COVIDs Continuing Impact on Reading Scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am baffled by this. I have a 2nd grader. She's a terrific reader. She missed the school closures of Covid so got to have normal PK and K even. She was reading on her own by the summer before K (just sounding out words) and then got good, phonics-based reading instruction in K and 1st and it really took off. Her preschool was play based and that was great for her. She was actually in a Title 1 for PK-1st (we're in DC with universal PK so she did PK at at a public elementary) and now is at a non-T1.

My perception is that her cohort is full of strong readers. We live in a MC/UMC neighborhood. There are plenty of bookstores and libraries here. Most people are college educated and the adults read (both to kids and on their own). Literacy is definitely valued as part of the culture here. There are also kids who struggle but the schools and parents are getting them support they need for LDs and other issues.

I do think Covid had some lasting effects on this cohort of kids, because I think Covid and other forces changed our culture permanently -- we never really returned to a pre-Covid existence. But I don't see it in the academic performance. The kids I know seem fine.

Not saying the studies are wrong, it's just not reflected in my experience at all. And we aren't wealthy outliers -- no tutors, most families can't afford nannies or a SAHP, pretty standard in terms of childcare and extracurriculars for kids, schools are good but not considered the best in the area or anything. They are "good enough" schools for people at our SES level who can't afford private or to live in very expensive school boundaries.

So I don't get it, but I don't think it's just Covid. Because if it was, you'd see the effects everywhere and I don't see them here.

The reading issues are more strongly correlated with Lucy Calkins and the Whole Language crap. More became aware of reading gaps during Covid, but NAEP reading test results had been poor even before Covid.

PP just above was lucky DC received Phonics-centered instruction, because many studies have shown that is what works for all kids. (dyslexic kids benefit most from Orton-Gillingham which itself is Phonics based).

Listen to the "Sold a Story" podcast and then weep. An entire generation of teachers and students were mis-taught.

This doesn’t and sense because Lucy calkins was more popular before Covid. If that were the cause, then reading scores should have improved as more states abandoned it.

Lucy Calkins/LLI/Queuing - call it whatever you like - was still widely used at the onset of Covid, even though strong data had come out against it back in 2005. GWB wanted to bag it, but then 9/11 happened and the Lucy etc. al lobby fought hard against it and it was abandoned. Reading scores went down in correlation with loss of phonics. It was not Covid. Covid just shed sunlight on it.

I'm in a 10/10 GS public elementary and I can confirm that we use Lucy Calkins. The reading specialist and K-2nd teachers use and suggest 3 cueing. I had DD meet with a different specialist from a different district and she 1) said DD didn't have any issues reading and was actually above grade level 2) talked about leveled readers and 3 cueing. I thanked her and went home, and immediately rolled my sleeves up and taught her how to read myself. She absolutely had issues with reading! She was guessing words rather than sounding things out phonetically. She was actually TAUGHT to guess. That's still wild to me, thinking about it 2 years later.

Yup. My kids are the lucky ones who learned in spite of LLI. They did struggle and I helped them at home (without a formal program, but did teach them to sound out words) and thankfully that was enough for them. I feel so terrible for the kids who are now in MS/HS or older who could be strong readers and just never received the right instruction. Their families trusted the school and the school let them down.

From what I can tell, the families do not suspect the school at all, even after the school has failed them. The school also has no idea. Usually the kids get remedial help at some point (which is a mixed bag), and by middle school parents are pushing to get them accommodations like extra time. Obvious there are LD kids with accurate diagnoses who need accommodations, but I don't believe it's in the numbers we are seeing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am baffled by this. I have a 2nd grader. She's a terrific reader. She missed the school closures of Covid so got to have normal PK and K even. She was reading on her own by the summer before K (just sounding out words) and then got good, phonics-based reading instruction in K and 1st and it really took off. Her preschool was play based and that was great for her. She was actually in a Title 1 for PK-1st (we're in DC with universal PK so she did PK at at a public elementary) and now is at a non-T1.

