If college is so expensive ... why don't more families get need-based aid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do okay (at around $200K HHI until a 50% jump three years ago) but are not RICH.

We planned. Used the Vanguard college calculator and saved $400-$600 per month in the 529 since birth.

Limited vacations. Public school. Not a lot of meals out. DIY home improvements. No family support.

Both children will graduate with no student loans.

That's wonderful, but isn't it crazy that we have created a system where college without loans even for the well to do requires 22 years of significant monthly savings to pay for 4 years of education.

That is why there is a public school system as an alternative. Private education at "Elite" schools is a luxury good, not a basic need.

How many elite schools do you think would agree with you that they are nothing but frivolous luxury brands?

Well the schools wont' agree, but look at the world around you. Look at your job and the companies you have worked for. You are most likely surrounded by people (in your same position, and in the management levels above you, possibly even into the C suites) that attended State University and schools ranked lower than 100. Good chance you have never heard of some of the schools they people attend. Yet they are paid the same as you, might even be your manager or a few levels up. What you accomplish in life is due to what you put into it, not where you attend college. Once you realize that you will be happier and likely "wealthier"

Sounds like a T150 state school grad basic misunderstanding of statistics.

Median Ivy salary is about $50k/yr more than median non Ivy, across whole career.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/quote/30/29191582.page

I’d bet a lot of that is due to Ivy grads being able to go work for dads company, or dads friends company upon graduation — would be interesting to see data on Ivy grad salary alongside family net worth …

Also, I’d bet the majority of the full pay UMC families at the 80-90k/yr schools aren’t having to save for retirement (inheritance) or had homes bought outright for them by family trusts etc. so ya, it might look like a handful of 250k families are affording full pay — but we could full pay too with no mortgage or no retirement to save for…
The trust often pays for the grandkids education too—
so the “UMC” kids at these schools are actually from super wealthy families too.

Full pay, have a mortgage, saving for retirement...no inheritance(grew up poor). Same is true of two of my law partners who have kids at ivy-plus schools. Tell yourself what you want but there are plenty of us who knew to save and do not have family wealth to help.
And, looking back at my ivy friends: the most successful in the larger friend group tended to be poor or middle class at the ivy, now doctors, private equity, partners in law firms, one owns a company they started. Our rich friends were more likely to coast a bit in college and not get into med or law school. They bounced around job to job and never quite found their niche. Some may have gotten daddy's money but none that I know and if it has happened they have not revealed it; they live in a smaller house than we do. Though maybe their parents will be paying for grandkids' college.

I think what you say used to be true re jobs. But not so much anymore. The wealth gap is quite a bit larger than it used to be, plus students used to be able to borrow (reasonably) for an ivy education. That’s no longer the case.

Sorry but no. There are super bright, charismatic merit scholar students getting top jobs and grad schools and making bank. Many are female too.

Drop the tropes about everyone working for daddy’s company or actually being dumb. It will hold YOU back or already has.

Agree with your top comment. My point was these kids aren’t achieving this (higher pay on average) because they’re Ivy League grads. The brightest kids from ANY university probably earn more on average.
But you also cannot deny that the very, very wealthy start with an advantage. And that ivies and $ private schools on balance have more of these types of students, which could account for the increased pay (on average) of Ivy grads compared to other universities.
In other words, it’s not the Ivy that accounts for the higher pay, it’s the student. Smart, wealthy, and connected is a winning combination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do okay (at around $200K HHI until a 50% jump three years ago) but are not RICH.

We planned. Used the Vanguard college calculator and saved $400-$600 per month in the 529 since birth.

Limited vacations. Public school. Not a lot of meals out. DIY home improvements. No family support.

Both children will graduate with no student loans.

That's wonderful, but isn't it crazy that we have created a system where college without loans even for the well to do requires 22 years of significant monthly savings to pay for 4 years of education.

That is why there is a public school system as an alternative. Private education at "Elite" schools is a luxury good, not a basic need.

How many elite schools do you think would agree with you that they are nothing but frivolous luxury brands?

