Be honest - what do you think of teachers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I taught 5th grade for 5 years and I've been in corporate America for almost 10.

really?

So you obviously left teaching b/c you were bored, eh?

No. I was underpaid for my skills and education. Not a good personality fit for teaching.

No, you were right to move on. Self-absorbed and greedy teachers are usually not successful in the classroom.

Wanting to be paid fairly for the hours I work makes me "greedy"? Whatev. Enjoy being a martyr.

I'm no martyr, PP. I am off summers, spending time at the pool with my children. I don't have to worry about childcare. Furthermore, at least when I leave each day, I know I've helped out at least one struggling student.

You can keep your corporate job and your long hours. Although teaching is hard and I spend hours planning and grading, I feel good about what I do. And the best part is being there for my children - being able to get them from school and having the luxury of spending my summer with my children.

So you think you work hard but still have plenty of time with your family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I taught 5th grade for 5 years and I've been in corporate America for almost 10.

really?

So you obviously left teaching b/c you were bored, eh?

No. I was underpaid for my skills and education. Not a good personality fit for teaching.

No, you were right to move on. Self-absorbed and greedy teachers are usually not successful in the classroom.

Wanting to be paid fairly for the hours I work makes me "greedy"? Whatev. Enjoy being a martyr.

I'm no martyr, PP. I am off summers, spending time at the pool with my children. I don't have to worry about childcare. Furthermore, at least when I leave each day, I know I've helped out at least one struggling student.

You can keep your corporate job and your long hours. Although teaching is hard and I spend hours planning and grading, I feel good about what I do. And the best part is being there for my children - being able to get them from school and having the luxury of spending my summer with my children.

So you think you work hard but still have plenty of time with your family?

Of course I work hard. It's emotionally draining first of all, and when you get into the nuts of bolts of planning, you're preparing lessons for many levels and different learning styles.

So I work my ass off from August to June and relax with my kids over the summer.

But you know the deal, right? as you were once in the profession

I guess you didn't work too hard as a teacher, did you?

Again, enjoy your corporate hours. I'm glad to be home with my kids over the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the profession is wholly underrated in the US, and we have a very mixed bag of teachers as a result. If teachers were more respected, better trained, and better paid, I think more competent and intelligent people would go into the field. It may be a bit of a chicken and egg problem. I've encountered many outstanding teachers, but also real duds, and not just duds at connecting with and teaching the kids. Duds also meaning teachers who use incorrect grammar and vocabulary, are unable to track a logical conversation, and the like. I don't know how the terrific teachers put up with them. Unfortunately, the kids from my small high school who went into teaching were almost universally at or near the bottom of the class academically, and nobody I know from a HYP college went into pk-12 teaching. College, grad and professional school professors, and child-related fields such as pediatrics, yes, but not teaching K-12. I think that would change if the field obtained more respect. Just look at journalism and university teaching. Neither pay a whole lot generally, but they get some of the best and brightest minds.

My best friend, a 2x HYP grad (undergrad and law school), teaches third grade.

[Anonymous]

It seems like what this debate is coming down to is the idea that most people think teachers generally work as hard as people in other professions and many of them are very good at their job (but, of course, there are duds in every profession.) Many people also wish that the teachers they know would stop complaining about being underpaid because, in actuality, when you add up benefits packages and time off, it is a fairly well-paid profession when compared against other non-profit or public sector work that requires a similar level of education.

Does that sound like a fair assessment of the debate?

So, maybe non-teachers should give teachers a little more respect and teachers should admit to non-teachers a little more that they know they have it good in many ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like what this debate is coming down to is the idea that most people think teachers generally work as hard as people in other professions and many of them are very good at their job (but, of course, there are duds in every profession.) Many people also wish that the teachers they know would stop complaining about being underpaid because, in actuality, when you add up benefits packages and time off, it is a fairly well-paid profession when compared against other non-profit or public sector work that requires a similar level of education.

