New York Times Magazine article questioning adhd commonplaces (including meds)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "changing the environment" argument is just a modern version of "the world needs ditchdiggers too".

They're saying some kids cant' concentrate in some environments, so instead of medicating them and giving them a chance to concentrate, we should put them in remedial classes and find jobs for them that don't require concentration. A small percentage will make it in unique jobs that value unstructured thought and don't penalize disorganization.

In my kids' case, switching from schools that used the workshop model, where there was a lot of humm and buzz and working in small groups and laptops insufficiently guarded to prevent kids from wandering off into the depths of the internet, to one where there was a lot more sitting in rows, listening to the teacher, and writing with pen and paper, significantly improved their learning experience. The work they're doing now doesn't seem at all remedial.

+1. a lot of the issue is the loss of structure and clear instruction in the classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "changing the environment" argument is just a modern version of "the world needs ditchdiggers too".

They're saying some kids cant' concentrate in some environments, so instead of medicating them and giving them a chance to concentrate, we should put them in remedial classes and find jobs for them that don't require concentration. A small percentage will make it in unique jobs that value unstructured thought and don't penalize disorganization.

In my kids' case, switching from schools that used the workshop model, where there was a lot of humm and buzz and working in small groups and laptops insufficiently guarded to prevent kids from wandering off into the depths of the internet, to one where there was a lot more sitting in rows, listening to the teacher, and writing with pen and paper, significantly improved their learning experience. The work they're doing now doesn't seem at all remedial.

We had the opposite effect. The boredom of sitting in rows and having information pushed on them (instead of engaged and active in learning) has been detrimental

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son was diagnosed with "moderate to severe ADHD" and started meds in 5th grade. He went from failing to a straight A student. We were already a very education-oriented household who took learning seriously. He'd been tutored by me after school every day, loved to read, etc. The difference was solely the meds.

He needed them until 12th grade. By 12th grade, he was getting habituated and needed regular breaks from meds, because we couldn't increase the dose without triggering serious side effects (completely suppressed appetite, anxiety, insomnia, etc).

And now he's in college, and has been gradually tapering his dose to... nothing. In sophomore year of college, he takes nothing. He still has extended time on tests, and uses it. But no meds. It's a great relief to us that he can "function" without ADHD medication. He is often late, forgets many things... but before he could not function AT ALL without his meds! Now he can. Sort of.

My conclusion is that growing up and adolescence really does a number on kids with executive function disorder, and that meds are sometimes entirely necessary to get them through. But they don't need to use them for life.

Now I'm not saying that my son can be a homeowner, deal with chores, repairs, etc, and get married and deal with in-laws and kids and parenting, AND hold down a job successfully, all the while being unmedicated. Probably not. He will need to pare down his life and if he wants those things, he will need to disclose his limitations to any future wife so they're not left holding the bag resentfully. But he can have a low-key life that has some of those things, without meds.

As with everything in life, it's not all or nothing. You need to deeply understand the patient, his symptoms, the relief medication brings, deal with the side effects, and... know when to stop.

I think the bigger point is that society should be more accepting and forgiving of kids like your son. They should not be forced to conform to the narrow path that our culture has deemed acceptable. For example, there are cultures where being late is not a cardinal sin and being busy and productive for 12 h every single day is not admired for its intrinsic value. The expectations placed on kids are unrealistic for many of our youngsters. Perhaps we need to rethink our expectations and make sure there are many on-ramps to a successful and sustainable life rather than forcing kids to take medication and adjust to our narrow set of priorities

100% agree with this. Also maybe one reason kids are acting out in school is because school is so boring these days? I don’t have any direct experience in ADHD but I moved my kids to private for that reason.

There's not enough money in public education to change that.

To target the learning needs of kids better, so they're not bored, you'd need much smaller classes. There's too much variance in a normal large classroom. Even then, you'd still have many kids like mine that struggle with impulse control. Aids in every classroom, two in the younger years, could help for that, but both of these changed would be expensive. It's not realistic.

The answer isn't as simple as building in more active time or doing more fun projects. Even if you reduce sitting time to a couple hours a day, many kids with ADHD still can't do that without help.

