How is everyone affording all of this international travel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

Not PP you are responding to here. Heck of a deal to get to New Zealand, it's VERY difficult to find saver business availability to Australia/NZ. It's not realistic for most people to expect to pay those kids of miles costs- I am sure you worked quite hard searching for that award, and probably were pretty flexible with the dates. But in any case, great work on a very good award.

And to PP, people who are using points for business class overseas for a whole family are either:

1. Major business travelers with high elite status, so they get both lots of miles and have upgrade certificates (like United PlusPoints) they can use.

2. Rich people who just spend a lot of money on cards and have a lot of points. Like hundreds of thousands/millions a year.

3. Card churners who get lots of sign up bonuses and know the awards game well, like this poster clearly does.

Definitely not a common thing, is the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it hilarious how many posts in this thread there are where the real answer is “I’m rich” but the poster still includes a lot of details about how virtuous they are as cope. “We have a 7 figure HHI so we can afford basically any kind of travel BUT ALSO I rollerblade to work so that’s somehow relevant”

DP

Eh, we have a HHI north of $350, but we have a very low mortgage, stuck with public schools, drive our cars until they die, don’t redecorate for fun, etc. Basically, we don’t blow money on a lot of things others do so we have more money to spend on travel.

Honestly, we don’t drink, and I believe we’ve saved thousands each year because of it. I’m shocked by how much people spend on beer, wine, and booze each week—whether they drink at home or at bars. I challenge drinkers to do the math and see for themselves.

Speculating you save “thousands” through the virtue of not drinking? Wow great work being an even worse example of what I’m saying 😂

If you know people who buy multiple bottles of fancy wine each week plus whatever fancy beer and booze for their DH AND however much they spend going out Friday and Saturday night, then you realize how much some people blow on drinking. I know this because I have friends and family like this who openly comment on how nice it must be to have money to travel as much as we do, and I’ve helped them run the numbers. In short: it’s an eye opening exercise for many people.

Sorry if I hit a nerve, pp.

You did not “hit a nerve.” Of course there are endless ways to blow a fortune—including international travel. But the key is to start with a fortune.

Okay.

But the same truth applies to people with less money. And fwiw, our HHI wasn’t always as high as it is now, but we still had disposable income for travel. A big part of it was living within our means and saving. We never were house poor even when we bought our first home when our HHI was closer to $100k.

I’m still wearing coats I bought in grad school. I have a handful of outfits I rotate each season and many of the pieces are 5+ years old.

I haven’t bought jewelry in 30 years. My DH bought a few nice pieces for me early on and that’s what I wear.

I don’t get manicures. I don’t buy tons of costly beauty products.

This is sort of how the stereotypical New England affluent lady rolls: less is more. Focus on a few nice things and that’s all you need.

Ok, well, I spend about $2k/yr on manicures and Botox and getting foils in my hair and it doesn’t make or break our international travel. Because a high income can support a lot of consumption including in the form of international travel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

Not PP you are responding to here. Heck of a deal to get to New Zealand, it's VERY difficult to find saver business availability to Australia/NZ. It's not realistic for most people to expect to pay those kids of miles costs- I am sure you worked quite hard searching for that award, and probably were pretty flexible with the dates. But in any case, great work on a very good award.

And to PP, people who are using points for business class overseas for a whole family are either:

1. Major business travelers with high elite status, so they get both lots of miles and have upgrade certificates (like United PlusPoints) they can use.

2. Rich people who just spend a lot of money on cards and have a lot of points. Like hundreds of thousands/millions a year.

3. Card churners who get lots of sign up bonuses and know the awards game well, like this poster clearly does.

Definitely not a common thing, is the point.

Oceania is a pain in the ass to find space but AA has been doing a lot of dynamic price shifting. They have several routes they’re deploying their new 787P with their new flagship product like DFW-BNE/AKL. They aren’t charging for the “throne” seats yet so managed to snag those on the way back. I’ve also seen some decent availability on NAN-LAX. Just takes a lot of alert setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

Not PP you are responding to here. Heck of a deal to get to New Zealand, it's VERY difficult to find saver business availability to Australia/NZ. It's not realistic for most people to expect to pay those kids of miles costs- I am sure you worked quite hard searching for that award, and probably were pretty flexible with the dates. But in any case, great work on a very good award.

And to PP, people who are using points for business class overseas for a whole family are either:

1. Major business travelers with high elite status, so they get both lots of miles and have upgrade certificates (like United PlusPoints) they can use.

2. Rich people who just spend a lot of money on cards and have a lot of points. Like hundreds of thousands/millions a year.

3. Card churners who get lots of sign up bonuses and know the awards game well, like this poster clearly does.

Definitely not a common thing, is the point.

Oceania is a pain in the ass to find space but AA has been doing a lot of dynamic price shifting. They have several routes they’re deploying their new 787P with their new flagship product like DFW-BNE/AKL. They aren’t charging for the “throne” seats yet so managed to snag those on the way back. I’ve also seen some decent availability on NAN-LAX. Just takes a lot of alert setting.

