A prime example of college counseling steering

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.instagram.com/phillipsexeter26decisions/?g=5
You won't find a cluster of more than 2, 3 kids for a same school. They are steered to a WIDE range of ivy league and plus and top lac schools.
No rat race, everyone finds somewhere they are happy.
Well done!

We know the Exeter college process well. this isn't true whatsoever. About 50 kids apply for Harvard each year. About 10 will be admitted, but it's not the best 10 applicants. Usually, it is a combination of legacies, athletes, URMs, FGLI, etc. Exeter is wealthier than most colleges, so they have many scholarship students with great personal stories. During college admissions season, they are heavily encouraged to lean on these stories in their applications.

The counseling process looks very different for hooked and unhooked kids. A low-income black student with a B+ average could be encouraged to ED to Penn. I've seen Exeter black kids with C's or worse in math class get into Yale over the years. Meanwhile, an unhooked kid with a 10/11 GPA (very strong at Exeter) will be encouraged to shoot for Cornell or Dartmouth ED.

I guarantee you that many of these kid admitted to places like Colby, Tufts, or Wesleyan had Ivy ambitions which were shot down by their college counseling office and they were encouraged to aim lower. Most of the kids are not happy with their outcomes, and many kids feel like they would've had better odds applying from their local public school because the pool is much less competitive. Instead of competing against 50 driven Exonians, they might be competing against 4 kids that aren't that impressive.

Don’t be so sure. Two of my friends went to Exeter, one of them went on to Stanford, the other to Duke. Both told me they wished they had gone to my SLAC as they think they would have been happier.

Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC's high school (not A/E but similar) had some sort of odd deal with Georgetown, to the extent that the school's scattergram for Georgetown showed a 100% acceptance rate above a certain GPA threshold (which was approximately the 70th percentile). Pretty much every kid got funneled into applying there so that if they didn't get an Ivy, the school could still have them listed as attending Georgetown on their matriculation list

Georgetown has a clear line on our scattergram too. But the school doesn't funnel anyone there. The kids just know it's their "I'd be happy there" safety if they're over that line. As a result, there's a big cohort of kids from our HS there and they really take care of each other - easier time getting into clubs etc. IT's a really great and lucky outcome for kids who are not even top 25%. At our HS at least, there's a feeling of, this is what we got for being at this HS - a backdoor into some of these good colleges.

🤦‍♀️ @ bolded text. The kids from these schools are the ones who made college clubs a competitive process — so they could get their loser friends in and keep brilliant public school kids out.

[Anonymous]

I mean, it's not that competitive for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.instagram.com/phillipsexeter26decisions/?g=5
You won't find a cluster of more than 2, 3 kids for a same school. They are steered to a WIDE range of ivy league and plus and top lac schools.
No rat race, everyone finds somewhere they are happy.
Well done!

We know the Exeter college process well. this isn't true whatsoever. About 50 kids apply for Harvard each year. About 10 will be admitted, but it's not the best 10 applicants. Usually, it is a combination of legacies, athletes, URMs, FGLI, etc. Exeter is wealthier than most colleges, so they have many scholarship students with great personal stories. During college admissions season, they are heavily encouraged to lean on these stories in their applications.

The counseling process looks very different for hooked and unhooked kids. A low-income black student with a B+ average could be encouraged to ED to Penn. I've seen Exeter black kids with C's or worse in math class get into Yale over the years. Meanwhile, an unhooked kid with a 10/11 GPA (very strong at Exeter) will be encouraged to shoot for Cornell or Dartmouth ED.

I guarantee you that many of these kid admitted to places like Colby, Tufts, or Wesleyan had Ivy ambitions which were shot down by their college counseling office and they were encouraged to aim lower. Most of the kids are not happy with their outcomes, and many kids feel like they would've had better odds applying from their local public school because the pool is much less competitive. Instead of competing against 50 driven Exonians, they might be competing against 4 kids that aren't that impressive.

Don’t be so sure. Two of my friends went to Exeter, one of them went on to Stanford, the other to Duke. Both told me they wished they had gone to my SLAC as they think they would have been happier.

Why?

