County-wide magnet/IB/GE/Humanity programs will become regional programs if the secondary program plan is passed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

I agree with this. A “watered down” regional program that brings in more kids is preferable in my mind. The super geniuses with extremely motivated families can find other ways to enrich or move to Fairfax and try for TJ.

You seem to imply that I or other families of kids in these programs are well off enough to just pack up our bags one day and move across the river. Why the animosity? Do our kids not deserve opportunities?

It’s not animosity. It’s recognition that everyone can’t get everything they want or think they deserve in public school. There are limited resources and you are pretty astounding in your demands that MCPS cater to your needs.

Great. Let's least-common-denominator everything at all the schools, only providing that which strictly is required by law. No special programs. No advanced classes at some schools but not others. Minimal electives to fill out a schedule, and only the cheapest to implement. Ditto sports and other extracurriculars. It'll save on taxes!

/sarcasm

Slippery slope fallacy.

Then you better be able to come up with a good explanation on why MCPS should spend extra taxpayer dollars for some students on ESOL and other programs, but not other students who may need specialized and advanced academic programs. All students deserve a free public education tailored to their needs, no?

And please, do not say that parents of highly successful kids already have more opportunities. That isn't always the case.

The law requires the other things you are referencing.

I disagree that all students deserve what you are demanding.

This is the reason why public education is failing them. If MCPS is unwilling to provide opportunities, who will?

Give it a rest. You and your kids will be fine.

[Anonymous]

Not an MCPS parent, but isn’t it clear that as a nation we cannot continue to chip away at educational opportunities for accelerated students? I don’t totally understand what MCPS is proposing here, but parents should fight against any loss of advanced opportunities. If MCPS wants to expand options they should add more accelerated seats, not remove them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

Why should MCPS pay for special needs programs? FARMS? ESOL? Therapists? These cost exorbitant amounts of taxpayer dollars, too. I do not benefit from all of these programs. And yet, I continue to support them. Why? Because every student deserves an education that fits their needs.

Students who happen to be talented in academics also deserve a quality education as well. If the regular school curriculumn isn't enough, MCPS should provide opportunities for them. And thus, the magnets.

Or just send them to college classes.

I did that in my flyover country high school when I ran out of math courses to take.

Please read upstream page 2. College classes may offer more than regular high school classes, but they do not even compare to some of the magnets, like Blair.

So now Blair is…better than UMD?

No, but dual enrollment is via Montgomery College, not UMD.

I understand that but if MC doesn’t offer the course then UMD would. Which presumably MCPS could provide for in some fashion.

UMD is a transportation and logistical issue and who pays for it? The discussion is more about the lower income schools which don't have equal classes to the W schools. So, that's an unfair burden to families.

This doesn’t make sense as the entire magnet structure is an unfair burden to lower income families. And likely a reason why many don’t participate.

There are plenty of lower income families in the magnet. Higher income would have gone private.

[Anonymous]

Man, where is the Woodward troll when you need her?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were in charge I’d take Wheaton biomed and move it to crown with expanded seats (100-125). Crown is in the Shady Grove life Sciences corridor and near USG so there could be some great partner programs.

Then expand Wheaton engineering.

Then you’d have four flagship stem programs in different parts of the county.

That wouldn't be fair to DCC families who want Biomed.

They can expand both and offer both at Crown too.

Having global ecology at poolesville isn’t fair, or aviation at magruder, or the social justice program at Whitman.


We don’t have the capacity to have biomed in easy driving distance from every cluster. But where we do locate it should make sense within the broader community and Crown does. Plus, you can get to Crown fairly easily from the Wheaton/Kennedy area by hopping on the ICC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

I agree with this. A “watered down” regional program that brings in more kids is preferable in my mind. The super geniuses with extremely motivated families can find other ways to enrich or move to Fairfax and try for TJ.

You seem to imply that I or other families of kids in these programs are well off enough to just pack up our bags one day and move across the river. Why the animosity? Do our kids not deserve opportunities?

It’s not animosity. It’s recognition that everyone can’t get everything they want or think they deserve in public school. There are limited resources and you are pretty astounding in your demands that MCPS cater to your needs.

Great. Let's least-common-denominator everything at all the schools, only providing that which strictly is required by law. No special programs. No advanced classes at some schools but not others. Minimal electives to fill out a schedule, and only the cheapest to implement. Ditto sports and other extracurriculars. It'll save on taxes!

/sarcasm

Slippery slope fallacy.

Then you better be able to come up with a good explanation on why MCPS should spend extra taxpayer dollars for some students on ESOL and other programs, but not other students who may need specialized and advanced academic programs. All students deserve a free public education tailored to their needs, no?

And please, do not say that parents of highly successful kids already have more opportunities. That isn't always the case.

The law requires the other things you are referencing.

I disagree that all students deserve what you are demanding.

This is the reason why public education is failing them. If MCPS is unwilling to provide opportunities, who will?

Give it a rest. You and your kids will be fine.

