People who don't save for retirement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people who don’t make enough to live supposed to do? It’s a privilege to save for retirement. It really is.

Asian American here. I was a child of immigrants. DH and I support my parents and his mom. We know many adult Asian Americans supporting their elderly parents. It is actually quite common.

Yes, because they did not have generational wealth and they worked their fingers off to pay for their childrem's education in a new country. So, the AA parents did not save for their retirement instead they poured everything into their children. Hopefully, you will save some for yourself too as well as leave generational wealth for your kids. Afterall, your leg-up is greater than their leg-up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to manage a couple of people who worked way too long because they had to. One issue affecting both of them was having to give half their pension and/or SS to an ex after divorce. I think this affects many people and leaves them with much less in old age.

SS is never given to an ex, at least not directly.
Maybe it’s used to cover their settlement agreement amount but they need to go to court and review it.
Workaholics or those who are afraid to become irrelevant if they stop working often use it as an excuse.
They either “have to pay their ex wife” or “have to support their young adult kids”.

Same pp here,
What I meant was that SS benefit from your ex never comes out of your ex’s pocket. It’s always the SSA that pays it

It reduces what they will get in SS payments so in a sense they are "paying" but it's also sour grapes.

It doesn’t reduce what your ex receives. It’s a formula. If you were married for more than 10 years you can calculate your social security based on either 50% of what your ex receives or what your social security number is. Whichever amount is higher. You aren’t getting their money. It’s just how the formula works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people who don’t make enough to live supposed to do? It’s a privilege to save for retirement. It really is.

Asian American here. I was a child of immigrants. DH and I support my parents and his mom. We know many adult Asian Americans supporting their elderly parents. It is actually quite common.

Do you feel resentful about this? Genuinely curious.

No, I’m not resentful at all. They moved to this country and did the best they could. I always had housing and food. It isn’t like they spent frivolously and wasted money. They just never had money.

I’m surprised at Americans who seem to be able to turn their backs on their family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people who don’t make enough to live supposed to do? It’s a privilege to save for retirement. It really is.

Asian American here. I was a child of immigrants. DH and I support my parents and his mom. We know many adult Asian Americans supporting their elderly parents. It is actually quite common.

Do you feel resentful about this? Genuinely curious.

No, I’m not resentful at all. They moved to this country and did the best they could. I always had housing and food. It isn’t like they spent frivolously and wasted money. They just never had money.

I’m surprised at Americans who seem to be able to turn their backs on their family.

Psst. You're an American. Not all Americans turn their back on their family.

My family has been here since the mayflower. I work my ass off to make sure I can care for them if they need it. My mom has needed help to a small extent. My dad has been independent. And we've helped other family to small degrees. But I know (and my mom knows) that I always have their backs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people who don’t make enough to live supposed to do? It’s a privilege to save for retirement. It really is.

Asian American here. I was a child of immigrants. DH and I support my parents and his mom. We know many adult Asian Americans supporting their elderly parents. It is actually quite common.

Do you feel resentful about this? Genuinely curious.

No, I’m not resentful at all. They moved to this country and did the best they could. I always had housing and food. It isn’t like they spent frivolously and wasted money. They just never had money.

I’m surprised at Americans who seem to be able to turn their backs on their family.

Psst. You're an American. Not all Americans turn their back on their family.

My family has been here since the mayflower. I work my ass off to make sure I can care for them if they need it. My mom has needed help to a small extent. My dad has been independent. And we've helped other family to small degrees. But I know (and my mom knows) that I always have their backs.

At this point in time I hope for your sake that your family members who came over as immigrants on the Mayflower have branched out so your whole family didn’t come over on the boat together. That would be some massive inbreeding.

And it’s surprising to me that people I know have turned their backs on family members who got old. Really sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people who don’t make enough to live supposed to do? It’s a privilege to save for retirement. It really is.

Asian American here. I was a child of immigrants. DH and I support my parents and his mom. We know many adult Asian Americans supporting their elderly parents. It is actually quite common.

Do you feel resentful about this? Genuinely curious.

No, I’m not resentful at all. They moved to this country and did the best they could. I always had housing and food. It isn’t like they spent frivolously and wasted money. They just never had money.

I’m surprised at Americans who seem to be able to turn their backs on their family.

Psst. You're an American. Not all Americans turn their back on their family.