Well the schools wont' agree, but look at the world around you. Look at your job and the companies you have worked for. You are most likely surrounded by people (in your same position, and in the management levels above you, possibly even into the C suites) that attended State University and schools ranked lower than 100. Good chance you have never heard of some of the schools they people attend. Yet they are paid the same as you, might even be your manager or a few levels up. What you accomplish in life is due to what you put into it, not where you attend college. Once you realize that you will be happier and likely "wealthier"

Sounds like a T150 state school grad basic misunderstanding of statistics.

Median Ivy salary is about $50k/yr more than median non Ivy, across whole career.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/quote/30/29191582.page

I’d bet a lot of that is due to Ivy grads being able to go work for dads company, or dads friends company upon graduation — would be interesting to see data on Ivy grad salary alongside family net worth …

Also, I’d bet the majority of the full pay UMC families at the 80-90k/yr schools aren’t having to save for retirement (inheritance) or had homes bought outright for them by family trusts etc. so ya, it might look like a handful of 250k families are affording full pay — but we could full pay too with no mortgage or no retirement to save for…
The trust often pays for the grandkids education too—
so the “UMC” kids at these schools are actually from super wealthy families too.

Full pay, have a mortgage, saving for retirement...no inheritance(grew up poor). Same is true of two of my law partners who have kids at ivy-plus schools. Tell yourself what you want but there are plenty of us who knew to save and do not have family wealth to help.
And, looking back at my ivy friends: the most successful in the larger friend group tended to be poor or middle class at the ivy, now doctors, private equity, partners in law firms, one owns a company they started. Our rich friends were more likely to coast a bit in college and not get into med or law school. They bounced around job to job and never quite found their niche. Some may have gotten daddy's money but none that I know and if it has happened they have not revealed it; they live in a smaller house than we do. Though maybe their parents will be paying for grandkids' college.

I think what you say used to be true re jobs. But not so much anymore. The wealth gap is quite a bit larger than it used to be, plus students used to be able to borrow (reasonably) for an ivy education. That’s no longer the case.

Wealth “gap” isnt holding anyone back given the handful of tech outliers and and fact that all stray have increased substantially. As has standard of living.

What a world we live in where the bottom quartile has air Jordan’s, iPhones, cable or streaming tv, cars, tons of clothes, expensive hair and nails, jewelry, etc.

What’re you trying to say?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do okay (at around $200K HHI until a 50% jump three years ago) but are not RICH.

We planned. Used the Vanguard college calculator and saved $400-$600 per month in the 529 since birth.

Limited vacations. Public school. Not a lot of meals out. DIY home improvements. No family support.

Both children will graduate with no student loans.

That's wonderful, but isn't it crazy that we have created a system where college without loans even for the well to do requires 22 years of significant monthly savings to pay for 4 years of education.

That is why there is a public school system as an alternative. Private education at "Elite" schools is a luxury good, not a basic need.

How many elite schools do you think would agree with you that they are nothing but frivolous luxury brands?

Well the schools wont' agree, but look at the world around you. Look at your job and the companies you have worked for. You are most likely surrounded by people (in your same position, and in the management levels above you, possibly even into the C suites) that attended State University and schools ranked lower than 100. Good chance you have never heard of some of the schools they people attend. Yet they are paid the same as you, might even be your manager or a few levels up. What you accomplish in life is due to what you put into it, not where you attend college. Once you realize that you will be happier and likely "wealthier"

Sounds like a T150 state school grad basic misunderstanding of statistics.

Median Ivy salary is about $50k/yr more than median non Ivy, across whole career.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/quote/30/29191582.page

I’d bet a lot of that is due to Ivy grads being able to go work for dads company, or dads friends company upon graduation — would be interesting to see data on Ivy grad salary alongside family net worth …

Also, I’d bet the majority of the full pay UMC families at the 80-90k/yr schools aren’t having to save for retirement (inheritance) or had homes bought outright for them by family trusts etc. so ya, it might look like a handful of 250k families are affording full pay — but we could full pay too with no mortgage or no retirement to save for…
The trust often pays for the grandkids education too—
so the “UMC” kids at these schools are actually from super wealthy families too.

