Van Ness Public Housing

[Anonymous]

It is amazing several years into this debacle, that has been decades in the making, how few people understand what is happening with these older buildings.

The underlying issue is that DC has permanent rent controlled buildings in affluent areas where landlords are forced to accept rents well below what the market would otherwise yield.

The landlords came up with a very creative solution a few years ago that lets them have their cake and eat it too and unfortunately the city abetted this by changing the law.

There were two changes that enabled this.

The first is the city adjusted what section 8 vouchers pay and indexed the payments to the neighborhood so that vouchers that only pay $1300 for a 1 BR in Ward 8 pay $2700 for a 1 BR in Ward 3 - in fact the city decided to index the payments above what the units even rent for in affluent areas, assuming that to get landlords to accept Section 8 vouchers they would need to pay more than market rates.

This probably would not really have netted that many units going to voucher holders because landlords discriminate and the rental market in Ward 3 has always been very strong so while some voucher holders would have likely found units it would not have been very many and would not have been concentrated.

But the landlords devised a very clever work around that the city signed off on which is the city decided that landlords could rent their rent controlled units to voucher holders at the Section 8 rents but still count them as affordable housing.

So overnight landlords were in essence able to double their rents in rent controlled units to above market rate for the entire Ward while not actually improving the units which they would have had to do at great cost to get the same rents on the open market.

So this has cost the city (though a lot of the money comes from the Feds) a great deal of money in the form of over payments for subpar rental units and eviscerated what used to be naturally occurring affordable housing (well not really as it was dictated by regulations) in otherwise expensive Ward 3.

The city can and should fix this by getting rid of two big loopholes in the process here - voucher holders should not be enabled to overpay for units which benefits no one but landlords and rent control units should have some type of income requirements on them which they don't today so the people who benefit from rent control are the ones who need lower rent and probably there should be no back door ways to transfer rent control units to make sure they go to deserving tenants.

If you did this over time you'd in fact get some section 8 tenants into rent controlled buildings but they'd be paying the same rents as the other tenants so the city would benefit directly by paying less in rent and you'd only have a low percentage of rent control units and would likely avoid the concentrated poverty that abets a lot of the out of control behavior.

But you now have two powerful constituencies benefiting from this system - landlords and low income residents and both groups will furiously oppose any fixes that undo this even though it is a really stupid system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Avalon is a really large bldg, think I saw 550 units. It’s concerning. There has been so much violence in and outside surrounding buildings.

I wish lowering rents to get more middle class paying tenants was ever on the table. Before HF took off many of the Van Ness bldg offered free months for a move in special and historically they offered discount coupons.

It’s esp sad for elderly with social ties who had planned to age in place and single/divorced moms who used to flock to the buildings for safety and access to good schools.

That neighborhood was a haven for the elderly and single parents for decades and turned to what it is now almost overnight while Frumin cheered this on.

It started years before Frumin, are you new to DC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's me -- a regular working class person. My child will be in private school due to my ex's job. So with the school issue aside, is DC still feasible? Thanks.

As someone in a similar situation, I’d avoid. Plus VA and MD offer lower taxes and state college options.

DC has the lowest tax burden of the three.

This gets repeated a lot but isn't true.

VA in net has by far the lowest taxes because it has the lowest income tax rates.

Property taxes in the 3 local jurisdictions are almost identical but housing prices in DC are much higher across housing types and income levels so practically speaking property taxes in DC are the highest even if the rates are similar.

DC & MD have similar income tax rates - DC rates are a bit higher but DC has some more carve outs for different groups that somewhat off set that but if you are upper middle class or affluent you are going to pay more in DC.

By far? Ok sure, enjoy your car tax and significantly higher property tax than DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Avalon is a really large bldg, think I saw 550 units. It’s concerning. There has been so much violence in and outside surrounding buildings.

I wish lowering rents to get more middle class paying tenants was ever on the table. Before HF took off many of the Van Ness bldg offered free months for a move in special and historically they offered discount coupons.

It’s esp sad for elderly with social ties who had planned to age in place and single/divorced moms who used to flock to the buildings for safety and access to good schools.

That neighborhood was a haven for the elderly and single parents for decades and turned to what it is now almost overnight while Frumin cheered this on.

It started years before Frumin, are you new to DC?

Frumin has done exactly nothing to fix it, however, despite his many promises. In fact, this is exactly what he wants.

[Anonymous]

It is amazing several years into this debacle, that has been decades in the making, how few people understand what is happening with these older buildings.

The underlying issue is that DC has permanent rent controlled buildings in affluent areas where landlords are forced to accept rents well below what the market would otherwise yield.

The landlords came up with a very creative solution a few years ago that lets them have their cake and eat it too and unfortunately the city abetted this by changing the law.