Is there no money though? MCPS for example has a huge budget. But they like to spend it on a million different things. Instead, they could prioritize and choose to spend most of it on more teachers and aides so that classes could be smaller. If teachers were less overworked, they would also have more patience for the more challenging kids. Nothing will change until parents band together and send emails about what is important to them

Districts aren't responsible for the number or size of the schools. That's set by the local planning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was diagnosed ADHD and put on drugs when I was 11/12. As an adult I have chosen to go off them entirely.
Most ADHD drugs are just uppers. Yes, they help you get stuff done in the moment, but they encourage long term dependence and I also just dont believe it's good for anyone to be hopped on speed in the long term.

This is scientifically inaccurate. ADHD meds bring up the level of dopamine that is typical in a Neurotypical person. Addiction is a possibility, but according to our psychiatrist, it is not common. More common are negative dopamine seeking behaviors, including risky driving behavior and addiction because people are looking to get more dopamine in their brains through external measures. Some people are able to get off ADHD meds and some people are not as adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was diagnosed ADHD and put on drugs when I was 11/12. As an adult I have chosen to go off them entirely.
Most ADHD drugs are just uppers. Yes, they help you get stuff done in the moment, but they encourage long term dependence and I also just dont believe it's good for anyone to be hopped on speed in the long term.

This is scientifically inaccurate. ADHD meds bring up the level of dopamine that is typical in a Neurotypical person. Addiction is a possibility, but according to our psychiatrist, it is not common. More common are negative dopamine seeking behaviors, including risky driving behavior and addiction because people are looking to get more dopamine in their brains through external measures. Some people are able to get off ADHD meds and some people are not as adults.

The dopamine theory isn’t really proven.

[Anonymous]

Can we go back to the fact that 25% of boys get ADHD diagnoses??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we go back to the fact that 25% of boys get ADHD diagnoses??

+1 it does raise the question of what a “disorder” is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we go back to the fact that 25% of boys get ADHD diagnoses??

Did you read the whole article? The baseball player who was medicated so he would be more interested in studying for his SAT is an example of a boy who should not have been diagnosed or medicated. If he is an example of the 25% of teen boys with a diagnosis, this is a problem with the diagnostic process.

My pediatrician won’t prescribe antibiotics for an ear infection unless my child has gone a week without it resolving on its own. Sometimes that annoying because if it is bacterial my kids just suffers longer, but I also understand it’s to prevent the unnecessary use of antibiotics if it’s viral.

This is a problem which is fixable without denying kids who do benefit from a diagnosis/meds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we go back to the fact that 25% of boys get ADHD diagnoses??

Did you read the whole article? The baseball player who was medicated so he would be more interested in studying for his SAT is an example of a boy who should not have been diagnosed or medicated. If he is an example of the 25% of teen boys with a diagnosis, this is a problem with the diagnostic process.

My pediatrician won’t prescribe antibiotics for an ear infection unless my child has gone a week without it resolving on its own. Sometimes that annoying because if it is bacterial my kids just suffers longer, but I also understand it’s to prevent the unnecessary use of antibiotics if it’s viral.

This is a problem which is fixable without denying kids who do benefit from a diagnosis/meds.

Yeah ITA. I know there are kids who literally cannot sit still and benefit greatly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we go back to the fact that 25% of boys get ADHD diagnoses??

Did you read the whole article? The baseball player who was medicated so he would be more interested in studying for his SAT is an example of a boy who should not have been diagnosed or medicated. If he is an example of the 25% of teen boys with a diagnosis, this is a problem with the diagnostic process.

My pediatrician won’t prescribe antibiotics for an ear infection unless my child has gone a week without it resolving on its own. Sometimes that annoying because if it is bacterial my kids just suffers longer, but I also understand it’s to prevent the unnecessary use of antibiotics if it’s viral.

This is a problem which is fixable without denying kids who do benefit from a diagnosis/meds.

Your ped is a quack.

Ear infections do not go away on their own that is ridiculous a shattered ear drum is highly likely in this case you idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we go back to the fact that 25% of boys get ADHD diagnoses??

Did you read the whole article? The baseball player who was medicated so he would be more interested in studying for his SAT is an example of a boy who should not have been diagnosed or medicated. If he is an example of the 25% of teen boys with a diagnosis, this is a problem with the diagnostic process.

My pediatrician won’t prescribe antibiotics for an ear infection unless my child has gone a week without it resolving on its own. Sometimes that annoying because if it is bacterial my kids just suffers longer, but I also understand it’s to prevent the unnecessary use of antibiotics if it’s viral.