My perception is that her cohort is full of strong readers. We live in a MC/UMC neighborhood. There are plenty of bookstores and libraries here. Most people are college educated and the adults read (both to kids and on their own). Literacy is definitely valued as part of the culture here. There are also kids who struggle but the schools and parents are getting them support they need for LDs and other issues.

I do think Covid had some lasting effects on this cohort of kids, because I think Covid and other forces changed our culture permanently -- we never really returned to a pre-Covid existence. But I don't see it in the academic performance. The kids I know seem fine.

Not saying the studies are wrong, it's just not reflected in my experience at all. And we aren't wealthy outliers -- no tutors, most families can't afford nannies or a SAHP, pretty standard in terms of childcare and extracurriculars for kids, schools are good but not considered the best in the area or anything. They are "good enough" schools for people at our SES level who can't afford private or to live in very expensive school boundaries.

So I don't get it, but I don't think it's just Covid. Because if it was, you'd see the effects everywhere and I don't see them here.

The reading issues are more strongly correlated with Lucy Calkins and the Whole Language crap. More became aware of reading gaps during Covid, but NAEP reading test results had been poor even before Covid.

PP just above was lucky DC received Phonics-centered instruction, because many studies have shown that is what works for all kids. (dyslexic kids benefit most from Orton-Gillingham which itself is Phonics based).

Listen to the "Sold a Story" podcast and then weep. An entire generation of teachers and students were mis-taught.

This doesn’t and sense because Lucy calkins was more popular before Covid. If that were the cause, then reading scores should have improved as more states abandoned it.

Lucy Calkins/LLI/Queuing - call it whatever you like - was still widely used at the onset of Covid, even though strong data had come out against it back in 2005. GWB wanted to bag it, but then 9/11 happened and the Lucy etc. al lobby fought hard against it and it was abandoned. Reading scores went down in correlation with loss of phonics. It was not Covid. Covid just shed sunlight on it.

I'm in a 10/10 GS public elementary and I can confirm that we use Lucy Calkins. The reading specialist and K-2nd teachers use and suggest 3 cueing. I had DD meet with a different specialist from a different district and she 1) said DD didn't have any issues reading and was actually above grade level 2) talked about leveled readers and 3 cueing. I thanked her and went home, and immediately rolled my sleeves up and taught her how to read myself. She absolutely had issues with reading! She was guessing words rather than sounding things out phonetically. She was actually TAUGHT to guess. That's still wild to me, thinking about it 2 years later.

Yup. My kids are the lucky ones who learned in spite of LLI. They did struggle and I helped them at home (without a formal program, but did teach them to sound out words) and thankfully that was enough for them. I feel so terrible for the kids who are now in MS/HS or older who could be strong readers and just never received the right instruction. Their families trusted the school and the school let them down.

From what I can tell, the families do not suspect the school at all, even after the school has failed them. The school also has no idea. Usually the kids get remedial help at some point (which is a mixed bag), and by middle school parents are pushing to get them accommodations like extra time. Obvious there are LD kids with accurate diagnoses who need accommodations, but I don't believe it's in the numbers we are seeing.

Yes there are lots of teachers at my school who STILL get defensive and insist that Lucy Calkins/LLI/Balanced Literacy were great and got a “bad rap.” Parents have no idea their kid was never given explicit phonics instruction.

Parents if your kid is older than 7, chances are they were never given explicit phonics instruction in northern Virginia. If they struggle to read, this is likely why.

[Anonymous]

Kids don’t even have textbooks. The “textbooks” are all digital in the Google Classroom and have an audio option. They can just have any text literally read to them by the computer. This is how teens that are barely literate can make it through high school and end up in college. Schools have taken away the need to learn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am baffled by this. I have a 2nd grader. She's a terrific reader. She missed the school closures of Covid so got to have normal PK and K even. She was reading on her own by the summer before K (just sounding out words) and then got good, phonics-based reading instruction in K and 1st and it really took off. Her preschool was play based and that was great for her. She was actually in a Title 1 for PK-1st (we're in DC with universal PK so she did PK at at a public elementary) and now is at a non-T1.

