County-wide magnet/IB/GE/Humanity programs will become regional programs if the secondary program plan is passed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You high school parents are so out-of-touch and entitled. Most gifted elementary and middle school kids get next to nothing from MCPS and are thrilled at the idea of getting anything meaningful in high school.

But rather than opening up the doors so most smart kids in MCPS can get a good education in high school at least, you want to gatekeep it so it's perfect for the very tippy-top kids at the expense of everyone else.

(And don't fool yourself that you're arguing that they should keep all the countywide programs but you're fine with them also adding a bunch of regional ones too-- we all know that's not going to work and your argument basically amounts to killing the changes entirely.)

No I think you’re wrong. kids would actually be interested in that second level. I know my DS would have been. He had so many other ECs and commitments, Blair was not an option for him. But this would have probably been just right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You high school parents are so out-of-touch and entitled. Most gifted elementary and middle school kids get next to nothing from MCPS and are thrilled at the idea of getting anything meaningful in high school.

But rather than opening up the doors so most smart kids in MCPS can get a good education in high school at least, you want to gatekeep it so it's perfect for the very tippy-top kids at the expense of everyone else.

(And don't fool yourself that you're arguing that they should keep all the countywide programs but you're fine with them also adding a bunch of regional ones too-- we all know that's not going to work and your argument basically amounts to killing the changes entirely.)

? All HS offer some AP classes, some more than others. For those who need even more advanced classes, they try for magnets. It would be great for MCPS to offer more magnet programs, but diluting the existing ones is a disservice to high achieving students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You high school parents are so out-of-touch and entitled. Most gifted elementary and middle school kids get next to nothing from MCPS and are thrilled at the idea of getting anything meaningful in high school.

But rather than opening up the doors so most smart kids in MCPS can get a good education in high school at least, you want to gatekeep it so it's perfect for the very tippy-top kids at the expense of everyone else.

(And don't fool yourself that you're arguing that they should keep all the countywide programs but you're fine with them also adding a bunch of regional ones too-- we all know that's not going to work and your argument basically amounts to killing the changes entirely.)

The W schools have a lot more opportunities, so its really more of an issue for the other schools that don't have the same access. They need to beef up the local schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You high school parents are so out-of-touch and entitled. Most gifted elementary and middle school kids get next to nothing from MCPS and are thrilled at the idea of getting anything meaningful in high school.

But rather than opening up the doors so most smart kids in MCPS can get a good education in high school at least, you want to gatekeep it so it's perfect for the very tippy-top kids at the expense of everyone else.

(And don't fool yourself that you're arguing that they should keep all the countywide programs but you're fine with them also adding a bunch of regional ones too-- we all know that's not going to work and your argument basically amounts to killing the changes entirely.)

? All HS offer some AP classes, some more than others. For those who need even more advanced classes, they try for magnets. It would be great for MCPS to offer more magnet programs, but diluting the existing ones is a disservice to high achieving students.

Two issues, what about the kids who don't get into the magnets. What about the kids who don't want the magnets because that's not the focus they want.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

I agree with this. A “watered down” regional program that brings in more kids is preferable in my mind. The super geniuses with extremely motivated families can find other ways to enrich or move to Fairfax and try for TJ.

You seem to imply that I or other families of kids in these programs are well off enough to just pack up our bags one day and move across the river. Why the animosity? Do our kids not deserve opportunities?

It’s not animosity. It’s recognition that everyone can’t get everything they want or think they deserve in public school. There are limited resources and you are pretty astounding in your demands that MCPS cater to your needs.

Great. Let's least-common-denominator everything at all the schools, only providing that which strictly is required by law. No special programs. No advanced classes at some schools but not others. Minimal electives to fill out a schedule, and only the cheapest to implement. Ditto sports and other extracurriculars. It'll save on taxes!

/sarcasm

Slippery slope fallacy.

Then you better be able to come up with a good explanation on why MCPS should spend extra taxpayer dollars for some students on ESOL and other programs, but not other students who may need specialized and advanced academic programs. All students deserve a free public education tailored to their needs, no?

