reality for 1500 SAT (no SLAC)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kid is 1500 on his SATs, which after 3x is probably where it will stay. 4.0 Trying to build list and don't have counselor. Strong extracurriculars from area public but no crazy summer programs or sports that are recruitable. Interested in larger schools. Undecided for major. How did my chat gpt counselor do? Did any kids you know with these profiles get in? He liked his visit to Michigan and UVA. We love Wash U. Is Vandy & Duke or Penn even in play or a waste of application time.

🔴 REACH (1500 = still reach, but legit)

RD
University of Pennsylvania
~8–12%

Duke University
~10–15%


🟠 REACH / HIGH TARGET
Washington University in St. Louis
~30–35% (ED)
or
Vanderbilt University
~25–30% (ED)
---

University of Michigan
~40–50% (EA)

🟢 TARGET

EA
University of Virginia
~35–45%

University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
~30–40% (OOS)

RD
Boston College
~45–55%

🟢 LIKELY / TARGET (1500 = strong)

University of Texas at Austin (EA)
~45–55% (OOS)

Villanova University (RD)
~60–70%

🟢 LIKELY (1500 = very strong)

University of Florida (EA)
~70–80%

University of Maryland (EA)
*~80%+

This analysis seems optomistic.

[Anonymous]

My child went TO because of her stats:

1290 SAT
3.5 gpa - school doesn’t weight
1 AP course but didn’t submit score

Applied for Biology

Great school. Great Essays. Great LORs. I would argue average ECs. No hook.

Accepted to Franklin and Marshall, UVM, St Mary’s, UPenn and waiting on RD with UofMaryland.


It’s all subjective. My son had better stats and was deferred from similar level schools, but admitted to College Park in CS.

I thought she was being way too ambitious and she proved me wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child went TO because of her stats:

1290 SAT
3.5 gpa - school doesn’t weight
1 AP course but didn’t submit score

Applied for Biology

Great school. Great Essays. Great LORs. I would argue average ECs. No hook.

Accepted to Franklin and Marshall, UVM, St Mary’s, UPenn and waiting on RD with UofMaryland.


It’s all subjective. My son had better stats and was deferred from similar level schools, but admitted to College Park in CS.

I thought she was being way too ambitious and she proved me wrong.

U Penn or Penn State?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child went TO because of her stats:

1290 SAT
3.5 gpa - school doesn’t weight
1 AP course but didn’t submit score

Applied for Biology

Great school. Great Essays. Great LORs. I would argue average ECs. No hook.

Accepted to Franklin and Marshall, UVM, St Mary’s, UPenn and waiting on RD with UofMaryland.


It’s all subjective. My son had better stats and was deferred from similar level schools, but admitted to College Park in CS.

I thought she was being way too ambitious and she proved me wrong.

U Penn or Penn State?

Yeah, no chance it's Penn. Zero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve looked at Naviance, and at least at our school the outcomes really do vary. I can’t quite understand why a student with a 1430 might get in while someone with a 1580 doesn’t.

I’m also curious how people define “amazing” extracurriculars. Are there concrete examples of what’s considered good versus great?

Thank you! And is anyone else navigating this without relying on a counselor?

I do alumni interviews for an Ivy and you have no idea how homogeneous files of strong students generally look. It's the 1500(+) SAT applicants who stand out in some way, and have a cohesive narrative, that have some chance at the high reaches. Especially in the DMV, where strong unhooked applicants are a dime a dozen and kids are competing against international Olympiad medalists, award-winning musicians, recruited athletes, published researchers, VIP kids etc. (great ECs) The competition is simply brutal. Good = leadership in school clubs, editing the school newspaper, long-term commitment to music, art, athletics, Scouts. Not likely to move the needle at a high reach but with strong essays, solid chance at a high target.

A 1430 kid is not getting into a T-10 unless hooked, usually FGLI and representing geographic diversity as well.

Everyone always says this, but Penn has 2500 freshman; they can't all be national award winners, especially when a lot of those award winners are at other top 10 schools.

2500 freshman
how many hooked? athletes, legacy, donor, faculty, FG LI, URM.
Philly local public school kids. How many?
Then there are feeder schools nation wide.
A small piece of pie for the MC UMC.