Ha great example of group 3, I understood all of that, but understandably probably 99% of the people here wouldn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it hilarious how many posts in this thread there are where the real answer is “I’m rich” but the poster still includes a lot of details about how virtuous they are as cope. “We have a 7 figure HHI so we can afford basically any kind of travel BUT ALSO I rollerblade to work so that’s somehow relevant”

DP

Eh, we have a HHI north of $350, but we have a very low mortgage, stuck with public schools, drive our cars until they die, don’t redecorate for fun, etc. Basically, we don’t blow money on a lot of things others do so we have more money to spend on travel.

Honestly, we don’t drink, and I believe we’ve saved thousands each year because of it. I’m shocked by how much people spend on beer, wine, and booze each week—whether they drink at home or at bars. I challenge drinkers to do the math and see for themselves.

Speculating you save “thousands” through the virtue of not drinking? Wow great work being an even worse example of what I’m saying 😂

If you know people who buy multiple bottles of fancy wine each week plus whatever fancy beer and booze for their DH AND however much they spend going out Friday and Saturday night, then you realize how much some people blow on drinking. I know this because I have friends and family like this who openly comment on how nice it must be to have money to travel as much as we do, and I’ve helped them run the numbers. In short: it’s an eye opening exercise for many people.

Sorry if I hit a nerve, pp.

You did not “hit a nerve.” Of course there are endless ways to blow a fortune—including international travel. But the key is to start with a fortune.

Okay.

But the same truth applies to people with less money. And fwiw, our HHI wasn’t always as high as it is now, but we still had disposable income for travel. A big part of it was living within our means and saving. We never were house poor even when we bought our first home when our HHI was closer to $100k.

I’m still wearing coats I bought in grad school. I have a handful of outfits I rotate each season and many of the pieces are 5+ years old.

I haven’t bought jewelry in 30 years. My DH bought a few nice pieces for me early on and that’s what I wear.

I don’t get manicures. I don’t buy tons of costly beauty products.

This is sort of how the stereotypical New England affluent lady rolls: less is more. Focus on a few nice things and that’s all you need.

That's all fine and dandy- we are pretty similar. But let's not kid ourselves- if we were each making $50k/year we wouldn't be traveling much at all.

Did the op say their HHI is $50k?

Yes, it would be a stretch for someone earning $50k a year to travel internationally, but it’s possible if they are single and don’t have kids.

I have young colleagues who probably earn $60k and they travel well. One disclosed she had challenged herself to drink coffee at work and meal plan with an eye towards saving up for a big trip to Europe. She did it. You have to cut costs somewhere, save up, and search for a cheap flight. And she leveraged points from flights related to business travel.

[Anonymous]

Depending on location, it could be cheaper than the US for things like hotels, restaurants and activities. I am talking about major cities like or Paris, which would be comparable to US.

We went to Austria for a vacation, managed to buy tickets relatively cheap (it wasn’t a peak travel season), and once we got there, kids under 12 travel free, most museum tickets also free for kids under 12, train tickets to see other cities were really cheap compared to US (and again either free or very reduced for kids), the hotel price was comparable. So on balance, the difference was not major even taking into account tickets.

If you compare to driving and camping, then yes, it’s much more expensive, but if compare to flying within the US and renting or staying at a hotel, then it’s pretty comparable (depending on destination).

So, if able to get tickets not too expensive or with points, then it can end up being cheaper than flying for example to California or renting a house at the beach in the US.

Also, many have family elsewhere, so travel back home and combine with a stop over on way there or back, or travel while in home country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We use points for flights for our family of 4, and charge everything to get those points (cc bill paid in full every month). Stay in AirBnBs, eat breakfast in the AirBnB, inexpensive lunches, and maybe one expensive dinner out in a week, but mostly fairly casual - we value the experiences and try to eat where the locals eat, not the touristy places

I sometimes find package deals that are less expensive, or do a Costco trip over Christmas - they are way less money.

Not understanding how the points don't run out at some point. If you get say, average 2 pts per dollar spent (amex) and a single premium economy flight is 50,000 points that's charging 25,000 for one 'free' plane ticket. Don't people using points have to get them from sign-on bonuses and constant business travel as well?

Just paid for our Christmas European flights with points (one international trip per year with points, could be Christmas, could be spring break, not usually summer but could be). No sign on bonus, and annual bonus is in the $2-$5k range.

[Anonymous]

People should really check out air/hotel package deals through airlines. Sure, you might not find a nonstop flight and the hotel won’t be a five star, but you absolutely can find great deals.

To wit: there’s another thread where a family of 5 is looking for tips on reasonably priced winter break trips, and I found air and hotel packages on BA to Paris for $1,200pp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please just help me understand.

I buy tickets 6-9 months in advance for any international travel. I have signed up at different websites so I receive deals in my inbox almost daily. One out of the 50 deals I see match what I am looking for. I have never spent more than $500/- per person for economy airfare. I have paid as little as &300/- pp for airfare to Europe.

Once I buy cheap ticket CT’s, I immediately check 3-4 travel websites ( Expedia, kayak, agoda, TripAdvisor etc) and book hotel/hostel/b&b etc. I usually save 50% by booking this early. Also, we spend very little time in our hotel so we look for one with minimal amenities but at the heart of town so ease of walking around/transportation access etc.

