Leaving the US because it’s just not affordable anymore

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone done this recently and where did you go? I’m born and raised here and I am finding the high cost of living and poor quality of living compared to what it cost to be here unbearable at this point.

Zimbabwe is quite affordable.

[Anonymous]

Things are ridiculously priced here.

We just got back from visiting friends working in Japan. Kyoto, Osaka, and Tokyo all had considerably less costly drinks, restaurants, groceries, train tickets, site admissions, etc. than in DC and other cities here in America.

We were getting three course meals for lunch in a Saturday in Tokyo for $12 all in.

During and after COVID, USA jacked up all the prices on goods, services, and food and left them there sky high. Between that and stimulus and increasing costs m, min wages, and everything else a lot of things here no longer make sense. especially eating out, movies and most groceries.

So depressing.

Go anywhere Op, seriously. Something is wrong here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Things are ridiculously priced here.

We just got back from visiting friends working in Japan. Kyoto, Osaka, and Tokyo all had considerably less costly drinks, restaurants, groceries, train tickets, site admissions, etc. than in DC and other cities here in America.

We were getting three course meals for lunch in a Saturday in Tokyo for $12 all in.

The Japanese yen is at an all-time low against the USD,so it was cheap for you. Now compare those costs to a typical Japanese salary.

[Anonymous]

2,300 people in Europe died in a 2-week span earlier this month, due to heat. Air conditioning is not widespread in many European countries:
https://news.mongabay.com/short-article/extreme-heat-kills-at-least-2300-in-european-cities-study-estimates/

This is where things like a higher GDP come into play. In the US, amenities like air conditioning and dishwashers are standard, not a luxury, because people can afford them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Things are ridiculously priced here.

We just got back from visiting friends working in Japan. Kyoto, Osaka, and Tokyo all had considerably less costly drinks, restaurants, groceries, train tickets, site admissions, etc. than in DC and other cities here in America.

We were getting three course meals for lunch in a Saturday in Tokyo for $12 all in.

The Japanese yen is at an all-time low against the USD,so it was cheap for you. Now compare those costs to a typical Japanese salary.

That's the key.

I left the DMV for a lower COL area about 10 years ago and lasted about 3 years.

The pay cut you take is huge. HUGE. Yes, my rent was $625/mo on a whole-ass 3 bd, 2.5 ba house to myself, but the average salary in that area was $43k/yr. I made more than that at my first job out of college. We also get spoiled being so close to everything in this area. We have 3 airports within 90 mins of each other. I can literally visit WV, VA, PA, DC, and MD all in the same day. Last weekend I left my home in VA to drive to DC to get my "medical gardening supplies", met a friend in Baltimore for lunch and gave them a ride back to my apt in VA where we got ready and drove to our college roommate's wedding in WV.

Lower COL places have fewer things to do and no public transportation to use to do those things. Concerts and theater shows only hit the biggest city, usually the state capital, when on tour. If you live in TN and want to go see Beyonce in Nashville, TN, there's no walking a few blocks from your house to catch the metro into the city. You're driving across the state and getting a hotel room, but because Nashville is a big city, it's a high COL area, so prices are the same as DC. Except whereas dropping $350/night on a hotel now with my DMV salary is nothing to me, dropping $350/night on a hotel room when you're only making $42k/yr is a LOT. Also, when all your DC area friends are booking luxury vacations and asking you to join, you can't. You literally cannot afford it, so you start losing friends and spending your time drunk scrolling on Insta and hate-liking the photos of them doing things you used to be able to afford to do before you moved to a cheaper state and took a job paying you pennies.

Want to know why the people in smalltown USA are obsessed with Jesus and local HS football? Because that's all you have. Going to the game on Friday night and church on Sunday IS their social scene. You may not be religious or believe in God, but you're going to church on Sundays because if you don't, 1, you're a total outcast, and 2. you miss out on all the hot town gossip.

I'm still looking for the magical lower COL area that's very close to a big city for entertainment but not in an area so poor that my salary makes me feel super poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like many Europeans cities have housing crises at the moment, with foreigners buying up lots of apartments in the cities. I guess small towns are easier, but it's not like most of Europe is making it super easy to move there.

I would also think seriously about the healthcare. I know it's cheaper, more accessible, but it's really not as good. My kid just had a simple MRSA infection and I was googling to get more info, and found tons of reddit threads from people in the UK asking for quick remedies because they couldn't get into see anyone for weeks. Healthcare isn't great here, but I think it's worse there. And query how the EU increased defense costs are going to impact that. I just would be reluctant to uproot my life here, where at least I'm a citizen, and move to a country where I'm always going to have some uncertainty about my status AND be far from family. (Clearly I don't have my immigrant grandparents' spirit!)

