New York Times Magazine article questioning adhd commonplaces (including meds)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that the ADHD medications have been overhyped and overused. There is a lot of pressure placed on kids and parents to the effect that your kid is a problem at school and perhaps at home too and meds provide an easy fix so why won’t you go with the medication? You’re being an irresponsible parent if you don’t medicate your child if they are identified as having ADHD. Now, at least there is evidence that it is not that simple as just taking the medication or not. Also, the medication suppresses not just appetite but physical growth in kids. That is wild to me

The increased risk of mania and psychosis is pretty shocking too.

I’ve never heard this before this article. I have two sons with ADHD. One refuses medication bc it makes him flat. The other also has anxiety and stimulants exacerbate his anxiety. Seeing that they can cause psychosis makes me adamant never to have them try them again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that the medication does not help academic outcomes is mind blowing to me. Why take it especially with all the side effects?

The side effects aren't bad for all kids and the effect behavioral issues can have on a kids life is barely discussed in the article.

+1. My DS doesn’t notice the side effects and he claims the medication helps him. When we’ve tried to go without meds he starts falling behind in school.

Same. That said, DS is beginning to grow out of the major behavioral issues at 13 through maturity. Not medication.

But, I’ll be honest, we don’t even know if he has ADHD. That’s just what the testing said. He’s very sensory seeking. He’s very emotional. He can’t sit still. He doesn’t have the attention span to read…basically anything. Medication helps on many levels. It certainly doesn’t cure anything.

[Anonymous]

I just read the article and have a fairly mixed response to it. For context I have 2 girls who were diagnosed with ADHD at age 6 with anger issues, so not the later age diagnosis the article highlights.

I felt overall the article did not fully talk about the negative impacts of not medicating for kids with severe ADHd. They did talk to the one person at the end who ended up thriving in college after being put in remedial classes (which was a great perspective), but the baseball player who took need to help study for SAT should never have been given medication. That’s a diagnosis issue - which they talk about a lot - not a medication issue.

My DH was never medicated for ADHD (and still isn’t) but had a really turbulent childhood - comes from an UMC family, and his poor impulse control and anger issues led to serious drug and alcohol issues before age 14. He almost flunked his 8th grade year. He kicked out of his symptoms by 10 th grade, did well enough then to go to a good college and is now a successful adult - he has found a career he can hyperfocus on.

Since he had such a turbulent childhood, my fear for my children and ADHD is not learning, it’s impulse control and poor decision making. The article was very reductive in mostly talking about the lack of impact on learning. I did like that they talked about how meds can improve relationships with parents (not sure they mentioned peers?) - my relationship with my oldest child has been completely transformed with stimulants - even after doing parent training, it felt like I spent a lot of time correcting or managing her - she got so much more positive feedback from me and from teachers.

This article did make me think about how much longer we should medicate our girls - I want to pull the study and see if any populations continues to benefit after taking the meds 3 years. We may do a medication-free trial this summer to see if they feel like there is any impact.

I also wanted to mention (sorry this is so scattered - there is a lot covered in the article) that the people they interviewed hated their med side effects, but that’s not everyone’s experience. I think the side effects are real, and I know a lot of people do quit do to side effects, but my girls don’t report feeling different on the meds - they still feel like themselves - they do have appetite suppression for lunch and they don’t like the feeling when they are coming off it in the afternoons, but they aren’t mentioning the type of things the article mentions - and yes, I am asking and so is the psychiatrist.

Finally, I completely agreed with the vision that people with ADHD need to seek and environment where they can thrive as adults, hopefully not medicated. I see DH as a great example - he has a career he loves and is super successful, and that’s what I want for my girls. I think of it as the skills needed for being good at “school” are not the same as th pose for being good at “life” and the goal is to.m be good at life. All that being said, I am not sure how good DH would be at managing the minutiae of dealing with our kids - I took over paying bills when our water almost got turned off. So they also need to find a partner who is understanding.

I did appreciate the article overall - it has definitely made me think again about why we are medicating our girls, and I think we will trial a break this year which we otherwise would not have done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was diagnosed ADHD and put on drugs when I was 11/12. As an adult I have chosen to go off them entirely.
Most ADHD drugs are just uppers. Yes, they help you get stuff done in the moment, but they encourage long term dependence and I also just dont believe it's good for anyone to be hopped on speed in the long term.

Well said. Doctors don’t really know how to heal it at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was diagnosed ADHD and put on drugs when I was 11/12. As an adult I have chosen to go off them entirely.
Most ADHD drugs are just uppers. Yes, they help you get stuff done in the moment, but they encourage long term dependence and I also just dont believe it's good for anyone to be hopped on speed in the long term.

Well said. Doctors don’t really know how to heal it at all.

Or they don’t want to deal with the time it takes to find the real causes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just read the article and have a fairly mixed response to it. For context I have 2 girls who were diagnosed with ADHD at age 6 with anger issues, so not the later age diagnosis the article highlights.

