Be honest - what do you think of teachers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think teachers have hard jobs and one of the most important jobs out there. I think they are underpaid (per hour). It's a tough job. I respect anyone who wants to do it.

That said, I do get tired of the complaining. Teachers do know the downsides of the profession when they take the job. Further, despite the claims of many teachers on this board about how they take the job home and do things during the summer (for e.g.) I have yet to see this true in real life. And, I know a LOT of teachers. What I see are teachers posting on FB about how they are hoping for snow days, at the pool all summer and don't want work to start again. There's nothing wrong with any of that. But, it undercuts many of the claims I see on here. (We are in Fairfax, fwiw). And, why should they paid for 12 months when they're are only really working for 9?

Technically it's 10 months, not 9. And some opt to have their pay spread out over 12 months instead of condensed into 10 so they have a steady source of income and are not going without income for 2 months. Some teachers also work an additional part time job over the summer.

They aren't getting paid more by being paid for those 2 months - it's the same annual amount, just spread out over 12 months instead of 10.

Ok, 10 months. The rest of your post does not change anything I said.

(And, I wasn't assuming that teachers are paid all year for work b/c some rec'd paychecks in the summer. You misunderstood my post.)

[Anonymous]

Yes, but research does show that they tend to have lower SAT scores and that they are increasingly coming from the bottom third of their college classes.

What research are you talking about? Please share specific peer-reviewed scholarly articles that reach these conclusions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, but research does show that they tend to have lower SAT scores and that they are increasingly coming from the bottom third of their college classes.

What research are you talking about? Please share specific peer-reviewed scholarly articles that reach these conclusions.

Even if it's true that they have lower SAT scores on average, it would be stupid to take that as an indicator of quality. I test off the charts on those types of standardized tests, but know in my heart I don't have the skill set and personality necessary to be a great teacher. The kind of teacher you remember all your life. Excelling at something is not all about high intelligence. There are many factors involved.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, PP! So true and well said!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, but research does show that they tend to have lower SAT scores and that they are increasingly coming from the bottom third of their college classes.

What research are you talking about? Please share specific peer-reviewed scholarly articles that reach these conclusions.

PP you quoted. Just for the record, I actually do have great respect for teachers and think we need to do more to elevate the profession and bring in more high-quality candidates.

However, here is some data on teachers' educational background and how it compares with some other professions as well. It's not an academic study, but McKinsey is a very well-regarded firm.

http://www.mckinsey.com/clientservice/Social_Sector/our_practices/Education/Knowledge_Highlights/~/media/Reports/SSO/Closing_talent_gap_appendix.ashx

As another PP said, intellectual ability doesn't always correlate with being a great teacher. That may definitely be true for elementary levels. However, I would like my child's AP Calculus or English teacher to be able to process a few levels above the curriculum, so they can see the bigger picture and help their students do the same. Especially for high-need subjects in high-need geographic areas, we do not have enough of the high quality teachers we need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, but research does show that they tend to have lower SAT scores and that they are increasingly coming from the bottom third of their college classes.

What research are you talking about? Please share specific peer-reviewed scholarly articles that reach these conclusions.

PP you quoted. Just for the record, I actually do have great respect for teachers and think we need to do more to elevate the profession and bring in more high-quality candidates.

However, here is some data on teachers' educational background and how it compares with some other professions as well. It's not an academic study, but McKinsey is a very well-regarded firm.

http://www.mckinsey.com/clientservice/Social_Sector/our_practices/Education/Knowledge_Highlights/~/media/Reports/SSO/Closing_talent_gap_appendix.ashx

As another PP said, intellectual ability doesn't always correlate with being a great teacher. That may definitely be true for elementary levels. However, I would like my child's AP Calculus or English teacher to be able to process a few levels above the curriculum, so they can see the bigger picture and help their students do the same. Especially for high-need subjects in high-need geographic areas, we do not have enough of the high quality teachers we need.

Not the pp/former pp/etc but I keep seeing people rant about he SAT scores (without presenting evidence) as a way to bash teachers. I will be the first to admit that I am a teacher and my SAT scores were not great. Not because I didn't know the material but because I'm a horrible test taker. Despite my dismal SAT score I was on Dean's List/President's Scholar/etc through college and can apply what I learn better then test on what I've learned.

Also since elementary teachers teach all subjects and teach the foundations for those subjects it is critical that they know them well. Upper level teachers may be able to focus on what they are good at (ie: English or science or math) elementary teachers have to know it all. I've met a lot of people (including teachers) who assume that teaching elementary is easier but it's not. It's also very different then teaching high school. Young kids are concrete thinkers which requires a lot of hands on/experience based learning and for some kids you really have to work to help them move into abstract thinking.