If I was going to do it, I think I'd pick Ireland, maybe something like Waterford County. It's not far from Dublin, shorter flight to US, fewer cultural barriers, and lots of cheap under utilized land.

I speak Spanish pretty well so could manage a spanish speaking country, but I think that Spain is pretty well sick of Brits and Americans moving there, and I feel like I'd either be in one of those tacky expat communities, or I'd always be "other." 30 years ago when I was backpacking through Mexico I met an American couple that ran a smoothie and breakfast place in Isla Mujeres -- that seemed like a totally great life, but that was before the island got built up by the big hotel chains. I don't know where I'd be willing to go now, between the cartel issues and all the development.

The poinr on health care is vastly overgeneralized. Europe is very diverse. Quality of care in Austria or Germany is not the same as in Greece.

[Anonymous]

US is over priced. Restaurants are ridiculous. Been to Thailand a bunch of times. So many affordable eateries. And yes, it is way cheaper for That's with a Thai income. Broke my arm in Thailand. Cost $300 with NO insurance. Great care. If I were in the US, I'd probably be filing for bankruptcy right now due to the broken arm and no insurance. Will probably retire in Thailand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The poorest US state (Mississippi) will soon surpass the richest EU country (Germany) in GDP per capita. All other US states are ahead:

https://www.euronews.com/business/2025/01/03/the-poorest-us-state-rivals-germany-gdp-per-capita-in-the-us-and-europe

I've lived in Europe before. There's an old saying: The US is a great place to be rich, and an awful place to be poor. Europe is a great place to be poor, and an awful place to be rich.

But that statistic doesn’t address inequality. What is the median wealth/income in both places? America has some extremely wealthy people that mask the huge number of people in poverty doing averages.

Having more than someone is not inequality. People who are lazy and less intelligent than I am do not get the economic benefits of being equal to me.

If you want equality where incompetent people are given the same wages as competent, then you should emigrate to a communist country.

You will also get a government that murders and imprisons people you do not approve of.

There is no pesky constitution to give people rights that might cause inequality.

DP. That's the very definition of inequality. However, it's best to keep in mind, "Each according to their need. Each according to their ability." If you are able to work, that's great, but that doesn't entitle you to anything. The needs of those unable to work are often greater!

Equality of opportunity and a minimal safety net that allows a decent life for those who lose the genetic lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The poorest US state (Mississippi) will soon surpass the richest EU country (Germany) in GDP per capita. All other US states are ahead:

https://www.euronews.com/business/2025/01/03/the-poorest-us-state-rivals-germany-gdp-per-capita-in-the-us-and-europe

I've lived in Europe before. There's an old saying: The US is a great place to be rich, and an awful place to be poor. Europe is a great place to be poor, and an awful place to be rich.

But that statistic doesn’t address inequality. What is the median wealth/income in both places? America has some extremely wealthy people that mask the huge number of people in poverty doing averages.

Having more than someone is not inequality. People who are lazy and less intelligent than I am do not get the economic benefits of being equal to me.

If you want equality where incompetent people are given the same wages as competent, then you should emigrate to a communist country.

You will also get a government that murders and imprisons people you do not approve of.

There is no pesky constitution to give people rights that might cause inequality.

DP. That's the very definition of inequality. However, it's best to keep in mind, "Each according to their need. Each according to their ability." If you are able to work, that's great, but that doesn't entitle you to anything. The needs of those unable to work are often greater!

Equality of opportunity and a minimal safety net that allows a decent life for those who lose the genetic lottery.

You are using words that you don't understand. Minimal is not the equivalent of decent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am hearing of people moving to Portugal. I can't manage to learn any other languages but English, and I'm jewish (and poor), but otherwise I'd leave the US too.

You need $500k invested for five yeras and competency in Portuguese.

If you're Jewish Israel will probably take you and give you a pension.

Yeah, the people I am hearing of plus the guy I know who wants to retire there easily has that much money. I can't speak Hebrew (or learn it) and wilt in the heat. So I am not sure I could do okay in Israel.

You can make it in Israel without fluency in Hebrew. My ex had several cousins move there and none spoke Hebrew. Their kids learned quickly and translated for them for years.

If one’s politics are such that they’re not happy in the US, they won’t be happy in Israel. I am Jewish and would never in a million years move there.