Full pay, have a mortgage, saving for retirement...no inheritance(grew up poor). Same is true of two of my law partners who have kids at ivy-plus schools. Tell yourself what you want but there are plenty of us who knew to save and do not have family wealth to help.
And, looking back at my ivy friends: the most successful in the larger friend group tended to be poor or middle class at the ivy, now doctors, private equity, partners in law firms, one owns a company they started. Our rich friends were more likely to coast a bit in college and not get into med or law school. They bounced around job to job and never quite found their niche. Some may have gotten daddy's money but none that I know and if it has happened they have not revealed it; they live in a smaller house than we do. Though maybe their parents will be paying for grandkids' college.

I think what you say used to be true re jobs. But not so much anymore. The wealth gap is quite a bit larger than it used to be, plus students used to be able to borrow (reasonably) for an ivy education. That’s no longer the case.

Wealth “gap” isnt holding anyone back given the handful of tech outliers and and fact that all stray have increased substantially. As has standard of living.

What a world we live in where the bottom quartile has air Jordan’s, iPhones, cable or streaming tv, cars, tons of clothes, expensive hair and nails, jewelry, etc.

What’re you trying to say?

Billionaires making wealth aren’t hurting anyone. They are growing the pie. Don’t fixate on wealth gap bc some outliers invented spaceX, ChatGPT, Tesla, open AI from nothing and became wealthy.

Standards of living in the USA are up significantly across all income deciles the last 20, 40, 60+ years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do okay (at around $200K HHI until a 50% jump three years ago) but are not RICH.

We planned. Used the Vanguard college calculator and saved $400-$600 per month in the 529 since birth.

Limited vacations. Public school. Not a lot of meals out. DIY home improvements. No family support.

Both children will graduate with no student loans.

That's wonderful, but isn't it crazy that we have created a system where college without loans even for the well to do requires 22 years of significant monthly savings to pay for 4 years of education.

That is why there is a public school system as an alternative. Private education at "Elite" schools is a luxury good, not a basic need.

How many elite schools do you think would agree with you that they are nothing but frivolous luxury brands?

Well the schools wont' agree, but look at the world around you. Look at your job and the companies you have worked for. You are most likely surrounded by people (in your same position, and in the management levels above you, possibly even into the C suites) that attended State University and schools ranked lower than 100. Good chance you have never heard of some of the schools they people attend. Yet they are paid the same as you, might even be your manager or a few levels up. What you accomplish in life is due to what you put into it, not where you attend college. Once you realize that you will be happier and likely "wealthier"

Sounds like a T150 state school grad basic misunderstanding of statistics.

Median Ivy salary is about $50k/yr more than median non Ivy, across whole career.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/quote/30/29191582.page

I’d bet a lot of that is due to Ivy grads being able to go work for dads company, or dads friends company upon graduation — would be interesting to see data on Ivy grad salary alongside family net worth …

Also, I’d bet the majority of the full pay UMC families at the 80-90k/yr schools aren’t having to save for retirement (inheritance) or had homes bought outright for them by family trusts etc. so ya, it might look like a handful of 250k families are affording full pay — but we could full pay too with no mortgage or no retirement to save for…
The trust often pays for the grandkids education too—
so the “UMC” kids at these schools are actually from super wealthy families too.

Full pay, have a mortgage, saving for retirement...no inheritance(grew up poor). Same is true of two of my law partners who have kids at ivy-plus schools. Tell yourself what you want but there are plenty of us who knew to save and do not have family wealth to help.
And, looking back at my ivy friends: the most successful in the larger friend group tended to be poor or middle class at the ivy, now doctors, private equity, partners in law firms, one owns a company they started. Our rich friends were more likely to coast a bit in college and not get into med or law school. They bounced around job to job and never quite found their niche. Some may have gotten daddy's money but none that I know and if it has happened they have not revealed it; they live in a smaller house than we do. Though maybe their parents will be paying for grandkids' college.

I think what you say used to be true re jobs. But not so much anymore. The wealth gap is quite a bit larger than it used to be, plus students used to be able to borrow (reasonably) for an ivy education. That’s no longer the case.

Wealth “gap” isnt holding anyone back given the handful of tech outliers and and fact that all stray have increased substantially. As has standard of living.