My family has been here since the mayflower. I work my ass off to make sure I can care for them if they need it. My mom has needed help to a small extent. My dad has been independent. And we've helped other family to small degrees. But I know (and my mom knows) that I always have their backs.

NP-I'm not from the US but I don't feel like I want to have my parents' or in-laws' back: they did not have my back as an adult in any way so why should I have theirs? There's something really not right about having to be fully independent at 18 in all ways and then still have to care for people in their old age as you yourself never had help. And as a parent I feel even more strongly about this: support should flow down to kids, not up to parents. I would feel like an absolute failure and bad person if my adult kids had to financially worry about me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people who don’t make enough to live supposed to do? It’s a privilege to save for retirement. It really is.

Asian American here. I was a child of immigrants. DH and I support my parents and his mom. We know many adult Asian Americans supporting their elderly parents. It is actually quite common.

Do you feel resentful about this? Genuinely curious.

No, I’m not resentful at all. They moved to this country and did the best they could. I always had housing and food. It isn’t like they spent frivolously and wasted money. They just never had money.

I’m surprised at Americans who seem to be able to turn their backs on their family.

Psst. You're an American. Not all Americans turn their back on their family.

My family has been here since the mayflower. I work my ass off to make sure I can care for them if they need it. My mom has needed help to a small extent. My dad has been independent. And we've helped other family to small degrees. But I know (and my mom knows) that I always have their backs.

NP-I'm not from the US but I don't feel like I want to have my parents' or in-laws' back: they did not have my back as an adult in any way so why should I have theirs? There's something really not right about having to be fully independent at 18 in all ways and then still have to care for people in their old age as you yourself never had help. And as a parent I feel even more strongly about this: support should flow down to kids, not up to parents. I would feel like an absolute failure and bad person if my adult kids had to financially worry about me.

Yeah I can totally understand this.

My issue is not that my parents haven't been supportive, they have, but they've also made some poor financial decisions over the years that led them to having minimal savings. Even now it seems like they are living above their means- they sold their house because despite living there 30 years had not paid off the mortgage due to multiple refinancings, and now rent a "luxury" townshouse that I doubt they can afford longterm. But of course my mom still wanted the full basement, the garage, etc. They both still work part-time in their 70s so I uess it works for now but I'm sure the days are numbered there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people who don’t make enough to live supposed to do? It’s a privilege to save for retirement. It really is.

Asian American here. I was a child of immigrants. DH and I support my parents and his mom. We know many adult Asian Americans supporting their elderly parents. It is actually quite common.

Do you feel resentful about this? Genuinely curious.

No, I’m not resentful at all. They moved to this country and did the best they could. I always had housing and food. It isn’t like they spent frivolously and wasted money. They just never had money.

I’m surprised at Americans who seem to be able to turn their backs on their family.

Psst. You're an American. Not all Americans turn their back on their family.

My family has been here since the mayflower. I work my ass off to make sure I can care for them if they need it. My mom has needed help to a small extent. My dad has been independent. And we've helped other family to small degrees. But I know (and my mom knows) that I always have their backs.

NP-I'm not from the US but I don't feel like I want to have my parents' or in-laws' back: they did not have my back as an adult in any way so why should I have theirs? There's something really not right about having to be fully independent at 18 in all ways and then still have to care for people in their old age as you yourself never had help. And as a parent I feel even more strongly about this: support should flow down to kids, not up to parents. I would feel like an absolute failure and bad person if my adult kids had to financially worry about me.

Yeah I can totally understand this.

My issue is not that my parents haven't been supportive, they have, but they've also made some poor financial decisions over the years that led them to having minimal savings. Even now it seems like they are living above their means- they sold their house because despite living there 30 years had not paid off the mortgage due to multiple refinancings, and now rent a "luxury" townshouse that I doubt they can afford longterm. But of course my mom still wanted the full basement, the garage, etc. They both still work part-time in their 70s so I uess it works for now but I'm sure the days are numbered there.

