Is the IB diploma worth it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

We’re at a HS with a full IBDP, DE>AA Degree, and a large slate of AP classes. About the only ones who get into UVA are from IB. UVA knows our school’s track record and seniors who apply are assumed to be capable of completing the full program. Underclassmen without the chops are counseled out (even half-way through their junior year; to be fair, I only know of one such case now in our six yrs there). Sadly, though, there’s little aspiration (or success) at T10 or Ivies, much less abroad. It’s just not a thing for our alum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me, not really. The actual diploma program is so stress inducing that it's not worth it nor will it give a significant advantage over someone who just took a bunch of IB classes . At the end of the day, someone taking a bunch of IB classes is in the same classes as the IBDP students except the IBDP students have to do a research extensive long form essay.

This is a good thing to prepare kids for college. Every former IBDP student I have spoken to said that the IBDP made college a cake walk. And it's better for the kids to be stressed while at home with support at home than when they are away at college.

Literally every kid my daughter goes to school with who opted for the IBDP wanted out and regretted losing so much of their high school experience the last 2 yrs because of this.

Indeed, IBDP is not for everyone. Not everyone can hack it.

Not true. Everyone CAN hack it, if they truly want it. Is it worth it, as the thread question asks? No.

Np. False. Not everyone can hack it. My kid completed the full IBDP with a fair number of AP courses as well; however, many in her co-hort struggled with a good number switching to the IB certificate or dropping IB altogether. The full IBDP is a beast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IB parent

1) yes - could not get “most rigorous” at our school without it.
2) yes - strong analytical writing skills
3) yes - international HS student, and IBDP absolutely MATTERS abroad - it is listed in CVs 20 years out of secondary school

The IB teacher pp sounds like a myopic dud.

Was this a FCPS school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

We’re at a HS with a full IBDP, DE>AA Degree, and a large slate of AP classes. About the only ones who get into UVA are from IB. UVA knows our school’s track record and seniors who apply are assumed to be capable of completing the full program. Underclassmen without the chops are counseled out (even half-way through their junior year; to be fair, I only know of one such case now in our six yrs there). Sadly, though, there’s little aspiration (or success) at T10 or Ivies, much less abroad. It’s just not a thing for our alum.

Made up, UVA doesn’t give preference to IB vs AP, and the actual OP question was about the diploma. Which doesn’t matter.

[Anonymous]

https://pages.crimsoneducation.org/rs/039-NBM-750/images/FL-10-2018-ib-student-acceptance-rates-at-top-us-universities.pdf?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWTJaalltRTJOV0kzT1

https://wl.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/38/2018/09/IB_University_Acceptance_Rates.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't there an AP Research seminar course? Is it similar to IBDP's Theory of Knowledge (TOK) class?

I live in the hinterlands. I haven't heard of high schools here offering AP Seminar. Or some of the other new courses (AP Pre-Calc).

My younger child is taking AP classes but there's no unified perspective or method across AP classes. I have a hard time understanding what added value AP Seminar would have compared to TOK.

What unified perspective do you want across APs? They are supposed to be introductory college classes not Unified Theory of Everything. As if IB classes have that feature beyond some empty drivel from marketing materials.

AP Seminar can be taken as English 10, so kids are doing more challenging work early. You may not understand the added value of AP Seminar but many colleges like MIT do and give college credits. Unlike TOK that doesn’t get any.

You're awfully touchy about the value of AP's expansion of their product line. They are clearly trying to push as many courses as possible so that en masse the set more or less becomes a program of study.

DMV goes so hard on this stuff. Until DCUM, I had never even heard of kids self-studying APs when they weren't taking the class at all.

My kid did not take TOK because at our school it's taught before school and he was not getting the diploma. But the kids who took it really found it enriching. And that is the true purpose of advanced high school education. Intellectual development. Not trying to pack in credits so you can go to college for fewer total years. Which itself can be an anti-intellectual decision, even if cost-effective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't there an AP Research seminar course? Is it similar to IBDP's Theory of Knowledge (TOK) class?