Does that sound like a fair assessment of the debate?

So, maybe non-teachers should give teachers a little more respect and teachers should admit to non-teachers a little more that they know they have it good in many ways.

I think you hit it right on.

[Anonymous]

I recall reading, back in the Rhee vs. union days, that DCPS teachers average just under $90k/yr. That sounded like a great salary for a 10-month gig.

[Anonymous]

Many teachers aren't making anything close to $90k a year in this area - even in public schools. By comparison, I make $34,000 at an area private school with 5 years experience and a Master's Degree. I was Phi Beta Kappa in undergrad and have been told by the Head of School that I am among the top 2 best teachers he has worked with in 20+ years in education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers aren't making anything close to $90k a year in this area - even in public schools. By comparison, I make $34,000 at an area private school with 5 years experience and a Master's Degree. I was Phi Beta Kappa in undergrad and have been told by the Head of School that I am among the top 2 best teachers he has worked with in 20+ years in education.

Ugh. I'm about to send my son to a private school -- a smaller private school. I am worried about what the school can afford to pay their teachers when tuition is only $15,000 a year. I certainly hope you are not working at a school that charges $35,000 a year.

Do the privates at least offer good health insurance and retirement options?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I taught 5th grade for 5 years and I've been in corporate America for almost 10.

really?

So you obviously left teaching b/c you were bored, eh?

No. I was underpaid for my skills and education. Not a good personality fit for teaching.

No, you were right to move on. Self-absorbed and greedy teachers are usually not successful in the classroom.

Wanting to be paid fairly for the hours I work makes me "greedy"? Whatev. Enjoy being a martyr.

I'm no martyr, PP. I am off summers, spending time at the pool with my children. I don't have to worry about childcare. Furthermore, at least when I leave each day, I know I've helped out at least one struggling student.

You can keep your corporate job and your long hours. Although teaching is hard and I spend hours planning and grading, I feel good about what I do. And the best part is being there for my children - being able to get them from school and having the luxury of spending my summer with my children.

So you think you work hard but still have plenty of time with your family?

Of course I work hard. It's emotionally draining first of all, and when you get into the nuts of bolts of planning, you're preparing lessons for many levels and different learning styles.

So I work my ass off from August to June and relax with my kids over the summer.

But you know the deal, right? as you were once in the profession

I guess you didn't work too hard as a teacher, did you?

Again, enjoy your corporate hours. I'm glad to be home with my kids over the summer.

Do you think you are fairly paid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers aren't making anything close to $90k a year in this area - even in public schools. By comparison, I make $34,000 at an area private school with 5 years experience and a Master's Degree. I was Phi Beta Kappa in undergrad and have been told by the Head of School that I am among the top 2 best teachers he has worked with in 20+ years in education.

Ugh. I'm about to send my son to a private school -- a smaller private school. I am worried about what the school can afford to pay their teachers when tuition is only $15,000 a year. I certainly hope you are not working at a school that charges $35,000 a year.

Do the privates at least offer good health insurance and retirement options?

I am the PP you quoted, I receive zero retirement benefits and while they offer health care at my school, it is incredibly expensive, so I get my insurance through my husband's job. My school is in the $15-$20k tuition range. Some privates do offer much better benefits and pay, but I don't think it is all that unusual to be in the 30s-low 40s with experience and a Master's degree. I am lucky that my husband has a good job or else we would not be able to make it work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have great respect and admiration for those who undertake teaching. However I also have a distaste for teachers unions and tenure. Jobs should be performance based like any other. And I think it's wrong that teachers have gone without pay increases in recent years.

Agreed. But a good, fair, accurate system of evaluating performance needs to be developed first. Evaluating teachers solely on their students performance is unfair. Like evaluating doctors solely on the health of their patients. Yes, outcome is a factor. But it the outcome is not solely based on the performance of a single teacher.