My in-laws are exactly like that: sold their house (which they had a downpayment for thanks to fil's parents) which they had refinanced, stayed very complacent as renters in a great apartment and had to move three times since, each time for more and more money because they only want luxury. Both of them still work as well. I absolutely do not want to be on the hook for their bad decisions when we ourselves made a lot of sacrifices to be financially stable. I really don't understand the way they play ostrich with finances. They recently adopted a dog and wanted to pay as little as possible to adopt, but ended up getting a dog with medical needs and expensive meds. They thought: "cheap dog now, great!" instead of "how much is this dog going to cost long term?" and even inquiring about the cost of the meds. It's maddening how they live their lives without thinking of the future. I would not care if I didn't feel we are their plan B.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be working until I die. I can't afford to retire. That's for rich people.

Same. I live paycheck to paycheck. I'm single and don't have the benefit of a second income. It doesn't leave much to save for retirement.

Find a roommate and split expenses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be working until I die. I can't afford to retire. That's for rich people.

Same. I live paycheck to paycheck. I'm single and don't have the benefit of a second income. It doesn't leave much to save for retirement.

Find a roommate and split expenses.

Beyond age 24/25, who wants a roommate? It can create so many issues. You sign a 1 year lease, they want to move at the end, so you have to relocate (and/or find new roommates) to a 1 bedroom, you need at least a few days of overlap, you have to pay movers or do the work yourself, etc. If you have to pay for 1 extra month because of moving apartments, you have negated the savings of having roommates.

My kid has seen it happen with too many of their friends, so they happily pay the premium for their own 1 bedroom and space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be working until I die. I can't afford to retire. That's for rich people.

Same. I live paycheck to paycheck. I'm single and don't have the benefit of a second income. It doesn't leave much to save for retirement.

Find a roommate and split expenses.

Beyond age 24/25, who wants a roommate? It can create so many issues. You sign a 1 year lease, they want to move at the end, so you have to relocate (and/or find new roommates) to a 1 bedroom, you need at least a few days of overlap, you have to pay movers or do the work yourself, etc. If you have to pay for 1 extra month because of moving apartments, you have negated the savings of having roommates.

My kid has seen it happen with too many of their friends, so they happily pay the premium for their own 1 bedroom and space.

I rented a room in a group house until I was 32. I saved a lot of money that way. The only reason I moved out was when my grandmother died and left me her condo. We all had individual leases with our landlord so there were no issues with people moving out and needing to move or pay their portion of the rent. DCUMs are such snobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know many immigrants who came to the U.S. later in life to be with their adult kids.
They have section 8, SSI and Medicaid. Their adult kids help them with food and other essentials. They manage to save part of their SSI and their kids usually inherit a bunch of cash.

The worst situation is when someone works all their life and gets SS that is too high for Medicaid and other benefits but not enough to get by. I feel bad for Americans who are in this predicament.

l don’t understand your statement about the worst situation. Don’t retirees 65+ regardless of income get Medicare? If someone chooses to retire early they didn’t “work all their life” - why do you feel bad for them?

NP. The PP didn't articulate it well, but there are a lot of retirees who have too many assets to qualify for Medicaid (which is different than Medicare) but need long-term nursing home care. These people need to spend down all their assets until they qualify for Medicaid. Working hard all your life to amass modest savings to then fork it over to the nursing home is painful. There are ways to get around this if you plan ahead of time, but most people don't.

Maybe I didn’t articulate it well but you are talking about something entirely different, the assets. I am talking about income, like monthly SS benefit.
Assets are another problem but it’s easier to solve, just deed your house to your kids while still healthy, done.
However your ss benefit is what it is.

If you deed your house to your kids now, the tax basis is its current value, whereas if you place it in a trust the tax cost basis will be its value on date of death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be working until I die. I can't afford to retire. That's for rich people.

Same. I live paycheck to paycheck. I'm single and don't have the benefit of a second income. It doesn't leave much to save for retirement.

Find a roommate and split expenses.

Beyond age 24/25, who wants a roommate? It can create so many issues. You sign a 1 year lease, they want to move at the end, so you have to relocate (and/or find new roommates) to a 1 bedroom, you need at least a few days of overlap, you have to pay movers or do the work yourself, etc. If you have to pay for 1 extra month because of moving apartments, you have negated the savings of having roommates.

My kid has seen it happen with too many of their friends, so they happily pay the premium for their own 1 bedroom and space.

I rented a room in a group house until I was 32. I saved a lot of money that way. The only reason I moved out was when my grandmother died and left me her condo. We all had individual leases with our landlord so there were no issues with people moving out and needing to move or pay their portion of the rent. DCUMs are such snobs.