And please, do not say that parents of highly successful kids already have more opportunities. That isn't always the case.

The law requires the other things you are referencing.

I disagree that all students deserve what you are demanding.

This is the reason why public education is failing them. If MCPS is unwilling to provide opportunities, who will?

Give it a rest. You and your kids will be fine.

If OP’s kids are ready and able to get into Blair or RMIB, then I care that they get that opportunity to be educated at the level they can attain. My kid has SN and I hope you all support educating him at the level he can obtain (possibly the GT/LD program). But I want the kids who can do Blair to do Blair so they can be our doctors, engineers and physicists.

Exactly. For too long, this country has been watering down its education system, and now we’re struggling to produce enough homegrown engineers. As a result, we rely heavily on talent from other countries. This decline in standards contributes to serious issues (from infrastructure failure to airplane crashes) while countries like China continue to surge ahead and dominate.

Some of it is the pay where companies can outsource to other countries and pay them far less.

It is the pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

I agree with this. A “watered down” regional program that brings in more kids is preferable in my mind. The super geniuses with extremely motivated families can find other ways to enrich or move to Fairfax and try for TJ.

You seem to imply that I or other families of kids in these programs are well off enough to just pack up our bags one day and move across the river. Why the animosity? Do our kids not deserve opportunities?

It’s not animosity. It’s recognition that everyone can’t get everything they want or think they deserve in public school. There are limited resources and you are pretty astounding in your demands that MCPS cater to your needs.

Great. Let's least-common-denominator everything at all the schools, only providing that which strictly is required by law. No special programs. No advanced classes at some schools but not others. Minimal electives to fill out a schedule, and only the cheapest to implement. Ditto sports and other extracurriculars. It'll save on taxes!

/sarcasm

Slippery slope fallacy.

Please note the "/sarcasm." Defeats the slippery slope claim.

Question is, where is the line (and does that meet equity with excellence & other goals that address student needs/interests within a budget acceptable to the community.

[Anonymous]

I think they should see this as an opportunity to recharge the magnet program. Make improvements to the existing, add performing arts countywide (there is not enough opportunity in the performing arts either - see the Churchill orchestra discussion).

And add the new regional, with AP Math and science plus a few extras like multivariable and other sciences added in.

This would be outstanding. We have G&T students and we also have exceptional G&T students. Accommodate both.

[Anonymous]

Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You high school parents are so out-of-touch and entitled. Most gifted elementary and middle school kids get next to nothing from MCPS and are thrilled at the idea of getting anything meaningful in high school.

But rather than opening up the doors so most smart kids in MCPS can get a good education in high school at least, you want to gatekeep it so it's perfect for the very tippy-top kids at the expense of everyone else.

(And don't fool yourself that you're arguing that they should keep all the countywide programs but you're fine with them also adding a bunch of regional ones too-- we all know that's not going to work and your argument basically amounts to killing the changes entirely.)

? All HS offer some AP classes, some more than others. For those who need even more advanced classes, they try for magnets. It would be great for MCPS to offer more magnet programs, but diluting the existing ones is a disservice to high achieving students.

Trying for the magnets, sure, many do and are waitlisted. So, then what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

Or, how about beefing up the course offerings at all schools so kids have access to the classes they need? That way for kids who want magnets, great, they have that option, but for kids who prefer their home schools, for other reasons, can stay and get their needs met as well. It could easily be done virtually. Oh wait... they got rid of the virtual program as they truely don't care about student needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think they should see this as an opportunity to recharge the magnet program. Make improvements to the existing, add performing arts countywide (there is not enough opportunity in the performing arts either - see the Churchill orchestra discussion).

And add the new regional, with AP Math and science plus a few extras like multivariable and other sciences added in.

This would be outstanding. We have G&T students and we also have exceptional G&T students. Accommodate both.

Any kids DCC who want more for the arts have to go privately as its not going ot happen in the DCC schools.