(Before anybody finds and bashes some obscure teacher's typos - I'm tired and in a rush!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
PP you quoted. Just for the record, I actually do have great respect for teachers and think we need to do more to elevate the profession and bring in more high-quality candidates.

However, here is some data on teachers' educational background and how it compares with some other professions as well. It's not an academic study, but McKinsey is a very well-regarded firm.

http://www.mckinsey.com/clientservice/Social_Sector/our_practices/Education/Knowledge_Highlights/~/media/Reports/SSO/Closing_talent_gap_appendix.ashx

As another PP said, intellectual ability doesn't always correlate with being a great teacher. That may definitely be true for elementary levels. However, I would like my child's AP Calculus or English teacher to be able to process a few levels above the curriculum, so they can see the bigger picture and help their students do the same. Especially for high-need subjects in high-need geographic areas, we do not have enough of the high quality teachers we need.

One takeaway from a study like this, is that the SAT scores would likely be different if teachers were paid more. Smart people want to be rewarded for their hard work so many go into law, engineering, etc. If teachers were paid better (and had better working conditions), schools would probably receive higher quality applicants applying. When I told my family and other people that I wanted to be a teacher while I had a 3.98 GPA in college, some of them told me there was so much more I "could be doing with that brain." My dad was "Big Law" and mom was a SAHM. We should be looking for more ways to attract top tier teaching candidates and although there are many WONDERFUL teachers out there, it is obvious the current system is not fully working in that respect. I have seen it in my own colleagues throughout my teaching career - there simply are not that many I would really want teaching my own child.

At the same time, I agree that pure intellect/smarts does not equal a great teacher - you only need to sit in on a lecture by a number of a PhD's to realize this is true. Sometimes when people know so much or things come really easily to them, they cannot break the information down appropriately for their students or help students who struggle because they themselves never did.

[Anonymous]

" Smart people want to be rewarded for their hard work so many go into law, engineering, etc."

Yes, that's why I can't understand teachers' claims that they work so hard for their money, while trumpeting at the same time how family friendly the profession is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:" Smart people want to be rewarded for their hard work so many go into law, engineering, etc."

Yes, that's why I can't understand teachers' claims that they work so hard for their money, while trumpeting at the same time how family friendly the profession is.

It is sad that working hard cannot equal family friendly. In any event, teaching is so family friendly that I quit my job to become a SAHM because I would barely be able to afford daycare after taxes with my salary (plus other related job expenses: gas for the car, work clothes, etc.). As a teacher I work about 12 hours per day and I work a lot on the weekends as well. In the first few years, I would get to work at 7am and stay until 5pm. Then I would come home eat dinner and then work again until I fell asleep. It is hard work, time consuming and emotionally draining. It is not easy to have a child pouring out their soul to you and telling you their father is sexually abusing them. Or watching a child throw another smaller boy across the hallway so hard he bounces off of a locker. Then when you take the offender down to the office, the principal tells you to write a referral. When you get back to your classroom there is an angry phone message from a parent telling you to "get your facts straight" before writing a referral on her son since the principal determined it was just horseplay. Or designing lesson plans to make the French and Indian War come alive for your students. Or paying out of your own pocket thousands of dollars for school supplies for your students who cannot afford them. I had NO idea how difficult teaching would be when I entered the profession. If it is so easy and has all of these great benefits that people trumpet, I don't understand why more smart people aren't jumping to get into teaching. The truth is that about 50% of teachers leave within the first five years because it is an incredibly difficult job to do well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" Smart people want to be rewarded for their hard work so many go into law, engineering, etc."

Yes, that's why I can't understand teachers' claims that they work so hard for their money, while trumpeting at the same time how family friendly the profession is.

It is sad that working hard cannot equal family friendly. In any event, teaching is so family friendly that I quit my job to become a SAHM because I would barely be able to afford daycare after taxes with my salary (plus other related job expenses: gas for the car, work clothes, etc.). As a teacher I work about 12 hours per day and I work a lot on the weekends as well. In the first few years, I would get to work at 7am and stay until 5pm. Then I would come home eat dinner and then work again until I fell asleep. It is hard work, time consuming and emotionally draining. It is not easy to have a child pouring out their soul to you and telling you their father is sexually abusing them. Or watching a child throw another smaller boy across the hallway so hard he bounces off of a locker. Then when you take the offender down to the office, the principal tells you to write a referral. When you get back to your classroom there is an angry phone message from a parent telling you to "get your facts straight" before writing a referral on her son since the principal determined it was just horseplay. Or designing lesson plans to make the French and Indian War come alive for your students. Or paying out of your own pocket thousands of dollars for school supplies for your students who cannot afford them. I had NO idea how difficult teaching would be when I entered the profession. If it is so easy and has all of these great benefits that people trumpet, I don't understand why more smart people aren't jumping to get into teaching. The truth is that about 50% of teachers leave within the first five years because it is an incredibly difficult job to do well.

you must be a drama teacher!