I’m not exactly sure but I think it’s because they loved their time at Exeter and my school was in a beautiful rural place and had a boarding school vibe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.instagram.com/phillipsexeter26decisions/?g=5
You won't find a cluster of more than 2, 3 kids for a same school. They are steered to a WIDE range of ivy league and plus and top lac schools.
No rat race, everyone finds somewhere they are happy.
Well done!

We know the Exeter college process well. this isn't true whatsoever. About 50 kids apply for Harvard each year. About 10 will be admitted, but it's not the best 10 applicants. Usually, it is a combination of legacies, athletes, URMs, FGLI, etc. Exeter is wealthier than most colleges, so they have many scholarship students with great personal stories. During college admissions season, they are heavily encouraged to lean on these stories in their applications.

The counseling process looks very different for hooked and unhooked kids. A low-income black student with a B+ average could be encouraged to ED to Penn. I've seen Exeter black kids with C's or worse in math class get into Yale over the years. Meanwhile, an unhooked kid with a 10/11 GPA (very strong at Exeter) will be encouraged to shoot for Cornell or Dartmouth ED.

I guarantee you that many of these kid admitted to places like Colby, Tufts, or Wesleyan had Ivy ambitions which were shot down by their college counseling office and they were encouraged to aim lower. Most of the kids are not happy with their outcomes, and many kids feel like they would've had better odds applying from their local public school because the pool is much less competitive. Instead of competing against 50 driven Exonians, they might be competing against 4 kids that aren't that impressive.

Don’t be so sure. Two of my friends went to Exeter, one of them went on to Stanford, the other to Duke. Both told me they wished they had gone to my SLAC as they think they would have been happier.

Why?

I’m not exactly sure but I think it’s because they loved their time at Exeter and my school was in a beautiful rural place and had a boarding school vibe.

Would love to know which SLAC you loved?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the above poster:

Do you think that everyone knows this going in? But each thinks they will still be at the top?

My child attends a peer school. We always knew they could not compete with the very tippy top at his school, but he could get an outstanding education and still be top 1-3% nationally, even if not highly ranked in the class. As the Ivies get weirder, we think the best future network is in a fantastic boarding school with wide representation. Most importantly, the rigor and small class sizes provide the best education.

Different way of looking at it?

I think a lot of families without experience at Exeter and the other top boarding schools (Andover, Choate, St.Paul's, Lawrenceville, etc.) have a hard time conceptualizing how competitive they are internally. They understand their kid might not be the very top student. But almost everyone seems to assume their kid will be in the top 20% Almost no one thinks their kid will be in the bottom half of the class.

Again, I've witnessed students with sterling 4.5+ GPAs at their public school transfer into Exeter and immediately fall to a 9-9.5 GPA (B+) They're stunned to see the same quality of essay that easily netted an "A" at public school receive a "B" or worse at Exeter. These students would've received better grades and be better positioned for college admissions had they just remained in public school.

Is a 9-9.5 still in the top quarter? The middle 50% SAT range of Exeter is surprisingly low (1360-1550), considering it’s pretty competitive to get into the school!

So you’re saying a 1550 is the 75th percentile? Meaning that 25% of the kids score higher than a 1550? How is that low?

[Anonymous]

Do the parents who send their kids to elite boarding schools and have their kids end up at colleges that were easily attainable from public (e.g., the example above, UC Davis) end up regretting the decision to send their kids to boarding school? Or do they feel that it was worth it since the kids got a great education, great high school network, and were more ready for college life?

I feel like we never hear the perspective of a parent who made this decision and I'm sure there are some on this board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do the parents who send their kids to elite boarding schools and have their kids end up at colleges that were easily attainable from public (e.g., the example above, UC Davis) end up regretting the decision to send their kids to boarding school? Or do they feel that it was worth it since the kids got a great education, great high school network, and were more ready for college life?

I feel like we never hear the perspective of a parent who made this decision and I'm sure there are some on this board.

I don't see many matriculting to public unis. I think boarding schools and private schools are REALLY good at sending kids to liberal arts colleges. Second tier liberal art colleges like Davidson Wesleyan Bates or even Dickinson, are not that easily attainable to public school kids. Not to mention Chicago. Many parents are fine with these results. No regrets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do the parents who send their kids to elite boarding schools and have their kids end up at colleges that were easily attainable from public (e.g., the example above, UC Davis) end up regretting the decision to send their kids to boarding school? Or do they feel that it was worth it since the kids got a great education, great high school network, and were more ready for college life?

