Pete Hegseth's pastor...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

So some kinds of slavery are…defensible?

Oh yeah, all kinds of things are defensible if you take the bible as god's word and the earth's truth. Kill your daughter, kill your wife, enslave your neighbor, require a widow to choose between marrying her brother in law or being stoned to death... The bible is just a terrific model for a kind and productive society.

+1000. And yet they are still able to not only convince people this book of myths is true, but that it is a GOOD thing...marketing at its finest lol

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

So some kinds of slavery are…defensible?

Oh yeah, all kinds of things are defensible if you take the bible as god's word and the earth's truth. Kill your daughter, kill your wife, enslave your neighbor, require a widow to choose between marrying her brother in law or being stoned to death... The bible is just a terrific model for a kind and productive society.

+1000. And yet they are still able to not only convince people this book of myths is true, but that it is a GOOD thing...marketing at its finest lol

But only because the book of myths promises people everlasting life, if they believe in the book.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

[Anonymous]

It’s interesting to me as a Christian that so much of this thread devolves into Jesus as a moral teacher when that was not the purpose of his time on earth at all.

For sure, yes, Jesus gave moral teachings.

But if that’s all you get out of Christianity, you have missed the boat. It’s like saying football games should be judged on the number of running plays.

Here is the true point of Jesus: we are all sinners. Sin becomes aggravated in different people in different ways and scale — but the core problem of the heart is the same. Priests have way more in common with prostitutes than we typically like to recognize. Slaveowners might have a particularly awful type of sin, but it is the same sinful nature that everybody has. It is just a different form of idolatry — power, greed. It is not putting God first in your heart.

Jesus did not come to give everyone a bunch of moral teachings so they could clean up their acts and live their lives better. He came to be a savior for all who have sinned. And we do not become saved because of our own acts now, but through our faith in him. Once we have that faith, we repent and live a more Christ-like life because we so appreciative of what He has done for us. We obey out of an overflow of our heart and because we have been saved — we don’t obey to be saved. The motivational structure of the heart completely changes.

Ironically, looking at life this way makes you both humble and confident. Humble because when you realize everyone is a sinner saved by grace, you don feel superior to anyone else. You are not self-righteous anymore. And confident because no matter what happens in life, the creator of the universe sees you to the bottom and loves you to the sky. He loves you so much in fact that he was willing to die for you even when you didn’t love him. Who cares what your boss or anyone else in this world thinks of you when you have that?

You can say you don’t agree with any of this and that’s fine — but this is what Christianity is actually about. It is NOT about just following a bunch of rules or Jesus as a moral teacher about a topic such as slavery. If that’s all you have for Jesus, then you are missing the point of his life and should just ignore him all together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

Not justified, but there was a reason for it. People wanted to be cool. We don't need people for a lot of things, these days, now that we have the internet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

You say you know the Bible, but you’ve somehow missed the “what is Christianity” portion of it.

Christianity’s goal has never been perfect justice on Earth or law and order. Criticizing it on those terms is an exercise in making irrelevant arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

You say you know the Bible, but you’ve somehow missed the “what is Christianity” portion of it.

Christianity’s goal has never been perfect justice on Earth or law and order. Criticizing it on those terms is an exercise in making irrelevant arguments.

This is incorrect, and ridiculous as well. I criticize the bible as an immoral book. I criticize those that use passages of it to impose what they consider moral on others. What you say is "the goal of Christianity" is both irrelevant to the topic and to me in general. That's the ridiculous part. This entire thread is about the biblical position on slavery.

What is incorrect is your claim that people here don't know the bible. They have demonstrated they sure do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

You say you know the Bible, but you’ve somehow missed the “what is Christianity” portion of it.

Christianity’s goal has never been perfect justice on Earth or law and order. Criticizing it on those terms is an exercise in making irrelevant arguments.

This is incorrect, and ridiculous as well. I criticize the bible as an immoral book. I criticize those that use passages of it to impose what they consider moral on others. What you say is "the goal of Christianity" is both irrelevant to the topic and to me in general. That's the ridiculous part. This entire thread is about the biblical position on slavery.

What is incorrect is your claim that people here don't know the bible. They have demonstrated they sure do.

I notice that religious people with deep knowledge of the Bible often criticize other people, who may also have deep knowledge of the Bible, but interpret it differently.

These days, there are also lots of atheists with deep knowledge of the Bible, because they acquired it when they were religious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

You say you know the Bible, but you’ve somehow missed the “what is Christianity” portion of it.

Christianity’s goal has never been perfect justice on Earth or law and order. Criticizing it on those terms is an exercise in making irrelevant arguments.

This is incorrect, and ridiculous as well. I criticize the bible as an immoral book. I criticize those that use passages of it to impose what they consider moral on others. What you say is "the goal of Christianity" is both irrelevant to the topic and to me in general. That's the ridiculous part. This entire thread is about the biblical position on slavery.