I live in the hinterlands. I haven't heard of high schools here offering AP Seminar. Or some of the other new courses (AP Pre-Calc).

My younger child is taking AP classes but there's no unified perspective or method across AP classes. I have a hard time understanding what added value AP Seminar would have compared to TOK.

What unified perspective do you want across APs? They are supposed to be introductory college classes not Unified Theory of Everything. As if IB classes have that feature beyond some empty drivel from marketing materials.

AP Seminar can be taken as English 10, so kids are doing more challenging work early. You may not understand the added value of AP Seminar but many colleges like MIT do and give college credits. Unlike TOK that doesn’t get any.

You're awfully touchy about the value of AP's expansion of their product line. They are clearly trying to push as many courses as possible so that en masse the set more or less becomes a program of study.

DMV goes so hard on this stuff. Until DCUM, I had never even heard of kids self-studying APs when they weren't taking the class at all.

My kid did not take TOK because at our school it's taught before school and he was not getting the diploma. But the kids who took it really found it enriching. And that is the true purpose of advanced high school education. Intellectual development. Not trying to pack in credits so you can go to college for fewer total years. Which itself can be an anti-intellectual decision, even if cost-effective.

The point is to evaluate the worth of the IBDP. AP has something similar with their Capstone, about the same number of kids as IBDP do it, research paper, 3-4 advanced classes.

Nobody in their right mind thinks the Capstone diploma moves the needle on admissions, yet, in this thread people claim IBDP is “well regarded” by AOs, and that it drastically improves odds at top universities. That’s clearly not true.

Let’s not make TOK into something that it’s not, ie intelectual development, advanced high school education, lol at the bold words. If getting general ed classes out of the way is anti-intellectual, then I’m down.

[Anonymous]

I think it just made four years of high school unnecessarily stressful but that could be how administrators implemented it at their highly competitive school. However, my kid wanted it, got the diploma and did benefit from it.

Our other kids went AP route and it was more flexible. Also the fact that AP program was at our nearest school while IB one had a long commute, AP program made lives easier. There was more time to do extracurricular activities.

Imo its a mire student dependent decision. Its great but not for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad to think of the kids forced into doing the IB diploma program by their parents who for other reasons don't stand out. So many end up at JMU and VCU with kids who didn't do the IBDP and they wonder why they had a miserable high school experience compared to most of their peers when it didn't really pay off.

My kid did IB and I didn't force him. None of his peers were forced either. The kids who are intelligent and motivated to get into a good college are well aware that IB is a good way to do that if they're at an IB school. Their motivation is internal, not external.

And it did pay off. Those IB kids are at UVA or W&M or great OOS schools, not JMU or VCU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

They perhaps don't care if you get the diploma but they are extremely likely to know if you're IBDP. As others have said, UVA is going to be able to tell from your transcript, because they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what TOK means. Also, FCPS students at IB schools provide "student input" to their counselor who writes the recommendation letter. One of the questions on the input form is "If you are an IB Diploma candidate what is your EE about (include title if you have one)?" The counselor will probably mention it, as will the teacher who writes a separate recommendation letter if it's an IB teacher. Finally, kids can bring it to UVA's attention themselves when they submit a "student resume" that says IBDP candidate on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't there an AP Research seminar course? Is it similar to IBDP's Theory of Knowledge (TOK) class?

I live in the hinterlands. I haven't heard of high schools here offering AP Seminar. Or some of the other new courses (AP Pre-Calc).

My younger child is taking AP classes but there's no unified perspective or method across AP classes. I have a hard time understanding what added value AP Seminar would have compared to TOK.

What unified perspective do you want across APs? They are supposed to be introductory college classes not Unified Theory of Everything. As if IB classes have that feature beyond some empty drivel from marketing materials.

AP Seminar can be taken as English 10, so kids are doing more challenging work early. You may not understand the added value of AP Seminar but many colleges like MIT do and give college credits. Unlike TOK that doesn’t get any.