What a world we live in where the bottom quartile has air Jordan’s, iPhones, cable or streaming tv, cars, tons of clothes, expensive hair and nails, jewelry, etc.

What’re you trying to say?

Billionaires making wealth aren’t hurting anyone. They are growing the pie. Don’t fixate on wealth gap bc some outliers invented spaceX, ChatGPT, Tesla, open AI from nothing and became wealthy.

Standards of living in the USA are up significantly across all income deciles the last 20, 40, 60+ years.

What a silly comment. NP, but your health and life outcomes are pretty strongly correlated by your spawn point.

BS on billionaires not hurting anyone- I guess it doesn’t matter when they openly discriminate in their workplace and encourage harassment of black employees, take government subsidies to build their empires and then manipulate our federal government to eliminate those same subsidies once they’re profitable to eliminate competition, or when they’re selling off our data and purposely promoting conspiracy theories and Russian propaganda on their platforms that causes mass disinformation across the nation, or when they are found to purposefully pay women and people of color less and dodging California transparency laws, or when they all send millions into a candidates campaign to receive protections from their monopolistic behavior and irresponsible platform moderation, or when they work together to systemically decrease the pay across an industry, or…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do okay (at around $200K HHI until a 50% jump three years ago) but are not RICH.

We planned. Used the Vanguard college calculator and saved $400-$600 per month in the 529 since birth.

Limited vacations. Public school. Not a lot of meals out. DIY home improvements. No family support.

Both children will graduate with no student loans.

That's wonderful, but isn't it crazy that we have created a system where college without loans even for the well to do requires 22 years of significant monthly savings to pay for 4 years of education.

That is why there is a public school system as an alternative. Private education at "Elite" schools is a luxury good, not a basic need.

How many elite schools do you think would agree with you that they are nothing but frivolous luxury brands?

Well the schools wont' agree, but look at the world around you. Look at your job and the companies you have worked for. You are most likely surrounded by people (in your same position, and in the management levels above you, possibly even into the C suites) that attended State University and schools ranked lower than 100. Good chance you have never heard of some of the schools they people attend. Yet they are paid the same as you, might even be your manager or a few levels up. What you accomplish in life is due to what you put into it, not where you attend college. Once you realize that you will be happier and likely "wealthier"

Sounds like a T150 state school grad basic misunderstanding of statistics.

Median Ivy salary is about $50k/yr more than median non Ivy, across whole career.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/quote/30/29191582.page

I’d bet a lot of that is due to Ivy grads being able to go work for dads company, or dads friends company upon graduation — would be interesting to see data on Ivy grad salary alongside family net worth …

Also, I’d bet the majority of the full pay UMC families at the 80-90k/yr schools aren’t having to save for retirement (inheritance) or had homes bought outright for them by family trusts etc. so ya, it might look like a handful of 250k families are affording full pay — but we could full pay too with no mortgage or no retirement to save for…
The trust often pays for the grandkids education too—
so the “UMC” kids at these schools are actually from super wealthy families too.

Full pay, have a mortgage, saving for retirement...no inheritance(grew up poor). Same is true of two of my law partners who have kids at ivy-plus schools. Tell yourself what you want but there are plenty of us who knew to save and do not have family wealth to help.
And, looking back at my ivy friends: the most successful in the larger friend group tended to be poor or middle class at the ivy, now doctors, private equity, partners in law firms, one owns a company they started. Our rich friends were more likely to coast a bit in college and not get into med or law school. They bounced around job to job and never quite found their niche. Some may have gotten daddy's money but none that I know and if it has happened they have not revealed it; they live in a smaller house than we do. Though maybe their parents will be paying for grandkids' college.

I think what you say used to be true re jobs. But not so much anymore. The wealth gap is quite a bit larger than it used to be, plus students used to be able to borrow (reasonably) for an ivy education. That’s no longer the case.

Wealth “gap” isnt holding anyone back given the handful of tech outliers and and fact that all stray have increased substantially. As has standard of living.

What a world we live in where the bottom quartile has air Jordan’s, iPhones, cable or streaming tv, cars, tons of clothes, expensive hair and nails, jewelry, etc.

