This is not real life - paying for college edition

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been living inside the DCUM bubble for a long time. My first kid is going to college this fall, and I've joined a few college Facebook groups. I am absolutely gobsmacked by the lack of financial resources and acumen among most people in this country. Many parents seem to be surprised that they can't afford the college their kid got into, or are strategizing about how to take out loans for the entire 4 years.

I recognize that most of us here are privileged in one way or another. Either we are high earners, we've diligently saved for school, or we understand that you shouldn't go somewhere that you can't afford. It's insanity out there.

I'm in some college groups and I find your statement to be true. I have to remind myself not to post. I have no words of wisdom to offer a rising senior parent who hasn't saved. There's nothing that can be done now. Posting that won't help the situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be the most out of touch thread on DCUM. And that’s saying something!

I know. It’s why so few are shocked that the op just figured this out. Instead they’re all patting themselves on the back for saving $300k per kid.

If you live in a small town or suburb in most of America your family home probably cost $350k 10 years ago (except the 10 major metro areas) and your family with 2-4 kids survives on a hhi of around $80k. If mom or dad went to college it was a in state public. There isn’t $500 a month per kid to sock away in a 529. And even if there was, the prevailing culture there is that it’s the parents job to get the kids through high school…after that they’re on their own. The dmv is a weird place.

These people go to school for free, almost anywhere in the T30 and up. They qualify for full aid. No need to save. These are the ones the ivies and such are chasing: rural areas especially in less-popular states, high-enough scoring 1480+ smart kids who maxed out their high school's rigor. And yet this group is the least likely to know about ivies or what benefits they can have on a smart kid from a middle class background.

Np here. True, but PP’s post is spot on if you replace the $80K with an income high enough to not receive financial aid, but low enough to not afford to save for college for multiple kids. That’s who really suffers with college debt.

DP.
Ok. But what would that be? (partial)need based aid goes up into the 250-300k HHI range for 5 of the ivies and a couple of other top privates, full tuition(ie COA down to 20-30k) is up to around 200kHHI with normal assets. I get that there are outliers with unique facts, but for the most part people who make 200-300k can afford college, and all of those 300k+ (full pay) should have been able to save or have a plan unless they woke up yesterday? It is odd to see such high earners, yes 200-300-and above is HIGH, not have the ability to pay. That is almost always more about choices made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a SAHM for 12 years. We were fine during that time, but we were not able to save much at all for college. We always knew we would have to pay for college as we went and after. In the end, we will have had at least one kid in college for 10 years! They all go to a state college, so nothing fancy. We qualify for PSLF, so by the time we hit 120 payments, we will have paid nowhere near what we would have up front. So this might have ended up being the more financially sound route after all. This is partially luck - because of the covid pause, we have credit for WAY more payments than we’ve actually made. A huge chunk of our loans will be forgiven after only 5 years of payments.

If we had spent those years saving for college, we would not have been able to go on all the vacations and do all the fun things as a family. So basically, we chose to be more liberal with our finances while our kids were young rather than scrimp and save during those years so that we could have better cash flow after they left home.

Was this the smartest decision? Maybe not, especially with the current situation. Keep in mind that we had no idea back then that this country would elect freaking Donald Trump twice and that he would get his kicks by screwing with the finances of every American. Who could have foreseen that? Things are tight right now. But I have no regrets! Kids are only little once, and I am glad we lived our best lives during that time.

? so taxpayers are footing the bill for your fun life in the early years?

Yes because our government decided that people who dedicate their lives to public service deserve to have this break. Dh has been in public service for 35 years. I have been since I went back to work 10 years ago and for 3 years before being a SAHM. The covid benefit was compensation for navigating this unprecedented situation - having to pull our oldest from campus, move her out of the dorm suddenly, buy her a laptop that was compatible with university software, being charged full college tuition for a kid sitting in her room taking class on a laptop, etc. Money was wasted on class supplies and dorm essentials that she never needed again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be the most out of touch thread on DCUM. And that’s saying something!

