How is everyone affording all of this international travel?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

You are quite hostile and rude. I looked at the reward booking options across multiple airlines and still can't find these amazing flight deals. You mentioned AA, and random midweek dates in March is still showing me 115k points plus $1,889 for business class. Next July is 410k points though taxes and fees is only $427. You didn't tell us the dates you're using so I'm guessing those are a year out?

I have spent hours plotting and strategizing these possible flights and am just not seeing these fabulous deals.

NP and I find AA miles really hard to use, especially for international travel and with multiple people. I inadvertently let my last 40k AAdvantage miles expire from inactivity and don't have the energy to call to try to find some way to earn them back, it just doesn't seem worth it. IIRC you can sometimes have better success calling them to book because not all of the eligible partner airlines are available for online booking, unless that's changed.

In general international business travel is a hard way to use points IME. It’s the goal for most people but I guess that’s why it’s so hard - demand has gotten a lot higher and most flights only have 6-8 business seats that release at the “saver” points price.

I do love AA for domestic points though. We can fly to AZ or CA for 7500-10k points each way. We’ve flown to see family in VT for 5500 points each way. I keep trying to use AA points for the Caribbean but unless you want crazy bad layovers the points prices are very high.

I agree, but so many posters are claiming on here that that is how they are able to travel so much internationally, by using points.

I have used points to travel internationally in J/F at least once a year every single year since 2014. It might be difficult for some people but it isn’t for everyone.

[Anonymous]

I would rather my children learn about other countries and cultures than take a photo with Snow White at Disney world.

We drive a Honda, we live in a condo.Different families have different values.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We do at least 3 trips a year and we...
1) have only one kid
2) live in a much smaller home than a lot of our friends, so our housing costs are so much lower
3) play the credit card points game
4) prioritize travel expenses over other non-essentials

#2 and 3 are the most important to being able to afford travel

This is my formula.

Especially two and four.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I find it hilarious how many posts in this thread there are where the real answer is “I’m rich” but the poster still includes a lot of details about how virtuous they are as cope. “We have a 7 figure HHI so we can afford basically any kind of travel BUT ALSO I rollerblade to work so that’s somehow relevant”

DP

Eh, we have a HHI north of $350, but we have a very low mortgage, stuck with public schools, drive our cars until they die, don’t redecorate for fun, etc. Basically, we don’t blow money on a lot of things others do so we have more money to spend on travel.

Honestly, we don’t drink, and I believe we’ve saved thousands each year because of it. I’m shocked by how much people spend on beer, wine, and booze each week—whether they drink at home or at bars. I challenge drinkers to do the math and see for themselves.

Can we please not turn this into an “evils of alcohol” thread? Thanks.

Well, wine around here can easily double the cost of an adult’s meal.

[Anonymous]

I think each individual is traveling less than you think, but when you hear about everyone's individual trips it adds up to sounding like a lot.

We are HHI of about $250,000 with two teens and we have done international travel once and my mom helped pay for it because it was to visit her home country and it was important to her that we all go.

Most of the people I know in a similar income bracket do a fairly local spring break trip (like NYC for a few nights or similar), see family over the holidays which sometimes involves travel, and do one bigger trip in the summer - sometimes international, sometimes a national park, sometimes a cruise, etc.

And remember the vast majority of the country is making way less than the amount I referenced and not traveling internationally at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please just help me understand.

Travel has become the No. 1 thing to brag about on social media and in conversation. More important than anything else. Travel is conversation and social status currency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please just help me understand.

Travel has become the No. 1 thing to brag about on social media and in conversation. More important than anything else. Travel is conversation and social status currency.

Yes. As is expressed in this thread ranging from thinly veiled to outright explicit, people think the morally superior form of consumption is international travel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please just help me understand.

Travel has become the No. 1 thing to brag about on social media and in conversation. More important than anything else. Travel is conversation and social status currency.

Yes. As is expressed in this thread ranging from thinly veiled to outright explicit, people think the morally superior form of consumption is international travel.

Not all of us can afford $80,000 pickup trucks that never go off road. So, we travel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have stayed in our smallish house for 25 years, we drive our cars into the ground and we send our kids to public school. Retirement savings, fully funding 529s and copious amounts of travel are where all our money goes.

Similar, we are in a small house, kids are in public school and cars are paid off. Would much rather live in a smaller dwelling to be able to travel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please just help me understand.

Travel has become the No. 1 thing to brag about on social media and in conversation. More important than anything else. Travel is conversation and social status currency.

Yes. As is expressed in this thread ranging from thinly veiled to outright explicit, people think the morally superior form of consumption is international travel.

Hmm, people on the travel forum value travel. Interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would rather my children learn about other countries and cultures than take a photo with Snow White at Disney world.

We drive a Honda, we live in a condo.Different families have different values.

You're so cool. I've been to more of the world than just about anyone and I still love Disney. This isn't a competition.

[Anonymous]

We aren't idiots buying cybertrucks or sending our kids to red states for OOS tuition.

