New York Times Magazine article questioning adhd commonplaces (including meds)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TLDR; ADHD meds keep teachers happier but don’t actually result in better learning outcomes for kids at school.

And behavioral improvements taper off after 3 years too.

Is that true for everyone though? Are the people who take med breaks over the summer seeing the same outcome?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The fact that the medication does not help academic outcomes is mind blowing to me. Why take it especially with all the side effects?

As a special ed teacher, I thought this was common knowledge. It's what I've heard and read in research since I started teaching decades ago, and it certainly matches what I've seen in my classroom.

ADHD meds can improve grades, because kids don't rush and make impulsive errors so they turn in better work. But they don't improve understanding or retention of the material.

Academic learning isn't everything at school. In my experience, (caveat: teachers don't see the same kids over many years so I can only compare kids within the year in which they start meds). ADHD meds improve peer interactions and classroom behaviors. For my kid, if impulsivity was interfering with my kid keeping friends, or was causing aggression, or was constantly getting negative feedback which was hurting his self esteem, then I would look at intervention, including but not limited to meds, because those things are devastating to kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that the medication does not help academic outcomes is mind blowing to me. Why take it especially with all the side effects?

As a special ed teacher, I thought this was common knowledge. It's what I've heard and read in research since I started teaching decades ago, and it certainly matches what I've seen in my classroom.

ADHD meds can improve grades, because kids don't rush and make impulsive errors so they turn in better work. But they don't improve understanding or retention of the material.

Academic learning isn't everything at school. In my experience, (caveat: teachers don't see the same kids over many years so I can only compare kids within the year in which they start meds). ADHD meds improve peer interactions and classroom behaviors. For my kid, if impulsivity was interfering with my kid keeping friends, or was causing aggression, or was constantly getting negative feedback which was hurting his self esteem, then I would look at intervention, including but not limited to meds, because those things are devastating to kids.

I had the impulsive/aggressive kid and didn’t medicate him because it would have taken a court order (xDH refused completely). DS did outgrow the aggressive behavior, but I definitely would have tried the meds if it was my choice only. At the same time, now that we are out of that phase, there’s some benefit to the fact that we didn’t have to deal with any side effects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that the medication does not help academic outcomes is mind blowing to me. Why take it especially with all the side effects?

As a special ed teacher, I thought this was common knowledge. It's what I've heard and read in research since I started teaching decades ago, and it certainly matches what I've seen in my classroom.

ADHD meds can improve grades, because kids don't rush and make impulsive errors so they turn in better work. But they don't improve understanding or retention of the material.

Academic learning isn't everything at school. In my experience, (caveat: teachers don't see the same kids over many years so I can only compare kids within the year in which they start meds). ADHD meds improve peer interactions and classroom behaviors. For my kid, if impulsivity was interfering with my kid keeping friends, or was causing aggression, or was constantly getting negative feedback which was hurting his self esteem, then I would look at intervention, including but not limited to meds, because those things are devastating to kids.

I had the impulsive/aggressive kid and didn’t medicate him because it would have taken a court order (xDH refused completely). DS did outgrow the aggressive behavior, but I definitely would have tried the meds if it was my choice only. At the same time, now that we are out of that phase, there’s some benefit to the fact that we didn’t have to deal with any side effects.

Also …. The behavioral therapy I did was life-changing for me and him. So it’s not like I did nothing. But the behavioral therapy was expensive and required a lot of motivation and engagement on my part - not all parents have that.

[Anonymous]

I do think that the ADHD medications have been overhyped and overused. There is a lot of pressure placed on kids and parents to the effect that your kid is a problem at school and perhaps at home too and meds provide an easy fix so why won’t you go with the medication? You’re being an irresponsible parent if you don’t medicate your child if they are identified as having ADHD. Now, at least there is evidence that it is not that simple as just taking the medication or not. Also, the medication suppresses not just appetite but physical growth in kids. That is wild to me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think that the ADHD medications have been overhyped and overused. There is a lot of pressure placed on kids and parents to the effect that your kid is a problem at school and perhaps at home too and meds provide an easy fix so why won’t you go with the medication? You’re being an irresponsible parent if you don’t medicate your child if they are identified as having ADHD. Now, at least there is evidence that it is not that simple as just taking the medication or not. Also, the medication suppresses not just appetite but physical growth in kids. That is wild to me

The increased risk of mania and psychosis is pretty shocking too.

