then the same bar should be in place for the talented test takers who test in an advanced category. In this city, it is foolish to divert resources to create "gifted" programs when there are so few truly gifted students and so little need for programs to serve them when they are doing just fine in the regular school system.

You live WotP, right?

What's foolish is this sort of myopia. What you're seeing are more and more "advanced learners" coming into DCPS and DC Charter due to shifting demographics and the cost of new mortgages and privates both going through the roof. Frankly, what you have are more and more of the children of some of the best educated professionals in the country sitting in the same classes as some of the least educated, families on welfare since the Great Society programs kicked n half a century ago, in an inner city setting.

I wouldn't call my kid "truly gifted" but with Stanford graduates as parents he's already so bored, and disruptive as a result, in K at a respected charter that we're forced to consider privates, the burbs or moving within DC (to Upper NW? to the Brent District? try language immersion?) so he can be IB for a majority high SES school. He's being taught skills he over learned a year ago all school day long and our complaints to the school get us nowhere because they're not set up to educate kids like him.

If only kids like mine were in fact "doing just fine" in the regular school system EotP. For the most part, they are not, explaining broad high SES attrition in the upper grades at Capitol Hill schools in particular. Look at a school like Watkins, which has been struggling to keep high SES parents past 2nd grade for 25 years now. Ask yourself why so many of the college-educated parents go well before Basis becomes an option. It's because their kids are thriving without programs for advanced learners or, heaven forbid, gifted kids? Wrong.

If Basis offered an elementary school program, we'd certainly consider it. Really hope they will eventually for the sake of my property values even if we can't stay in DC public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What you see in the upper grades at Latin is that the school struggled under previous leadership. Some of the high SES kids left (not really sure what color -- does it matter?). Latin doesn't admit after 9th. I see a lot of kids who are choosing to stay at Latin for HS, including kids who get into private and Walls. I see Latin offering a lot of support to students who struggle -- extra work during the elective period, after school help, and summer school. I think you will also see a lot of students staying at Latin just looking at their college placement. Latin got every single graduating senior into college from its first graduating class and in terms of scholarship money for their first graduating class more than Walls did on a per student basis (8 million versus 5.5 million; 109 graduating seniors versus 42).

I don't think you can make any assumptions about high SES attrition at Basis. With Wilson closed to OOB, where do the high SES kids go who don't want to do private and don't live in bounds for Wilson?

You certainly can make these assumptions with some degree of certainty because all the other good middle schools in the city experience high SES attrition between 8th and 9th grades. Deal-Wilson is a classic example - the high school is still only one-quarter white/high-SES in a catchment area that's at least two-thirds white/high-SES.

Latin parents love to claim that the attrition is behind them, but it's not. Yes, more and more high SES kids are staying for 9th, but they're still losing the majority. While graduating seniors are going to college, they aren't going to top schools, which doesn't work for many high SES families.

While high-performing low-SES AA kids can readily win scholarship money in the form of financial aid, high-SES parents who cannot easily afford $50,000+ colleges cannot. Affluent parents often don't want to pay full fare at the sort of colleges Latin graduates are being admitted to, and don't want state schools as their only option. Yes, I know they've only had one graduating class, but they're not exactly on track to become Stuyvesant, which gets at least two three dozen kids into each Ivy League school every year.

The high SES kids you describe often go to the burbs well before high school. Still.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I just cannot believe there are all these gifted and talented children in Washington, DC. Come on now, really!!!!


National demographics and studies show typically 3.5%-6% of the student body test and qualify as being Gifted & Talented - by IQ, et cetera. With around 80,000 students enrolled in DC schools, that means there are probably around 4,000 G&T students from very SES and background scattered across DC schools - with NO G&T program in the public schools to serve them. Probably at least 2,500 of the 4,000 are AA, including low-SES - IQ is not a function of your skin color or your parent's income. DCPS schools does not and will not meet the needs of those 4,000. Many of them have been fortunate to make their way to schools like Basis and Latin - yet here we have people who not only deny the existence of these kids, they deny them any opportunity to do more, holding them back to sit bored out of their minds in a classroom, twiddling their thumbs, zoned out in daydream, even acting out and causing trouble because they are wasting a month learning a concept that only takes them a week. They not already deny them any adequate academic opportunity in the DCPS system, they also want to deny them the opportunity of attending a more challenging charter that's more their speed. Unbelievable and utterly naive and clueless.