I felt overall the article did not fully talk about the negative impacts of not medicating for kids with severe ADHd. They did talk to the one person at the end who ended up thriving in college after being put in remedial classes (which was a great perspective), but the baseball player who took need to help study for SAT should never have been given medication. That’s a diagnosis issue - which they talk about a lot - not a medication issue.

My DH was never medicated for ADHD (and still isn’t) but had a really turbulent childhood - comes from an UMC family, and his poor impulse control and anger issues led to serious drug and alcohol issues before age 14. He almost flunked his 8th grade year. He kicked out of his symptoms by 10 th grade, did well enough then to go to a good college and is now a successful adult - he has found a career he can hyperfocus on.

Since he had such a turbulent childhood, my fear for my children and ADHD is not learning, it’s impulse control and poor decision making. The article was very reductive in mostly talking about the lack of impact on learning. I did like that they talked about how meds can improve relationships with parents (not sure they mentioned peers?) - my relationship with my oldest child has been completely transformed with stimulants - even after doing parent training, it felt like I spent a lot of time correcting or managing her - she got so much more positive feedback from me and from teachers.

This article did make me think about how much longer we should medicate our girls - I want to pull the study and see if any populations continues to benefit after taking the meds 3 years. We may do a medication-free trial this summer to see if they feel like there is any impact.

I also wanted to mention (sorry this is so scattered - there is a lot covered in the article) that the people they interviewed hated their med side effects, but that’s not everyone’s experience. I think the side effects are real, and I know a lot of people do quit do to side effects, but my girls don’t report feeling different on the meds - they still feel like themselves - they do have appetite suppression for lunch and they don’t like the feeling when they are coming off it in the afternoons, but they aren’t mentioning the type of things the article mentions - and yes, I am asking and so is the psychiatrist.

Finally, I completely agreed with the vision that people with ADHD need to seek and environment where they can thrive as adults, hopefully not medicated. I see DH as a great example - he has a career he loves and is super successful, and that’s what I want for my girls. I think of it as the skills needed for being good at “school” are not the same as th pose for being good at “life” and the goal is to.m be good at life. All that being said, I am not sure how good DH would be at managing the minutiae of dealing with our kids - I took over paying bills when our water almost got turned off. So they also need to find a partner who is understanding.

I did appreciate the article overall - it has definitely made me think again about why we are medicating our girls, and I think we will trial a break this year which we otherwise would not have done.

Interesting to hear your perspective. You’re right the article did not talk about severe ADHD or about medication helping with impulse control

[Anonymous]

I love it when the NYT tries to find common ground with an HHS secretary who thinks measles vaccine causes autism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love it when the NYT tries to find common ground with an HHS secretary who thinks measles vaccine causes autism.

Just stop.

[Anonymous]

Thought provoking article for sure. Boys are over diagnosed and over medicated, and their learnings outcomes don't improve over the long-term with stimulants, and as it turns out we don't know enough about what works, is what it seems to say.

However, I will say as a parent with a girl with ADHD, it's disappointing to once again read research that overlooks girls yet again.

I'm also not sure my takeaways are so concretely anti-meds, as others are. On a personal note, medication has helped our teen daughter a lot with regulation which has helped enormously in every facet of her life.

Lots of switching meds and trial and error to find something that helped, and having to go off and on again due to side effects. But overall, being on meds has been so much better for her than times when she's off of them.

Also, I'm not sure why the reporter fixated on there being no biological markers for ADHD. I think our understanding of so many mental health and behavioral health conditions are so far behind our understanding of other medical conditions. We just seem to struggle when it comes to brain science.

[Anonymous]

My son was diagnosed with "moderate to severe ADHD" and started meds in 5th grade. He went from failing to a straight A student. We were already a very education-oriented household who took learning seriously. He'd been tutored by me after school every day, loved to read, etc. The difference was solely the meds.

He needed them until 12th grade. By 12th grade, he was getting habituated and needed regular breaks from meds, because we couldn't increase the dose without triggering serious side effects (completely suppressed appetite, anxiety, insomnia, etc).

And now he's in college, and has been gradually tapering his dose to... nothing. In sophomore year of college, he takes nothing. He still has extended time on tests, and uses it. But no meds. It's a great relief to us that he can "function" without ADHD medication. He is often late, forgets many things... but before he could not function AT ALL without his meds! Now he can. Sort of.

My conclusion is that growing up and adolescence really does a number on kids with executive function disorder, and that meds are sometimes entirely necessary to get them through. But they don't need to use them for life.

Now I'm not saying that my son can be a homeowner, deal with chores, repairs, etc, and get married and deal with in-laws and kids and parenting, AND hold down a job successfully, all the while being unmedicated. Probably not. He will need to pare down his life and if he wants those things, he will need to disclose his limitations to any future wife so they're not left holding the bag resentfully. But he can have a low-key life that has some of those things, without meds.

As with everything in life, it's not all or nothing. You need to deeply understand the patient, his symptoms, the relief medication brings, deal with the side effects, and... know when to stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thought provoking article for sure. Boys are over diagnosed and over medicated, and their learnings outcomes don't improve over the long-term with stimulants, and as it turns out we don't know enough about what works, is what it seems to say.