I would however happily move to a lower COL place in the US Midwest. Beautiful country, nice people. Michigan, Indiana, Ohio all have cities and lovely suburbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My MIL, who lives in a western European country, had a skin rash. She needed to see a dermatologist when the GP couldn't do anything more for her. First she had to wait for a letter to be mailed to her house with the appointment date and time for the derm. When she received the letter, the appt date was 6 months out. Finally, once she reached that date, she had the flu and couldn't make it to the derm that day. She ended up having to wait for another letter and then another 6 months for the appt date. Meanwhile, I need to see a derm and can get in same day. Same rigamarole happens with any kind of tests..MRIs, mammos, pap smears, echos in her country. It ends up more efficient for the patient to show up at A&E in an emergency situation to get these things taken care of but then of course the A&Es are overrun and there arent any beds and staffing is a major issue too. Its no picnic and forget about dental...people in her country dont even utilize the dentist because it's such a pain to get in and pay for.,,they just go to turkey or somewhere like that where it ends up being cheaper for the flights and procedures than it would be having it done at home.

When I need to see a dermatologist in the DC area, it's a six month wait for an appointment.

Exactly. A 6 month wait if I’m lucky enough for them to be taking new patients or referrals that day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like many Europeans cities have housing crises at the moment, with foreigners buying up lots of apartments in the cities. I guess small towns are easier, but it's not like most of Europe is making it super easy to move there.

I would also think seriously about the healthcare. I know it's cheaper, more accessible, but it's really not as good. My kid just had a simple MRSA infection and I was googling to get more info, and found tons of reddit threads from people in the UK asking for quick remedies because they couldn't get into see anyone for weeks. Healthcare isn't great here, but I think it's worse there. And query how the EU increased defense costs are going to impact that. I just would be reluctant to uproot my life here, where at least I'm a citizen, and move to a country where I'm always going to have some uncertainty about my status AND be far from family. (Clearly I don't have my immigrant grandparents' spirit!)

If I was going to do it, I think I'd pick Ireland, maybe something like Waterford County. It's not far from Dublin, shorter flight to US, fewer cultural barriers, and lots of cheap under utilized land.

I speak Spanish pretty well so could manage a spanish speaking country, but I think that Spain is pretty well sick of Brits and Americans moving there, and I feel like I'd either be in one of those tacky expat communities, or I'd always be "other." 30 years ago when I was backpacking through Mexico I met an American couple that ran a smoothie and breakfast place in Isla Mujeres -- that seemed like a totally great life, but that was before the island got built up by the big hotel chains. I don't know where I'd be willing to go now, between the cartel issues and all the development.

The poinr on health care is vastly overgeneralized. Europe is very diverse. Quality of care in Austria or Germany is not the same as in Greece.

So is the United States. A very diverse country with 50 states, many cities and 340 million people.

As for the PP claiming she can't see a dermatologist for six months, I just scheduled an appointment with one in a month. Fair enough I'm with Kaiser and it's in house but Kaiser's HMO is comparable to a national healthcare like the systems you get in Europe. Very efficient, no complaints. Like it better than Blue Cross Blue Shield and Cigna.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My MIL, who lives in a western European country, had a skin rash. She needed to see a dermatologist when the GP couldn't do anything more for her. First she had to wait for a letter to be mailed to her house with the appointment date and time for the derm. When she received the letter, the appt date was 6 months out. Finally, once she reached that date, she had the flu and couldn't make it to the derm that day. She ended up having to wait for another letter and then another 6 months for the appt date. Meanwhile, I need to see a derm and can get in same day. Same rigamarole happens with any kind of tests..MRIs, mammos, pap smears, echos in her country. It ends up more efficient for the patient to show up at A&E in an emergency situation to get these things taken care of but then of course the A&Es are overrun and there arent any beds and staffing is a major issue too. Its no picnic and forget about dental...people in her country dont even utilize the dentist because it's such a pain to get in and pay for.,,they just go to turkey or somewhere like that where it ends up being cheaper for the flights and procedures than it would be having it done at home.

When I need to see a dermatologist in the DC area, it's a six month wait for an appointment.

Exactly. A 6 month wait if I’m lucky enough for them to be taking new patients or referrals that day.

There's been at least a six month wait on every dermatologist practice I've tried - unless I want a cosmetic procedure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone done this recently and where did you go? I’m born and raised here and I am finding the high cost of living and poor quality of living compared to what it cost to be here unbearable at this point.

Or maybe you could move to West Virginia?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:2,300 people in Europe died in a 2-week span earlier this month, due to heat. Air conditioning is not widespread in many European countries:
https://news.mongabay.com/short-article/extreme-heat-kills-at-least-2300-in-european-cities-study-estimates/

This is where things like a higher GDP come into play. In the US, amenities like air conditioning and dishwashers are standard, not a luxury, because people can afford them.

2300 people across many countries, on a continent died.

Meanwhile almost 50K people die in the US, a single country, every year due to gun violence.

Europeans are used to no a/c, though I think with climate change, some are installing it. My IL in the UK is thinking about installing one just in the upper BR.