Leaving the US because it’s just not affordable anymore

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My MIL, who lives in a western European country, had a skin rash. She needed to see a dermatologist when the GP couldn't do anything more for her. First she had to wait for a letter to be mailed to her house with the appointment date and time for the derm. When she received the letter, the appt date was 6 months out. Finally, once she reached that date, she had the flu and couldn't make it to the derm that day. She ended up having to wait for another letter and then another 6 months for the appt date. Meanwhile, I need to see a derm and can get in same day. Same rigamarole happens with any kind of tests..MRIs, mammos, pap smears, echos in her country. It ends up more efficient for the patient to show up at A&E in an emergency situation to get these things taken care of but then of course the A&Es are overrun and there arent any beds and staffing is a major issue too. Its no picnic and forget about dental...people in her country dont even utilize the dentist because it's such a pain to get in and pay for.,,they just go to turkey or somewhere like that where it ends up being cheaper for the flights and procedures than it would be having it done at home.

When I need to see a dermatologist in the DC area, it's a six month wait for an appointment.

Exactly. A 6 month wait if I’m lucky enough for them to be taking new patients or referrals that day.

There's been at least a six month wait on every dermatologist practice I've tried - unless I want a cosmetic procedure.

We have to wait until Oct to see a rheumatologist. And this is in MoCo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:US is over priced. Restaurants are ridiculous. Been to Thailand a bunch of times. So many affordable eateries. And yes, it is way cheaper for That's with a Thai income. Broke my arm in Thailand. Cost $300 with NO insurance. Great care. If I were in the US, I'd probably be filing for bankruptcy right now due to the broken arm and no insurance. Will probably retire in Thailand.

DC had an infection while we were in South Korea. It cost $10 to see the doctor, no insurance. The practice was apologetic that they had to charge us.

We waited about 45min as a walk in.

Food was sooooo cheap, and good. My god.

Public transport super clean, and super cheap. I think most of our subway rides were like $1.

Clothes and skincare so much cheaper.

Clean and cheap. I want to live there. There's an expat community, and we see a lot of foreigners who were working there, so they weren't all just tourists. There are actually enclaves of expats in both Seoul and Busan.

I don't think I would live there forever, but certainly, I could live there for a few years while the US sorts itself out. I just don't like how far it is.

[Anonymous]

Inflation heading up up up.
Thanks MAGA cult of can not do math, understand econ or live in reality. This is your fault don't you dare complain about how the economy is going to tank to the likes of the great depression, food scarcity is coming and healthcare and jobs will be destroyed by 2026. It is all your fault 100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2,300 people in Europe died in a 2-week span earlier this month, due to heat. Air conditioning is not widespread in many European countries:
https://news.mongabay.com/short-article/extreme-heat-kills-at-least-2300-in-european-cities-study-estimates/

This is where things like a higher GDP come into play. In the US, amenities like air conditioning and dishwashers are standard, not a luxury, because people can afford them.

2300 people across many countries, on a continent died.

Meanwhile almost 50K people die in the US, a single country, every year due to gun violence.

Europeans are used to no a/c, though I think with climate change, some are installing it. My IL in the UK is thinking about installing one just in the upper BR.

My cousins in central Europe have A/C. They say it has become common over the years. I think some people imagine Europe ss it was in the 1980s if not earlier. People need to take off their tourist glasses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Inflation heading up up up.
Thanks MAGA cult of can not do math, understand econ or live in reality. This is your fault don't you dare complain about how the economy is going to tank to the likes of the great depression, food scarcity is coming and healthcare and jobs will be destroyed by 2026. It is all your fault 100%