I feel like we never hear the perspective of a parent who made this decision and I'm sure there are some on this board.

I don't see many matriculting to public unis. I think boarding schools and private schools are REALLY good at sending kids to liberal arts colleges. Second tier liberal art colleges like Davidson Wesleyan Bates or even Dickinson, are not that easily attainable to public school kids. Not to mention Chicago. Many parents are fine with these results. No regrets.

Public school kids usually skip liberal arts colleges due to the cost. If you make that much money to afford a full pay at a SLAC you are probably sending your kid to a private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do the parents who send their kids to elite boarding schools and have their kids end up at colleges that were easily attainable from public (e.g., the example above, UC Davis) end up regretting the decision to send their kids to boarding school? Or do they feel that it was worth it since the kids got a great education, great high school network, and were more ready for college life?

I feel like we never hear the perspective of a parent who made this decision and I'm sure there are some on this board.

I don't see many matriculting to public unis. I think boarding schools and private schools are REALLY good at sending kids to liberal arts colleges. Second tier liberal art colleges like Davidson Wesleyan Bates or even Dickinson, are not that easily attainable to public school kids. Not to mention Chicago. Many parents are fine with these results. No regrets.

Wesleyan and Dickinson (not sure about Davidson and Bates) are not that unattainable for public school kids.

LACs (especially second tier) are just not that popular among most public school applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do the parents who send their kids to elite boarding schools and have their kids end up at colleges that were easily attainable from public (e.g., the example above, UC Davis) end up regretting the decision to send their kids to boarding school? Or do they feel that it was worth it since the kids got a great education, great high school network, and were more ready for college life?

I feel like we never hear the perspective of a parent who made this decision and I'm sure there are some on this board.

I don't think many regret it at all. Most kids at elite boarding schools find college a breeze. Even the ones that don't end up at their top choices, usually float through academically and have an extremely strong foundation. This means they are able to complete pre-med coursework without as much struggle.

The network at a top boarding school is immensely helpful. The students my kid met at Lawrenceville were much more driven and impressive than what he met at his T10 school. The vast majority of his HS classmates became very successful with many in top graduate programs and elite career pathways. It was definitely worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do the parents who send their kids to elite boarding schools and have their kids end up at colleges that were easily attainable from public (e.g., the example above, UC Davis) end up regretting the decision to send their kids to boarding school? Or do they feel that it was worth it since the kids got a great education, great high school network, and were more ready for college life?

I feel like we never hear the perspective of a parent who made this decision and I'm sure there are some on this board.

I don't see many matriculting to public unis. I think boarding schools and private schools are REALLY good at sending kids to liberal arts colleges. Second tier liberal art colleges like Davidson Wesleyan Bates or even Dickinson, are not that easily attainable to public school kids. Not to mention Chicago. Many parents are fine with these results. No regrets.

Wesleyan and Dickinson (not sure about Davidson and Bates) are not that unattainable for public school kids.

LACs (especially second tier) are just not that popular among most public school applicants.

LACs are not popular because they don't take many from public schools, as a result fewer public school kids apply there. And because fewer applications, LACs become even less favoring public school kids.

No matter what reason, this creates certain exclusivity for LACs, even the second tier ones. Private school parents are okay with this result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.instagram.com/phillipsexeter26decisions/?g=5
You won't find a cluster of more than 2, 3 kids for a same school. They are steered to a WIDE range of ivy league and plus and top lac schools.
No rat race, everyone finds somewhere they are happy.
Well done!

We know the Exeter college process well. this isn't true whatsoever. About 50 kids apply for Harvard each year. About 10 will be admitted, but it's not the best 10 applicants. Usually, it is a combination of legacies, athletes, URMs, FGLI, etc. Exeter is wealthier than most colleges, so they have many scholarship students with great personal stories. During college admissions season, they are heavily encouraged to lean on these stories in their applications.

The counseling process looks very different for hooked and unhooked kids. A low-income black student with a B+ average could be encouraged to ED to Penn. I've seen Exeter black kids with C's or worse in math class get into Yale over the years. Meanwhile, an unhooked kid with a 10/11 GPA (very strong at Exeter) will be encouraged to shoot for Cornell or Dartmouth ED.