What’re you trying to say?

Billionaires making wealth aren’t hurting anyone. They are growing the pie. Don’t fixate on wealth gap bc some outliers invented spaceX, ChatGPT, Tesla, open AI from nothing and became wealthy.

Standards of living in the USA are up significantly across all income deciles the last 20, 40, 60+ years.

What a silly comment. NP, but your health and life outcomes are pretty strongly correlated by your spawn point.

BS on billionaires not hurting anyone- I guess it doesn’t matter when they openly discriminate in their workplace and encourage harassment of black employees, take government subsidies to build their empires and then manipulate our federal government to eliminate those same subsidies once they’re profitable to eliminate competition, or when they’re selling off our data and purposely promoting conspiracy theories and Russian propaganda on their platforms that causes mass disinformation across the nation, or when they are found to purposefully pay women and people of color less and dodging California transparency laws, or when they all send millions into a candidates campaign to receive protections from their monopolistic behavior and irresponsible platform moderation, or when they work together to systemically decrease the pay across an industry, or…

DP.

So what are you going to do?
Just give up?
Redistribute everyone's wealth?
What?

Someone else's wealth is not stopping you from being successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do okay (at around $200K HHI until a 50% jump three years ago) but are not RICH.

We planned. Used the Vanguard college calculator and saved $400-$600 per month in the 529 since birth.

Limited vacations. Public school. Not a lot of meals out. DIY home improvements. No family support.

Both children will graduate with no student loans.

That's wonderful, but isn't it crazy that we have created a system where college without loans even for the well to do requires 22 years of significant monthly savings to pay for 4 years of education.

That is why there is a public school system as an alternative. Private education at "Elite" schools is a luxury good, not a basic need.

How many elite schools do you think would agree with you that they are nothing but frivolous luxury brands?

Well the schools wont' agree, but look at the world around you. Look at your job and the companies you have worked for. You are most likely surrounded by people (in your same position, and in the management levels above you, possibly even into the C suites) that attended State University and schools ranked lower than 100. Good chance you have never heard of some of the schools they people attend. Yet they are paid the same as you, might even be your manager or a few levels up. What you accomplish in life is due to what you put into it, not where you attend college. Once you realize that you will be happier and likely "wealthier"

Sounds like a T150 state school grad basic misunderstanding of statistics.

Median Ivy salary is about $50k/yr more than median non Ivy, across whole career.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/quote/30/29191582.page

I’d bet a lot of that is due to Ivy grads being able to go work for dads company, or dads friends company upon graduation — would be interesting to see data on Ivy grad salary alongside family net worth …

Also, I’d bet the majority of the full pay UMC families at the 80-90k/yr schools aren’t having to save for retirement (inheritance) or had homes bought outright for them by family trusts etc. so ya, it might look like a handful of 250k families are affording full pay — but we could full pay too with no mortgage or no retirement to save for…
The trust often pays for the grandkids education too—
so the “UMC” kids at these schools are actually from super wealthy families too.

Full pay, have a mortgage, saving for retirement...no inheritance(grew up poor). Same is true of two of my law partners who have kids at ivy-plus schools. Tell yourself what you want but there are plenty of us who knew to save and do not have family wealth to help.
And, looking back at my ivy friends: the most successful in the larger friend group tended to be poor or middle class at the ivy, now doctors, private equity, partners in law firms, one owns a company they started. Our rich friends were more likely to coast a bit in college and not get into med or law school. They bounced around job to job and never quite found their niche. Some may have gotten daddy's money but none that I know and if it has happened they have not revealed it; they live in a smaller house than we do. Though maybe their parents will be paying for grandkids' college.

I think what you say used to be true re jobs. But not so much anymore. The wealth gap is quite a bit larger than it used to be, plus students used to be able to borrow (reasonably) for an ivy education. That’s no longer the case.

Wealth “gap” isnt holding anyone back given the handful of tech outliers and and fact that all stray have increased substantially. As has standard of living.

What a world we live in where the bottom quartile has air Jordan’s, iPhones, cable or streaming tv, cars, tons of clothes, expensive hair and nails, jewelry, etc.

