Is GPA the most important?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Yes - this is it. We've been told this many times.

Mind you, both my kids were 3.8uw - one had only 1 T20 options; the other had 6 T20 and 3 WL. The latter had some of the best LOR the CCO had seen. DC was a 3.8uw kid - but was the helper, the planner, stepped into to co-teach sessions, volunteered in emails over the summer with the teacher. Was a visible community leader - the HOS cried when handing DC diploma. You can't fake that.
That kind of kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Pretty crappy teacher to write such a crappy letter. The teacher was likely bitter that the student had challenged them in class!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Pretty crappy teacher to write such a crappy letter. The teacher was likely bitter that the student had challenged them in class!

You really don't understand this process, do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Pretty crappy teacher to write such a crappy letter. The teacher was likely bitter that the student had challenged them in class!

You are why teachers are leaving the profession in droves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Pretty crappy teacher to write such a crappy letter. The teacher was likely bitter that the student had challenged them in class!

You are why teachers are leaving the profession in droves.

Because they’re insecure and don’t like being challenged?

[Anonymous]

I am really sorry for the OP and their disappointment. However, given that every admission office presentation talks about it's "holistic process", gpa has never been the determining factor. So many variables influenced outcomes, some you can control (gpa, rigor, EC, having a differentiated profile and an aligned and smartly chosen intended major, etc.) and some you cannot control (institutional priorities, preference for athletes/donors). I agree with a pp about importance of teacher recs - I think a great teacher rec can give a strong boost, especially when coming from a well regarded magnate or private school. My smart, kind and collaborative kid had several great teachers. They knew my kid well and I am pretty sure their rec helped my kid a lot! There are so many qualified and amazing kids. Having strong stats is just the baseline. But when seeking highly selective colleges, you need to stand out in a positive way. It's a bit of a game but i learned a lot from this site and other resources and was able to guide my kid's accordingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Pretty crappy teacher to write such a crappy letter. The teacher was likely bitter that the student had challenged them in class!

Maybe the kid was an unlikable jerk, and was a net negative to the overall environment because of their cutthroat nature. Why should that student be given an advantage over someone who actually made the school a better place?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Yes - this is it. We've been told this many times.

Mind you, both my kids were 3.8uw - one had only 1 T20 options; the other had 6 T20 and 3 WL. The latter had some of the best LOR the CCO had seen. DC was a 3.8uw kid - but was the helper, the planner, stepped into to co-teach sessions, volunteered in emails over the summer with the teacher. Was a visible community leader - the HOS cried when handing DC diploma. You can't fake that.
That kind of kid.

Our Pvt HS class had two kids who were close to 1600, 4.0 weighted. Both of them were not nice kids. They would make fun of other kids for being slightly worse in a challenging math class, or were rude to the lunch servers, etc., dismissive of their teachers. But both brilliant kids.

My child, who is now at an Ivy, was in all of the classes with them, and did really well, just not quite as good as them in some of the classes. My kid was was loved by his teachers, many of whom he still keeps in touch with, one of whom he texts when he is having a tough time with things in college. They are friends. His teachers told him they were going to write him a great LOR, and that they would do anything to help get into the college he wanted.

The other kids were not nice kids. Neither of them got into ivies. But they did get into good schools. The one kid, who was valedictorian, in his speech acknowledged that he didn't get the most out of his high school experience because he didn't fully embrace the friendships that were available to him. He said he was going to make an effort in college to change his approach to others and not just focus on acing every test. It was actually an inspiring speech, especially for me who tends to be that way with my personality (my kids are more like my wife, thankfully).

[Anonymous]

Your high school teacher knows when you took the calculus class during the summer break so that when you take it the following school year you already know the material. They are not impressed by that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are still not able to comprehend that with a mid-year GPA from TJ 4.4X, SAT close to 1600, very good ECs, my child got rejected from all Ivies applied, waitlisted in a few T20 schools mostly private and UVA. We are trying to understand what went wrong. Really bothering us for the last couple of months how this can happen with this profile. Was GPA too low?. Did rigor matter at all?. They take the hardest courses but kids from other schools get into T20 schools with less grade or rigor.

Ivies hate TJ. Sorry. Don't shot the messenger. It is what it is.

There is some of this too. Reputation for being grinders and cheaters. I assume that teacher recs mean a LOT.