I know. It’s why so few are shocked that the op just figured this out. Instead they’re all patting themselves on the back for saving $300k per kid.

If you live in a small town or suburb in most of America your family home probably cost $350k 10 years ago (except the 10 major metro areas) and your family with 2-4 kids survives on a hhi of around $80k. If mom or dad went to college it was a in state public. There isn’t $500 a month per kid to sock away in a 529. And even if there was, the prevailing culture there is that it’s the parents job to get the kids through high school…after that they’re on their own. The dmv is a weird place.

These people go to school for free, almost anywhere in the T30 and up. They qualify for full aid. No need to save. These are the ones the ivies and such are chasing: rural areas especially in less-popular states, high-enough scoring 1480+ smart kids who maxed out their high school's rigor. And yet this group is the least likely to know about ivies or what benefits they can have on a smart kid from a middle class background.

Np here. True, but PP’s post is spot on if you replace the $80K with an income high enough to not receive financial aid, but low enough to not afford to save for college for multiple kids. That’s who really suffers with college debt.

DP.
Ok. But what would that be? (partial)need based aid goes up into the 250-300k HHI range for 5 of the ivies and a couple of other top privates, full tuition(ie COA down to 20-30k) is up to around 200kHHI with normal assets. I get that there are outliers with unique facts, but for the most part people who make 200-300k can afford college, and all of those 300k+ (full pay) should have been able to save or have a plan unless they woke up yesterday? It is odd to see such high earners, yes 200-300-and above is HIGH, not have the ability to pay. That is almost always more about choices made.

Hmmm… our HHI is about $220K. We have had 1-2 kids in college for 8 years now. We have ONLY qualified for loans. All of our kids go to state schools in the midwest. Their tuition and housing is about $20K per year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be the most out of touch thread on DCUM. And that’s saying something!

I know. It’s why so few are shocked that the op just figured this out. Instead they’re all patting themselves on the back for saving $300k per kid.

If you live in a small town or suburb in most of America your family home probably cost $350k 10 years ago (except the 10 major metro areas) and your family with 2-4 kids survives on a hhi of around $80k. If mom or dad went to college it was a in state public. There isn’t $500 a month per kid to sock away in a 529. And even if there was, the prevailing culture there is that it’s the parents job to get the kids through high school…after that they’re on their own. The dmv is a weird place.

These people go to school for free, almost anywhere in the T30 and up. They qualify for full aid. No need to save. These are the ones the ivies and such are chasing: rural areas especially in less-popular states, high-enough scoring 1480+ smart kids who maxed out their high school's rigor. And yet this group is the least likely to know about ivies or what benefits they can have on a smart kid from a middle class background.

Np here. True, but PP’s post is spot on if you replace the $80K with an income high enough to not receive financial aid, but low enough to not afford to save for college for multiple kids. That’s who really suffers with college debt.

DP.
Ok. But what would that be? (partial)need based aid goes up into the 250-300k HHI range for 5 of the ivies and a couple of other top privates, full tuition(ie COA down to 20-30k) is up to around 200kHHI with normal assets. I get that there are outliers with unique facts, but for the most part people who make 200-300k can afford college, and all of those 300k+ (full pay) should have been able to save or have a plan unless they woke up yesterday? It is odd to see such high earners, yes 200-300-and above is HIGH, not have the ability to pay. That is almost always more about choices made.

Many people that earn $300K today did not earn $300K 18 years ago. Today I make $350. This started 12 months ago. Prior to that I was between $150-$180. I took a job 2 years ago that bumped me to $250 and then recently got a promo that bumped me to $350. When I was earning $150-$180, I had 2 kids, daycare, and aftercare. There was some money put away into the 529s but certainly not what I would have saved had I been earning $350 many years ago. I can cash flow some of college now, but not for 2 kids at $90K/year. My kids will be chasing merit and if not it will be state school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be the most out of touch thread on DCUM. And that’s saying something!