What’re you trying to say?

Billionaires making wealth aren’t hurting anyone. They are growing the pie. Don’t fixate on wealth gap bc some outliers invented spaceX, ChatGPT, Tesla, open AI from nothing and became wealthy.

Standards of living in the USA are up significantly across all income deciles the last 20, 40, 60+ years.

What a silly comment. NP, but your health and life outcomes are pretty strongly correlated by your spawn point.

BS on billionaires not hurting anyone- I guess it doesn’t matter when they openly discriminate in their workplace and encourage harassment of black employees, take government subsidies to build their empires and then manipulate our federal government to eliminate those same subsidies once they’re profitable to eliminate competition, or when they’re selling off our data and purposely promoting conspiracy theories and Russian propaganda on their platforms that causes mass disinformation across the nation, or when they are found to purposefully pay women and people of color less and dodging California transparency laws, or when they all send millions into a candidates campaign to receive protections from their monopolistic behavior and irresponsible platform moderation, or when they work together to systemically decrease the pay across an industry, or…

DP.

So what are you going to do?
Just give up?
Redistribute everyone's wealth?
What?

Someone else's wealth is not stopping you from being successful.

TIL no one can critique a system if they themselves can’t literally change our economic structure. I stay knowledgeable, don’t grow apathetic, and vote when I can on taxing them accordingly. I’ve also stood with unions and take the time to engage with my community.

Anyway, thanks for backtracking on the billionaires do nothing wrong. I’ll go work on my congressional race, since I have to personally enact legislation to have a say in issues on our society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember when I was a middle class kid in college being in awe that 60% of my fellow students had no financial aid. I imagined that their parents could just write out checks, but I suppose maybe some did take out loans.

More recently, I was looking at stats for one school (Holy Cross) and I think half of the class came from private schools so I guess it's not surprising that they can afford to pay for private college, too.

Back then (Assuming you attended college in late 80s/early 90s), it was not easy to just take out massive loans for college. Federal loans were about the only thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Harvard: 55% of our undergraduates receive need-based Harvard scholarships.

Are people taking out massive loans or is everyone just actually RICH?

Those at Harvard who don't get Need based scholarships are typically making more than $200-250K/year. So yes, if you make more than $250K, it is not unreasonable to assume that you could/should have saved for college.

THe T50 schools/ones that cost $75-90K+/year typically are filled with kids whose parents make $200K+, at least 40-50% of the student families fall into that at most. It's been that way for decades.

And yes, if you make $250K+, it is reasonable to assume you can save for college. You may not choose to save for $90K costs, but certainly for in-state ($30K now).

250k a year pre tax with a family is not that easy to save $400k per kid. It’s just not. The end result is these families of mid level professionals or civil servants don’t get to go to private college. The poor kids do alongside the hedge fund kids.

Did not say it's "easy to save $400K per kid". The end result is not "you don't get to go to private college". Outside of the T25-30 schools, many of the $75-90K schools offer good merit to great students. My kid (1500/3.98UW/8AP) had merit offers of $30-42K from 3 schools in the 40-65 range.
Had they gone down another tier, they could have gotten much more merit. There are plenty of private schools in the T30-100 that will only cost you $40-50K per year. There are also plenty of states schools that will cost less.

So you can attend state schools, if you cannot find the way to save for $400K.

What makes you feel entitled to be able to attend a school you cannot afford? Do you also walk into a BWM showroom and request they sell you a $75K SUV for only $30K?

And if having your kid attend a T25 school is that important to you, you make sacrifices along the way to save the $400K. (IMO it's not worth it if you have to sacrifice too much---save for $30-40K/year at state school and be done with it, or save less and expect your kid to have a summer job and actually help pay some for college)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do okay (at around $200K HHI until a 50% jump three years ago) but are not RICH.

We planned. Used the Vanguard college calculator and saved $400-$600 per month in the 529 since birth.

Limited vacations. Public school. Not a lot of meals out. DIY home improvements. No family support.

Both children will graduate with no student loans.

That's wonderful, but isn't it crazy that we have created a system where college without loans even for the well to do requires 22 years of significant monthly savings to pay for 4 years of education.