They need to add MV, and AP sciences to ALL schools. Kids should have access to basic classes at their home schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You high school parents are so out-of-touch and entitled. Most gifted elementary and middle school kids get next to nothing from MCPS and are thrilled at the idea of getting anything meaningful in high school.

But rather than opening up the doors so most smart kids in MCPS can get a good education in high school at least, you want to gatekeep it so it's perfect for the very tippy-top kids at the expense of everyone else.

(And don't fool yourself that you're arguing that they should keep all the countywide programs but you're fine with them also adding a bunch of regional ones too-- we all know that's not going to work and your argument basically amounts to killing the changes entirely.)

? All HS offer some AP classes, some more than others. For those who need even more advanced classes, they try for magnets. It would be great for MCPS to offer more magnet programs, but diluting the existing ones is a disservice to high achieving students.

So the regular high school curriculum (with very little to offer in 9th and 10th grades) is good enough for our kids, but even a slightly watered-down Blair with a few less cool electives isn't good enough for yours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they should see this as an opportunity to recharge the magnet program. Make improvements to the existing, add performing arts countywide (there is not enough opportunity in the performing arts either - see the Churchill orchestra discussion).

And add the new regional, with AP Math and science plus a few extras like multivariable and other sciences added in.

This would be outstanding. We have G&T students and we also have exceptional G&T students. Accommodate both.

Any kids DCC who want more for the arts have to go privately as its not going ot happen in the DCC schools.

They need to add MV, and AP sciences to ALL schools. Kids should have access to basic classes at their home schools.

I agree it is inexcusable to not have AP sciences at every high school in this county!!!!

I disagree on multivariable but that’s ok.

I think Woodward should have a countywide performing arts magnet. That is a huge gap here in mcps compared to other school districts of our size. Your kids are missing out,

I think we should have 6 regional magnets for STEM and IB IN ADDITION to keeping what we already have county wide (probably add seats to those programs).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You high school parents are so out-of-touch and entitled. Most gifted elementary and middle school kids get next to nothing from MCPS and are thrilled at the idea of getting anything meaningful in high school.

But rather than opening up the doors so most smart kids in MCPS can get a good education in high school at least, you want to gatekeep it so it's perfect for the very tippy-top kids at the expense of everyone else.

(And don't fool yourself that you're arguing that they should keep all the countywide programs but you're fine with them also adding a bunch of regional ones too-- we all know that's not going to work and your argument basically amounts to killing the changes entirely.)

+1

Hundreds of kids can't attend magnet for various reasons. Having regional magnets closer to home will; allow so many kids to attend.

I agree, posters are trying to fool no one by arguing that keep countywide and then add regionowide. They know very well that it will kill region wide magnets.

4-5 HS taken together you can always find 50-100 kids who can do hard programs together. That's wider access and more sustainable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they should see this as an opportunity to recharge the magnet program. Make improvements to the existing, add performing arts countywide (there is not enough opportunity in the performing arts either - see the Churchill orchestra discussion).

And add the new regional, with AP Math and science plus a few extras like multivariable and other sciences added in.

This would be outstanding. We have G&T students and we also have exceptional G&T students. Accommodate both.

Any kids DCC who want more for the arts have to go privately as its not going ot happen in the DCC schools.

They need to add MV, and AP sciences to ALL schools. Kids should have access to basic classes at their home schools.

I agree it is inexcusable to not have AP sciences at every high school in this county!!!!

I disagree on multivariable but that’s ok.

I think Woodward should have a countywide performing arts magnet.[b] That is a huge gap here in mcps compared to other school districts of our size. Your kids are missing out,

I think we should have 6 regional magnets for STEM and IB IN ADDITION to keeping what we already have county wide (probably add seats to those programs).

Please, no perfomring art in Woodward. Put those programs in paces where it's not hard to get enough kids for high level math courses. With 40-50% FARMS in Woodawrd if you put performing arts magnet there, no way Woodward will have any high level math courses.