While you may be right, blame the democrats for destroying education in the US and then allowing US corporations that US graduates are not qualified to work in tech and other fields. (Dismantling DoEd is a different issue and doesn’t explain why schools are not preparing students from childhood to young adulthood.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My MIL, who lives in a western European country, had a skin rash. She needed to see a dermatologist when the GP couldn't do anything more for her. First she had to wait for a letter to be mailed to her house with the appointment date and time for the derm. When she received the letter, the appt date was 6 months out. Finally, once she reached that date, she had the flu and couldn't make it to the derm that day. She ended up having to wait for another letter and then another 6 months for the appt date. Meanwhile, I need to see a derm and can get in same day. Same rigamarole happens with any kind of tests..MRIs, mammos, pap smears, echos in her country. It ends up more efficient for the patient to show up at A&E in an emergency situation to get these things taken care of but then of course the A&Es are overrun and there arent any beds and staffing is a major issue too. Its no picnic and forget about dental...people in her country dont even utilize the dentist because it's such a pain to get in and pay for.,,they just go to turkey or somewhere like that where it ends up being cheaper for the flights and procedures than it would be having it done at home.

When I need to see a dermatologist in the DC area, it's a six month wait for an appointment.

Exactly. A 6 month wait if I’m lucky enough for them to be taking new patients or referrals that day.

There's been at least a six month wait on every dermatologist practice I've tried - unless I want a cosmetic procedure.

We have to wait until Oct to see a rheumatologist. And this is in MoCo.

When I lived in NC it was a year wait to see an endocrinologist. Not sure where that pp loves where they can get in the next day for something. The wait they talk about with a national health service is nothing compared to the times I have had to wait in the US when I am paying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:US is over priced. Restaurants are ridiculous. Been to Thailand a bunch of times. So many affordable eateries. And yes, it is way cheaper for That's with a Thai income. Broke my arm in Thailand. Cost $300 with NO insurance. Great care. If I were in the US, I'd probably be filing for bankruptcy right now due to the broken arm and no insurance. Will probably retire in Thailand.

DC had an infection while we were in South Korea. It cost $10 to see the doctor, no insurance. The practice was apologetic that they had to charge us.

We waited about 45min as a walk in.

Food was sooooo cheap, and good. My god.

Public transport super clean, and super cheap. I think most of our subway rides were like $1.

Clothes and skincare so much cheaper.

Clean and cheap. I want to live there. There's an expat community, and we see a lot of foreigners who were working there, so they weren't all just tourists. There are actually enclaves of expats in both Seoul and Busan.

I don't think I would live there forever, but certainly, I could live there for a few years while the US sorts itself out. I just don't like how far it is.

Friends of mine were living in South Korea working for the US military, told them they were crazy to come back right now. They were able to get treatment for a condition their son had that no Dr they had consulted in the US could figure out. That was just an added bonus to being there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Inflation heading up up up.
Thanks MAGA cult of can not do math, understand econ or live in reality. This is your fault don't you dare complain about how the economy is going to tank to the likes of the great depression, food scarcity is coming and healthcare and jobs will be destroyed by 2026. It is all your fault 100%

While you may be right, blame the democrats for destroying education in the US and then allowing US corporations that US graduates are not qualified to work in tech and other fields. (Dismantling DoEd is a different issue and doesn’t explain why schools are not preparing students from childhood to young adulthood.)

Work visas are also supported by Rs. https://migrantinsider.com/p/lawmakers-urge-state-department-to

NAFTA was started by Reagan. https://www.heritage.org/trade/report/the-north-american-free-trade-agreement-ronald-reagans-vision-realized

Bush Jr started No Child Left Behind. https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/no-child-left-behind-an-overview/2015/04

Nixon started the EPA. https://19january2017snapshot.epa.gov/history/origins-epa_.html

Reagan and Bush both provided amnesty. https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/fact-sheet/reagan-bush-family-fairness-chronological-history/

Now we have MAGAs who:

1. don't want any foreign workers because they think Americans will fill all those jobs, including the harsh farm jobs
2. want isolationism and hate free trade
3. hate higher ed and want everyone to be blue collar workers
4. deny climate change and want to rape the land
5. want to deport even law abiding visa holders because they think, again, America is for Americans (mostly white), and medicaid recipients should be able to do the jobs that foreigners and other Americans don't want to do

Not to mention that Rs just ballooned the deficit to an all time high, on the backs of the poorest of the poor.