Legacy is pretty much irrelevant if not a big donor. Faculty is going to be a few kids each year at most. URM is not permitted anymore. FGLI I'll give you, but again, not a huge number. Athletes are probably the biggest hook, but that aside still leaves plenty of room for normal academic standouts.

That’s your opinion, not a fact. There are Research studies that show that legacy preferences at elite schools (Ivy plus excluding MIT and cal tech which explicitly disregard legacies) can make students up to 4x more likely to be accepted than non-legacy students with similar credentials.

Those are old studies. Most schools are doing away with or significantly reducing legacy preference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd add Chicago and especially Oxford or Cambridge -- schools that don't care about fabricated EC stories or sports or such hooks, and only care about your academic performance.

The biggest factor for Chicago is whether you apply early decision and commit to going there no matter what so that they can artificially inflate their yield numbers. That doesn’t mean that they only care about academic performance.

You sound perturbed by the #6 school in the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child went TO because of her stats:

1290 SAT
3.5 gpa - school doesn’t weight
1 AP course but didn’t submit score

Applied for Biology

Great school. Great Essays. Great LORs. I would argue average ECs. No hook.

Accepted to Franklin and Marshall, UVM, St Mary’s, UPenn and waiting on RD with UofMaryland.


It’s all subjective. My son had better stats and was deferred from similar level schools, but admitted to College Park in CS.

I thought she was being way too ambitious and she proved me wrong.

U Penn or Penn State?

Penn State, I apologize. Main campus. I forget there is a UPenn, but she definitely didn’t have the stats to apply ED at UPenn.

She applied ED to UVM so she’s off to Burlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve looked at Naviance, and at least at our school the outcomes really do vary. I can’t quite understand why a student with a 1430 might get in while someone with a 1580 doesn’t.

I’m also curious how people define “amazing” extracurriculars. Are there concrete examples of what’s considered good versus great?

Thank you! And is anyone else navigating this without relying on a counselor?

I do alumni interviews for an Ivy and you have no idea how homogeneous files of strong students generally look. It's the 1500(+) SAT applicants who stand out in some way, and have a cohesive narrative, that have some chance at the high reaches. Especially in the DMV, where strong unhooked applicants are a dime a dozen and kids are competing against international Olympiad medalists, award-winning musicians, recruited athletes, published researchers, VIP kids etc. (great ECs) The competition is simply brutal. Good = leadership in school clubs, editing the school newspaper, long-term commitment to music, art, athletics, Scouts. Not likely to move the needle at a high reach but with strong essays, solid chance at a high target.

A 1430 kid is not getting into a T-10 unless hooked, usually FGLI and representing geographic diversity as well.

Everyone always says this, but Penn has 2500 freshman; they can't all be national award winners, especially when a lot of those award winners are at other top 10 schools.

2500 freshman
how many hooked? athletes, legacy, donor, faculty, FG LI, URM.
Philly local public school kids. How many?
Then there are feeder schools nation wide.
A small piece of pie for the MC UMC.

Legacy is pretty much irrelevant if not a big donor. Faculty is going to be a few kids each year at most. URM is not permitted anymore. FGLI I'll give you, but again, not a huge number. Athletes are probably the biggest hook, but that aside still leaves plenty of room for normal academic standouts.

Faculty/staff is way more than a few kids. From my kid’s Philly area HS last year about 15 went to Penn and I think basically all had parents who worked there. That’s just one HS.

15 kids to Penn from any high school his exceedingly rare, and you know that. C'mon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child went TO because of her stats:

1290 SAT
3.5 gpa - school doesn’t weight
1 AP course but didn’t submit score

Applied for Biology

Great school. Great Essays. Great LORs. I would argue average ECs. No hook.

Accepted to Franklin and Marshall, UVM, St Mary’s, UPenn and waiting on RD with UofMaryland.


It’s all subjective. My son had better stats and was deferred from similar level schools, but admitted to College Park in CS.

I thought she was being way too ambitious and she proved me wrong.

U Penn or Penn State?

Yeah, no chance it's Penn. Zero.

Admissions this year have been weird. It’s not as much of a rat race when applications are declining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve looked at Naviance, and at least at our school the outcomes really do vary. I can’t quite understand why a student with a 1430 might get in while someone with a 1580 doesn’t.