My perception is that her cohort is full of strong readers. We live in a MC/UMC neighborhood. There are plenty of bookstores and libraries here. Most people are college educated and the adults read (both to kids and on their own). Literacy is definitely valued as part of the culture here. There are also kids who struggle but the schools and parents are getting them support they need for LDs and other issues.

I do think Covid had some lasting effects on this cohort of kids, because I think Covid and other forces changed our culture permanently -- we never really returned to a pre-Covid existence. But I don't see it in the academic performance. The kids I know seem fine.

Not saying the studies are wrong, it's just not reflected in my experience at all. And we aren't wealthy outliers -- no tutors, most families can't afford nannies or a SAHP, pretty standard in terms of childcare and extracurriculars for kids, schools are good but not considered the best in the area or anything. They are "good enough" schools for people at our SES level who can't afford private or to live in very expensive school boundaries.

So I don't get it, but I don't think it's just Covid. Because if it was, you'd see the effects everywhere and I don't see them here.

The reading issues are more strongly correlated with Lucy Calkins and the Whole Language crap. More became aware of reading gaps during Covid, but NAEP reading test results had been poor even before Covid.

PP just above was lucky DC received Phonics-centered instruction, because many studies have shown that is what works for all kids. (dyslexic kids benefit most from Orton-Gillingham which itself is Phonics based).

Listen to the "Sold a Story" podcast and then weep. An entire generation of teachers and students were mis-taught.

This doesn’t and sense because Lucy calkins was more popular before Covid. If that were the cause, then reading scores should have improved as more states abandoned it.

Lucy Calkins/LLI/Queuing - call it whatever you like - was still widely used at the onset of Covid, even though strong data had come out against it back in 2005. GWB wanted to bag it, but then 9/11 happened and the Lucy etc. al lobby fought hard against it and it was abandoned. Reading scores went down in correlation with loss of phonics. It was not Covid. Covid just shed sunlight on it.

I'm in a 10/10 GS public elementary and I can confirm that we use Lucy Calkins. The reading specialist and K-2nd teachers use and suggest 3 cueing. I had DD meet with a different specialist from a different district and she 1) said DD didn't have any issues reading and was actually above grade level 2) talked about leveled readers and 3 cueing. I thanked her and went home, and immediately rolled my sleeves up and taught her how to read myself. She absolutely had issues with reading! She was guessing words rather than sounding things out phonetically. She was actually TAUGHT to guess. That's still wild to me, thinking about it 2 years later.

Yup. My kids are the lucky ones who learned in spite of LLI. They did struggle and I helped them at home (without a formal program, but did teach them to sound out words) and thankfully that was enough for them. I feel so terrible for the kids who are now in MS/HS or older who could be strong readers and just never received the right instruction. Their families trusted the school and the school let them down.

From what I can tell, the families do not suspect the school at all, even after the school has failed them. The school also has no idea. Usually the kids get remedial help at some point (which is a mixed bag), and by middle school parents are pushing to get them accommodations like extra time. Obvious there are LD kids with accurate diagnoses who need accommodations, but I don't believe it's in the numbers we are seeing.

Yes there are lots of teachers at my school who STILL get defensive and insist that Lucy Calkins/LLI/Balanced Literacy were great and got a “bad rap.” Parents have no idea their kid was never given explicit phonics instruction.

Parents if your kid is older than 7, chances are they were never given explicit phonics instruction in northern Virginia. If they struggle to read, this is likely why.

This. This. This. It was an awful "curriculum" that prevented about 60% of students from learning to read well.

(Roughly 30-40% of students will learn to read at least somewhat - even if a bad pedagogical method is used).

And it is not too late to teach Phonics to a kid in upper elementary or middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am baffled by this. I have a 2nd grader. She's a terrific reader. She missed the school closures of Covid so got to have normal PK and K even. She was reading on her own by the summer before K (just sounding out words) and then got good, phonics-based reading instruction in K and 1st and it really took off. Her preschool was play based and that was great for her. She was actually in a Title 1 for PK-1st (we're in DC with universal PK so she did PK at at a public elementary) and now is at a non-T1.

