Be honest - what do you think of teachers?

[Anonymous]

And, in response to the pp about why we do it, here are my reasons: first, it is SO much more interesting and meaningful than anything I experienced in corporate law -- I mean, would you rather spend your day talking about the Civil War or talking about FERC PURPA NOPRs?); second, I love being around kids (even middle schoolers); third, I like the variety and spontaneity involved; and fourth, I'm saving a lot of the money that I used to spend on therapy when I was at a law firm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I respect the many hard working teachers that dedicate their lives to educating and caring for our children. There are many in our society that have the energy or interest to instill in their children an appreciation for education and the school end up being a babysitting service. Teachers are saddled with pupils who do not come to school ready and eager to learn and on top of that are pressured to make them pass tests per the No Child Left Behind legacy. It is sad. It would be nice to be able to recruit, retain, and reward excellent and well educated teachers and pay them a fantastic salary. They have one of the most important jobs in the world and yet for many their education levels don't reflect it.

I don't understand how people can make this "claim" w/o providing evidence.

I have yet to meet a teacher w/o a degree. Most have masters in MCPS. If you look at Schools at a Glance for any school, you'll see a percentage of teachers who are HQ versus those who aren't. I just randomly clicked on an elementary school - 94.8% HQ vs. 5.2%. Even in one of our low-performing middles schools, 91.9% are HQ.

Here is the definition of HQ:
The federal definition of a "Highly Qualified" teacher is one who is: fully certified and/or licensed by the state; holds at least a bachelor's degree from a four-year institution; and demonstrates competence in each core academic subject area in which the teacher teaches.

Federal - So it's a nationwide requirement. In order to update certification, we're required to earn credits toward a masters +30. You can max out, however, at a +60 (or PhD).

I have 3 degrees and am at a masters +30. In our system, I am the norm. My husband has a masters +60, and I have quite a few friends and colleagues with PhDs.

It's disturbing to read such inaccurate statements again and again.

It's a nationwide requirement that each state set its own standards. So, those are all over the place. It's likely that whenever NCLB is rewritten, this piece will be significantly different than it is now. Most people realize that the 'highly qualified' designation means little in many places and has no relationship with how good of a teacher someone is. Also, teachers all get a masters in a hurry because they get a huge pay jump. The quality of these programs varies greatly, and I wouldn't be impressed with a teacher who is bragging about how many credits they've earned. The for-profit universities have jumped into this market and are handing out ed degrees left and right. Taxpayers than end up (at least around here) paying an additional 10k+ per teacher. I'm fairly liberal on most issues, [b]but I just don't see why a teacher who has sat through a few classes automatically deserves a pay raise.

huh - nice INACCURATE generalization

Tell THAT to my JHU cohort. We spend YEARS in the evening, on weekends and during the summer taking courses (that cost about $1000 each, not including books).

[Anonymous]

My county expects a minimum of a Bachelor's degree with teaching certification in your area that needs to be renewed every 5 years. The classes you need to take are reimbursed 50% after successful completion. Many schools can now afford to be very picky b/c there are so many unemployed teachers (they were laid off or never found a job out of college). My school won't even consider someone who doesn't have their Master's already and they have tons of people who fit that description. My teacher friends all have their Master's plus 30 and a few have their PhDs. Much of this is at their own expense and we all know we aren't making a lot. There are always a few rotten apples but the vast majority of teachers are extremely hard workers who love being in a classroom. The ones who don't usually leave teaching after a few years. It is a very stressful job which is often made worse if you are not in a good school. Everyone feels a LOT of pressure to raise test scores every single year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My county expects a minimum of a Bachelor's degree with teaching certification in your area that needs to be renewed every 5 years. The classes you need to take are reimbursed 50% after successful completion. Many schools can now afford to be very picky b/c there are so many unemployed teachers (they were laid off or never found a job out of college). My school won't even consider someone who doesn't have their Master's already and they have tons of people who fit that description. My teacher friends all have their Master's plus 30 and a few have their PhDs. Much of this is at their own expense and we all know we aren't making a lot. There are always a few rotten apples but the vast majority of teachers are extremely hard workers who love being in a classroom. The ones who don't usually leave teaching after a few years. It is a very stressful job which is often made worse if you are not in a good school. Everyone feels a LOT of pressure to raise test scores every single year.

