County-wide magnet/IB/GE/Humanity programs will become regional programs if the secondary program plan is passed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not an MCPS parent, but isn’t it clear that as a nation we cannot continue to chip away at educational opportunities for accelerated students? I don’t totally understand what MCPS is proposing here, but parents should fight against any loss of advanced opportunities. If MCPS wants to expand options they should add more accelerated seats, not remove them.

Adding more accelerated seats is exactly what they are proposing, and people are freaking out.

Its just a select few at the W schools that fear competition.

Nope. W kids are used to competition.

Seems like the magnet parents are the ones who fear dilution. I don’t think they’re getting the college admissions they want anyways (not all of them at least) and they know opening up the programs further makes those seats harder to get. For example, MIT could say they are only going to take 2 kids from mcps magnets. More kids, lower the chance of getting a seat ag MIT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not an MCPS parent, but isn’t it clear that as a nation we cannot continue to chip away at educational opportunities for accelerated students? I don’t totally understand what MCPS is proposing here, but parents should fight against any loss of advanced opportunities. If MCPS wants to expand options they should add more accelerated seats, not remove them.

Adding more accelerated seats is exactly what they are proposing, and people are freaking out.

The way they are doing it will destroy the entire program. If they want to add extra seats and make it equitable, why not build a centralized program so resources can be concentrated?

It will change the program, but it will not destroy it. Not everything needs to remain exactly the same, frozen in amber, forever and ever.

NP. The DCUM consensus seems to be that MCPS is trash if they change a single thing it'll be ruined forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

Why should MCPS pay for special needs programs? FARMS? ESOL? Therapists? These cost exorbitant amounts of taxpayer dollars, too. I do not benefit from all of these programs. And yet, I continue to support them. Why? Because every student deserves an education that fits their needs.

Students who happen to be talented in academics also deserve a quality education as well. If the regular school curriculumn isn't enough, MCPS should provide opportunities for them. And thus, the magnets.

Or just send them to college classes.

I did that in my flyover country high school when I ran out of math courses to take.

Please read upstream page 2. College classes may offer more than regular high school classes, but they do not even compare to some of the magnets, like Blair.

So now Blair is…better than UMD?

No, but dual enrollment is via Montgomery College, not UMD.

I understand that but if MC doesn’t offer the course then UMD would. Which presumably MCPS could provide for in some fashion.

UMD is a transportation and logistical issue and who pays for it? The discussion is more about the lower income schools which don't have equal classes to the W schools. So, that's an unfair burden to families.

This doesn’t make sense as the entire magnet structure is an unfair burden to lower income families. And likely a reason why many don’t participate.

There are plenty of lower income families in the magnet. Higher income would have gone private.

No. Private schools aren’t close to mcps on math and science. Do the home work on that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not an MCPS parent, but isn’t it clear that as a nation we cannot continue to chip away at educational opportunities for accelerated students? I don’t totally understand what MCPS is proposing here, but parents should fight against any loss of advanced opportunities. If MCPS wants to expand options they should add more accelerated seats, not remove them.

Adding more accelerated seats is exactly what they are proposing, and people are freaking out.

The way they are doing it will destroy the entire program. If they want to add extra seats and make it equitable, why not build a centralized program so resources can be concentrated?

It will change the program, but it will not destroy it. Not everything needs to remain exactly the same, frozen in amber, forever and ever.

It will change the one thing that makes it special. Divide the program into 6 regional clusters and you will end up with every other "GT" program in the nation. Didn't the presentation say that they would only guarantee offering AP courses? There's nothing unique about this.

[Anonymous]

Layered program. Keep the top magnets, don’t forget VAC at Einstein! And add regional programs. Why is this so hard?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

Why should MCPS pay for special needs programs? FARMS? ESOL? Therapists? These cost exorbitant amounts of taxpayer dollars, too. I do not benefit from all of these programs. And yet, I continue to support them. Why? Because every student deserves an education that fits their needs.

Students who happen to be talented in academics also deserve a quality education as well. If the regular school curriculumn isn't enough, MCPS should provide opportunities for them. And thus, the magnets.

Or just send them to college classes.

I did that in my flyover country high school when I ran out of math courses to take.