My perception is that her cohort is full of strong readers. We live in a MC/UMC neighborhood. There are plenty of bookstores and libraries here. Most people are college educated and the adults read (both to kids and on their own). Literacy is definitely valued as part of the culture here. There are also kids who struggle but the schools and parents are getting them support they need for LDs and other issues.

I do think Covid had some lasting effects on this cohort of kids, because I think Covid and other forces changed our culture permanently -- we never really returned to a pre-Covid existence. But I don't see it in the academic performance. The kids I know seem fine.

Not saying the studies are wrong, it's just not reflected in my experience at all. And we aren't wealthy outliers -- no tutors, most families can't afford nannies or a SAHP, pretty standard in terms of childcare and extracurriculars for kids, schools are good but not considered the best in the area or anything. They are "good enough" schools for people at our SES level who can't afford private or to live in very expensive school boundaries.

So I don't get it, but I don't think it's just Covid. Because if it was, you'd see the effects everywhere and I don't see them here.

The reading issues are more strongly correlated with Lucy Calkins and the Whole Language crap. More became aware of reading gaps during Covid, but NAEP reading test results had been poor even before Covid.

PP just above was lucky DC received Phonics-centered instruction, because many studies have shown that is what works for all kids. (dyslexic kids benefit most from Orton-Gillingham which itself is Phonics based).

Listen to the "Sold a Story" podcast and then weep. An entire generation of teachers and students were mis-taught.

This doesn’t and sense because Lucy calkins was more popular before Covid. If that were the cause, then reading scores should have improved as more states abandoned it.

Lucy Calkins/LLI/Queuing - call it whatever you like - was still widely used at the onset of Covid, even though strong data had come out against it back in 2005. GWB wanted to bag it, but then 9/11 happened and the Lucy etc. al lobby fought hard against it and it was abandoned. Reading scores went down in correlation with loss of phonics. It was not Covid. Covid just shed sunlight on it.

I'm in a 10/10 GS public elementary and I can confirm that we use Lucy Calkins. The reading specialist and K-2nd teachers use and suggest 3 cueing. I had DD meet with a different specialist from a different district and she 1) said DD didn't have any issues reading and was actually above grade level 2) talked about leveled readers and 3 cueing. I thanked her and went home, and immediately rolled my sleeves up and taught her how to read myself. She absolutely had issues with reading! She was guessing words rather than sounding things out phonetically. She was actually TAUGHT to guess. That's still wild to me, thinking about it 2 years later.

Yup. My kids are the lucky ones who learned in spite of LLI. They did struggle and I helped them at home (without a formal program, but did teach them to sound out words) and thankfully that was enough for them. I feel so terrible for the kids who are now in MS/HS or older who could be strong readers and just never received the right instruction. Their families trusted the school and the school let them down.

From what I can tell, the families do not suspect the school at all, even after the school has failed them. The school also has no idea. Usually the kids get remedial help at some point (which is a mixed bag), and by middle school parents are pushing to get them accommodations like extra time. Obvious there are LD kids with accurate diagnoses who need accommodations, but I don't believe it's in the numbers we are seeing.

Yes there are lots of teachers at my school who STILL get defensive and insist that Lucy Calkins/LLI/Balanced Literacy were great and got a “bad rap.” Parents have no idea their kid was never given explicit phonics instruction.

Parents if your kid is older than 7, chances are they were never given explicit phonics instruction in northern Virginia. If they struggle to read, this is likely why.

Zero teachers are discussing this with parents unless they are clueless about social skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am baffled by this. I have a 2nd grader. She's a terrific reader. She missed the school closures of Covid so got to have normal PK and K even. She was reading on her own by the summer before K (just sounding out words) and then got good, phonics-based reading instruction in K and 1st and it really took off. Her preschool was play based and that was great for her. She was actually in a Title 1 for PK-1st (we're in DC with universal PK so she did PK at at a public elementary) and now is at a non-T1.

