Do you know a kid who was screwed in the college process in last few years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

Asians may be overrepresented relative to their overall percentage in the school going population, but underrepresented relative to their credentials and accomplishments. Both can be true.

This. Exactly.

So, they are using their analytical abilities to look beyond the college name and going for - in-demand hard STEM majors where there is a high barrier to entry, saving their education dollars, building wealth and network, as well as having profession adjacent gigs and startup ideas.

You are basically arguing that computer science skills are more worthy than great writers or great dancers or great linguists and so on. You need to find a place at a school that agrees with that. If you are trying to get a place at a school that also values scientific research skills, then you might get beat out by a science researcher. What the student brings to the table needs to align with what the school wants on the table.

No. I am not arguing that at all. What I am saying and seeing is that these Asian superstars are often times studying a STEM major and a Humanities major. So, really, they are all-rounders. Good communicators, able to see the big picture, good debaters etc. Most of them are polygots- knowing multiple languages. In addition to all of this - they are dancers, painters, singers, photographers, and accompalished musicians too. It is the culture of being all-rounders and excelling in everything. So, it becomes immaterial if Ivies don't take them. They are increasing the profile of the regular state colleges. In schools like UMD, it is extremely hard for average kids to get into the high demand classes or even compete with the cohort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

Asians may be overrepresented relative to their overall percentage in the school going population, but underrepresented relative to their credentials and accomplishments. Both can be true.

This. Exactly.

So, they are using their analytical abilities to look beyond the college name and going for - in-demand hard STEM majors where there is a high barrier to entry, saving their education dollars, building wealth and network, as well as having profession adjacent gigs and startup ideas.

You are basically arguing that computer science skills are more worthy than great writers or great dancers or great linguists and so on. You need to find a place at a school that agrees with that. If you are trying to get a place at a school that also values scientific research skills, then you might get beat out by a science researcher. What the student brings to the table needs to align with what the school wants on the table.

No. I am not arguing that at all. What I am saying and seeing is that these Asian superstars are often times studying a STEM major and a Humanities major. So, really, they are all-rounders. Good communicators, able to see the big picture, good debaters etc. Most of them are polygots- knowing multiple languages. In addition to all of this - they are dancers, painters, singers, photographers, and accompalished musicians too. It is the culture of being all-rounders and excelling in everything. So, it becomes immaterial if Ivies don't take them. They are increasing the profile of the regular state colleges. In schools like UMD, it is extremely hard for average kids to get into the high demand classes or even compete with the cohort.

Ok. So they're not screwed. I thought this thread was about students feeling they were screwed over by getting a spot at UMD. Umd is a very fine institution with competitive admissions and offers significant opportunities to its graduates . I am not of the opinion that anyone is screwed over by going there but that was the topic of this thread.

[Anonymous]

it is bizarre to me that seemingly the same people want a total scores only meritocracy re: admitting black students (and make alot of assumptions about the objective criteria vis a vis the black students) and yet flip out when asians beat whites at the scores and start talking about wholistic factors. If you are going to stress out your kids by teaching them that their value is dependent on what schools they get into at least pick a lane

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

Asians may be overrepresented relative to their overall percentage in the school going population, but underrepresented relative to their credentials and accomplishments. Both can be true.

This. Exactly.

So, they are using their analytical abilities to look beyond the college name and going for - in-demand hard STEM majors where there is a high barrier to entry, saving their education dollars, building wealth and network, as well as having profession adjacent gigs and startup ideas.

You are basically arguing that computer science skills are more worthy than great writers or great dancers or great linguists and so on. You need to find a place at a school that agrees with that. If you are trying to get a place at a school that also values scientific research skills, then you might get beat out by a science researcher. What the student brings to the table needs to align with what the school wants on the table.

No. I am not arguing that at all. What I am saying and seeing is that these Asian superstars are often times studying a STEM major and a Humanities major. So, really, they are all-rounders. Good communicators, able to see the big picture, good debaters etc. Most of them are polygots- knowing multiple languages. In addition to all of this - they are dancers, painters, singers, photographers, and accompalished musicians too. It is the culture of being all-rounders and excelling in everything. So, it becomes immaterial if Ivies don't take them. They are increasing the profile of the regular state colleges. In schools like UMD, it is extremely hard for average kids to get into the high demand classes or even compete with the cohort.

Ok. So they're not screwed. I thought this thread was about students feeling they were screwed over by getting a spot at UMD. Umd is a very fine institution with competitive admissions and offers significant opportunities to its graduates . I am not of the opinion that anyone is screwed over by going there but that was the topic of this thread.