Not exactly. The fact that there may or may not be 4% of the student body, nationally, that can perform on a test that allows districts to designate those kids as somehow "gifted" does not at all mean there are 4,000 kids in DC bored out of their minds and daydreaming all day. No, it means that maybe they can pass a test on a day that lets their parents advocate that they are somehow more deserving than the vast majority of kids who need support to access the existing curriculum.

In fact, there are very few truly gifted children and those that are gifted are not languishing in classrooms without an inadequate education. If the bar for special education students is that they be able to access the curriculum to meet FAPE, then the same bar should be in place for the talented test takers who test in an advanced category. In this city, it is foolish to divert resources to create "gifted" programs when there are so few truly gifted students and so little need for programs to serve them when they are doing just fine in the regular school system.

Wow. Just, wow.

Evidently you think IQ tests are something that you can just study for and any Tiger Mom's kid can nail an IQ test with the right prep - and that it's all about parents who want their perfectly average child to get this label to have something extra and special. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way any more than a profoundly disabled kid with an IQ of 60 can just overcome his disability with committed Tiger Mom and a little prep. It's something kids are born with, it's not about overbearing parents being a squeaky wheel with their average kid because they are demanding something special and something extra for him.

Don't throw the thousands of kids who ARE bright and who ARE capable of accomplishing more with their education under the bus. That pool of G&T kids across the city no doubt includes for example hundreds of low-SES AA kids who are bright and capable - yet you would condemn them to a future of flipping burgers because they wouldn't even have adequate access to the right opportunities that could get them scholarships and prep for college.

God help us all if you in any way represent DCPS, WTU, Council or anyone in any position of making or influencing policy - because you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and are doing thousands of kids a complete disservice. That's not drama, that's reality.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't call my kid "truly gifted" but with Stanford graduates as parents he's already so bored, and disruptive as a result, in K at a respected charter that we're forced to consider privates, the burbs or moving within DC (to Upper NW? to the Brent District? try language immersion?) so he can be IB for a majority high SES school.

maybe your kid is just an asshat.

[Anonymous]

DC schools readily recognize for example the difference in a disabled child of 60 IQ versus a normal child of 100 IQ, and make accommodations via FAPE, et cetera. A child of 60 IQ will struggle with material that is no problem for a normal child of 100 IQ, a child of 60 IQ will likely never develop the full range of skills and capabilities that a child of 100 IQ will. It takes a lot more time and patience to work with a child of 60 IQ, along with tailored techniques. A normal child of 100 IQ would be bored and frustrated if those techniques were used with him.

Now... Consider that a child with a 140 IQ is every bit as much of a gap - and is every bit as different from a child with 100 IQ as a child with 100 IQ is different from a child with 60 IQ. The child with 140 IQ can easily master things that a child with 100 IQ will struggle with. It takes them far less time to understand concepts, they can advance far more rapidly and so on. Using the same techniques with them as are used with 100 IQ children will bore and frustrate them, and is every bit as much a scenario of in appropriate education as putting a 60 IQ child in a normal classroom and expecting him to perform the same as the 100 IQ students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't call my kid "truly gifted" but with Stanford graduates as parents he's already so bored, and disruptive as a result, in K at a respected charter that we're forced to consider privates, the burbs or moving within DC (to Upper NW? to the Brent District? try language immersion?) so he can be IB for a majority high SES school.

You realize that the most important part of K is to learn how to be a good citizen, not be disruptive, learn to deal with boredom and be able to control oneself. You need to get a handle on this. Private schools don't want kids with behavior issues no matter how smart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You realize that the most important part of K is to learn how to be a good citizen, not be disruptive, learn to deal with boredom and be able to control oneself. You need to get a handle on this. Private schools don't want kids with behavior issues no matter how smart.

I totally disagree that it is reasonable for a K student, who is already reading at much higher level, to be happy with educational material meant for those who are not reading yet.

My ds was reading at a high school level in K and was not happy with the curricula at all and hence had some behavioral problems. His behavioral problems were resolved once we placed him into a school with curricula that provided him with a challenge.

Your statement of learning to deal with boredom is quite inappropriate IMHO. Of course, life has boredom and one must learn to deal with it. However, it is unreasonable for a child to sit through classes day after day where he/she is not learning anything at all since they have already mastered the material. This is educational malpractice!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't call my kid "truly gifted" but with Stanford graduates as parents he's already so bored, and disruptive as a result, in K at a respected charter that we're forced to consider privates, the burbs or moving within DC (to Upper NW? to the Brent District? try language immersion?) so he can be IB for a majority high SES school.

You realize that the most important part of K is to learn how to be a good citizen, not be disruptive, learn to deal with boredom and be able to control oneself. You need to get a handle on this. Private schools don't want kids with behavior issues no matter how smart.