I left the R party during the debacle of the Iraq war, but I don't even recognize this party anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Things are ridiculously priced here.

We just got back from visiting friends working in Japan. Kyoto, Osaka, and Tokyo all had considerably less costly drinks, restaurants, groceries, train tickets, site admissions, etc. than in DC and other cities here in America.

We were getting three course meals for lunch in a Saturday in Tokyo for $12 all in.

The Japanese yen is at an all-time low against the USD,so it was cheap for you. Now compare those costs to a typical Japanese salary.

That's the key.

I left the DMV for a lower COL area about 10 years ago and lasted about 3 years.

The pay cut you take is huge. HUGE. Yes, my rent was $625/mo on a whole-ass 3 bd, 2.5 ba house to myself, but the average salary in that area was $43k/yr. I made more than that at my first job out of college. We also get spoiled being so close to everything in this area. We have 3 airports within 90 mins of each other. I can literally visit WV, VA, PA, DC, and MD all in the same day. Last weekend I left my home in VA to drive to DC to get my "medical gardening supplies", met a friend in Baltimore for lunch and gave them a ride back to my apt in VA where we got ready and drove to our college roommate's wedding in WV.

Lower COL places have fewer things to do and no public transportation to use to do those things. Concerts and theater shows only hit the biggest city, usually the state capital, when on tour. If you live in TN and want to go see Beyonce in Nashville, TN, there's no walking a few blocks from your house to catch the metro into the city. You're driving across the state and getting a hotel room, but because Nashville is a big city, it's a high COL area, so prices are the same as DC. Except whereas dropping $350/night on a hotel now with my DMV salary is nothing to me, dropping $350/night on a hotel room when you're only making $42k/yr is a LOT. Also, when all your DC area friends are booking luxury vacations and asking you to join, you can't. You literally cannot afford it, so you start losing friends and spending your time drunk scrolling on Insta and hate-liking the photos of them doing things you used to be able to afford to do before you moved to a cheaper state and took a job paying you pennies.

Want to know why the people in smalltown USA are obsessed with Jesus and local HS football? Because that's all you have. Going to the game on Friday night and church on Sunday IS their social scene. You may not be religious or believe in God, but you're going to church on Sundays because if you don't, 1, you're a total outcast, and 2. you miss out on all the hot town gossip.

I'm still looking for the magical lower COL area that's very close to a big city for entertainment but not in an area so poor that my salary makes me feel super poor.

Try chicago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you live in the DC area. There are plenty of parts of the US that have a much lower cost of living. Albuquerque for example. Or Indianapolis.

but then you're living in Indianapolis.

It really is a nice place, with everything dc has but cheaper. Google Carmel, Indiana high school tic tok video. No school in the dmv compares.

[Anonymous]

So here's the prob with living anywhere in US even if a better/lower COL... healthcare.

Apples to apples, it doesn't matter how low your living expenses are in the US, it will ALWAYS still be significantly higher because of privatized healthcare.

Also culturally, around the country, how they dine and live is always less $ than American lifestyles. If you don't live in a major metro city that has a robust public transport system, you're driving a car meaning car insurance + car expenses. It's about the cost of groceries and dining out. In many parts of the world, they aren't set up like our traditional markets where you shop for a week's worth of groceries in a day. The whole culture of dining is different.

Many parts of the world subsidize childcare in one way or another whether daycare or by parental family holiday leave and/or education. I tell you all as the mom of 2 kids- in the US, the cost of raising kids is a deal killer to leave as I'm like a walking ATM for my kids with their school activities, medical appts and follow up (braces, sick visits, anything!) and summer camps. It's just crazy $$$ to have kids in the US. If your kid has any disability incl learning like dyslexia, ADHD, needs more tutoring at school - forget about it!