I know. It’s why so few are shocked that the op just figured this out. Instead they’re all patting themselves on the back for saving $300k per kid.

If you live in a small town or suburb in most of America your family home probably cost $350k 10 years ago (except the 10 major metro areas) and your family with 2-4 kids survives on a hhi of around $80k. If mom or dad went to college it was a in state public. There isn’t $500 a month per kid to sock away in a 529. And even if there was, the prevailing culture there is that it’s the parents job to get the kids through high school…after that they’re on their own. The dmv is a weird place.

These people go to school for free, almost anywhere in the T30 and up. They qualify for full aid. No need to save. These are the ones the ivies and such are chasing: rural areas especially in less-popular states, high-enough scoring 1480+ smart kids who maxed out their high school's rigor. And yet this group is the least likely to know about ivies or what benefits they can have on a smart kid from a middle class background.

Np here. True, but PP’s post is spot on if you replace the $80K with an income high enough to not receive financial aid, but low enough to not afford to save for college for multiple kids. That’s who really suffers with college debt.

DP.
Ok. But what would that be? (partial)need based aid goes up into the 250-300k HHI range for 5 of the ivies and a couple of other top privates, full tuition(ie COA down to 20-30k) is up to around 200kHHI with normal assets. I get that there are outliers with unique facts, but for the most part people who make 200-300k can afford college, and all of those 300k+ (full pay) should have been able to save or have a plan unless they woke up yesterday? It is odd to see such high earners, yes 200-300-and above is HIGH, not have the ability to pay. That is almost always more about choices made.

Hmmm… our HHI is about $220K. We have had 1-2 kids in college for 8 years now. We have ONLY qualified for loans. All of our kids go to state schools in the midwest. Their tuition and housing is about $20K per year.

Only ivies and certain privates give need based aid (and grants not loans!) for your HHI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be the most out of touch thread on DCUM. And that’s saying something!

I know. It’s why so few are shocked that the op just figured this out. Instead they’re all patting themselves on the back for saving $300k per kid.

If you live in a small town or suburb in most of America your family home probably cost $350k 10 years ago (except the 10 major metro areas) and your family with 2-4 kids survives on a hhi of around $80k. If mom or dad went to college it was a in state public. There isn’t $500 a month per kid to sock away in a 529. And even if there was, the prevailing culture there is that it’s the parents job to get the kids through high school…after that they’re on their own. The dmv is a weird place.

These people go to school for free, almost anywhere in the T30 and up. They qualify for full aid. No need to save. These are the ones the ivies and such are chasing: rural areas especially in less-popular states, high-enough scoring 1480+ smart kids who maxed out their high school's rigor. And yet this group is the least likely to know about ivies or what benefits they can have on a smart kid from a middle class background.

Np here. True, but PP’s post is spot on if you replace the $80K with an income high enough to not receive financial aid, but low enough to not afford to save for college for multiple kids. That’s who really suffers with college debt.

DP.
Ok. But what would that be? (partial)need based aid goes up into the 250-300k HHI range for 5 of the ivies and a couple of other top privates, full tuition(ie COA down to 20-30k) is up to around 200kHHI with normal assets. I get that there are outliers with unique facts, but for the most part people who make 200-300k can afford college, and all of those 300k+ (full pay) should have been able to save or have a plan unless they woke up yesterday? It is odd to see such high earners, yes 200-300-and above is HIGH, not have the ability to pay. That is almost always more about choices made.

Many people that earn $300K today did not earn $300K 18 years ago. Today I make $350. This started 12 months ago. Prior to that I was between $150-$180. I took a job 2 years ago that bumped me to $250 and then recently got a promo that bumped me to $350. When I was earning $150-$180, I had 2 kids, daycare, and aftercare. There was some money put away into the 529s but certainly not what I would have saved had I been earning $350 many years ago. I can cash flow some of college now, but not for 2 kids at $90K/year. My kids will be chasing merit and if not it will be state school.