This is a problem which is fixable without denying kids who do benefit from a diagnosis/meds.

Your ped is a quack.

Ear infections do not go away on their own that is ridiculous a shattered ear drum is highly likely in this case you idiot.

+1. Jeez who lets their kids with an ear infection - terrible pain and fever - go untreated for a week?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we go back to the fact that 25% of boys get ADHD diagnoses??

Did you read the whole article? The baseball player who was medicated so he would be more interested in studying for his SAT is an example of a boy who should not have been diagnosed or medicated. If he is an example of the 25% of teen boys with a diagnosis, this is a problem with the diagnostic process.

My pediatrician won’t prescribe antibiotics for an ear infection unless my child has gone a week without it resolving on its own. Sometimes that annoying because if it is bacterial my kids just suffers longer, but I also understand it’s to prevent the unnecessary use of antibiotics if it’s viral.

This is a problem which is fixable without denying kids who do benefit from a diagnosis/meds.

Your ped is a quack.

Ear infections do not go away on their own that is ridiculous a shattered ear drum is highly likely in this case you idiot.

+1. Jeez who lets their kids with an ear infection - terrible pain and fever - go untreated for a week?

Most ear infections go away on their own. Some may need antibiotics. Some doctors are more committed to reducing antibiotic use than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we go back to the fact that 25% of boys get ADHD diagnoses??

Did you read the whole article? The baseball player who was medicated so he would be more interested in studying for his SAT is an example of a boy who should not have been diagnosed or medicated. If he is an example of the 25% of teen boys with a diagnosis, this is a problem with the diagnostic process.

My pediatrician won’t prescribe antibiotics for an ear infection unless my child has gone a week without it resolving on its own. Sometimes that annoying because if it is bacterial my kids just suffers longer, but I also understand it’s to prevent the unnecessary use of antibiotics if it’s viral.

This is a problem which is fixable without denying kids who do benefit from a diagnosis/meds.

Your ped is a quack.

Ear infections do not go away on their own that is ridiculous a shattered ear drum is highly likely in this case you idiot.

+1. Jeez who lets their kids with an ear infection - terrible pain and fever - go untreated for a week?

Watchful waiting has been the recommendation for ear infections for well over a decade. Not for a whole week but 2-3 days.

[Anonymous]

My son has adhd. He watches engineering videos for fun and tests in 97% in math and reading. His middle school science teachers tell me they learn things from him. But even with medication, he makes b-s in all his classes and is miserable doing homework. Absolutely the environment (school, school work) is a bad fit for him. He learns at school but it's a terrible mismatch for him, and much of his school work doesn't capture his mastery of the material.

But I want him to go to college so he can have a fulfilling job and not be consigned to well-paid but physically taxing, dirty labor that will break down his body by age 60. He doesn't want to be a plumber or an auto mechanic. If he grew up in the 1960s, that would have been his future and the future of the 25% of the boys who were bad at school despite loving to read and being curious, knowledge sponges in ways so many boys who are "good" at school aren't. Now, the expectation of "college for all" is what keeps the school taking him seriously and not funneling him to vocational ed.


My brother was like this. Was on Ritalin much of his childhood, but stopped before college. Dropped out-- would get As in some classes that interested him and fail others. Went back to school in his late 20s, finished his degree and got a master's. Is now a software engineer at Amazon and does very well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "changing the environment" argument is just a modern version of "the world needs ditchdiggers too".

They're saying some kids cant' concentrate in some environments, so instead of medicating them and giving them a chance to concentrate, we should put them in remedial classes and find jobs for them that don't require concentration. A small percentage will make it in unique jobs that value unstructured thought and don't penalize disorganization.

In my kids' case, switching from schools that used the workshop model, where there was a lot of humm and buzz and working in small groups and laptops insufficiently guarded to prevent kids from wandering off into the depths of the internet, to one where there was a lot more sitting in rows, listening to the teacher, and writing with pen and paper, significantly improved their learning experience. The work they're doing now doesn't seem at all remedial.

We had the opposite effect. The boredom of sitting in rows and having information pushed on them (instead of engaged and active in learning) has been detrimental

Thank goodness we have successfully avoided school choice, so we can instead engage in winner take all fights over the county school system in regards to classroom style. Loser's children flunk miserabley. Dire consequences make the struggle so much more entertaining!