There is NO research that shows that teachers with advanced degrees are better teachers than those without. It's completely irrelevant. I know it is at their own expense, and I appreciate their motivation to take better themselves, but it still doesn't make it valuable or useful. Sometimes it is, many times it isn't. Almost all school systems give a pay bump when teachers earn a graduate degree, so why wouldn't they pay a little upfront, so their salaries increase from here on out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My county expects a minimum of a Bachelor's degree with teaching certification in your area that needs to be renewed every 5 years. The classes you need to take are reimbursed 50% after successful completion. Many schools can now afford to be very picky b/c there are so many unemployed teachers (they were laid off or never found a job out of college). My school won't even consider someone who doesn't have their Master's already and they have tons of people who fit that description. My teacher friends all have their Master's plus 30 and a few have their PhDs. Much of this is at their own expense and we all know we aren't making a lot. There are always a few rotten apples but the vast majority of teachers are extremely hard workers who love being in a classroom. The ones who don't usually leave teaching after a few years. It is a very stressful job which is often made worse if you are not in a good school. Everyone feels a LOT of pressure to raise test scores every single year.

There is NO research that shows that teachers with advanced degrees are better teachers than those without. It's completely irrelevant. I know it is at their own expense, and I appreciate their motivation to take better themselves, but it still doesn't make it valuable or useful. Sometimes it is, many times it isn't. Almost all school systems give a pay bump when teachers earn a graduate degree, so why wouldn't they pay a little upfront, so their salaries increase from here on out?

The motivation is that you're required to continue your education in an approved plan--and 95% that is going to mean Master's Degree. At least, this is how it was in the state where I was certified. I don't know the requirements around here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know there are horrifically bad teachers and astoundingly amazing teachers - that is not what I am asking. What I want to know is:

1. What do you think of people who choose to enter the teaching profession?
2. What do you think about teaching as a career - in terms of how demanding it is or what it requires.

They are grossly underpaid and unappreciated, have to deal with undisciplined, spoiled brats who do not listen, do not want to learn and should be kicked out on their butts, but teachers are no longer allowed to discipline. They have to deal with parents who think their little darling is the only student in class. I have known several fantastic teachers who have said, "to hell with this," and gone to law school. They aren't necessarily happy as lawyers but at least they are paid well and they don't have to deal with undisciplined, unruly, spoiled, petulant students and parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My county expects a minimum of a Bachelor's degree with teaching certification in your area that needs to be renewed every 5 years. The classes you need to take are reimbursed 50% after successful completion. Many schools can now afford to be very picky b/c there are so many unemployed teachers (they were laid off or never found a job out of college). My school won't even consider someone who doesn't have their Master's already and they have tons of people who fit that description. My teacher friends all have their Master's plus 30 and a few have their PhDs. Much of this is at their own expense and we all know we aren't making a lot. There are always a few rotten apples but the vast majority of teachers are extremely hard workers who love being in a classroom. The ones who don't usually leave teaching after a few years. It is a very stressful job which is often made worse if you are not in a good school. Everyone feels a LOT of pressure to raise test scores every single year.

There is NO research that shows that teachers with advanced degrees are better teachers than those without. It's completely irrelevant. I know it is at their own expense, and I appreciate their motivation to take better themselves, but it still doesn't make it valuable or useful. Sometimes it is, many times it isn't. Almost all school systems give a pay bump when teachers earn a graduate degree, so why wouldn't they pay a little upfront, so their salaries increase from here on out?

Then maybe someone should tell the school systems this b/c they spend a lot of money on it. The difference between a Bachelor's and a Master's is about a thousand dollars. That's it. The difference between a Master's and a Master's plus 30 in my district in a big fat zero yet we are still required to pay quite a bit out of pocket for it. You don't have a choice to take or not take additional coursework. If you don't, you won't be recertified which means no job.

[Anonymous]

There is NO research that shows that teachers with advanced degrees are better teachers than those without. It's completely irrelevant. I know it is at their own expense, and I appreciate their motivation to take better themselves, but it still doesn't make it valuable or useful. Sometimes it is, many times it isn't.

NP here.

You are a little-bit-sort-of-almost-right. It is true there is little to no research that shows that teachers with advanced degrees are better teachers...but what you are failing to account for is that there is little to no agreement on what constitutes good teaching OR how to assess or evaluate good teaching. There is no quantifiable, articulate criteria to work with.The default measure, of course, is to use standardized test results as a measure of effective teaching. The problem with THAT, of course, if that we have to question the reliability and validity of standardized tests to measure student learning and then directly link (if we can pass threats to validity/reliability tests) those results to some vague criteria that we think constitutes "good" teaching. Almost impossible.

I don't mean to suggest that we know nothing about what makes "better" teachers. I think we know a few things about a few things and somehow we make an erroneous leap that screams, if we find a thread, we have the answer.

I think you are wrong to say that advanced degrees are completely irrelevant, yet, you are onto something important if you mean that advanced degrees don't guarantee a better, or high quality, teacher.