So it's not an out moving to Indy or Mississippi. It's about leaving the American lifestyle. It's really as simple as that of you look at how much just goes into having a life in US. When you go to any other part of the world, while taxes may take a certain toll, overall, the standard of living is still different enough that you really don't require as much. When Americans talk about how much "better" life is in US because it's a richer country, it's not about being rich as it's about do many opportunities to live a certain lifestyle. It is more convenient to drive, have 50 brands to shop for, go to a big ass grocery store daily and get everything you need for a wk. it's easier having a big house, etc. but it's expensive.

The US is the BEST place to live for the rich because it's the easiest lifestyle to live but being poor in other places is the easiest because it's about a simple lifestyle. You just don't need as much and it'll always be less than what you find in US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The poorest US state (Mississippi) will soon surpass the richest EU country (Germany) in GDP per capita. All other US states are ahead:

https://www.euronews.com/business/2025/01/03/the-poorest-us-state-rivals-germany-gdp-per-capita-in-the-us-and-europe

I've lived in Europe before. There's an old saying: The US is a great place to be rich, and an awful place to be poor. Europe is a great place to be poor, and an awful place to be rich.

Strange. In Germany, there are good schools and good healthcare. I wonder who takes all the money in MS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The poorest US state (Mississippi) will soon surpass the richest EU country (Germany) in GDP per capita. All other US states are ahead:

https://www.euronews.com/business/2025/01/03/the-poorest-us-state-rivals-germany-gdp-per-capita-in-the-us-and-europe

I've lived in Europe before. There's an old saying: The US is a great place to be rich, and an awful place to be poor. Europe is a great place to be poor, and an awful place to be rich.

But that statistic doesn’t address inequality. What is the median wealth/income in both places? America has some extremely wealthy people that mask the huge number of people in poverty doing averages.

also that saying is outdated- any person who earns a wage is better off in any other developed country. I am an expat who is in Central Europe and we have mandatory insurance instead of covered healthcare and we still are better off b/c it's a functioning society and necessities aren't as expensive as the states. I guess if I was budget shopping at Aldi (but we do have Aldi and SPAR !! here) I'd find it super expensive but going from whole foods/MOMS to coop, it's perfectly fine. I have zero desire to move back just because/c I feel like at least I have functioning infrastructure, good schooling and just a less stressful life experience here and we are saving $ b/c we basically only spend on travel. maybe if you are a millionaire it would be harder but honestly- the highest tax brackets in the USA are only a few percentage lower and and you start self-financing stuff like schooling, concierge medicine, private HOA infrastructure for your town/village/gated community etc. and can't really use the government provided stuff b/c it is SO bad in the USA. Here you can utilize the government stuff with self-pay medicine to get in to see a specialist but the municipal pools, schools, hospitals etc are all really good and included in taxes. basically we paid 5% less tax in the US than here BUT we got nothing for our taxes- schools sucked, roads sucked, no pool, bad parks comparatively speaking and had to pay for parking, nonexistent public transport so had drag kids around to activities and they can go by themselves and its completely safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone done this recently and where did you go? I’m born and raised here and I am finding the high cost of living and poor quality of living compared to what it cost to be here unbearable at this point.

What do you have to offer another country?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:2,300 people in Europe died in a 2-week span earlier this month, due to heat. Air conditioning is not widespread in many European countries:
https://news.mongabay.com/short-article/extreme-heat-kills-at-least-2300-in-european-cities-study-estimates/

This is where things like a higher GDP come into play. In the US, amenities like air conditioning and dishwashers are standard, not a luxury, because people can afford them.

its not just affordability- I have a friend who's husband is the CEO of a very exclusive watch company and we were chatting about the heatwave before it happened and she goes 'oh I like the heart- look fwd to it all winter, we don't have an a/c". They just aren't used to the extreme heat and since the know that a/c makes the general problem worse- they don't realize what wonderful band aid it is. in the really hot countries like Italy and spain- they have a/c. my biggest problem is the lack of screens- is many bugs flying in our house! & touché on the its so great here- why are you wasting time on dcum- a question I ask myself a lot!! but its a bad habit and we are expats, will have to move back eventually bar some really great further opportunity.