We've emphasized being a good citizen etc. with he won't stop pitching fits at the school after we drop him off. Teacher says she's stumped. We took him to a counselor who diagnosed "extreme boredom" as his problem, unsurprisingly since he's generally asked to do work he could have handled in pres3 or preK 4. He asks if he can "stay home to read." We know another high SES family in the class with similar issues. We're looking at Capitol Hill Day and they seem to want him, although we've been upfront about his issues. They say it's not usual for such kids to turn up on their doorstep. Maybe what we need to get a handle on is the lack of challenge in DC Charter for gifted kids, other than perhaps math at BASIS. I regret not buying in the Brent District because the school sounds worth a try. We can't afford privates in the long-run so I guess it's Fairfax for us.

[Anonymous]

Why don't you try language immersion? I have a very bright kid (not that I needed a test, but he has been tested) and language immersion has been great for DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We've emphasized being a good citizen etc. with he won't stop pitching fits at the school after we drop him off. Teacher says she's stumped. We took him to a counselor who diagnosed "extreme boredom" as his problem, unsurprisingly since he's generally asked to do work he could have handled in pres3 or preK 4. He asks if he can "stay home to read." We know another high SES family in the class with similar issues. We're looking at Capitol Hill Day and they seem to want him, although we've been upfront about his issues. They say it's not usual for such kids to turn up on their doorstep. Maybe what we need to get a handle on is the lack of challenge in DC Charter for gifted kids, other than perhaps math at BASIS. I regret not buying in the Brent District because the school sounds worth a try. We can't afford privates in the long-run so I guess it's Fairfax for us.

Actually, I have found the Basis curricula quite rigorous for my very smart 5th grader. He is not bored at all even though his knowledge base is quite remarkable. Basis will offer him the opportunity to take AP classes in history, english, science as well as advanced math curricula. Basis offers much more than accelerated math and science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You realize that the most important part of K is to learn how to be a good citizen, not be disruptive, learn to deal with boredom and be able to control oneself. You need to get a handle on this. Private schools don't want kids with behavior issues no matter how smart.

I totally disagree that it is reasonable for a K student, who is already reading at much higher level, to be happy with educational material meant for those who are not reading yet.

My ds was reading at a high school level in K and was not happy with the curricula at all and hence had some behavioral problems. His behavioral problems were resolved once we placed him into a school with curricula that provided him with a challenge.

Your statement of learning to deal with boredom is quite inappropriate IMHO. Of course, life has boredom and one must learn to deal with it. However, it is unreasonable for a child to sit through classes day after day where he/she is not learning anything at all since they have already mastered the material. This is educational malpractice!!

Agree! I bet the person saying "deal with boredom" would also get quite quickly get annoyed and frustrated if forced to waste hours and hours of her time each and every day, particularly knowing there are better things she could be doing but is not allowed to do them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


If Basis offered an elementary school program, we'd certainly consider it. Really hope they will eventually for the sake of my property values even if we can't stay in DC public schools.

Basis is opening a K-4 school in Arizona next year I believe so who know what the future holds!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Visit Latin, dude, the other charter built on great rigor. Observe many white and Asian kids (many adopted by whites) in 5th grade. Observe a handful of white and Asian kids in 10th through 12th. Note that the white parents aren't talking about leaving, the opposite. Put two and two together. High SES attrition is rampant at Latin and will occur at Basis. The only questions are how high the attrition will be and if the school will care to address the problem head on. Departing parents speak euphamistically about "good fit" schools" elsewhere when, privately, most aren't convinced that academic standards will be terribly high, or social environments all that positive, when most of their kids classmates come from multi-generational low-income families.

This is why we need gifted elementary and test-in middle school programs, and much stronger test-in high school programs, in this city - if affluent parents know that low-income kids had to clear a high bar to enter, the well-heeled will generally stay with enthusiasm. It's why whites beat down the door to get their kids into Stuyvesant High School and Thomas Jefferson, and largely stay the course. DC's leading education reformers don't get it and Basis' may or may not. All too easy to term a charter "succesful" despite the fact that most of the high SES/white families drop out along the way. But then I don't know my charter legislation, right?

The big difference between Latin and Basis is that Basis has made top ten lists for high schools multiple times and therefore has a reputation. Latin has not made these lists as far as I know.

The other difference is that Basis requires the passing of comprehensive exams to pass on to the next grade. Again, I have not heard that Latin requires this.

Therefore, I think Basis will have a much better track record of retaining students than Latin.