The OP didn't name any specific schools, or even states. Actually, they didn't even say they were asking about top/elite schools or super-high-stats students. Just asked what happened to kids if they "got screwed," whatever that means.

Predictably, things went off the rails.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

Asians may be overrepresented relative to their overall percentage in the school going population, but underrepresented relative to their credentials and accomplishments. Both can be true.

This. Exactly.

So, they are using their analytical abilities to look beyond the college name and going for - in-demand hard STEM majors where there is a high barrier to entry, saving their education dollars, building wealth and network, as well as having profession adjacent gigs and startup ideas.

You are basically arguing that computer science skills are more worthy than great writers or great dancers or great linguists and so on. You need to find a place at a school that agrees with that. If you are trying to get a place at a school that also values scientific research skills, then you might get beat out by a science researcher. What the student brings to the table needs to align with what the school wants on the table.

No. I am not arguing that at all. What I am saying and seeing is that these Asian superstars are often times studying a STEM major and a Humanities major. So, really, they are all-rounders. Good communicators, able to see the big picture, good debaters etc. Most of them are polygots- knowing multiple languages. In addition to all of this - they are dancers, painters, singers, photographers, and accompalished musicians too. It is the culture of being all-rounders and excelling in everything. So, it becomes immaterial if Ivies don't take them. They are increasing the profile of the regular state colleges. In schools like UMD, it is extremely hard for average kids to get into the high demand classes or even compete with the cohort.

Ok. So they're not screwed. I thought this thread was about students feeling they were screwed over by getting a spot at UMD. Umd is a very fine institution with competitive admissions and offers significant opportunities to its graduates . I am not of the opinion that anyone is screwed over by going there but that was the topic of this thread.

The OP didn't name any specific schools, or even states. Actually, they didn't even say they were asking about top/elite schools or super-high-stats students. Just asked what happened to kids if they "got screwed," whatever that means.

Predictably, things went off the rails.

Doesn’t take a rocket science to read the original post - with those stats (being the valedictorian and at the very top of standardized scores, along with other stellar extracurriculars) to see that these kids are generally shooting for the moon or shotgunning.

Getting screwed would presumably mean not getting into any of them. As seen in the Reddit post linked earlier.

[Anonymous]

I did. Problem with SS# went unresolved too long, so ED could not be fulfilled, then RD could not be completed, so kid had to go to rolling admissions. Princeton, Swarthmore, others had to go to the wayside. It was mid summer before SS resolved their issue. Kid offered full ride at a school with rolling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did. Problem with SS# went unresolved too long, so ED could not be fulfilled, then RD could not be completed, so kid had to go to rolling admissions. Princeton, Swarthmore, others had to go to the wayside. It was mid summer before SS resolved their issue. Kid offered full ride at a school with rolling.

What is SS?

[Anonymous]

Social security number couldn’t be verified. SS kept kicking it back. Kid was offered admission but colleges couldn’t verify them so it was a dead end. Sad. It was an error on the SS side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
No. What I have seen though, is students with high test scores, excellent grades and extracurricular activities that check lots of boxes — who aren’t necessarily curious or genuinely well-rounded people, who don’t always stand out from other similarly accomplished kids applying to an unfortunately limited number of schools. They’re not all going to get in — unless those admirable qualities are sufficient for the particular schools they’re applying to.

This exactly - every kid I know that folks say was “screwed” just applied to a the same set of tippy top schools because of the brand and thinks scores are going to get them in. And poor thing has to go to honors college at the state flagship and folks act like it’s some type of tragedy. I think for a kid that can’t think past HYP, Duke, Mich but won’t apply to other schools in top 30 - honestly honors college at a strong state school is actually the best fit.

+1000

If a kid is high stats/has the resume for T25 schools, then there are plenty of schools in the 30-70 range that will admit them and even give them excellent merit. If the kid is not Smart enough to apply outside of Reaches (ie the T25) except for their State Flagship, well then they will be attending the State Flagship. That was their Choice. But they could have applied to another 5-8 Targets/safeties and easily gotten accepted at several great schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all relative. A kid can is screwed if someone with lower stats gets accepted and you don't. But is has be significantly lower stats.

When I hear about such cases, I am always skeptical that the person who got "screwed" actually knows the other kid's stats, and it is impossible that they know all the information about the other kid that caused the admissions committee to accept that kid and reject the other kid.

You didn't get screwed just because the college didn't take all 60,000 applications, rank them in order of GPA and test scores, and then offer admission to the top 10,000 applications without looking at anything else.