Outside of college housing, there are not many places where landlords rent "rooms" to individuals with each having their own lease. The scenario I described above is real and can end up costing you $2K+, which negates the savings of having a roommate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know many immigrants who came to the U.S. later in life to be with their adult kids.
They have section 8, SSI and Medicaid. Their adult kids help them with food and other essentials. They manage to save part of their SSI and their kids usually inherit a bunch of cash.

The worst situation is when someone works all their life and gets SS that is too high for Medicaid and other benefits but not enough to get by. I feel bad for Americans who are in this predicament.

l don’t understand your statement about the worst situation. Don’t retirees 65+ regardless of income get Medicare? If someone chooses to retire early they didn’t “work all their life” - why do you feel bad for them?

NP. The PP didn't articulate it well, but there are a lot of retirees who have too many assets to qualify for Medicaid (which is different than Medicare) but need long-term nursing home care. These people need to spend down all their assets until they qualify for Medicaid. Working hard all your life to amass modest savings to then fork it over to the nursing home is painful. There are ways to get around this if you plan ahead of time, but most people don't.

Maybe I didn’t articulate it well but you are talking about something entirely different, the assets. I am talking about income, like monthly SS benefit.
Assets are another problem but it’s easier to solve, just deed your house to your kids while still healthy, done.
However your ss benefit is what it is.

If you deed your house to your kids now, the tax basis is its current value, whereas if you place it in a trust the tax cost basis will be its value on date of death.

Yes, or you can do a "Transfer on Death" deed to do the step-up in basis without a trust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people who don’t make enough to live supposed to do? It’s a privilege to save for retirement. It really is.

Asian American here. I was a child of immigrants. DH and I support my parents and his mom. We know many adult Asian Americans supporting their elderly parents. It is actually quite common.

Do you feel resentful about this? Genuinely curious.

No, I’m not resentful at all. They moved to this country and did the best they could. I always had housing and food. It isn’t like they spent frivolously and wasted money. They just never had money.

I’m surprised at Americans who seem to be able to turn their backs on their family.

Psst. You're an American. Not all Americans turn their back on their family.

My family has been here since the mayflower. I work my ass off to make sure I can care for them if they need it. My mom has needed help to a small extent. My dad has been independent. And we've helped other family to small degrees. But I know (and my mom knows) that I always have their backs.

NP-I'm not from the US but I don't feel like I want to have my parents' or in-laws' back: they did not have my back as an adult in any way so why should I have theirs? There's something really not right about having to be fully independent at 18 in all ways and then still have to care for people in their old age as you yourself never had help. And as a parent I feel even more strongly about this: support should flow down to kids, not up to parents. I would feel like an absolute failure and bad person if my adult kids had to financially worry about me.

Yeah I can totally understand this.

My issue is not that my parents haven't been supportive, they have, but they've also made some poor financial decisions over the years that led them to having minimal savings. Even now it seems like they are living above their means- they sold their house because despite living there 30 years had not paid off the mortgage due to multiple refinancings, and now rent a "luxury" townshouse that I doubt they can afford longterm. But of course my mom still wanted the full basement, the garage, etc. They both still work part-time in their 70s so I uess it works for now but I'm sure the days are numbered there.

My in-laws are exactly like that: sold their house (which they had a downpayment for thanks to fil's parents) which they had refinanced, stayed very complacent as renters in a great apartment and had to move three times since, each time for more and more money because they only want luxury. Both of them still work as well. I absolutely do not want to be on the hook for their bad decisions when we ourselves made a lot of sacrifices to be financially stable. I really don't understand the way they play ostrich with finances. They recently adopted a dog and wanted to pay as little as possible to adopt, but ended up getting a dog with medical needs and expensive meds. They thought: "cheap dog now, great!" instead of "how much is this dog going to cost long term?" and even inquiring about the cost of the meds. It's maddening how they live their lives without thinking of the future. I would not care if I didn't feel we are their plan B.

This is it right there in bold for me. I do not want to "pay" for anyone else's bad money choices. That is on them. And, yes, I am watching what my family member is doing with his money right now.

Presently, I don't say a word unless asked but I am watching. When things eventually go south as they very well may, I will remember how they (mis)handled their money and will not step in to help them. If I have no influence on how they are spending their money now, I will not step in with my money later.