[Anonymous]

oh shut up, PP. I also worked 4 yrs in a tough school in SE DC and had many of the same experiences. Unless you've been there, you really have no idea what it's like. Those of us that have tend to wear out quickly. It is not a job you can do and forget about at the end of the day. No leisurely lunch breaks, coffee breaks, down time at the water cooler, easy Fridays, etc. It's always on, 7 hours straight, then cleaning up and gearing up for the next grueling day. I guarantee many CEOs/business types couldn't hang.

[Anonymous]

My husband is a teacher, at a private school in Mont. Co. It's an endless, thankless and draining job. If I work outside of 9am- 5:30pm, somebody is paying me overtime, you best believe that. He, on the other hand, leaves the house at 6am, gets home at 4:30 and keeps working until bedtime, because you have to prep for the next day and all of that shit. He goes in on weekends for fairs, to tend to the school garden, teacher conference and for any other reason you can think of but he still only makes $40K for the whole year.

The only bright side of it is that he truly enjoys his job and our children reap the benefits of Dad being a teacher. He teaches them all sorts of things I have no clue about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" Smart people want to be rewarded for their hard work so many go into law, engineering, etc."

Yes, that's why I can't understand teachers' claims that they work so hard for their money, while trumpeting at the same time how family friendly the profession is.

It is sad that working hard cannot equal family friendly. In any event, teaching is so family friendly that I quit my job to become a SAHM because I would barely be able to afford daycare after taxes with my salary (plus other related job expenses: gas for the car, work clothes, etc.). As a teacher I work about 12 hours per day and I work a lot on the weekends as well. In the first few years, I would get to work at 7am and stay until 5pm. Then I would come home eat dinner and then work again until I fell asleep. It is hard work, time consuming and emotionally draining. It is not easy to have a child pouring out their soul to you and telling you their father is sexually abusing them. Or watching a child throw another smaller boy across the hallway so hard he bounces off of a locker. Then when you take the offender down to the office, the principal tells you to write a referral. When you get back to your classroom there is an angry phone message from a parent telling you to "get your facts straight" before writing a referral on her son since the principal determined it was just horseplay. Or designing lesson plans to make the French and Indian War come alive for your students. Or paying out of your own pocket thousands of dollars for school supplies for your students who cannot afford them. I had NO idea how difficult teaching would be when I entered the profession. If it is so easy and has all of these great benefits that people trumpet, I don't understand why more smart people aren't jumping to get into teaching. The truth is that about 50% of teachers leave within the first five years because it is an incredibly difficult job to do well.

Again, what's your claim? That teachers are overworked and underpaid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:oh shut up, PP. I also worked 4 yrs in a tough school in SE DC and had many of the same experiences. Unless you've been there, you really have no idea what it's like. Those of us that have tend to wear out quickly. It is not a job you can do and forget about at the end of the day. No leisurely lunch breaks, coffee breaks, down time at the water cooler, easy Fridays, etc. It's always on, 7 hours straight, then cleaning up and gearing up for the next grueling day. I guarantee many CEOs/business types couldn't hang.

So why do you do it, if you could be a "business type"? Makes no logical sense.

[Anonymous]

No leisurely lunch breaks, coffee breaks, down time at the water cooler, easy Fridays, etc.

This is so true. I worked in Big Law before going back to get my teaching degree. As an intern, I shepherded a first-grade class down to the music room for a lesson one day. We were about three minutes late. The teacher was NOT happy, because she needed every second to cover the material. This was not atypical; every minute is accounted for. Such punctuality is extremely difficult when you're dealing with a class of 26 children.

Good teachers have to be incredibly organized, unfailingly patient, and adaptable. Yes, you have to master the material, and elementary-level math, science, etc. is not difficult for adults to understand. However, being able to read and write well is different from being able to teach children how to read and write. Almost any one of us could stand in front of a class of fourth graders and drone on about multiplication, but getting kids to understand and appreciate these subjects (and learning itself) is very challenging.