Please read upstream page 2. College classes may offer more than regular high school classes, but they do not even compare to some of the magnets, like Blair.

So now Blair is…better than UMD?

No, but dual enrollment is via Montgomery College, not UMD.

I understand that but if MC doesn’t offer the course then UMD would. Which presumably MCPS could provide for in some fashion.

UMD is a transportation and logistical issue and who pays for it? The discussion is more about the lower income schools which don't have equal classes to the W schools. So, that's an unfair burden to families.

This doesn’t make sense as the entire magnet structure is an unfair burden to lower income families. And likely a reason why many don’t participate.

There are plenty of lower income families in the magnet. Higher income would have gone private.

No. Private schools aren’t close to mcps on math and science. Do the home work on that.

I never implied private was better on math and science. The Blair magnet is way out of league of most privates. I agree with you there. DD was in Blair magnet.

I'm just saying that the many of the wealthy families in the area would have valued private education over the magnet program, and would have sent to Bullis or some boarding school. There are plenty of lower income and middle class students in the magnet.

[Anonymous]

Blair isn't even countywide, it's half-county, right? So making it regional would be basically like "diluting it" by 3, not 6. And that's assuming that none of the kids who were previously excluded who'd now get in are capable of participating in the core classes, electives, or clubs that people love so much and fear will be watered down or disappear, which I highly doubt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not an MCPS parent, but isn’t it clear that as a nation we cannot continue to chip away at educational opportunities for accelerated students? I don’t totally understand what MCPS is proposing here, but parents should fight against any loss of advanced opportunities. If MCPS wants to expand options they should add more accelerated seats, not remove them.

Adding more accelerated seats is exactly what they are proposing, and people are freaking out.

Its just a select few at the W schools that fear competition.

Nope. W kids are used to competition.

Seems like the magnet parents are the ones who fear dilution. I don’t think they’re getting the college admissions they want anyways (not all of them at least) and they know opening up the programs further makes those seats harder to get. For example, MIT could say they are only going to take 2 kids from mcps magnets. More kids, lower the chance of getting a seat ag MIT.

It's not because of college admissions. It's because the program is highly specialized and would not survive as 6 regional programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

I agree with this. A “watered down” regional program that brings in more kids is preferable in my mind. The super geniuses with extremely motivated families can find other ways to enrich or move to Fairfax and try for TJ.

You seem to imply that I or other families of kids in these programs are well off enough to just pack up our bags one day and move across the river. Why the animosity? Do our kids not deserve opportunities?

It’s not animosity. It’s recognition that everyone can’t get everything they want or think they deserve in public school. There are limited resources and you are pretty astounding in your demands that MCPS cater to your needs.

Great. Let's least-common-denominator everything at all the schools, only providing that which strictly is required by law. No special programs. No advanced classes at some schools but not others. Minimal electives to fill out a schedule, and only the cheapest to implement. Ditto sports and other extracurriculars. It'll save on taxes!

/sarcasm

Slippery slope fallacy.

Then you better be able to come up with a good explanation on why MCPS should spend extra taxpayer dollars for some students on ESOL and other programs, but not other students who may need specialized and advanced academic programs. All students deserve a free public education tailored to their needs, no?

And please, do not say that parents of highly successful kids already have more opportunities. That isn't always the case.

The law requires the other things you are referencing.

I disagree that all students deserve what you are demanding.

This is the reason why public education is failing them. If MCPS is unwilling to provide opportunities, who will?

Give it a rest. You and your kids will be fine.

If OP’s kids are ready and able to get into Blair or RMIB, then I care that they get that opportunity to be educated at the level they can attain. My kid has SN and I hope you all support educating him at the level he can obtain (possibly the GT/LD program). But I want the kids who can do Blair to do Blair so they can be our doctors, engineers and physicists.

Exactly. For too long, this country has been watering down its education system, and now we’re struggling to produce enough homegrown engineers. As a result, we rely heavily on talent from other countries. This decline in standards contributes to serious issues (from infrastructure failure to airplane crashes) while countries like China continue to surge ahead and dominate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Layered program. Keep the top magnets, don’t forget VAC at Einstein! And add regional programs. Why is this so hard?