My perception is that her cohort is full of strong readers. We live in a MC/UMC neighborhood. There are plenty of bookstores and libraries here. Most people are college educated and the adults read (both to kids and on their own). Literacy is definitely valued as part of the culture here. There are also kids who struggle but the schools and parents are getting them support they need for LDs and other issues.

I do think Covid had some lasting effects on this cohort of kids, because I think Covid and other forces changed our culture permanently -- we never really returned to a pre-Covid existence. But I don't see it in the academic performance. The kids I know seem fine.

Not saying the studies are wrong, it's just not reflected in my experience at all. And we aren't wealthy outliers -- no tutors, most families can't afford nannies or a SAHP, pretty standard in terms of childcare and extracurriculars for kids, schools are good but not considered the best in the area or anything. They are "good enough" schools for people at our SES level who can't afford private or to live in very expensive school boundaries.

So I don't get it, but I don't think it's just Covid. Because if it was, you'd see the effects everywhere and I don't see them here.

The reading issues are more strongly correlated with Lucy Calkins and the Whole Language crap. More became aware of reading gaps during Covid, but NAEP reading test results had been poor even before Covid.

PP just above was lucky DC received Phonics-centered instruction, because many studies have shown that is what works for all kids. (dyslexic kids benefit most from Orton-Gillingham which itself is Phonics based).

Listen to the "Sold a Story" podcast and then weep. An entire generation of teachers and students were mis-taught.

This doesn’t and sense because Lucy calkins was more popular before Covid. If that were the cause, then reading scores should have improved as more states abandoned it.

Lucy Calkins/LLI/Queuing - call it whatever you like - was still widely used at the onset of Covid, even though strong data had come out against it back in 2005. GWB wanted to bag it, but then 9/11 happened and the Lucy etc. al lobby fought hard against it and it was abandoned. Reading scores went down in correlation with loss of phonics. It was not Covid. Covid just shed sunlight on it.

I'm in a 10/10 GS public elementary and I can confirm that we use Lucy Calkins. The reading specialist and K-2nd teachers use and suggest 3 cueing. I had DD meet with a different specialist from a different district and she 1) said DD didn't have any issues reading and was actually above grade level 2) talked about leveled readers and 3 cueing. I thanked her and went home, and immediately rolled my sleeves up and taught her how to read myself. She absolutely had issues with reading! She was guessing words rather than sounding things out phonetically. She was actually TAUGHT to guess. That's still wild to me, thinking about it 2 years later.

Yup. My kids are the lucky ones who learned in spite of LLI. They did struggle and I helped them at home (without a formal program, but did teach them to sound out words) and thankfully that was enough for them. I feel so terrible for the kids who are now in MS/HS or older who could be strong readers and just never received the right instruction. Their families trusted the school and the school let them down.

From what I can tell, the families do not suspect the school at all, even after the school has failed them. The school also has no idea. Usually the kids get remedial help at some point (which is a mixed bag), and by middle school parents are pushing to get them accommodations like extra time. Obvious there are LD kids with accurate diagnoses who need accommodations, but I don't believe it's in the numbers we are seeing.

Yes there are lots of teachers at my school who STILL get defensive and insist that Lucy Calkins/LLI/Balanced Literacy were great and got a “bad rap.” Parents have no idea their kid was never given explicit phonics instruction.

Parents if your kid is older than 7, chances are they were never given explicit phonics instruction in northern Virginia. If they struggle to read, this is likely why.

Zero teachers are discussing this with parents unless they are clueless about social skills.

I AM a teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am baffled by this. I have a 2nd grader. She's a terrific reader. She missed the school closures of Covid so got to have normal PK and K even. She was reading on her own by the summer before K (just sounding out words) and then got good, phonics-based reading instruction in K and 1st and it really took off. Her preschool was play based and that was great for her. She was actually in a Title 1 for PK-1st (we're in DC with universal PK so she did PK at at a public elementary) and now is at a non-T1.