It is difficult to have the discipline, but both of those times you should have kept your expenses exactly the same and banked the rest, you would easily be able to afford 2 kids at 90k a year adding in your current cash flow abilities. If yours are not in yet you still have time to save a lot by going back to your prior budget.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be the most out of touch thread on DCUM. And that’s saying something!

I know. It’s why so few are shocked that the op just figured this out. Instead they’re all patting themselves on the back for saving $300k per kid.

If you live in a small town or suburb in most of America your family home probably cost $350k 10 years ago (except the 10 major metro areas) and your family with 2-4 kids survives on a hhi of around $80k. If mom or dad went to college it was a in state public. There isn’t $500 a month per kid to sock away in a 529. And even if there was, the prevailing culture there is that it’s the parents job to get the kids through high school…after that they’re on their own. The dmv is a weird place.

These people go to school for free, almost anywhere in the T30 and up. They qualify for full aid. No need to save. These are the ones the ivies and such are chasing: rural areas especially in less-popular states, high-enough scoring 1480+ smart kids who maxed out their high school's rigor. And yet this group is the least likely to know about ivies or what benefits they can have on a smart kid from a middle class background.

Np here. True, but PP’s post is spot on if you replace the $80K with an income high enough to not receive financial aid, but low enough to not afford to save for college for multiple kids. That’s who really suffers with college debt.

DP.
Ok. But what would that be? (partial)need based aid goes up into the 250-300k HHI range for 5 of the ivies and a couple of other top privates, full tuition(ie COA down to 20-30k) is up to around 200kHHI with normal assets. I get that there are outliers with unique facts, but for the most part people who make 200-300k can afford college, and all of those 300k+ (full pay) should have been able to save or have a plan unless they woke up yesterday? It is odd to see such high earners, yes 200-300-and above is HIGH, not have the ability to pay. That is almost always more about choices made.

Many people that earn $300K today did not earn $300K 18 years ago. Today I make $350. This started 12 months ago. Prior to that I was between $150-$180. I took a job 2 years ago that bumped me to $250 and then recently got a promo that bumped me to $350. When I was earning $150-$180, I had 2 kids, daycare, and aftercare. There was some money put away into the 529s but certainly not what I would have saved had I been earning $350 many years ago. I can cash flow some of college now, but not for 2 kids at $90K/year. My kids will be chasing merit and if not it will be state school.

Just curious— why can’t you cash flow this? What are your remaining expenses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be the most out of touch thread on DCUM. And that’s saying something!

I know. It’s why so few are shocked that the op just figured this out. Instead they’re all patting themselves on the back for saving $300k per kid.

If you live in a small town or suburb in most of America your family home probably cost $350k 10 years ago (except the 10 major metro areas) and your family with 2-4 kids survives on a hhi of around $80k. If mom or dad went to college it was a in state public. There isn’t $500 a month per kid to sock away in a 529. And even if there was, the prevailing culture there is that it’s the parents job to get the kids through high school…after that they’re on their own. The dmv is a weird place.

These people go to school for free, almost anywhere in the T30 and up. They qualify for full aid. No need to save. These are the ones the ivies and such are chasing: rural areas especially in less-popular states, high-enough scoring 1480+ smart kids who maxed out their high school's rigor. And yet this group is the least likely to know about ivies or what benefits they can have on a smart kid from a middle class background.

Np here. True, but PP’s post is spot on if you replace the $80K with an income high enough to not receive financial aid, but low enough to not afford to save for college for multiple kids. That’s who really suffers with college debt.

DP.
Ok. But what would that be? (partial)need based aid goes up into the 250-300k HHI range for 5 of the ivies and a couple of other top privates, full tuition(ie COA down to 20-30k) is up to around 200kHHI with normal assets. I get that there are outliers with unique facts, but for the most part people who make 200-300k can afford college, and all of those 300k+ (full pay) should have been able to save or have a plan unless they woke up yesterday? It is odd to see such high earners, yes 200-300-and above is HIGH, not have the ability to pay. That is almost always more about choices made.