+1. This all sounds like an effort to cover up mediocre results in the AP and IB programs in non-magnet schools. Typical equity approach to “dilute” for equity rather than take responsibility for poor results. I hate it.

[Anonymous]

You high school parents are so out-of-touch and entitled. Most gifted elementary and middle school kids get next to nothing from MCPS and are thrilled at the idea of getting anything meaningful in high school.

But rather than opening up the doors so most smart kids in MCPS can get a good education in high school at least, you want to gatekeep it so it's perfect for the very tippy-top kids at the expense of everyone else.

(And don't fool yourself that you're arguing that they should keep all the countywide programs but you're fine with them also adding a bunch of regional ones too-- we all know that's not going to work and your argument basically amounts to killing the changes entirely.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Blair isn't even countywide, it's half-county, right? So making it regional would be basically like "diluting it" by 3, not 6. And that's assuming that none of the kids who were previously excluded who'd now get in are capable of participating in the core classes, electives, or clubs that people love so much and fear will be watered down or disappear, which I highly doubt.

I'm not sure if you understand the STEM magnets. The Blair magnet is more of the "flagship" program, and the poolesvile one isn't as strong. They do not offer as many classes and aren't as strong academically. Additionally, we can see that the magnet is already struggling as it is without splitting up. 5+ teachers have retired in recent years. It is kept afloat by the incredibly motivated student body and a few extremely talented teachers, especially in math and physics. Why destroy what's left so suddenly by dividing it into 6 barely sustainable programs? The program is highly successful and will continue to be if MCPS chooses to support it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

I'd have to look at numbers to best respond, but in the multi-billion budget that MCPS has, it's not much money to provide accelerated academic programs for highly able students. Thomas Taylor is making a deliberate decision to shut down programs that graduate students who are among the best in the country. All Taylor would have to do is allow the current countywide/multi-cluster magnets to continue to be application programs across regions to gather sufficient numbers of appropriately prepared student cohorts to attend these programs, now in place with specialized master educators that have the necessary classroom facilities to conduct the magnet programs.

Does he think that these programs are easy to duplicate? They are not. He is disabling nationally renowned academic programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

Why should MCPS pay for special needs programs? FARMS? ESOL? Therapists? These cost exorbitant amounts of taxpayer dollars, too. I do not benefit from all of these programs. And yet, I continue to support them. Why? Because every student deserves an education that fits their needs.

Students who happen to be talented in academics also deserve a quality education as well. If the regular school curriculumn isn't enough, MCPS should provide opportunities for them. And thus, the magnets.

Or just send them to college classes.

I did that in my flyover country high school when I ran out of math courses to take.

Please read upstream page 2. College classes may offer more than regular high school classes, but they do not even compare to some of the magnets, like Blair.

So now Blair is…better than UMD?

No, but dual enrollment is via Montgomery College, not UMD.

I understand that but if MC doesn’t offer the course then UMD would. Which presumably MCPS could provide for in some fashion.

UMD is a transportation and logistical issue and who pays for it? The discussion is more about the lower income schools which don't have equal classes to the W schools. So, that's an unfair burden to families.

This doesn’t make sense as the entire magnet structure is an unfair burden to lower income families. And likely a reason why many don’t participate.

There are plenty of lower income families in the magnet. Higher income would have gone private.

Not really. There are some private school kids who opt for magnet if they get in. But, yea, IMO, most magnet students are not from families who can afford expensive privates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You high school parents are so out-of-touch and entitled. Most gifted elementary and middle school kids get next to nothing from MCPS and are thrilled at the idea of getting anything meaningful in high school.

But rather than opening up the doors so most smart kids in MCPS can get a good education in high school at least, you want to gatekeep it so it's perfect for the very tippy-top kids at the expense of everyone else.

(And don't fool yourself that you're arguing that they should keep all the countywide programs but you're fine with them also adding a bunch of regional ones too-- we all know that's not going to work and your argument basically amounts to killing the changes entirely.)

No I think you’re wrong. kids would actually be interested in that second level. I know my DS would have been. He had so many other ECs and commitments, Blair was not an option for him. But this would have probably been just right.