[Anonymous]

This definitely made me feel differently about medicating my 12 year old daughter with dyslexia with a trauma history. She is able to stick with reading practice while medicated much better, and seems to understand what she's reading better, but she is bummed about how slowly she's growing. Only started medicating about a year and a half ago?
But I am still left with lots of questions, particularly about this:
One group of children, those whose A.D.H.D. symptoms are accompanied by intense anger, are at much higher risk of negative outcomes than those with A.D.H.D. symptoms alone. Their early symptoms, Nigg found, are often the beginning of a diagnostic cascade that leads to real problems in adolescence and adulthood, including school dropout, criminal behavior and elevated risk of serious injury or early death. Those patients, representing about a third of children diagnosed with A.D.H.D., need early attention and comprehensive treatment — most likely including medication but often going well beyond it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that the ADHD medications have been overhyped and overused. There is a lot of pressure placed on kids and parents to the effect that your kid is a problem at school and perhaps at home too and meds provide an easy fix so why won’t you go with the medication? You’re being an irresponsible parent if you don’t medicate your child if they are identified as having ADHD. Now, at least there is evidence that it is not that simple as just taking the medication or not. Also, the medication suppresses not just appetite but physical growth in kids. That is wild to me

The increased risk of mania and psychosis is pretty shocking too.

+100. We are too cavalier in this country with attaching labels to various behaviors and expecting everything to be fixed by taking a pill.
Why do kids need to conform to certain expectations? Maybe we need different types of schools to accommodate different types of kids. Why do we have the expectation that if you are not getting As and Bs in school, there is something wrong with you. Maybe you are just wired differently and that is ok. Maybe everyone is not meant to have a desk job where you are sitting in boring meetings all day. Why do we venerate white collar jobs but look down on people who work with their hands? The college for all movement was extremely misguided and forced all kids to be placed in a one size fits all box

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that the ADHD medications have been overhyped and overused. There is a lot of pressure placed on kids and parents to the effect that your kid is a problem at school and perhaps at home too and meds provide an easy fix so why won’t you go with the medication? You’re being an irresponsible parent if you don’t medicate your child if they are identified as having ADHD. Now, at least there is evidence that it is not that simple as just taking the medication or not. Also, the medication suppresses not just appetite but physical growth in kids. That is wild to me

The increased risk of mania and psychosis is pretty shocking too.

+100. We are too cavalier in this country with attaching labels to various behaviors and expecting everything to be fixed by taking a pill.
Why do kids need to conform to certain expectations? Maybe we need different types of schools to accommodate different types of kids. Why do we have the expectation that if you are not getting As and Bs in school, there is something wrong with you. Maybe you are just wired differently and that is ok. Maybe everyone is not meant to have a desk job where you are sitting in boring meetings all day. Why do we venerate white collar jobs but look down on people who work with their hands? The college for all movement was extremely misguided and forced all kids to be placed in a one size fits all box

My son has adhd. He watches engineering videos for fun and tests in 97% in math and reading. His middle school science teachers tell me they learn things from him. But even with medication, he makes b-s in all his classes and is miserable doing homework. Absolutely the environment (school, school work) is a bad fit for him. He learns at school but it's a terrible mismatch for him, and much of his school work doesn't capture his mastery of the material.

But I want him to go to college so he can have a fulfilling job and not be consigned to well-paid but physically taxing, dirty labor that will break down his body by age 60. He doesn't want to be a plumber or an auto mechanic. If he grew up in the 1960s, that would have been his future and the future of the 25% of the boys who were bad at school despite loving to read and being curious, knowledge sponges in ways so many boys who are "good" at school aren't. Now, the expectation of "college for all" is what keeps the school taking him seriously and not funneling him to vocational ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that the ADHD medications have been overhyped and overused. There is a lot of pressure placed on kids and parents to the effect that your kid is a problem at school and perhaps at home too and meds provide an easy fix so why won’t you go with the medication? You’re being an irresponsible parent if you don’t medicate your child if they are identified as having ADHD. Now, at least there is evidence that it is not that simple as just taking the medication or not. Also, the medication suppresses not just appetite but physical growth in kids. That is wild to me

The increased risk of mania and psychosis is pretty shocking too.

