Advice needed after ED rejection

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Johns Hopkins - excellent humanities and social sciences (econ, IR)!

WashU - like Princeton but in St. Louis

Williams - no essays, just share a graded assignment

Neither Hopkins or Williams is taking outside top twenty percent of class.

Hopkins takes top 10%, Williams either hooked or top15% (which overlap a lot).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the responses. They have a couple of safeties in the bag already. Waiting on some EA's in January. Our school does not have that many athletes (usually 2 or 3). Legacies possibly a few more.

Kid wants medium sized, not Liberal Arts type school (didn't like Amherst, etc.) Did like Emory, but not sure about ED there.

Has 4.3 weighted and all 5's on APs from junior year. That puts them in top 30% of class. Small school with about 90 graduating each year. I think JHU will be a long shot (don't they want top 10% of class?)

CMU? I think that fits him well if he doesn’t mind the location.

Careful -- Carnegie Mellon tracks demonstrated interest. It's late in the game to show such interest now.

I wouldn’t go to CMU for humanities unless specifically interested in fine arts or theater.

+1 CMU makes no sense for humanities, only certain arts. Agree with PP that JHU and Rice are excellent though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Johns Hopkins - excellent humanities and social sciences (econ, IR)!

WashU - like Princeton but in St. Louis

Williams - no essays, just share a graded assignment

Neither Hopkins or Williams is taking outside top twenty percent of class.

Hopkins takes top 10%, Williams either hooked or top15% (which overlap a lot).

Williams unhooked is harder to get into than Hopkins. Full stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe ED2 is predatory, if not a scam. Limited selection of schools and acceptance rates are not much higher than RD.

Do they have a balanced list of schools for RD? I would definitely reach out to your school counselor for advice on RD list/strategy.

I don’t understand what’s predatory about it. What’s the downside?

If the school is genuinely is your kid’s top remaining choice, what’s the harm in checking the ED2 box? If you get deferred, you’re no worse off than if you just kept it RD. And if you get denied, you know sooner rather than later and can pivot away mentally.

If the school is not your kid’s top remaining choice, it’s up to you whether and how you want to play the odds. Drop down to a safer choice ED2? Take a shot at a higher school, knowing the odds are low? Or stick with RD across the board?

You have options, and it’s a completely personal choice, 100% in your control. Nothing predatory about that, IMO.

Because the college admissions process really shouldn't be about "playing the odds." But unfortunately, that is what it is. Kids should be trying to find the best school for them. Unfortunately, it has become a miserable process with too much focus on gaming the system, both by the applicants and the school.

I know two people who went to Cornell.

One was rejected and went to SUNY Binghamton for a year, then transferred.

The other applied to one of the Statutory schools which is much less glamorous but still provides a quality Cornell education.

“But I really want it” is not a convincing argument. For any school.

lol This is just not true.

Go away troll.

DP here, it sounds true to me. Grew up in NY, it was a well known fact that the Ag School was a much easier admit than Arts & Sciences.

No one cares if you go to CAS or CALS. I guess you or your DC didn't get in? For your information, transferring between CAS and CALS or ILR is super easy. If CAS is really what you want, feel fee to do so. Most people don't bother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We need to know GPA as related to their class.

If a top private school sends 40% to top30 schools you can count on at least half of them being hooked (in obvious and hidden (i.e. board member rec) ways).

It may be that the only kids getting into top20 or even top30 schools ON THEIR OWN (no hooks, no donations, no board member etc recs) are top15% in the class. I would estimate this to be the case at my kid's private. 40% go to a top30 ("OOO! so impressive!" at first glance but behind the scenes there is so much extra stuff going on).

This is the answer. OP, a rejection (not deferral) means they were not close. Add some target T16-40 schools in RD. Listen to what the school counselor says about chances.

Our private: 10-12% of the class get into T15/ivy. The UNHOOKED ones make up about 2/3 of the admits and are always from the top 5ish% of the class with regard to rigor, GPA, and scores 1530+. People do not understand how hooks work and how many are hooked. Our school removes hooked from the SCOIR data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to know GPA as related to their class.

If a top private school sends 40% to top30 schools you can count on at least half of them being hooked (in obvious and hidden (i.e. board member rec) ways).

It may be that the only kids getting into top20 or even top30 schools ON THEIR OWN (no hooks, no donations, no board member etc recs) are top15% in the class. I would estimate this to be the case at my kid's private. 40% go to a top30 ("OOO! so impressive!" at first glance but behind the scenes there is so much extra stuff going on).

This is the answer. OP, a rejection (not deferral) means they were not close. Add some target T16-40 schools in RD. Listen to what the school counselor says about chances.

Our private: 10-12% of the class get into T15/ivy. The UNHOOKED ones make up about 2/3 of the admits and are always from the top 5ish% of the class with regard to rigor, GPA, and scores 1530+. People do not understand how hooks work and how many are hooked. Our school removes hooked from the SCOIR data.

Can you explain what hook really means?

[Anonymous]

I can recommend Pitt and Michigan.

However, unless you've already applied to Pitt and been accepted to the Honors College, it's too late to enter as an Honors College admit. Michael Chabon, the prominent novelist, graduated from Pitt.

Michigan might be interested in a late app from an English major with high SATs. Michigan has a Residential College with a tradition of putting on a Shakespeare play in the summer.