Every kid from our pvt high school that got into Ivy+ were well liked kids who added a lot to the community. Not just "volunteered at xyz", but at their actual high school. Tutors, Peer Counselors, etc. All of them had good personalities and were funny and happy. The recs, I think are huge missing piece. Two hypothetical examples of LORs for to students. Student #1 4.0 UW SAT 1580; Student #2 3.8UW SAT 1520:

"Student #1 is a very good student. They are always well prepared for class. They consistently are among the top performers in the entire school. Grades are very important to them, and they make sure that they always work hard to ensure that their grades are the best in the class. Indeed, they have the highest grades of any student that I have taught, and I have taught this class for 10 years. They are intensely focused on academic succes, and will work tirelessly to achieve their goals"

"Student #2 was one of my favorite students of all time. In addition to being one of my best students, I always looked forward to hearing them speak in class and their participation was always welcomed by the other students. Their questions were always very good, and sometimes wound up challenging the way I thought about the material that I presented. When I think of student #2, I think about her great smile and her funny quips that made the class enjoyable for other students. She was never disruptive, but always had a great sense of humor that lightened up a class that had an intense workload sometimes. During study halls, I would often see student #2 helping her other classmates work through difficult homework assignments. She was a valued member of our community, she had great school spirit and she will be missed greatly. Obviously her grades speak for themselves, and I don't doubt that she will be successful at the most academically rigorous colleges in the country."

Who do you want in your student body at Yale?

Yes - this is it. We've been told this many times.

Mind you, both my kids were 3.8uw - one had only 1 T20 options; the other had 6 T20 and 3 WL. The latter had some of the best LOR the CCO had seen. DC was a 3.8uw kid - but was the helper, the planner, stepped into to co-teach sessions, volunteered in emails over the summer with the teacher. Was a visible community leader - the HOS cried when handing DC diploma. You can't fake that.
That kind of kid.

Our Pvt HS class had two kids who were close to 1600, 4.0 weighted. Both of them were not nice kids. They would make fun of other kids for being slightly worse in a challenging math class, or were rude to the lunch servers, etc., dismissive of their teachers. But both brilliant kids.

My child, who is now at an Ivy, was in all of the classes with them, and did really well, just not quite as good as them in some of the classes. My kid was was loved by his teachers, many of whom he still keeps in touch with, one of whom he texts when he is having a tough time with things in college. They are friends. His teachers told him they were going to write him a great LOR, and that they would do anything to help get into the college he wanted.

The other kids were not nice kids. Neither of them got into ivies. But they did get into good schools. The one kid, who was valedictorian, in his speech acknowledged that he didn't get the most out of his high school experience because he didn't fully embrace the friendships that were available to him. He said he was going to make an effort in college to change his approach to others and not just focus on acing every test. It was actually an inspiring speech, especially for me who tends to be that way with my personality (my kids are more like my wife, thankfully).

I’m always impressed by how AO can recognize character and compassion.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

I’d be curious to know where they applied early to?

This is the kind of kid that should’ve ED1/ED2 to WashU or Emory or Tufts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

I’d be curious to know where they applied early to?

This is the kind of kid that should’ve ED1/ED2 to WashU or Emory or Tufts.

ED1/2 to WashU would have been a smart strategy. I’m surprised that the parents were so surprised by the Ivy rejections! I think their kid got into a couple of schools in the Emory/Tufts range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

I’d be curious to know where they applied early to?

This is the kind of kid that should’ve ED1/ED2 to WashU or Emory or Tufts.

ED1/2 to WashU would have been a smart strategy. I’m surprised that the parents were so surprised by the Ivy rejections! I think their kid got into a couple of schools in the Emory/Tufts range.

I would have ED1 Dartmouth or Cornell or Vanderbilt.
ED2 WashU or Rice.

What was the major?
Family probably thought the 1600 carried more weight than it did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the “letter quality vs academic performance” argument applies to the OP’s case. Her kid likely had a GPA lower than 4.4 at the end of his junior year, which translated into somewhere between top 30% to top 40% of their class at TJ? Unless their letters and/or ECs are spectacular, not getting into an Ivy or T20 is actually not surprising.

LOL. No matter how many people tell you that academic performance is not a ranked system at Ivies, you refuse to believe them. Claim "racism" and move on. ACADEMICS IS A QUALIFIER it is not the determining factor. Listen to the Yale podcast. Listen to the Darmouth Podcast. Listen to the Columbia AO interview. They all say the same thing. Academics and test scores demonstrate you can do the work, after you are qualified you need to have a lot more. The qualifier is ROUGHLY an SAT of 1450 and a GPA (with max rigor) of 3.7ish. Yale, Dartmouth and Columbia all said the same thing, practically verbatim. And no, it isn't about keeping Asians out, or Italians, or Russians. It is about having kids who align with institutional priorities and enhance the community and the long-term standing of the institution.

So, having 100% math robot test takers isn't something they want. They want a certain number of actors/musicians, supreme court litigators, federal judges, olympic gold medalists, NHL superstars, senators, governors, hedge fund managers, high school english teachers, social workers, world bank heads, UN delegates, presidential candidates, novelists, artists, engineers, and tech people. It's just sad to see people tell you how the world is, and you go back to talking about stats stats stats, ranking rankings rankings, discrimination discrimination discrimination, SAT SAT SAT.

It is completely bonkers to me. These parents are ignorant with a chip on their shoulder. Yale isn't the India Institute of Technology. It's not a statistics focused institution, it never has been, and it will never be. If you don't like it, then don't apply there or the other ivies.