If OP’s kids are ready and able to get into Blair or RMIB, then I care that they get that opportunity to be educated at the level they can attain. My kid has SN and I hope you all support educating him at the level he can obtain (possibly the GT/LD program). But I want the kids who can do Blair to do Blair so they can be our doctors, engineers and physicists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not an MCPS parent, but isn’t it clear that as a nation we cannot continue to chip away at educational opportunities for accelerated students? I don’t totally understand what MCPS is proposing here, but parents should fight against any loss of advanced opportunities. If MCPS wants to expand options they should add more accelerated seats, not remove them.

Adding more accelerated seats is exactly what they are proposing, and people are freaking out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The more the magnet people demand the less amenable I am to them. They want college courses in the school day delivered by a specialized teacher/professor. They can take virtual, they cannot travel, they cannot do anything in the evening.

Magnet has nothing to do with college courses. These kids are in HS, not college and smart kids deserve to have their needs met especially outside the W schools. How about we can strip down the W schools to have all schools offer the same classes and clubs for equity? How would you feel if your child didn't have access to classes they need and want.

Virtual is not offered by MCPS.

Kids are in after school activities and work. Some of these activities are highly skilled and if they take off a year, they lose their spot.

And, travel is an issue with working parents and distance. MC is a minimum of a 90 minute bus ride one way and that's assuming no issues arise. That's not doable for one class 3 times a week. Not all kids drive till senior year and expecting parents to buy a car for one class is absurd.

So, the simple solution is lets equalize all schools and except the magnets, lets get rid of all upper level classes. All math stops at AP BC. No science AP's. None of that extra stuff your school has. Everyone gets exactly the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not an MCPS parent, but isn’t it clear that as a nation we cannot continue to chip away at educational opportunities for accelerated students? I don’t totally understand what MCPS is proposing here, but parents should fight against any loss of advanced opportunities. If MCPS wants to expand options they should add more accelerated seats, not remove them.

Adding more accelerated seats is exactly what they are proposing, and people are freaking out.

Its just a select few at the W schools that fear competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not an MCPS parent, but isn’t it clear that as a nation we cannot continue to chip away at educational opportunities for accelerated students? I don’t totally understand what MCPS is proposing here, but parents should fight against any loss of advanced opportunities. If MCPS wants to expand options they should add more accelerated seats, not remove them.

The people on this thread are trying to NOT expand accelerated opportunities bc that would “water down” their children’s education. They want education to only be aimed at the top 1%, not even the top 5%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not an MCPS parent, but isn’t it clear that as a nation we cannot continue to chip away at educational opportunities for accelerated students? I don’t totally understand what MCPS is proposing here, but parents should fight against any loss of advanced opportunities. If MCPS wants to expand options they should add more accelerated seats, not remove them.

Adding more accelerated seats is exactly what they are proposing, and people are freaking out.

The way they are doing it will destroy the entire program. If they want to add extra seats and make it equitable, why not build a centralized program so resources can be concentrated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not an MCPS parent, but isn’t it clear that as a nation we cannot continue to chip away at educational opportunities for accelerated students? I don’t totally understand what MCPS is proposing here, but parents should fight against any loss of advanced opportunities. If MCPS wants to expand options they should add more accelerated seats, not remove them.

Adding more accelerated seats is exactly what they are proposing, and people are freaking out.

isn’t what they are proposing to break up the programs with the top students and make them less advanced? What I mean is that they should add second tier advanced programs but not touch the existing ones that are working. Th

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not an MCPS parent, but isn’t it clear that as a nation we cannot continue to chip away at educational opportunities for accelerated students? I don’t totally understand what MCPS is proposing here, but parents should fight against any loss of advanced opportunities. If MCPS wants to expand options they should add more accelerated seats, not remove them.

The people on this thread are trying to NOT expand accelerated opportunities bc that would “water down” their children’s education. They want education to only be aimed at the top 1%, not even the top 5%.

why does expanding access come at the expense of the existing highly selective programs? That’s really bad policy. Keep those and add additional programs for the 5%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not an MCPS parent, but isn’t it clear that as a nation we cannot continue to chip away at educational opportunities for accelerated students? I don’t totally understand what MCPS is proposing here, but parents should fight against any loss of advanced opportunities. If MCPS wants to expand options they should add more accelerated seats, not remove them.

Adding more accelerated seats is exactly what they are proposing, and people are freaking out.

The way they are doing it will destroy the entire program. If they want to add extra seats and make it equitable, why not build a centralized program so resources can be concentrated?

It will change the program, but it will not destroy it. Not everything needs to remain exactly the same, frozen in amber, forever and ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not an MCPS parent, but isn’t it clear that as a nation we cannot continue to chip away at educational opportunities for accelerated students? I don’t totally understand what MCPS is proposing here, but parents should fight against any loss of advanced opportunities. If MCPS wants to expand options they should add more accelerated seats, not remove them.

The people on this thread are trying to NOT expand accelerated opportunities bc that would “water down” their children’s education. They want education to only be aimed at the top 1%, not even the top 5%.

I'm for expanding opportunity, but not in a way that would drag everyone down equally. Why not expand like TJ in Fairfax Virginia, rather than divert all our resources into 6 mediocre programs?