I’m also curious how people define “amazing” extracurriculars. Are there concrete examples of what’s considered good versus great?

Thank you! And is anyone else navigating this without relying on a counselor?

I do alumni interviews for an Ivy and you have no idea how homogeneous files of strong students generally look. It's the 1500(+) SAT applicants who stand out in some way, and have a cohesive narrative, that have some chance at the high reaches. Especially in the DMV, where strong unhooked applicants are a dime a dozen and kids are competing against international Olympiad medalists, award-winning musicians, recruited athletes, published researchers, VIP kids etc. (great ECs) The competition is simply brutal. Good = leadership in school clubs, editing the school newspaper, long-term commitment to music, art, athletics, Scouts. Not likely to move the needle at a high reach but with strong essays, solid chance at a high target.

A 1430 kid is not getting into a T-10 unless hooked, usually FGLI and representing geographic diversity as well.

Everyone always says this, but Penn has 2500 freshman; they can't all be national award winners, especially when a lot of those award winners are at other top 10 schools.

2500 freshman
how many hooked? athletes, legacy, donor, faculty, FG LI, URM.
Philly local public school kids. How many?
Then there are feeder schools nation wide.
A small piece of pie for the MC UMC.

Legacy is pretty much irrelevant if not a big donor. Faculty is going to be a few kids each year at most. URM is not permitted anymore. FGLI I'll give you, but again, not a huge number. Athletes are probably the biggest hook, but that aside still leaves plenty of room for normal academic standouts.

10% athletes
15% legacy
10% first gen
10% low income
5% donor, faculty, celebrity, connection

That's half of the class gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve looked at Naviance, and at least at our school the outcomes really do vary. I can’t quite understand why a student with a 1430 might get in while someone with a 1580 doesn’t.

I’m also curious how people define “amazing” extracurriculars. Are there concrete examples of what’s considered good versus great?

Thank you! And is anyone else navigating this without relying on a counselor?

I do alumni interviews for an Ivy and you have no idea how homogeneous files of strong students generally look. It's the 1500(+) SAT applicants who stand out in some way, and have a cohesive narrative, that have some chance at the high reaches. Especially in the DMV, where strong unhooked applicants are a dime a dozen and kids are competing against international Olympiad medalists, award-winning musicians, recruited athletes, published researchers, VIP kids etc. (great ECs) The competition is simply brutal. Good = leadership in school clubs, editing the school newspaper, long-term commitment to music, art, athletics, Scouts. Not likely to move the needle at a high reach but with strong essays, solid chance at a high target.

A 1430 kid is not getting into a T-10 unless hooked, usually FGLI and representing geographic diversity as well.

Everyone always says this, but Penn has 2500 freshman; they can't all be national award winners, especially when a lot of those award winners are at other top 10 schools.

2500 freshman
how many hooked? athletes, legacy, donor, faculty, FG LI, URM.
Philly local public school kids. How many?
Then there are feeder schools nation wide.
A small piece of pie for the MC UMC.

Legacy is pretty much irrelevant if not a big donor. Faculty is going to be a few kids each year at most. URM is not permitted anymore. FGLI I'll give you, but again, not a huge number. Athletes are probably the biggest hook, but that aside still leaves plenty of room for normal academic standouts.

10% athletes
15% legacy
10% first gen
10% low income
5% donor, faculty, celebrity, connection

That's half of the class gone.

No way on legacy. Most schools have done away with it unless you're a big donor, which has nothing to do with the legacy and more to do with the donations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd add Chicago and especially Oxford or Cambridge -- schools that don't care about fabricated EC stories or sports or such hooks, and only care about your academic performance.

The biggest factor for Chicago is whether you apply early decision and commit to going there no matter what so that they can artificially inflate their yield numbers. That doesn’t mean that they only care about academic performance.

You sound perturbed by the #6 school in the country.

which announced $6.2 billion in debt last June and has been slashing programs, offerings and faculty right and left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve looked at Naviance, and at least at our school the outcomes really do vary. I can’t quite understand why a student with a 1430 might get in while someone with a 1580 doesn’t.

I’m also curious how people define “amazing” extracurriculars. Are there concrete examples of what’s considered good versus great?

Thank you! And is anyone else navigating this without relying on a counselor?