+100. We are too cavalier in this country with attaching labels to various behaviors and expecting everything to be fixed by taking a pill.
Why do kids need to conform to certain expectations? Maybe we need different types of schools to accommodate different types of kids. Why do we have the expectation that if you are not getting As and Bs in school, there is something wrong with you. Maybe you are just wired differently and that is ok. Maybe everyone is not meant to have a desk job where you are sitting in boring meetings all day. Why do we venerate white collar jobs but look down on people who work with their hands? The college for all movement was extremely misguided and forced all kids to be placed in a one size fits all box

My son has adhd. He watches engineering videos for fun and tests in 97% in math and reading. His middle school science teachers tell me they learn things from him. But even with medication, he makes b-s in all his classes and is miserable doing homework. Absolutely the environment (school, school work) is a bad fit for him. He learns at school but it's a terrible mismatch for him, and much of his school work doesn't capture his mastery of the material.

But I want him to go to college so he can have a fulfilling job and not be consigned to well-paid but physically taxing, dirty labor that will break down his body by age 60. He doesn't want to be a plumber or an auto mechanic. If he grew up in the 1960s, that would have been his future and the future of the 25% of the boys who were bad at school despite loving to read and being curious, knowledge sponges in ways so many boys who are "good" at school aren't. Now, the expectation of "college for all" is what keeps the school taking him seriously and not funneling him to vocational ed.

Also I think he will love college though he will likely fail a couple classes and have to retake them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that the ADHD medications have been overhyped and overused. There is a lot of pressure placed on kids and parents to the effect that your kid is a problem at school and perhaps at home too and meds provide an easy fix so why won’t you go with the medication? You’re being an irresponsible parent if you don’t medicate your child if they are identified as having ADHD. Now, at least there is evidence that it is not that simple as just taking the medication or not. Also, the medication suppresses not just appetite but physical growth in kids. That is wild to me

The increased risk of mania and psychosis is pretty shocking too.

+100. We are too cavalier in this country with attaching labels to various behaviors and expecting everything to be fixed by taking a pill.
Why do kids need to conform to certain expectations? Maybe we need different types of schools to accommodate different types of kids. Why do we have the expectation that if you are not getting As and Bs in school, there is something wrong with you. Maybe you are just wired differently and that is ok. Maybe everyone is not meant to have a desk job where you are sitting in boring meetings all day. Why do we venerate white collar jobs but look down on people who work with their hands? The college for all movement was extremely misguided and forced all kids to be placed in a one size fits all box

My son has adhd. He watches engineering videos for fun and tests in 97% in math and reading. His middle school science teachers tell me they learn things from him. But even with medication, he makes b-s in all his classes and is miserable doing homework. Absolutely the environment (school, school work) is a bad fit for him. He learns at school but it's a terrible mismatch for him, and much of his school work doesn't capture his mastery of the material.

But I want him to go to college so he can have a fulfilling job and not be consigned to well-paid but physically taxing, dirty labor that will break down his body by age 60. He doesn't want to be a plumber or an auto mechanic. If he grew up in the 1960s, that would have been his future and the future of the 25% of the boys who were bad at school despite loving to read and being curious, knowledge sponges in ways so many boys who are "good" at school aren't. Now, the expectation of "college for all" is what keeps the school taking him seriously and not funneling him to vocational ed.

Does your son know what he wants to do? I ask because my son sounds very similar. He loves building and tinkering but not sure he’d love the strict and boring nature of engineering as a career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that the ADHD medications have been overhyped and overused. There is a lot of pressure placed on kids and parents to the effect that your kid is a problem at school and perhaps at home too and meds provide an easy fix so why won’t you go with the medication? You’re being an irresponsible parent if you don’t medicate your child if they are identified as having ADHD. Now, at least there is evidence that it is not that simple as just taking the medication or not. Also, the medication suppresses not just appetite but physical growth in kids. That is wild to me

The increased risk of mania and psychosis is pretty shocking too.

+100. We are too cavalier in this country with attaching labels to various behaviors and expecting everything to be fixed by taking a pill.
Why do kids need to conform to certain expectations? Maybe we need different types of schools to accommodate different types of kids. Why do we have the expectation that if you are not getting As and Bs in school, there is something wrong with you. Maybe you are just wired differently and that is ok. Maybe everyone is not meant to have a desk job where you are sitting in boring meetings all day. Why do we venerate white collar jobs but look down on people who work with their hands? The college for all movement was extremely misguided and forced all kids to be placed in a one size fits all box

My son has adhd. He watches engineering videos for fun and tests in 97% in math and reading. His middle school science teachers tell me they learn things from him. But even with medication, he makes b-s in all his classes and is miserable doing homework. Absolutely the environment (school, school work) is a bad fit for him. He learns at school but it's a terrible mismatch for him, and much of his school work doesn't capture his mastery of the material.