Also, we rarely do check in bags
(save money) for most travel to Central America, Europe and Middle East. This is also because we travel with children so we are usually not gone for more than week.

Lastly, we eat one meal at restaurant per day - others are at small cafes or we shops groceries and make sandwiches and buy breakfast items etc.

Hope this helps! We are UMC but are frugal when traveling.

[Anonymous]

Look for cheaper ticket with connection
spring break to Amsterdam / Oslo around $400 in the last 2 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it hilarious how many posts in this thread there are where the real answer is “I’m rich” but the poster still includes a lot of details about how virtuous they are as cope. “We have a 7 figure HHI so we can afford basically any kind of travel BUT ALSO I rollerblade to work so that’s somehow relevant”

DP

Eh, we have a HHI north of $350, but we have a very low mortgage, stuck with public schools, drive our cars until they die, don’t redecorate for fun, etc. Basically, we don’t blow money on a lot of things others do so we have more money to spend on travel.

Honestly, we don’t drink, and I believe we’ve saved thousands each year because of it. I’m shocked by how much people spend on beer, wine, and booze each week—whether they drink at home or at bars. I challenge drinkers to do the math and see for themselves.

Speculating you save “thousands” through the virtue of not drinking? Wow great work being an even worse example of what I’m saying 😂

If you know people who buy multiple bottles of fancy wine each week plus whatever fancy beer and booze for their DH AND however much they spend going out Friday and Saturday night, then you realize how much some people blow on drinking. I know this because I have friends and family like this who openly comment on how nice it must be to have money to travel as much as we do, and I’ve helped them run the numbers. In short: it’s an eye opening exercise for many people.

Sorry if I hit a nerve, pp.

You did not “hit a nerve.” Of course there are endless ways to blow a fortune—including international travel. But the key is to start with a fortune.

Okay.

But the same truth applies to people with less money. And fwiw, our HHI wasn’t always as high as it is now, but we still had disposable income for travel. A big part of it was living within our means and saving. We never were house poor even when we bought our first home when our HHI was closer to $100k.

I’m still wearing coats I bought in grad school. I have a handful of outfits I rotate each season and many of the pieces are 5+ years old.

I haven’t bought jewelry in 30 years. My DH bought a few nice pieces for me early on and that’s what I wear.

I don’t get manicures. I don’t buy tons of costly beauty products.

This is sort of how the stereotypical New England affluent lady rolls: less is more. Focus on a few nice things and that’s all you need.

Ok, well, I spend about $2k/yr on manicures and Botox and getting foils in my hair and it doesn’t make or break our international travel. Because a high income can support a lot of consumption including in the form of international travel.

Same, minus the foils since those are pretty dated now, similar to the 90s ladies still wearing blue eyeshadow in the 00s. Glossy single processed hair is the new foils and it’s a lot less $$

[Anonymous]

I travel a lot and I am rich, as in I make a high salary. But I traveled internationally in college, after college when I was making $44k, and during law school too. It’s obviously easier to travel when you make a lot of money, but you don’t have to. My standard of travel hasn't changed all that much since then. The prices of itineraries (especially flights and hotels) I tend to see here are usually expensive because it’s luxury travel or because it’s a family with kids tied to traveling at peak times because of school schedules.

But if we’re talking about prices for 1-2 adults not bound to school/peak travel schedules, an economy ticket to Europe is $500ish or less. I frequently subsidize this with credit card points, so sometimes just pay the taxes ($200 or so). I generally don’t stay at luxury hotels or corporate chain hotels - you can find perfectly nice boutique/independent hotels that are safe, clean, and in a central area in European cities for $150ish per night. I somewhat recently learned about the Chase/Hyatt points transfer (basically that Hyatts tend to be pretty cheap with points and don’t do dynamic pricing), so I’ll periodically do that. And then food/activities, for which you can go as high or low as you want.

I can actually frequently do a trip like this for cheaper than an equivalent time in a US city. Like, depending on extras/add-ons, under $2k for 2 people. Which is not that expensive.

If you’re asking how people are taking vacations where they’re flying business and staying at the Rosewood, that’s just having an insane amount of money. I’m in biglaw and still wouldn’t feel good blowing $40k+ on a vacation.

[Anonymous]

Stayed in my starter house for 20+ years, don’t buy expensive cars or electronics, and don’t spend a lot on hair, make-up, etc. Buy clothes at thrift stores or TJ Maxx.
And our International trips have been less expensive than my friends’ trips to Disney.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stayed in my starter house for 20+ years, don’t buy expensive cars or electronics, and don’t spend a lot on hair, make-up, etc. Buy clothes at thrift stores or TJ Maxx.
And our International trips have been less expensive than my friends’ trips to Disney.

PP here. ^ I have never lived this frugally, even when poor/in school, and have still managed to take multiple international trips every year. This PP probably has more in savings than I do, but it’s not necessary to live like this to afford to travel. But I do agree that international trips can be (significantly) cheaper than Disney.