People who “should have been able to save or have a plan,” as you advise, NEVER have “normal assets” within the meaning of these promises. The meaning of “normal assets” is “we have no plan.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM area has high proportion of government workers who typically save save save - and are generally pretty fiscally responsible. Here in NYC area you have high earners / high spenders who just plan on covering college from free cash flow, like i’m doing now for two kids enrolled concurrently. Typical ant vs grasshopper lol

I'm the DC saver. Also a widow with a relatively low income - low enough that it was below the "dream" school's advertised "full tuition waiver." Guess what - no FA offered, and when I appealed, I was told that I have more non-retirement money than most parents of incoming freshman. And this is a school with lots of rich kids. I actually said to the FA counselor, "I find that really hard to believe" and I do. Plus, that money has to supplement my income until I retire because I can't meet my monthly expenses on my income alone. My appeal was rejected, and DS is not attending that school.

Sour grapes all around. I have done everything right. But at least I can easily pay for 4 years at the school where DS landed. And he's being great about it; he told me I should never apologize for saving money.

Oh I bet it is more than most incoming freshman! We are full pay, no loans, for two at two different ivies and have nothing non-retirement other than a tiny 529 that was spent the first year they overlapped. Very few of my full pay ivy friends have anything outside of retirement. If you have all of that NON-retirement, presumably you also have adequate retirement savings too-- then why didn't you let him go to his dream school? Why are you spending more than you earn? The dream schools with the full tuition waiver are all ivy/T10 schools. Students there can EASILY get TAships or library jobs that make 5-6k per year, and there are dozens of options to get funded summers, some with generous stipends, never mind the job/career boost.

Umm, because my husband died unexpectedly? And we bought our house before he died? And the mortgage is more than I bring home because he made more money than I? Wow, how hard is it to understand that losing the breadwinning parent is a major shift in a family's finances? DH had life insurance, and I have put that money aside to draw down from and meet our living expenses until I retire so that we can stay in our home and not further disrupt our family life. It was the prudent thing to do. However, had I spent the money and not saved it, my child would be attending his dream school (not an Ivy, by the way, but a very well-regarded school - I'm sure you could narrow it down, but I'm not outing myself by naming it). If I spend the money on tuition, I won't have the cushion that I need to get my family (which included 2 other children) through the next few years.

Your empathy and compassion are inspiring

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been living inside the DCUM bubble for a long time. My first kid is going to college this fall, and I've joined a few college Facebook groups. I am absolutely gobsmacked by the lack of financial resources and acumen among most people in this country. Many parents seem to be surprised that they can't afford the college their kid got into, or are strategizing about how to take out loans for the entire 4 years.

I recognize that most of us here are privileged in one way or another. Either we are high earners, we've diligently saved for school, or we understand that you shouldn't go somewhere that you can't afford. It's insanity out there.

Not everyone is well informed about college costs. Families of immigrants and first Gen college attendees aren’t familiar with the system. Also colleges usually advertise costs with average aid factored in, not everyone gets full or even enough aid.

What’s crazy is college costs, specially top ranking colleges. Colleges can keep it high for international and non citizens but they should lower costs for citizens to a more affordable level. College cost is nothing for rich, poor make it with aid but for upper middle class family not gaming finances, this is insane amount of money to pay. Their only option is to go to much lower ranking colleges offering merit money.

you only have to go outside the top 25-30 to find schools with great merit offers. That's not actually "much lower ranked ". Plenty of excellent schools that can be affordable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of us have been paying $60K per year for HS, so paying $75K per year for college isn't exactly a huge change.