My perception is that her cohort is full of strong readers. We live in a MC/UMC neighborhood. There are plenty of bookstores and libraries here. Most people are college educated and the adults read (both to kids and on their own). Literacy is definitely valued as part of the culture here. There are also kids who struggle but the schools and parents are getting them support they need for LDs and other issues.

I do think Covid had some lasting effects on this cohort of kids, because I think Covid and other forces changed our culture permanently -- we never really returned to a pre-Covid existence. But I don't see it in the academic performance. The kids I know seem fine.

Not saying the studies are wrong, it's just not reflected in my experience at all. And we aren't wealthy outliers -- no tutors, most families can't afford nannies or a SAHP, pretty standard in terms of childcare and extracurriculars for kids, schools are good but not considered the best in the area or anything. They are "good enough" schools for people at our SES level who can't afford private or to live in very expensive school boundaries.

So I don't get it, but I don't think it's just Covid. Because if it was, you'd see the effects everywhere and I don't see them here.

The reading issues are more strongly correlated with Lucy Calkins and the Whole Language crap. More became aware of reading gaps during Covid, but NAEP reading test results had been poor even before Covid.

PP just above was lucky DC received Phonics-centered instruction, because many studies have shown that is what works for all kids. (dyslexic kids benefit most from Orton-Gillingham which itself is Phonics based).

Listen to the "Sold a Story" podcast and then weep. An entire generation of teachers and students were mis-taught.

This doesn’t and sense because Lucy calkins was more popular before Covid. If that were the cause, then reading scores should have improved as more states abandoned it.

Lucy Calkins/LLI/Queuing - call it whatever you like - was still widely used at the onset of Covid, even though strong data had come out against it back in 2005. GWB wanted to bag it, but then 9/11 happened and the Lucy etc. al lobby fought hard against it and it was abandoned. Reading scores went down in correlation with loss of phonics. It was not Covid. Covid just shed sunlight on it.

I'm in a 10/10 GS public elementary and I can confirm that we use Lucy Calkins. The reading specialist and K-2nd teachers use and suggest 3 cueing. I had DD meet with a different specialist from a different district and she 1) said DD didn't have any issues reading and was actually above grade level 2) talked about leveled readers and 3 cueing. I thanked her and went home, and immediately rolled my sleeves up and taught her how to read myself. She absolutely had issues with reading! She was guessing words rather than sounding things out phonetically. She was actually TAUGHT to guess. That's still wild to me, thinking about it 2 years later.

Yup. My kids are the lucky ones who learned in spite of LLI. They did struggle and I helped them at home (without a formal program, but did teach them to sound out words) and thankfully that was enough for them. I feel so terrible for the kids who are now in MS/HS or older who could be strong readers and just never received the right instruction. Their families trusted the school and the school let them down.

From what I can tell, the families do not suspect the school at all, even after the school has failed them. The school also has no idea. Usually the kids get remedial help at some point (which is a mixed bag), and by middle school parents are pushing to get them accommodations like extra time. Obvious there are LD kids with accurate diagnoses who need accommodations, but I don't believe it's in the numbers we are seeing.

Yes there are lots of teachers at my school who STILL get defensive and insist that Lucy Calkins/LLI/Balanced Literacy were great and got a “bad rap.” Parents have no idea their kid was never given explicit phonics instruction.

Parents if your kid is older than 7, chances are they were never given explicit phonics instruction in northern Virginia. If they struggle to read, this is likely why.

Zero teachers are discussing this with parents unless they are clueless about social skills.

I AM a teacher.

That makes more sense. Balanced Literacy was used wrong and was not good the way it was implemented. When I learned it in college in the mid 90’s there was a phonics component and we had to study phonics rules etc. However, as school systems got a hold of it and implemented it, they absolutely dropped the phonics component. I remember asking a central office trainer when I was new to the school system (MCPS) why you would teach letter names before sounds (clearly sounds are much more important) and they looked at me like I had 3 heads.

My point is, your teacher friends may have been trained originally like I was in balanced literacy with a strong phonics program.

[Anonymous]

It's not covid. Period.

It's the constant screens, laptop for every kid, and no textbooks.

Doesn't take a genius to figure this out.