Cornell does accept transfers although it is competitive and a lot are directed to waitlisters for freshman year. Going to SUNY Binghamton and transferring is not an unusual idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the GPA is low(er)? They are only top 30 percent? Did the counselor advise ED to Cornell?? That seems really odd and a waste of ED. You have to go down the ranks like Tufts BC EDII. Add U Rochester Case Western Pitt to the RD rounds.

I kind of agree with this. The "40% to top 30 schools" is probably WAY inflated by hooked kids.

If Cornell was a denial then I would do something similar ED2 (WashU, Emory, Tufts) and then make sure you go to Rochester, CWRU, in RD.

In my experience with a decent but not top 10% kid from a "top private" who got deferred from a lesser Ivy last year---RD was pretty bad for top30s. They got into 2 of 20+ schools in the top35. A lot of deferrals and denials.
You don't want to get shut out. Maybe sure they have a lot of matches and safeties in RD and I would definitely ED2. My kid did not and we regretted it.

My friend's DC had the opposite experience. Deferred in ED1 (Ivy, non-HYP), did not panic and did not ED2, and then got into to 2 stronger Ivies in RD, plus the one that deferred her, plus Williams and a couple of other top schools. Ended up at HYP (not the ED1).

[Anonymous]

They aren't getting into Hopkins or Rice for ED2 especially when Hopkins has 99% of freshman in top 10% of class and Rice is 92%. Class rank is important at both schools. Would be a complete waste of an app.

Posters here are dumb. If they didn't get into Cornell ED, low chance at Hopkins or Rice ED2 which is typically more selective than Cornell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Johns Hopkins - excellent humanities and social sciences (econ, IR)!

WashU - like Princeton but in St. Louis

Williams - no essays, just share a graded assignment

Neither Hopkins or Williams is taking outside top twenty percent of class.

Hopkins takes top 10%, Williams either hooked or top15% (which overlap a lot).

Williams unhooked is harder to get into than Hopkins. Full stop.

Williams admissions is super unimpressive. 51% of the class submits test scores and they have higher acceptance rates and lower freshman stats vs hopkins, rice, and other schools mentioned here. No it is not harder unhooked. "full stop".

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure that the opportunities missed at Cornell are that great for a prospective humanities major. At least several liberal arts colleges may be as, or more, academically suitable. Examples include Williams, Hamilton, Colgate, Haverford, Bates, Kenyon and Oberlin. Local guidance will help you determine likelihood of admission at these schools and whether or not an ED II application may be advisable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the GPA is low(er)? They are only top 30 percent? Did the counselor advise ED to Cornell?? That seems really odd and a waste of ED. You have to go down the ranks like Tufts BC EDII. Add U Rochester Case Western Pitt to the RD rounds.

I kind of agree with this. The "40% to top 30 schools" is probably WAY inflated by hooked kids.

If Cornell was a denial then I would do something similar ED2 (WashU, Emory, Tufts) and then make sure you go to Rochester, CWRU, in RD.

In my experience with a decent but not top 10% kid from a "top private" who got deferred from a lesser Ivy last year---RD was pretty bad for top30s. They got into 2 of 20+ schools in the top35. A lot of deferrals and denials.
You don't want to get shut out. Maybe sure they have a lot of matches and safeties in RD and I would definitely ED2. My kid did not and we regretted it.

My friend's DC had the opposite experience. Deferred in ED1 (Ivy, non-HYP), did not panic and did not ED2, and then got into to 2 stronger Ivies in RD, plus the one that deferred her, plus Williams and a couple of other top schools. Ended up at HYP (not the ED1).

And was not in the top 20 percent of class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the GPA is low(er)? They are only top 30 percent? Did the counselor advise ED to Cornell?? That seems really odd and a waste of ED. You have to go down the ranks like Tufts BC EDII. Add U Rochester Case Western Pitt to the RD rounds.

I kind of agree with this. The "40% to top 30 schools" is probably WAY inflated by hooked kids.

If Cornell was a denial then I would do something similar ED2 (WashU, Emory, Tufts) and then make sure you go to Rochester, CWRU, in RD.

In my experience with a decent but not top 10% kid from a "top private" who got deferred from a lesser Ivy last year---RD was pretty bad for top30s. They got into 2 of 20+ schools in the top35. A lot of deferrals and denials.
You don't want to get shut out. Maybe sure they have a lot of matches and safeties in RD and I would definitely ED2. My kid did not and we regretted it.

My friend's DC had the opposite experience. Deferred in ED1 (Ivy, non-HYP), did not panic and did not ED2, and then got into to 2 stronger Ivies in RD, plus the one that deferred her, plus Williams and a couple of other top schools. Ended up at HYP (not the ED1).

OP’s kid was rejected, not deferred, meaning the app was considered not within ballpark of their qualified candidates at Cornell, which knows it needs to take applicants a level below HYP-caliber kids in RD. Also unhooked top 30% applicants don’t get into HYP, not even from Andover, Dalton or TJ.

If OP’s kid isn’t excited about any ED2 options and wants to focus on RD schools, that’s totally fine, but don’t tell her they have a chance at HYP. It’s that kind of false hope spread around message boards that got them to overshoot and ended up here in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Cornell defers about 25% ED applicants. This is a selective deferral. The rest got rejected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cornell defers about 25% ED applicants. This is a selective deferral. The rest got rejected.

Any idea what % of referred get admitted in RD?