Does 1580+ help T20 admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 4.0 uw 1550 public school DC denied by all T20s. Enrolled at UMD.

This was also my public school kid; 1550, 4.0 UW; excellent academic rigor; high AP test scores; average ECs. Enrolled at UMD for engineering. It wasn't surprising, b/c HS school peers had similar rigor and test scores, but excellent ECs.

I think there's a different threshold for Eng and CS.

DC scored 1580, 4.0/4.92 gpa from a magnet was waitlisted at Mich, denied at UIUC, GATech.. In at UMD with merit. Worked out well for DC in the end.

None of these are T20. These are heavily engineering focus schools with millions of same high stats applicants.

I bet your DC would have a much better chance applying to T20s with a different major, e.g., education. Then declare CS major sophomore.

At top CS schools you cannot transfer in. You have to apply and be accepted directly into CS as a first year freshman. Programs make this clear early on in admissions process

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chances are if you scored above 1530, you are going to one of these colleges:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1300165.page

Two things have always confused me about that post.

Michigan has the second-largest group of high scoring students, and it’s not close. Penn and Michigan both have over 900, while the next schools have under 600. Yet unlike all the other schools, the total for Michigan isn’t bolded.

Also, there is no cited source and the numbers appear to be, at best, back-of-the-napkin estimations.

I think one thing this list highlights is how many high scoring students there are across many schools, not just top 10.

Also how misleading “sat rates” are at schools - when for so many such as Princeton, only 50% even submitted an SAT score! …and of those, only about half scored over 1530. So, yes, not many kids compared to a Michigan or the like. If a kid gets shut out of their top hope, they are likely still to find similarly scoring kids at other Universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 4.0 uw 1550 public school DC denied by all T20s. Enrolled at UMD.

This was also my public school kid; 1550, 4.0 UW; excellent academic rigor; high AP test scores; average ECs. Enrolled at UMD for engineering. It wasn't surprising, b/c HS school peers had similar rigor and test scores, but excellent ECs.

I think there's a different threshold for Eng and CS.

DC scored 1580, 4.0/4.92 gpa from a magnet was waitlisted at Mich, denied at UIUC, GATech.. In at UMD with merit. Worked out well for DC in the end.

None of these are T20. These are heavily engineering focus schools with millions of same high stats applicants.

I bet your DC would have a much better chance applying to T20s with a different major, e.g., education. Then declare CS major sophomore.

At top CS schools you cannot transfer in. You have to apply and be accepted directly into CS as a first year freshman. Programs make this clear early on in admissions process

T20 or top CS schools?

Among T20s, I think only Cornell Penn Columbia have separate admissions for engineering schools. But even at their CAS you can still study CS. Stanford and MIT have no separate admissions.

[Anonymous]

I think anything above a 1500 is fine for top schools and even 1450+ if good grades/rigor/extracurriculars. MIT and CalTech may be exceptions that want to see 800s in math. A 1580 is certainly not going to be a negative but is not determinative in and of itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 4.0 uw 1550 public school DC denied by all T20s. Enrolled at UMD.

This was also my public school kid; 1550, 4.0 UW; excellent academic rigor; high AP test scores; average ECs. Enrolled at UMD for engineering. It wasn't surprising, b/c HS school peers had similar rigor and test scores, but excellent ECs.

I think there's a different threshold for Eng and CS.

DC scored 1580, 4.0/4.92 gpa from a magnet was waitlisted at Mich, denied at UIUC, GATech.. In at UMD with merit. Worked out well for DC in the end.

None of these are T20. These are heavily engineering focus schools with millions of same high stats applicants.

I bet your DC would have a much better chance applying to T20s with a different major, e.g., education. Then declare CS major sophomore.

A kid with heavy engineering activities will never get through as "education". Clueless bad mom advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Top scores are a dime a dozen. That alone isn't going to do much.

Agree. Not at all impressive.