My kids have been all over the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would rather my children learn about other countries and cultures than take a photo with Snow White at Disney world.

We drive a Honda, we live in a condo.Different families have different values.

Also the international flights may be expensive, but many countries are far cheaper to vacation in that the USA. Particularly if your benchmark is Disney vacations…

I’ve stayed in wonderful hotels and Airbnbs abroad for less than half of what I would pay in major US tourist destinations. It sometimes ends up cheaper for us to travel overseas.

[Anonymous]

Spending less on saving and investing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone mentioning points always neglect that there's always taxes and fees you still have to pay, especially for flights. 12,000 points plus $400 in tax and fees is typical for a cheap points ticket on economy to London using British Airways and Virgin as examples. Using one cent to the point, it's marginally cheaper than booking with cash. So the 50,000 points plus $200 in taxes and fees if flying to Paris or Amsterdam on KLM also isn't as great of a deal either (all assuming you use cash back as the alternative use for points).

But points can get you good deals on hotels.

OP, I have always traveled even when a broke grad student. I make a good income now but I still travel frugally. It's easy to travel cheaply in Europe while still having a good trip. The cost of living is so high in the US that a two week in Europe is partially offset by savings on consumption in the US during those two weeks. Most people traveling internationally are paying for it out of income, not family money or whatever. It’s a blend of salary and budgets. To be in the top 10% of wage earners in the US you need a salary of around $165k, and anyone making $100k+ can make an international trip happen, so assume at least 20% of Americans can afford to travel overseas. That is a lot of people.

Last but not least, flights have never been as cheap as they are now. I can buy round trip tickets to Europe slightly off season for $550 if booking far enough in advance. That is what we were paying for tickets to London 30 years ago!

I just booked round trip business from the US to New Zealand/Australia and the taxes were $75 per per person per leg, so $300 total. Cash value was ~$6500 a ticket. No one is using CPP on economy tickets.

And how many points was it? You conveniently left that off. And then compare the points + fees with the cost of an economy ticket, as that is the starting point for most people.

I'm glancing at the points calculators, business tickets to Europe typically have tax/fees starting at 500 each way. On top of 150k points. One airline seems to buck the trend and that is United, with much lower fees both economy and business, but much higher points required too. So it's a wash. Because if you're being honest, what you're probably doing is paying the cost of an economy ticket to fly business.

You can get better deals if booking much further out, 12 months, instead of six or so, but it does mean significant commitment long in advance.

It was 166k each round trip. No one is paying $400 in taxes and fees to flying to Europe unless you’re flying business with Flying Blue. Book a flight through a partner that doesn’t pass along fuel charges. I’ve never paid more than ~$70 per person per leg to fly business Europe.

I am looking at reward calculators. Virgin round trip to London from DC in March is 12k points plus $440. For economy. Upper class is well over a thousand. FlyBlue is over $600 for Amsterdam or Paris in business plus 300k+ points.

United is 305k points round trip plus $384 in business. For economy it is 71k points plus $214.

Virgin and Flying Blue pass along fuel surcharges. Here are a bunch of random upcoming business class flights I just found. DCA-JFK-LHR on AA for 70k+$5.60. IAD to DUB on Aer Lingus Via Alaska for 45k+$19. IAD to MUC On Lufthansa via Air Canada for 70k+$56. Maybe if you spent less time being smug and more time learning the hobby you'd understand how wrong you are.

You are quite hostile and rude. I looked at the reward booking options across multiple airlines and still can't find these amazing flight deals. You mentioned AA, and random midweek dates in March is still showing me 115k points plus $1,889 for business class. Next July is 410k points though taxes and fees is only $427. You didn't tell us the dates you're using so I'm guessing those are a year out?

I have spent hours plotting and strategizing these possible flights and am just not seeing these fabulous deals.

NP and I find AA miles really hard to use, especially for international travel and with multiple people. I inadvertently let my last 40k AAdvantage miles expire from inactivity and don't have the energy to call to try to find some way to earn them back, it just doesn't seem worth it. IIRC you can sometimes have better success calling them to book because not all of the eligible partner airlines are available for online booking, unless that's changed.

In general international business travel is a hard way to use points IME. It’s the goal for most people but I guess that’s why it’s so hard - demand has gotten a lot higher and most flights only have 6-8 business seats that release at the “saver” points price.

I do love AA for domestic points though. We can fly to AZ or CA for 7500-10k points each way. We’ve flown to see family in VT for 5500 points each way. I keep trying to use AA points for the Caribbean but unless you want crazy bad layovers the points prices are very high.

I agree, but so many posters are claiming on here that that is how they are able to travel so much internationally, by using points.

I have used points to travel internationally in J/F at least once a year every single year since 2014. It might be difficult for some people but it isn’t for everyone.

During peak school break periods with 4 or more seats? I highly doubt it. If it’s true, then either share how you do it, or keep it to yourself if you aren’t willing to share.