Does 1580+ help T20 admissions?

[Anonymous]

Search “Hoover” and “sat” and you’ll find a thread about how many 1530+ go to which schools. It’s interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Search “Hoover” and “sat” and you’ll find a thread about how many 1530+ go to which schools. It’s interesting.

Lots of results for vacuums

[Anonymous]

Chances are if you scored above 1530, you are going to one of these colleges:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1300165.page

[Anonymous]

It depends on if you need serious prep to get to 1580, as you could spend the time wisely on other more productive stuff!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chances are if you scored above 1530, you are going to one of these colleges:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1300165.page

Two things have always confused me about that post.

Michigan has the second-largest group of high scoring students, and it’s not close. Penn and Michigan both have over 900, while the next schools have under 600. Yet unlike all the other schools, the total for Michigan isn’t bolded.

Also, there is no cited source and the numbers appear to be, at best, back-of-the-napkin estimations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chances are if you scored above 1530, you are going to one of these colleges:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1300165.page

Difficult to reconcile with so many high stats rejects in DMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 4.0 uw 1550 public school DC denied by all T20s. Enrolled at UMD.

This was also my public school kid; 1550, 4.0 UW; excellent academic rigor; high AP test scores; average ECs. Enrolled at UMD for engineering. It wasn't surprising, b/c HS school peers had similar rigor and test scores, but excellent ECs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chances are if you scored above 1530, you are going to one of these colleges:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1300165.page

Difficult to reconcile with so many high stats rejects in DMV.

Bc of major and ECs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chances are if you scored above 1530, you are going to one of these colleges:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1300165.page

Difficult to reconcile with so many high stats rejects in DMV.

The analysis at the link combines CDS data with SAT data showing that 1% of all SAT-takers scored 1530+ to argue that virtually the whole supply of high-scoring students is absorbed by the schools on that list. However the SAT data is for single-sitting scores while the CDS data is superscored. More than 1% of students have 1530+ superscores, plausibly 2% or more. So there are actually a lot of 1530+ students at schools not on that list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 4.0 uw 1550 public school DC denied by all T20s. Enrolled at UMD.

This was also my public school kid; 1550, 4.0 UW; excellent academic rigor; high AP test scores; average ECs. Enrolled at UMD for engineering. It wasn't surprising, b/c HS school peers had similar rigor and test scores, but excellent ECs.

I think there's a different threshold for Eng and CS.

DC scored 1580, 4.0/4.92 gpa from a magnet was waitlisted at Mich, denied at UIUC, GATech.. In at UMD with merit. Worked out well for DC in the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 4.0 uw 1550 public school DC denied by all T20s. Enrolled at UMD.

This was also my public school kid; 1550, 4.0 UW; excellent academic rigor; high AP test scores; average ECs. Enrolled at UMD for engineering. It wasn't surprising, b/c HS school peers had similar rigor and test scores, but excellent ECs.

I think there's a different threshold for Eng and CS.

DC scored 1580, 4.0/4.92 gpa from a magnet was waitlisted at Mich, denied at UIUC, GATech.. In at UMD with merit. Worked out well for DC in the end.

None of these are T20. These are heavily engineering focus schools with millions of same high stats applicants.

I bet your DC would have a much better chance applying to T20s with a different major, e.g., education. Then declare CS major sophomore.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our school counselor gaslit my high score DC, basically told DC their high score is treated the same as 1500. Counselor was an AO at an ivy. So I guess it’s not helpful.

They could use it in shaping the class, where most AOs are not involved.

What does it mean shaping the class? Who is shaping the class if AOs are not involved?

Shaping the class means using computers to adjust who is in and out to make sure there are enough students in certain categories: boys, rural students, in-state students (at state schools), full-pay students (at schools where that matters), etc.

And majors and special talents/abilities.

these are not all hooks.

Evidence of "academic interest", which is institutional priorities (or undersubscribed), is an important part of class shaping. Perhaps the most overlooked in the discussion here.

It's why CS, Eng, and Business kids can have a horrible RD process while Classics, Middle Eastern Studies, Asian American Lang & Literature, and Jewish Studies can have fabulous RD runs.

You are saying, for undersubscribed majors, it works better in RD than ED?
So ED deferrals could be just that, at least partially, they want to shape the class toward the end of the application season?