There were two changes that enabled this.

The first is the city adjusted what section 8 vouchers pay and indexed the payments to the neighborhood so that vouchers that only pay $1300 for a 1 BR in Ward 8 pay $2700 for a 1 BR in Ward 3 - in fact the city decided to index the payments above what the units even rent for in affluent areas, assuming that to get landlords to accept Section 8 vouchers they would need to pay more than market rates.

This probably would not really have netted that many units going to voucher holders because landlords discriminate and the rental market in Ward 3 has always been very strong so while some voucher holders would have likely found units it would not have been very many and would not have been concentrated.

But the landlords devised a very clever work around that the city signed off on which is the city decided that landlords could rent their rent controlled units to voucher holders at the Section 8 rents but still count them as affordable housing.

So overnight landlords were in essence able to double their rents in rent controlled units to above market rate for the entire Ward while not actually improving the units which they would have had to do at great cost to get the same rents on the open market.

So this has cost the city (though a lot of the money comes from the Feds) a great deal of money in the form of over payments for subpar rental units and eviscerated what used to be naturally occurring affordable housing (well not really as it was dictated by regulations) in otherwise expensive Ward 3.

The city can and should fix this by getting rid of two big loopholes in the process here - voucher holders should not be enabled to overpay for units which benefits no one but landlords and rent control units should have some type of income requirements on them which they don't today so the people who benefit from rent control are the ones who need lower rent and probably there should be no back door ways to transfer rent control units to make sure they go to deserving tenants.

If you did this over time you'd in fact get some section 8 tenants into rent controlled buildings but they'd be paying the same rents as the other tenants so the city would benefit directly by paying less in rent and you'd only have a low percentage of rent control units and would likely avoid the concentrated poverty that abets a lot of the out of control behavior.

But you now have two powerful constituencies benefiting from this system - landlords and low income residents and both groups will furiously oppose any fixes that undo this even though it is a really stupid system.

My guess is that you don't actually work in commercial real estate because if you did you would know that this commonly repeated perception is not in fact reality. The vast majority of private owners of multifamily buildings in the NW corridors do not, in fact, want to be converted into de facto public housing. Yes, there are a couple of landlords in NW DC who tried to game the subsidized system in this way but quickly learned the costs to the buildings---in terms of damage, increased security needs, attacks on building staff, and departure of the unsubsidized tenant population ---are not worth any alleged increased revenue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Avalon is a really large bldg, think I saw 550 units. It’s concerning. There has been so much violence in and outside surrounding buildings.

I wish lowering rents to get more middle class paying tenants was ever on the table. Before HF took off many of the Van Ness bldg offered free months for a move in special and historically they offered discount coupons.

It’s esp sad for elderly with social ties who had planned to age in place and single/divorced moms who used to flock to the buildings for safety and access to good schools.

That neighborhood was a haven for the elderly and single parents for decades and turned to what it is now almost overnight while Frumin cheered this on.

It started years before Frumin, are you new to DC?

His 2022 opponent called for a moratorium on new voucher residents, with very good reason. The program was broken then and has since spiraled out of control with multiple fatalities in those buildings, prostitution, and rampant drug use. Frumin has refused to call for a moratorium, despite the issue become worse during his tenure. In fact, he appears to be a cheerleader for this program.

[Anonymous]

I saw a big hood rat man beating his baby mama on Connecticut outside of CVS. He threatened to kill me if I called the police.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Avalon is a really large bldg, think I saw 550 units. It’s concerning. There has been so much violence in and outside surrounding buildings.

I wish lowering rents to get more middle class paying tenants was ever on the table. Before HF took off many of the Van Ness bldg offered free months for a move in special and historically they offered discount coupons.

It’s esp sad for elderly with social ties who had planned to age in place and single/divorced moms who used to flock to the buildings for safety and access to good schools.

That neighborhood was a haven for the elderly and single parents for decades and turned to what it is now almost overnight while Frumin cheered this on.

It started years before Frumin, are you new to DC?

His 2022 opponent called for a moratorium on new voucher residents, with very good reason. The program was broken then and has since spiraled out of control with multiple fatalities in those buildings, prostitution, and rampant drug use. Frumin has refused to call for a moratorium, despite the issue become worse during his tenure. In fact, he appears to be a cheerleader for this program.

The WP article on Sedgwick Gardens was written years before Frumin.

DC Council has prioritized convicts, drug addicts and the severely mentally ill for the vouchers. Even committing violent crime in unit does not lead to loss of voucher, just relocation. The Council has made it almost impossible for landlords to screen for violent criminal backgrounds or to use criteria applied to rent paying tenants. You can be kicked out of public housing but this private public housing is pretty much consequence free. Prostitution, violence and drug dealing in and around buildings on Connecticut and Wisconsin has become sadly commonplace.