I guarantee you that many of these kid admitted to places like Colby, Tufts, or Wesleyan had Ivy ambitions which were shot down by their college counseling office and they were encouraged to aim lower. Most of the kids are not happy with their outcomes, and many kids feel like they would've had better odds applying from their local public school because the pool is much less competitive. Instead of competing against 50 driven Exonians, they might be competing against 4 kids that aren't that impressive.

I know the Andover process well and just so nobody is confused, these are the right categories but let's make sure we know the order. It' snot really about black kid with the B+. That kid will get in every other year, and there are many at Andover. And I've never seen a black kid with Cs in math get into HYP - maybe if it was a C first semester freshman year and now his SAT is a 780 in math. (Harvard uses questbridge now to get the low income URM from these schools). And legacies and FGLI with a B+ have a little big better odds. But still tough.

Here's who gets into Harvard: the rower with the B+. the tennis player with a 1480. the football player with a B average and a 1450. the squash player who isn't a top 20 ranked and has no other EC are all. the "sailing team" who all get in who are not top 10% of the class. the soccer player who is a good student but a top 10 kid.

It's the athletes guys. Always and always.

This is somewhat true, but Harvard definitely will take the top 2-3 academic applicants from the HADES schools. They know these kids are extremely bright and extremely well prepared and it helps the school's academic profile to have them on campus. The students outside the top decile struggle in college admissions if they want an Ivy. They usually can land on their feet if they're strategic and ED to Chicago or EA to Georgetown. Nearly everyone ends up somewhere in the T50 and many transfer into the T20 after freshman year anyways.

[Anonymous]

My top boarding school (HADES) network helped me more with my job search than my top LAC (WASP) network.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.instagram.com/phillipsexeter26decisions/?g=5
You won't find a cluster of more than 2, 3 kids for a same school. They are steered to a WIDE range of ivy league and plus and top lac schools.
No rat race, everyone finds somewhere they are happy.
Well done!

We know the Exeter college process well. this isn't true whatsoever. About 50 kids apply for Harvard each year. About 10 will be admitted, but it's not the best 10 applicants. Usually, it is a combination of legacies, athletes, URMs, FGLI, etc. Exeter is wealthier than most colleges, so they have many scholarship students with great personal stories. During college admissions season, they are heavily encouraged to lean on these stories in their applications.

The counseling process looks very different for hooked and unhooked kids. A low-income black student with a B+ average could be encouraged to ED to Penn. I've seen Exeter black kids with C's or worse in math class get into Yale over the years. Meanwhile, an unhooked kid with a 10/11 GPA (very strong at Exeter) will be encouraged to shoot for Cornell or Dartmouth ED.

I guarantee you that many of these kid admitted to places like Colby, Tufts, or Wesleyan had Ivy ambitions which were shot down by their college counseling office and they were encouraged to aim lower. Most of the kids are not happy with their outcomes, and many kids feel like they would've had better odds applying from their local public school because the pool is much less competitive. Instead of competing against 50 driven Exonians, they might be competing against 4 kids that aren't that impressive.

I know the Andover process well and just so nobody is confused, these are the right categories but let's make sure we know the order. It' snot really about black kid with the B+. That kid will get in every other year, and there are many at Andover. And I've never seen a black kid with Cs in math get into HYP - maybe if it was a C first semester freshman year and now his SAT is a 780 in math. (Harvard uses questbridge now to get the low income URM from these schools). And legacies and FGLI with a B+ have a little big better odds. But still tough.

Here's who gets into Harvard: the rower with the B+. the tennis player with a 1480. the football player with a B average and a 1450. the squash player who isn't a top 20 ranked and has no other EC are all. the "sailing team" who all get in who are not top 10% of the class. the soccer player who is a good student but a top 10 kid.

It's the athletes guys. Always and always.

This is somewhat true, but Harvard definitely will take the top 2-3 academic applicants from the HADES schools. They know these kids are extremely bright and extremely well prepared and it helps the school's academic profile to have them on campus. The students outside the top decile struggle in college admissions if they want an Ivy. They usually can land on their feet if they're strategic and ED to Chicago or EA to Georgetown. Nearly everyone ends up somewhere in the T50 and many transfer into the T20 after freshman year anyways.

Depends on which T20. It's still very difficult for all the ivies. Vandy maybe.