What is incorrect is your claim that people here don't know the bible. They have demonstrated they sure do.

Very few actual verses are being discussed here and I suspect the people discussing the verses about slavery have not actually read them beyond the blog post posted earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

You say you know the Bible, but you’ve somehow missed the “what is Christianity” portion of it.

Christianity’s goal has never been perfect justice on Earth or law and order. Criticizing it on those terms is an exercise in making irrelevant arguments.

This is incorrect, and ridiculous as well. I criticize the bible as an immoral book. I criticize those that use passages of it to impose what they consider moral on others. What you say is "the goal of Christianity" is both irrelevant to the topic and to me in general. That's the ridiculous part. This entire thread is about the biblical position on slavery.

What is incorrect is your claim that people here don't know the bible. They have demonstrated they sure do.

I notice that religious people with deep knowledge of the Bible often criticize other people, who may also have deep knowledge of the Bible, but interpret it differently.

These days, there are also lots of atheists with deep knowledge of the Bible, because they acquired it when they were religious.

And former Catholics who never knew much about the Bible, because they focused on Catechism, learned about the Bible on their road to atheism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

You say you know the Bible, but you’ve somehow missed the “what is Christianity” portion of it.

Christianity’s goal has never been perfect justice on Earth or law and order. Criticizing it on those terms is an exercise in making irrelevant arguments.

This is incorrect, and ridiculous as well. I criticize the bible as an immoral book. I criticize those that use passages of it to impose what they consider moral on others. What you say is "the goal of Christianity" is both irrelevant to the topic and to me in general. That's the ridiculous part. This entire thread is about the biblical position on slavery.

What is incorrect is your claim that people here don't know the bible. They have demonstrated they sure do.

Very few actual verses are being discussed here and I suspect the people discussing the verses about slavery have not actually read them beyond the blog post posted earlier.

So what? The whole Bible is open to interpretation. That's one of the reasons that there are so many different Christian religions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we think of slavery as the odious and indefensible North Atlantic slave trade, but Abraham had slaves. I mean what was Hagar but a slave? I can't be bothered to look them up right now, but there are numerous passages in the Bible that condone the practice of slavery.

We think of slavery as odious and indefensible because it is. Slavery deprives a human being of free will and self determination. It treats people as property and deprives people of their humanity. Even slavers understand that slavery is dehumanizing because slavers almost never choose to enslave groups with whom they self identify -- throughout history, slavery has been practice imposed on racial and ethnic minorities deemed as less evolved and more animalistic than the ruling majority, in order to justify treating them in this way.

The fact that the Bible frequently condones slavery (or is like "well just treat your slaves nicely, please") is a good reason to be skeptical about strict, originalist interpretations of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. Which has all kinds of crazy practices, including human sacrifice, polygamy, and other things we now reject.

+1 and don't forget that the Bible gives explicit instructions on where to buy your slaves, how to trick them into staying with you for life, and most importantly, how to beat them.

In those days, slaves were needed because labor saving devices (e.g., the fan) had not yet been invented. So, of course the Bible, a human document, condoned slavery.

Understand the difference between need and want. Slaves were not needed, they were wanted.

There is also never an excuse or justification for it.

I'm fine with considering the Bible to be marketing but it's kind of depressing how little the people in this thread actually know about the Bible or the basics of Western civilization beyond what they read about it in a blog post.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but you provide no evidence of it. It sounds like everyone here knows the Bible reasonably well.

But you keep hammering away with ad hominem if that’s all ya got.

You say you know the Bible, but you’ve somehow missed the “what is Christianity” portion of it.

Christianity’s goal has never been perfect justice on Earth or law and order. Criticizing it on those terms is an exercise in making irrelevant arguments.

This is incorrect, and ridiculous as well. I criticize the bible as an immoral book. I criticize those that use passages of it to impose what they consider moral on others. What you say is "the goal of Christianity" is both irrelevant to the topic and to me in general. That's the ridiculous part. This entire thread is about the biblical position on slavery.

What is incorrect is your claim that people here don't know the bible. They have demonstrated they sure do.

I notice that religious people with deep knowledge of the Bible often criticize other people, who may also have deep knowledge of the Bible, but interpret it differently.

These days, there are also lots of atheists with deep knowledge of the Bible, because they acquired it when they were religious.

It’s quite self-righteous and arrogant for athesists today to think they have special insights on religion and the Bible. None of their arguments are new. Jews have always been marginalized back to the time of Egypt. Jesus himself was then rejected by both Gentiles and Jews. All throughout history, there have been people who have said that Christianity isn’t true and have worked very hard to try to prove that — sometimes through violence or oppression. There are volumes and volumes already written about this. The entire Enlightnment movement was based on the core idea that we should leave Christianity behind.

And yet here we are living in a world where Christianity is on the rise globally, and the church bleeding has stopped in the United States. It’s almost like there is something cosmic about the Bible after all ….