You're awfully touchy about the value of AP's expansion of their product line. They are clearly trying to push as many courses as possible so that en masse the set more or less becomes a program of study.

DMV goes so hard on this stuff. Until DCUM, I had never even heard of kids self-studying APs when they weren't taking the class at all.

My kid did not take TOK because at our school it's taught before school and he was not getting the diploma. But the kids who took it really found it enriching. And that is the true purpose of advanced high school education. Intellectual development. Not trying to pack in credits so you can go to college for fewer total years. Which itself can be an anti-intellectual decision, even if cost-effective.

The point is to evaluate the worth of the IBDP. AP has something similar with their Capstone, about the same number of kids as IBDP do it, research paper, 3-4 advanced classes.

Nobody in their right mind thinks the Capstone diploma moves the needle on admissions, yet, in this thread people claim IBDP is “well regarded” by AOs, and that it drastically improves odds at top universities. That’s clearly not true.

Let’s not make TOK into something that it’s not, ie intelectual development, advanced high school education, lol at the bold words. If getting general ed classes out of the way is anti-intellectual, then I’m down.

People like AP and IB because they provide rigorous coursework compared to honors and regular classes. How do you know the classes are good? Because a third independent party, colleges, say so in the form of giving credit.

New AP courses like Seminar, and Research, are a step above English 10. I’d rather my kid does Seminar instead of regular classes. I appreciate the fact that 9-10th graders have access to advanced classes, even if less demanding.

When it comes to diploma, IB, AP or even DE with their AA degree, I haven’t seen any evidence it’s better for admissions than the grades received separately for the exams. But I see a lot of parents rationalize it as “my kid did it, it was hard, it must worth something, colleges will love IBDP”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

They perhaps don't care if you get the diploma but they are extremely likely to know if you're IBDP. As others have said, UVA is going to be able to tell from your transcript, because they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what TOK means. Also, FCPS students at IB schools provide "student input" to their counselor who writes the recommendation letter. One of the questions on the input form is "If you are an IB Diploma candidate what is your EE about (include title if you have one)?" The counselor will probably mention it, as will the teacher who writes a separate recommendation letter if it's an IB teacher. Finally, kids can bring it to UVA's attention themselves when they submit a "student resume" that says IBDP candidate on it.

Being aware the student is an IBDP candidate and giving it a weight in admissions are two very different things. Please find me at link at UVA that indicates it.

[Anonymous]

I would not do it just to try to gain an edge in college admissions. If the student is looking for a challenge, wants to improve their writing skills and wants to explore the IB curriculum, then they should do the diploma. I think if they just do it because they think it will help them with college admissions, they're not going to enjoy it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't there an AP Research seminar course? Is it similar to IBDP's Theory of Knowledge (TOK) class?

I live in the hinterlands. I haven't heard of high schools here offering AP Seminar. Or some of the other new courses (AP Pre-Calc).

My younger child is taking AP classes but there's no unified perspective or method across AP classes. I have a hard time understanding what added value AP Seminar would have compared to TOK.

What unified perspective do you want across APs? They are supposed to be introductory college classes not Unified Theory of Everything. As if IB classes have that feature beyond some empty drivel from marketing materials.

AP Seminar can be taken as English 10, so kids are doing more challenging work early. You may not understand the added value of AP Seminar but many colleges like MIT do and give college credits. Unlike TOK that doesn’t get any.

You're awfully touchy about the value of AP's expansion of their product line. They are clearly trying to push as many courses as possible so that en masse the set more or less becomes a program of study.

DMV goes so hard on this stuff. Until DCUM, I had never even heard of kids self-studying APs when they weren't taking the class at all.

My kid did not take TOK because at our school it's taught before school and he was not getting the diploma. But the kids who took it really found it enriching. And that is the true purpose of advanced high school education. Intellectual development. Not trying to pack in credits so you can go to college for fewer total years. Which itself can be an anti-intellectual decision, even if cost-effective.

The point is to evaluate the worth of the IBDP. AP has something similar with their Capstone, about the same number of kids as IBDP do it, research paper, 3-4 advanced classes.