And plenty of us (at all income levels) have been saving for college, so we can afford 70-90k per year. As long as you make $200k+ you should be able to save and afford in state at a minimum without debt. But if you've been making 200-350k+ for 5+ years you could have saved for 90K+ if you wanted to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a SAHM for 12 years. We were fine during that time, but we were not able to save much at all for college. We always knew we would have to pay for college as we went and after. In the end, we will have had at least one kid in college for 10 years! They all go to a state college, so nothing fancy. We qualify for PSLF, so by the time we hit 120 payments, we will have paid nowhere near what we would have up front. So this might have ended up being the more financially sound route after all. This is partially luck - because of the covid pause, we have credit for WAY more payments than we’ve actually made. A huge chunk of our loans will be forgiven after only 5 years of payments.

If we had spent those years saving for college, we would not have been able to go on all the vacations and do all the fun things as a family. So basically, we chose to be more liberal with our finances while our kids were young rather than scrimp and save during those years so that we could have better cash flow after they left home.

Was this the smartest decision? Maybe not, especially with the current situation. Keep in mind that we had no idea back then that this country would elect freaking Donald Trump twice and that he would get his kicks by screwing with the finances of every American. Who could have foreseen that? Things are tight right now. But I have no regrets! Kids are only little once, and I am glad we lived our best lives during that time.

So you could have saved more--life is about choices. You were a SAHM--so that is a choice (one I made as well). You could have returned to work when kids were in ES, you could have taken cheaper vacations, etc. you chose not to save for college so now your kids have to live with that. It's not others problem to fund you when you had options

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be the most out of touch thread on DCUM. And that’s saying something!

I know. It’s why so few are shocked that the op just figured this out. Instead they’re all patting themselves on the back for saving $300k per kid.

If you live in a small town or suburb in most of America your family home probably cost $350k 10 years ago (except the 10 major metro areas) and your family with 2-4 kids survives on a hhi of around $80k. If mom or dad went to college it was a in state public. There isn’t $500 a month per kid to sock away in a 529. And even if there was, the prevailing culture there is that it’s the parents job to get the kids through high school…after that they’re on their own. The dmv is a weird place.

It's not just the DMV. It's any well educated, UMC area around the country.

I feel like the other ones I’ve lived jn (Seattle, San Diego, Dallas) the umc people have a better understanding of the lives of the people around them. The dmv can feel like the capital city in the hunger games.

This is definately true!
Scum and San Fran area were the entire places to live where everyone is keeping up with the Jones and it's so competitive. Seattle is not like that at all and it's refreshing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a SAHM for 12 years. We were fine during that time, but we were not able to save much at all for college. We always knew we would have to pay for college as we went and after. In the end, we will have had at least one kid in college for 10 years! They all go to a state college, so nothing fancy. We qualify for PSLF, so by the time we hit 120 payments, we will have paid nowhere near what we would have up front. So this might have ended up being the more financially sound route after all. This is partially luck - because of the covid pause, we have credit for WAY more payments than we’ve actually made. A huge chunk of our loans will be forgiven after only 5 years of payments.

If we had spent those years saving for college, we would not have been able to go on all the vacations and do all the fun things as a family. So basically, we chose to be more liberal with our finances while our kids were young rather than scrimp and save during those years so that we could have better cash flow after they left home.

Was this the smartest decision? Maybe not, especially with the current situation. Keep in mind that we had no idea back then that this country would elect freaking Donald Trump twice and that he would get his kicks by screwing with the finances of every American. Who could have foreseen that? Things are tight right now. But I have no regrets! Kids are only little once, and I am glad we lived our best lives during that time.

? so taxpayers are footing the bill for your fun life in the early years?

Yes because our government decided that people who dedicate their lives to public service deserve to have this break. Dh has been in public service for 35 years. I have been since I went back to work 10 years ago and for 3 years before being a SAHM. The covid benefit was compensation for navigating this unprecedented situation - having to pull our oldest from campus, move her out of the dorm suddenly, buy her a laptop that was compatible with university software, being charged full college tuition for a kid sitting in her room taking class on a laptop, etc. Money was wasted on class supplies and dorm essentials that she never needed again.

? we all had kids do that during covid