I do alumni interviews for an Ivy and you have no idea how homogeneous files of strong students generally look. It's the 1500(+) SAT applicants who stand out in some way, and have a cohesive narrative, that have some chance at the high reaches. Especially in the DMV, where strong unhooked applicants are a dime a dozen and kids are competing against international Olympiad medalists, award-winning musicians, recruited athletes, published researchers, VIP kids etc. (great ECs) The competition is simply brutal. Good = leadership in school clubs, editing the school newspaper, long-term commitment to music, art, athletics, Scouts. Not likely to move the needle at a high reach but with strong essays, solid chance at a high target.

A 1430 kid is not getting into a T-10 unless hooked, usually FGLI and representing geographic diversity as well.

Everyone always says this, but Penn has 2500 freshman; they can't all be national award winners, especially when a lot of those award winners are at other top 10 schools.

2500 freshman
how many hooked? athletes, legacy, donor, faculty, FG LI, URM.
Philly local public school kids. How many?
Then there are feeder schools nation wide.
A small piece of pie for the MC UMC.

Legacy is pretty much irrelevant if not a big donor. Faculty is going to be a few kids each year at most. URM is not permitted anymore. FGLI I'll give you, but again, not a huge number. Athletes are probably the biggest hook, but that aside still leaves plenty of room for normal academic standouts.

10% athletes
15% legacy
10% first gen
10% low income
5% donor, faculty, celebrity, connection

That's half of the class gone.

So at Penn, all of the other 1250 are national award winners? Naw. Plenty of room for kids with regular good ECs and top stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd add Chicago and especially Oxford or Cambridge -- schools that don't care about fabricated EC stories or sports or such hooks, and only care about your academic performance.

The biggest factor for Chicago is whether you apply early decision and commit to going there no matter what so that they can artificially inflate their yield numbers. That doesn’t mean that they only care about academic performance.

You sound perturbed by the #6 school in the country.

which announced $6.2 billion in debt last June and has been slashing programs, offerings and faculty right and left.

I figured you had an axe to grind. Lol. Hope your kids are enjoying their time at JMU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ve looked at Naviance, and at least at our school the outcomes really do vary. I can’t quite understand why a student with a 1430 might get in while someone with a 1580 doesn’t.

I’m also curious how people define “amazing” extracurriculars. Are there concrete examples of what’s considered good versus great?

Thank you! And is anyone else navigating this without relying on a counselor?

I do alumni interviews for an Ivy and you have no idea how homogeneous files of strong students generally look. It's the 1500(+) SAT applicants who stand out in some way, and have a cohesive narrative, that have some chance at the high reaches. Especially in the DMV, where strong unhooked applicants are a dime a dozen and kids are competing against international Olympiad medalists, award-winning musicians, recruited athletes, published researchers, VIP kids etc. (great ECs) The competition is simply brutal. Good = leadership in school clubs, editing the school newspaper, long-term commitment to music, art, athletics, Scouts. Not likely to move the needle at a high reach but with strong essays, solid chance at a high target.

A 1430 kid is not getting into a T-10 unless hooked, usually FGLI and representing geographic diversity as well.

Everyone always says this, but Penn has 2500 freshman; they can't all be national award winners, especially when a lot of those award winners are at other top 10 schools.

2500 freshman
how many hooked? athletes, legacy, donor, faculty, FG LI, URM.
Philly local public school kids. How many?
Then there are feeder schools nation wide.
A small piece of pie for the MC UMC.

Legacy is pretty much irrelevant if not a big donor. Faculty is going to be a few kids each year at most. URM is not permitted anymore. FGLI I'll give you, but again, not a huge number. Athletes are probably the biggest hook, but that aside still leaves plenty of room for normal academic standouts.

That’s your opinion, not a fact. There are Research studies that show that legacy preferences at elite schools (Ivy plus excluding MIT and cal tech which explicitly disregard legacies) can make students up to 4x more likely to be accepted than non-legacy students with similar credentials.

Those are old studies. Most schools are doing away with or significantly reducing legacy preference.

The study by Harvard professors of 30+ elite universities was published in 2023. That's fairly new research. Feel free to cite your evidence that legacy preferences no longer matter. MIT and Cal Tech are among the few elite universities that have done away with legacy preferences, along with Stanford due to the California law outlawing consideration of legacy.