Same with admission to Harvard; it is not that difficult nor impressive. Oxford is a far superior institution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top scores are a dime a dozen. That alone isn't going to do much.

Agree. Not at all impressive.

Same with admission to Harvard; it is not that difficult nor impressive. Oxford is a far superior institution.

For CS, UMD beats Oxford or Harvard or any T20. Heck, even VT is good enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than schools like Caltech?

I have looked at our Naviance, I don’t see a pattern where high test scores help admissions. There is always a healthy distribution of test scores for top schools.

Someone mentioned in the other thread that they help in Michigan admissions. What is your observation at your school?

Every point on the SAT matters. There is no point where it stops mattering. There is research on this and there is no question about this. Recently MIT claimed they did not differentiate between a 1580 and a 1600 but but did differentiate between a 1580 and a 1570.

There are 1000 perfect scores every year, 20,000 over 1510 but there are over 25,000 spots at Ivy+

The SAT is not enough to get you in and a lot of 1550's go to state school but your chance continues to improve with higher SAT scores

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

The last sentence is probably very close to truth.

[Anonymous]

My kid had a 1560 SAT but a low gpa.. got declined from ALL T20 schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school counselor gaslit my high score DC, basically told DC their high score is treated the same as 1500. Counselor was an AO at an ivy. So I guess it’s not helpful.

We were told differently by a former AO at an Ivy (1550 plus treated differently) so may depend on the school. Anecdotally, the kid with the 1600 and cum laude from our private did very well among T10 schools.

Look at the Harvard lawsuit. The scoring shows 33-36 was treated the same (!!!!)
It was all of the other factors that matter. And matter A LOT.

This is not consistent with the facts.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top scores are a dime a dozen. That alone isn't going to do much.

Actually 3260 out of 2.13 million scored 1580 or higher. It’s just that they all have parents on DCUM.

I believe you, but do you have a cite?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school counselor gaslit my high score DC, basically told DC their high score is treated the same as 1500. Counselor was an AO at an ivy. So I guess it’s not helpful.

We were told differently by a former AO at an Ivy (1550 plus treated differently) so may depend on the school. Anecdotally, the kid with the 1600 and cum laude from our private did very well among T10 schools.

Look at the Harvard lawsuit. The scoring shows 33-36 was treated the same (!!!!)
It was all of the other factors that matter. And matter A LOT.

This is not consistent with the facts.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

That paper does not *isolate* SAT score as a variable within that rage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school counselor gaslit my high score DC, basically told DC their high score is treated the same as 1500. Counselor was an AO at an ivy. So I guess it’s not helpful.

We were told differently by a former AO at an Ivy (1550 plus treated differently) so may depend on the school. Anecdotally, the kid with the 1600 and cum laude from our private did very well among T10 schools.

Look at the Harvard lawsuit. The scoring shows 33-36 was treated the same (!!!!)
It was all of the other factors that matter. And matter A LOT.

This is not consistent with the facts.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

That paper likely doesn't say what you believe that it does. There is correlation in the paper but not enough material to prove causation.

I would take AOs at their word that they bucketize SAT scores. There was the MIT article that said 1580 as the cutoff and I have heard numbers as low as 1540 straight from a MIT AO (they specifically said that 770 and above on either side is considered the same as 800 because it indicates complete mastery and they attribute the couple of questions missed to mistake and not a lack of knowledge. That said I would expect that there is incremental benefit at the edges for higher scores in tie breaking situations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think anything above a 1500 is fine for top schools and even 1450+ if good grades/rigor/extracurriculars. MIT and CalTech may be exceptions that want to see 800s in math. A 1580 is certainly not going to be a negative but is not determinative in and of itself.

Neither CalTech or MIT care about an 800 in Math. They care about mastery and a 770 shows mastery per a MIT AO. If you have that the misses are just mistakes, not indicative of a lack of mastery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid had a 1560 SAT but a low gpa.. got declined from ALL T20 schools

How low of gpa?