Nobody in their right mind thinks the Capstone diploma moves the needle on admissions, yet, in this thread people claim IBDP is “well regarded” by AOs, and that it drastically improves odds at top universities. That’s clearly not true.

Let’s not make TOK into something that it’s not, ie intelectual development, advanced high school education, lol at the bold words. If getting general ed classes out of the way is anti-intellectual, then I’m down.

People like AP and IB because they provide rigorous coursework compared to honors and regular classes. How do you know the classes are good? Because a third independent party, colleges, say so in the form of giving credit.

New AP courses like Seminar, and Research, are a step above English 10. I’d rather my kid does Seminar instead of regular classes. I appreciate the fact that 9-10th graders have access to advanced classes, even if less demanding.

When it comes to diploma, IB, AP or even DE with their AA degree, I haven’t seen any evidence it’s better for admissions than the grades received separately for the exams. But I see a lot of parents rationalize it as “my kid did it, it was hard, it must worth something, colleges will love IBDP”.

AP is a walk in the park compared to the full IB. The AP exams are Mickey-Mouse against the IB exams and demands of the full IB. My kid did both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't there an AP Research seminar course? Is it similar to IBDP's Theory of Knowledge (TOK) class?

I live in the hinterlands. I haven't heard of high schools here offering AP Seminar. Or some of the other new courses (AP Pre-Calc).

My younger child is taking AP classes but there's no unified perspective or method across AP classes. I have a hard time understanding what added value AP Seminar would have compared to TOK.

What unified perspective do you want across APs? They are supposed to be introductory college classes not Unified Theory of Everything. As if IB classes have that feature beyond some empty drivel from marketing materials.

AP Seminar can be taken as English 10, so kids are doing more challenging work early. You may not understand the added value of AP Seminar but many colleges like MIT do and give college credits. Unlike TOK that doesn’t get any.

You're awfully touchy about the value of AP's expansion of their product line. They are clearly trying to push as many courses as possible so that en masse the set more or less becomes a program of study.

DMV goes so hard on this stuff. Until DCUM, I had never even heard of kids self-studying APs when they weren't taking the class at all.

My kid did not take TOK because at our school it's taught before school and he was not getting the diploma. But the kids who took it really found it enriching. And that is the true purpose of advanced high school education. Intellectual development. Not trying to pack in credits so you can go to college for fewer total years. Which itself can be an anti-intellectual decision, even if cost-effective.

The point is to evaluate the worth of the IBDP. AP has something similar with their Capstone, about the same number of kids as IBDP do it, research paper, 3-4 advanced classes.

Nobody in their right mind thinks the Capstone diploma moves the needle on admissions, yet, in this thread people claim IBDP is “well regarded” by AOs, and that it drastically improves odds at top universities. That’s clearly not true.

Let’s not make TOK into something that it’s not, ie intelectual development, advanced high school education, lol at the bold words. If getting general ed classes out of the way is anti-intellectual, then I’m down.

People like AP and IB because they provide rigorous coursework compared to honors and regular classes. How do you know the classes are good? Because a third independent party, colleges, say so in the form of giving credit.

New AP courses like Seminar, and Research, are a step above English 10. I’d rather my kid does Seminar instead of regular classes. I appreciate the fact that 9-10th graders have access to advanced classes, even if less demanding.

When it comes to diploma, IB, AP or even DE with their AA degree, I haven’t seen any evidence it’s better for admissions than the grades received separately for the exams. But I see a lot of parents rationalize it as “my kid did it, it was hard, it must worth something, colleges will love IBDP”.

AP is a walk in the park compared to the full IB. The AP exams are Mickey-Mouse against the IB exams and demands of the full IB. My kid did both.

You’re just proving my point, your argument is just “my kid did it, it’s good”. Most colleges give the same credit to AP and IB classes, so I’d rather go by that objective measure instead of your subjective anecdote. I get you’re a proud parent but don’t get carried away thinking the path your kid took is the only one worth taking.