Nobody is trying to base performance solely on student outcomes. That's just how it's spun to get people riled up. Even the most maligned systems have classroom observations and other pieces. I do agree with you that how to evaluate performance is still not something that's been perfected. Even if you think about whatever portion is impacted by student outcomes, there are challenges - measuring growth vs. proficiency (so teachers who teach the highest level kids don't always do better), how to handle non-core subject teachers, how to deal with teachers of ELL and SPED students, etc.

What I've heard thrown around is that even if you don't get to a perfect evaluation model, if we can just get rid of the bottom 5-10% of teachers, the worst ones, our education system would improve drastically, and student learning gains would also improve drastically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a bunch are going to end up unemployed with the federal deficit deal. Hold on tight.

You certainly don't know how things work, do you?

Agree, I'm not sure what PP is talking about. Only a very small percentage of a school's budget comes from the federal government, and that is mostly allotted for special education or something specific like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people I knew in college who majored in education weren't terribly bright. Many of them seemed more interested in getting married than having a career.

With that said, I do believe there are lots of bright, committed teachers out there and I don't believe the profession gets the pay or respect it deserves.

Since I don't have school-aged kids I don't feel like I have a clear sense of how demanding the job is. I'd imagine parents can be very difficult to deal with at times.

In general I agree with this, but many teachers didn't major in education. My DH teaches elementary school. He majored in biology, then went back to school and got a graduate degree in education. He taught MS science for awhile, then became certified to teach elementary school.

Yes, but research does show that they tend to have lower SAT scores and that they are increasingly coming from the bottom third of their college classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I respect the many hard working teachers that dedicate their lives to educating and caring for our children. There are many in our society that have the energy or interest to instill in their children an appreciation for education and the school end up being a babysitting service. Teachers are saddled with pupils who do not come to school ready and eager to learn and on top of that are pressured to make them pass tests per the No Child Left Behind legacy. It is sad. It would be nice to be able to recruit, retain, and reward excellent and well educated teachers and pay them a fantastic salary. They have one of the most important jobs in the world and yet for many their education levels don't reflect it.

I don't understand how people can make this "claim" w/o providing evidence.

I have yet to meet a teacher w/o a degree. Most have masters in MCPS. If you look at Schools at a Glance for any school, you'll see a percentage of teachers who are HQ versus those who aren't. I just randomly clicked on an elementary school - 94.8% HQ vs. 5.2%. Even in one of our low-performing middles schools, 91.9% are HQ.

Here is the definition of HQ:
The federal[b] definition of a "Highly Qualified" teacher is one who is: fully certified and/or licensed by the state; holds at least a bachelor's degree from a four-year institution; and demonstrates competence in each core academic subject area in which the teacher teaches.

Federal - So it's a nationwide requirement. In order to update certification, we're required to earn credits toward a masters +30. You can max out, however, at a +60 (or PhD).

I have 3 degrees and am at a masters +30. In our system, I am the norm. My husband has a masters +60, and I have quite a few friends and colleagues with PhDs.

It's disturbing to read such inaccurate statements again and again.

It's a nationwide requirement that each state set its own standards. So, those are all over the place. It's likely that whenever NCLB is rewritten, this piece will be significantly different than it is now. Most people realize that the 'highly qualified' designation means little in many places and has no relationship with how good of a teacher someone is. Also, teachers all get a masters in a hurry because they get a huge pay jump. The quality of these programs varies greatly, and I wouldn't be impressed with a teacher who is bragging about how many credits they've earned. The for-profit universities have jumped into this market and are handing out ed degrees left and right. Taxpayers than end up (at least around here) paying an additional 10k+ per teacher. I'm fairly liberal on most issues, but I just don't see why a teacher who has sat through a few classes automatically deserves a pay raise.

[Anonymous]

i friggin' love them They do what I wish I could and can't. They have patience I wish I had and dont. They are relied on to teach my child above all others, usually 28 times per classroom. they are not paid enough. but pro sports leagues are drafting 18 year olds at millions of dollars per year... explain that one to me.