[Anonymous]

The situation was created by the government. It advances goals of Bowser’s, benefits landlords and developers and some of the overpayments are likely kicked back. Eric was aggressively blocked by the party in the final days of the campaign. Chen tried for voucher caps, it was a no go. Her raising issues re vouchers and juvenile crime likely ended her career. The Frumin obsessive is either new to DC or hopelessly naive. Even the huge HUD fine did nothing, too many benefit. Only way this changes is if Fed money for the program stops. Biden had dialed it back some.

The status quo benefits many. Housing First is a HUD program started by Bush. The DC flavor is especially problematic but the program has had issues nation wide.

The Council blocking screening of voucher holders by landlords and prioritizing convicts, addicts and the mentally ill, along with poor control over who can apply (self certification so many not even from here) really draw those most likely to create issues.

[Anonymous]

It appears that Frumin tolerated the voucher program in exchange for the mayor supporting the bike lane program. He blew what limited political capital he had and now he looks like a fool. The ANCs have been captured by the GGW crowd but pretty much every neighbor on the corridor is fired up about up this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It appears that Frumin tolerated the voucher program in exchange for the mayor supporting the bike lane program. He blew what limited political capital he had and now he looks like a fool. The ANCs have been captured by the GGW crowd but pretty much every neighbor on the corridor is fired up about up this.

I would not make any assumptions about the “GGW” crowd. I am pro transit and housing development but very against this terribly mismanaged program. In fact it will likely result in me moving to Virginia because as a renter with a child, I’m not going to expose him to the risk of being in an unsafe building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It appears that Frumin tolerated the voucher program in exchange for the mayor supporting the bike lane program. He blew what limited political capital he had and now he looks like a fool. The ANCs have been captured by the GGW crowd but pretty much every neighbor on the corridor is fired up about up this.

I would not make any assumptions about the “GGW” crowd. I am pro transit and housing development but very against this terribly mismanaged program. In fact it will likely result in me moving to Virginia because as a renter with a child, I’m not going to expose him to the risk of being in an unsafe building.

Unfortunately you can’t be pro housing development and anti bad voucher program. They are one and the same in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It appears that Frumin tolerated the voucher program in exchange for the mayor supporting the bike lane program. He blew what limited political capital he had and now he looks like a fool. The ANCs have been captured by the GGW crowd but pretty much every neighbor on the corridor is fired up about up this.

I would not make any assumptions about the “GGW” crowd. I am pro transit and housing development but very against this terribly mismanaged program. In fact it will likely result in me moving to Virginia because as a renter with a child, I’m not going to expose him to the risk of being in an unsafe building.

Unfortunately you can’t be pro housing development and anti bad voucher program. They are one and the same in DC.

It's not pro-housing development. Nothing is being developed, it's all existing buildings. Existing tenants are being pushed out in favor or voucher tenants. It's replacement. Let's not kid ourselves that this is affordable housing "creation".

Previous tenants, law obedient citizens move out somewhere where they don't have to deal with degeneracy, many of them are rent control older tenants and families. People who need housing and have very few options, and often have to move somewhere less convenient while thugs get preferential treatment and cannot be touched with a ten foot pole.

This program needs to be reformed. First, make screening mandatory and allow landlords to avoid problem tenants and also make it easy for landlords to get rid of voucher tenants who cause problems easily. People with untreated mental illness or severe drug addiction or criminal tendencies should not be forcibly integrated into the buildings and neighborhoods of people who live by different set of rules. The former do need housing and are often the ones unable to procure it, but not in the settings where their issues cannot be handled and addressed. Residential buildings are not mental health institutions, drug rehabs or low security prisons. There are plenty of low wage people who want better lives, who want to raise kids in safer neighborhoods, and are law obedient, rule following, and hard working who need housing help.

[Anonymous]

Most screening of voucher holders has been made illegal by the DC Council. As the WP has noted, vouchers can’t be lost, even if crimes committed in unit or non-payment, unlike public housing. They are merely re-located nearby.

“Returning citizens,” addicts and the mentally ill are prioritized for the PSH vouchers. The way the program operates reflects features, not bugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good.

Public housing should be spread equally across all wards. Glad to see Ward 3 is finally making baby steps towards carrying its fair share.

+1 from this Ward 3 resident

“This” Ward 3 resident lives miles from upper Connecticut Ave and certainly never walks along it. Guaranteed.

My guess is deep into AU Park near Mass or deep into 20015 right next to RCP at about 27th

Both bastions of the limousine liberals - equity consequences for Thee but not for Me! Enjoy Murch y’all (scurries back to all white Janney/Lafayette with zero apartments )

It won’t be that way forever. Don’t worry, they’re coming for you too.