However, I will say as a parent with a girl with ADHD, it's disappointing to once again read research that overlooks girls yet again.

I'm also not sure my takeaways are so concretely anti-meds, as others are. On a personal note, medication has helped our teen daughter a lot with regulation which has helped enormously in every facet of her life.

Lots of switching meds and trial and error to find something that helped, and having to go off and on again due to side effects. But overall, being on meds has been so much better for her than times when she's off of them.

Also, I'm not sure why the reporter fixated on there being no biological markers for ADHD. I think our understanding of so many mental health and behavioral health conditions are so far behind our understanding of other medical conditions. We just seem to struggle when it comes to brain science.

Did you look at the studies cited in the article? My guess is they were fairly gender balanced.

As for biomarkers, I think the point is that ADHD is unlike other medical conditions in that it has no biomarkers, which casts doubt on the whole concept.

[Anonymous]

I was diagnosed as an adult in my 30's with ADD. For context, I'm 58 now. I was on meds for about 7 years and have been off them for 14. My perspective is - yes - I performed horribly in HS despite being very bright (straight As in middle school and then fell apart in HS when the workload got hard - this is very common). I messed up many things in my life - had to learn through fear and messing up to be on time, a good friend, a good listener, handle substances better (drink less, quit smoking etc.), how to focus on little things, and stay organized. Despite my various bad habits and bad grades, I am very outgoing and an over-achiever in my career (outgoing, creative and a fun personality is def. a plus of ADHDers). I have been happily married for over 30 years, and my husband (also very successful) has mild ADD as well. Having kids and the chaos is what made me realize that I had ADD, and to cope and pull me out of depression I was prescribed meds. I raised my kids on the meds - and it was a total fog. But fast forward, to where I am now and where my kids are, I think patience, time and coaching are the very best ways to deal with many forms of ADD/ADHD. People with ADD/ADHD are on their own time schedule - and it takes longer for them to mature in many ways. I think if we, as a society, didn't try to push our kids to keep up, and gave them the time they need to work things out on their own, it would spare a lot of the anxiety and depression and anger that comes with constant nagging, tutoring, monitoring that many parents put in place today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son was diagnosed with "moderate to severe ADHD" and started meds in 5th grade. He went from failing to a straight A student. We were already a very education-oriented household who took learning seriously. He'd been tutored by me after school every day, loved to read, etc. The difference was solely the meds.

He needed them until 12th grade. By 12th grade, he was getting habituated and needed regular breaks from meds, because we couldn't increase the dose without triggering serious side effects (completely suppressed appetite, anxiety, insomnia, etc).

And now he's in college, and has been gradually tapering his dose to... nothing. In sophomore year of college, he takes nothing. He still has extended time on tests, and uses it. But no meds. It's a great relief to us that he can "function" without ADHD medication. He is often late, forgets many things... but before he could not function AT ALL without his meds! Now he can. Sort of.

My conclusion is that growing up and adolescence really does a number on kids with executive function disorder, and that meds are sometimes entirely necessary to get them through. But they don't need to use them for life.

Now I'm not saying that my son can be a homeowner, deal with chores, repairs, etc, and get married and deal with in-laws and kids and parenting, AND hold down a job successfully, all the while being unmedicated. Probably not. He will need to pare down his life and if he wants those things, he will need to disclose his limitations to any future wife so they're not left holding the bag resentfully. But he can have a low-key life that has some of those things, without meds.

As with everything in life, it's not all or nothing. You need to deeply understand the patient, his symptoms, the relief medication brings, deal with the side effects, and... know when to stop.

I think the bigger point is that society should be more accepting and forgiving of kids like your son. They should not be forced to conform to the narrow path that our culture has deemed acceptable. For example, there are cultures where being late is not a cardinal sin and being busy and productive for 12 h every single day is not admired for its intrinsic value. The expectations placed on kids are unrealistic for many of our youngsters. Perhaps we need to rethink our expectations and make sure there are many on-ramps to a successful and sustainable life rather than forcing kids to take medication and adjust to our narrow set of priorities

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TLDR; ADHD meds keep teachers happier but don’t actually result in better learning outcomes for kids at school.

My son was depressed by 2nd or 3rd grade. He told me he was tired of “being bad.” He hated school, teachers, other kids because they didn’t want to be his friend. Medication saved him. He could finally control his own actions. He could think before acting. The impulsivity greatly diminished. Kid wanted to bf friends with him. He could finally put his thoughts on paper because his mind wasn’t racing a mile a minute. He’s in college now and no longer needs medication. I doubt he’d be in such a good position now without them.

[Anonymous]

We medicate my very hyper very bright fourth grader. Because we can’t afford a private school with small classes, lots of outdoor time, and free play.

I absolutely believe (and have seen) that in the right field environment, his sunrooms decrease AND what symptoms remain are normalized. I just can’t afford that environment, so we do our best with what we have.