But I want him to go to college so he can have a fulfilling job and not be consigned to well-paid but physically taxing, dirty labor that will break down his body by age 60. He doesn't want to be a plumber or an auto mechanic. If he grew up in the 1960s, that would have been his future and the future of the 25% of the boys who were bad at school despite loving to read and being curious, knowledge sponges in ways so many boys who are "good" at school aren't. Now, the expectation of "college for all" is what keeps the school taking him seriously and not funneling him to vocational ed.

Your son is the kind of kid in the 80s-90s would have had a low GPA but aced the SATs and gotten into a solid college, and done well once he was able to focus on classes he chose. One big reason for the diagnosis/medication push is that we as a society have become intolerant of any struggle in our kids; and because success in school and college admissions is now based on factors that have de-emphasized aptitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that the ADHD medications have been overhyped and overused. There is a lot of pressure placed on kids and parents to the effect that your kid is a problem at school and perhaps at home too and meds provide an easy fix so why won’t you go with the medication? You’re being an irresponsible parent if you don’t medicate your child if they are identified as having ADHD. Now, at least there is evidence that it is not that simple as just taking the medication or not. Also, the medication suppresses not just appetite but physical growth in kids. That is wild to me

The increased risk of mania and psychosis is pretty shocking too.

+100. We are too cavalier in this country with attaching labels to various behaviors and expecting everything to be fixed by taking a pill.
Why do kids need to conform to certain expectations? Maybe we need different types of schools to accommodate different types of kids. Why do we have the expectation that if you are not getting As and Bs in school, there is something wrong with you. Maybe you are just wired differently and that is ok. Maybe everyone is not meant to have a desk job where you are sitting in boring meetings all day. Why do we venerate white collar jobs but look down on people who work with their hands? The college for all movement was extremely misguided and forced all kids to be placed in a one size fits all box

My son has adhd. He watches engineering videos for fun and tests in 97% in math and reading. His middle school science teachers tell me they learn things from him. But even with medication, he makes b-s in all his classes and is miserable doing homework. Absolutely the environment (school, school work) is a bad fit for him. He learns at school but it's a terrible mismatch for him, and much of his school work doesn't capture his mastery of the material.

But I want him to go to college so he can have a fulfilling job and not be consigned to well-paid but physically taxing, dirty labor that will break down his body by age 60. He doesn't want to be a plumber or an auto mechanic. If he grew up in the 1960s, that would have been his future and the future of the 25% of the boys who were bad at school despite loving to read and being curious, knowledge sponges in ways so many boys who are "good" at school aren't. Now, the expectation of "college for all" is what keeps the school taking him seriously and not funneling him to vocational ed.

Is your kid involved in a robotics team? If not, please try one. It's made such a big difference for my kid in just two years. The First Robotics high school league. I think there are some community middle school teams in MoCo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that the ADHD medications have been overhyped and overused. There is a lot of pressure placed on kids and parents to the effect that your kid is a problem at school and perhaps at home too and meds provide an easy fix so why won’t you go with the medication? You’re being an irresponsible parent if you don’t medicate your child if they are identified as having ADHD. Now, at least there is evidence that it is not that simple as just taking the medication or not. Also, the medication suppresses not just appetite but physical growth in kids. That is wild to me

The increased risk of mania and psychosis is pretty shocking too.

+100. We are too cavalier in this country with attaching labels to various behaviors and expecting everything to be fixed by taking a pill.
Why do kids need to conform to certain expectations? Maybe we need different types of schools to accommodate different types of kids. Why do we have the expectation that if you are not getting As and Bs in school, there is something wrong with you. Maybe you are just wired differently and that is ok. Maybe everyone is not meant to have a desk job where you are sitting in boring meetings all day. Why do we venerate white collar jobs but look down on people who work with their hands? The college for all movement was extremely misguided and forced all kids to be placed in a one size fits all box

I agree with this.

This was a hard article to read. I've got two kids with a big age gap. My older has really outgrown most of his issues, but it took years and years. And now I'm back again in the same place with the younger kid. It's just the same exact behavioral challenges.

I'm going to get myself the parent behavior therapy as my younger kid will wait an extra year before starting school. It's unbelievably exhausting to have to parent a child like this. Like firehose of every correction you need to make.

As of yet, we've been a no on meds. I have to say that this article didn't do anything to change my mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that the medication does not help academic outcomes is mind blowing to me. Why take it especially with all the side effects?

The side effects aren't bad for all kids and the effect behavioral issues can have on a kids life is barely discussed in the article.

+1. My DS doesn’t notice the side effects and he claims the medication helps him. When we’ve tried to go without meds he starts falling behind in school.