Was there a weakness somewhere in the app noticeable in ED?
Are you the OP with a 1580?
Is it an objectively strong, undersubscribed application, with notable/strong in and out of school evidence for major and leadership/impact?
Great LOR that stands on its own?
Objectively strong essays?

Depending on the major (did you check the last page of CDS to see how many/what % of the senior class listed that major), I'd assume you get at least 1 in RD. But it honestly depends on the major and what the university prioritizes.
Class shaping is extremely important in RD.

DP. Just checked the last page of CDS, DC's major isn't listed there. I guess it's really under-subscribed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 4.0 uw 1550 public school DC denied by all T20s. Enrolled at UMD.

This was also my public school kid; 1550, 4.0 UW; excellent academic rigor; high AP test scores; average ECs. Enrolled at UMD for engineering. It wasn't surprising, b/c HS school peers had similar rigor and test scores, but excellent ECs.

I think there's a different threshold for Eng and CS.

DC scored 1580, 4.0/4.92 gpa from a magnet was waitlisted at Mich, denied at UIUC, GATech.. In at UMD with merit. Worked out well for DC in the end.

None of these are T20. These are heavily engineering focus schools with millions of same high stats applicants.

I bet your DC would have a much better chance applying to T20s with a different major, e.g., education. Then declare CS major sophomore.

Education? What!
At a top school you actually need to have evidence for that… Research related to educational policy, years of teaching, tutoring and mentoring? Essays highly focused on different educational pedagogy. It would be incongruent with this kids’s background

However, this kid probably should have declared math, data science, statistics or something like computational XYZ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Other than schools like Caltech?

I have looked at our Naviance, I don’t see a pattern where high test scores help admissions. There is always a healthy distribution of test scores for top schools.

Someone mentioned in the other thread that they help in Michigan admissions. What is your observation at your school?

Every point on the SAT matters. There is no point where it stops mattering. There is research on this and there is no question about this. Recently MIT claimed they did not differentiate between a 1580 and a 1600 but but did differentiate between a 1580 and a 1570.

There are 1000 perfect scores every year, 20,000 over 1510 but there are over 25,000 spots at Ivy+

The SAT is not enough to get you in and a lot of 1550's go to state school but your chance continues to improve with higher SAT scores

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our school counselor gaslit my high score DC, basically told DC their high score is treated the same as 1500. Counselor was an AO at an ivy. So I guess it’s not helpful.

They could use it in shaping the class, where most AOs are not involved.

What does it mean shaping the class? Who is shaping the class if AOs are not involved?

Shaping the class means using computers to adjust who is in and out to make sure there are enough students in certain categories: boys, rural students, in-state students (at state schools), full-pay students (at schools where that matters), etc.

And majors and special talents/abilities.

these are not all hooks.

Evidence of "academic interest", which is institutional priorities (or undersubscribed), is an important part of class shaping. Perhaps the most overlooked in the discussion here.

It's why CS, Eng, and Business kids can have a horrible RD process while Classics, Middle Eastern Studies, Asian American Lang & Literature, and Jewish Studies can have fabulous RD runs.

You are saying, for undersubscribed majors, it works better in RD than ED?
So ED deferrals could be just that, at least partially, they want to shape the class toward the end of the application season?

Was there a weakness somewhere in the app noticeable in ED?
Are you the OP with a 1580?
Is it an objectively strong, undersubscribed application, with notable/strong in and out of school evidence for major and leadership/impact?
Great LOR that stands on its own?
Objectively strong essays?

Depending on the major (did you check the last page of CDS to see how many/what % of the senior class listed that major), I'd assume you get at least 1 in RD. But it honestly depends on the major and what the university prioritizes.
Class shaping is extremely important in RD.

DP. Just checked the last page of CDS, DC's major isn't listed there. I guess it's really under-subscribed.

I wouldn’t assume that. It’s probably subsumed by a different category. Those are generic categories.

So for example, Jewish studies is sometimes included in religion / philosophy or ethnic / area studies. Things like that.

For Brown, for example if you go onto the concentrations page you can see how many seniors graduate with that listed concentration as their declared major. At other schools, you have to read the annual newsletter listed on the departments page to figure out how many graduating students listed that major. To figure out whether something is undersubscribed it would typically be around 1% or less of the graduating class.

So sometimes the data sits in different places, if that makes sense? You have to do the digging yourself to figure it out because every school is different.

Are you the person looking at CMC?

I feel like the undersubscribed major thing isn’t as relevant there given the unique nature of the school, major areas and academic interests.