Yes but if a 36/1580, valedictorian, class president and varsity capt of championship sports team with maybe something else (national award in major related activity) doesn't get in, but others with demonstrably lower stats (per teachers) are getting in, that kid was screwed.

absolutely.
and yes, its part of life and it happens. but yes, it was being screwed.

No it is NOT "being screwed". it's about recognizing that there is more to life and getting into college than a 36/1600/class president and varsity team Capitan. There are others who are apparently more interesting, write better essays, have better recommendations and perhaps just present themselves as more intellectual curiosity.

You are talking about schools where only 5-10% are accepted. So 90%+ are REJECTED
Do the math, it's going to happen to many top students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Social security number couldn’t be verified. SS kept kicking it back. Kid was offered admission but colleges couldn’t verify them so it was a dead end. Sad. It was an error on the SS side.

My kid never input SSN

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all relative. A kid can is screwed if someone with lower stats gets accepted and you don't. But is has be significantly lower stats.

When I hear about such cases, I am always skeptical that the person who got "screwed" actually knows the other kid's stats, and it is impossible that they know all the information about the other kid that caused the admissions committee to accept that kid and reject the other kid.

You didn't get screwed just because the college didn't take all 60,000 applications, rank them in order of GPA and test scores, and then offer admission to the top 10,000 applications without looking at anything else.

Yes but if a 36/1580, valedictorian, class president and varsity capt of championship sports team with maybe something else (national award in major related activity) doesn't get in, but others with demonstrably lower stats (per teachers) are getting in, that kid was screwed.

absolutely.
and yes, its part of life and it happens. but yes, it was being screwed.

That is ridiculous. There are more kids like that than spots every year. I think there are something like 30,000 high school valedictorians alone every single year.

Being "valedictorian" really doesn't mean that much. Heck in my HS, the "valedictorian" dropped out of college during fall semester freshman year (from a VA state school---not UVA and this was 30+ years ago) and came home and went to local CC.

[Anonymous]

I think my kid should’ve had more acceptances from highly selective schools. She goes to a highly competitive magnet though. It is now clear that selective schools prefer a particular profile from our school. She had a wider variety of interests (arts ECs at a science magnet) very solid rigor, a competitive national award but not in tech/science, and 1550/35. She’s going someplace great for her. But we (and others) were surprised she didn’t get into any reaches. Maybe recs. Maybe essays. Maybe they just weren’t that into her. Oh well. She has great opportunities where she’s headed! And price is right.

[Anonymous]

I'm on a FB college parents group (with some college counselors) and this is the #1 thing parents have been posting about for weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

Asians may be overrepresented relative to their overall percentage in the school going population, but underrepresented relative to their credentials and accomplishments. Both can be true.

This. Exactly.

So, they are using their analytical abilities to look beyond the college name and going for - in-demand hard STEM majors where there is a high barrier to entry, saving their education dollars, building wealth and network, as well as having profession adjacent gigs and startup ideas.

You are basically arguing that computer science skills are more worthy than great writers or great dancers or great linguists and so on. You need to find a place at a school that agrees with that. If you are trying to get a place at a school that also values scientific research skills, then you might get beat out by a science researcher. What the student brings to the table needs to align with what the school wants on the table.

No. I am not arguing that at all. What I am saying and seeing is that these Asian superstars are often times studying a STEM major and a Humanities major. So, really, they are all-rounders. Good communicators, able to see the big picture, good debaters etc. Most of them are polygots- knowing multiple languages. In addition to all of this - they are dancers, painters, singers, photographers, and accompalished musicians too. It is the culture of being all-rounders and excelling in everything. So, it becomes immaterial if Ivies don't take them. They are increasing the profile of the regular state colleges. In schools like UMD, it is extremely hard for average kids to get into the high demand classes or even compete with the cohort.

Ok. So they're not screwed. I thought this thread was about students feeling they were screwed over by getting a spot at UMD. Umd is a very fine institution with competitive admissions and offers significant opportunities to its graduates . I am not of the opinion that anyone is screwed over by going there but that was the topic of this thread.

No. I believe that Asian students have changed the rhetoric now. The tippy-top students are being rejected for being Asians (yes, I understand that colleges want diversity and not merit) and they are going to state flagships instead. So, now, because the influx of these academic superstars, state colleges are doing very well and rising in ranking. The only downside I can see is the average student in-state may find it extremely hard to get into these programs because the academic stats and ECs are so high.

Having super hardworking Asians in this country is a boon for this country and for our educational institutions. It is keeping US competitive. And no, intelligence does not have a racial component. Individuals can be geniuses and every child can be educated to reach their best.