That is why there is a public school system as an alternative. Private education at "Elite" schools is a luxury good, not a basic need.

How many elite schools do you think would agree with you that they are nothing but frivolous luxury brands?

Not agreeing with me doesn't change reality. And, they know exactly what they are because they have no interest in reducing the scarcity of their product. While it might be challenging in some cases all of the "elite" schools could scale up, but they choose not too because Harvard isn't Harvard at the scale of UMich.

Most of the elite schools could NOT scale up because there isn't space to do so. Harvard is a limited campus, no place to build more dorms or classrooms. Harvard isn't the same if you can't live on campus all 4 years (98% do currently). And yes, like you stated, "Harvard isn't Harvard if it's 40K students". Most of your T25 schools are 4-8K undergrads. That is partly why they are what they are. There are tons of benefits to having smaller classes and a smaller freshman class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Harvard: 55% of our undergraduates receive need-based Harvard scholarships.

Are people taking out massive loans or is everyone just actually RICH?

Those at Harvard who don't get Need based scholarships are typically making more than $200-250K/year. So yes, if you make more than $250K, it is not unreasonable to assume that you could/should have saved for college.

THe T50 schools/ones that cost $75-90K+/year typically are filled with kids whose parents make $200K+, at least 40-50% of the student families fall into that at most. It's been that way for decades.

And yes, if you make $250K+, it is reasonable to assume you can save for college. You may not choose to save for $90K costs, but certainly for in-state ($30K now).

250k a year pre tax with a family is not that easy to save $400k per kid. It’s just not. The end result is these families of mid level professionals or civil servants don’t get to go to private college. The poor kids do alongside the hedge fund kids.

Also, I didn't make $250K until 1 year before my kids went to college.

So it's not like we were making $250K for 20 years.

So then what were you making 20 years before? Because you could have taken 50-60% of your "increased salaries over those years" and used them to save for college, instead of increasing your lifestyle. It's a choice. Many people do just that. They go lean for the daycare years, then dump all of that (often $2K+/month) into college savings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Current need based aid models work great under the assumption that you’ve always made a great income. It collapses for families who just recently have high six-figure incomes.

If you just recently increased your salary from $150K to 250K, you could be choosing to put all of that into college and retirement savings. But I'm guessing most people do not do that--they increase their overall current lifestyle. Which is fine, but don't complain you couldn't do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:We do okay (at around $200K HHI until a 50% jump three years ago) but are not RICH.

We planned. Used the Vanguard college calculator and saved $400-$600 per month in the 529 since birth.

Limited vacations. Public school. Not a lot of meals out. DIY home improvements. No family support.

Both children will graduate with no student loans.

That's wonderful, but isn't it crazy that we have created a system where college without loans even for the well to do requires 22 years of significant monthly savings to pay for 4 years of education.

That is why there is a public school system as an alternative. Private education at "Elite" schools is a luxury good, not a basic need.

How many elite schools do you think would agree with you that they are nothing but frivolous luxury brands?

Not agreeing with me doesn't change reality. And, they know exactly what they are because they have no interest in reducing the scarcity of their product. While it might be challenging in some cases all of the "elite" schools could scale up, but they choose not too because Harvard isn't Harvard at the scale of UMich.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you that elite schools are more about the exclusive brand than anything related to education! And I agree that the schools themselves behave as if they understand this. I just doubt any of them would admit it. Part of being a luxury school is obscuring the fact that you’re more a luxury product than a school. Otherwise the virtuous frugal folks on this thread who won’t buy luxury-brand cars or vacations would also decline to buy luxury-brand diplomas.

Nope, those are just people who choose to value education highly and make it a top priority. Whereas you would rather drive your luxury vehicle and go on multiple vacations rather than save for your kid's college. Life is about choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:We do okay (at around $200K HHI until a 50% jump three years ago) but are not RICH.

We planned. Used the Vanguard college calculator and saved $400-$600 per month in the 529 since birth.

Limited vacations. Public school. Not a lot of meals out. DIY home improvements. No family support.

Both children will graduate with no student loans.

That's wonderful, but isn't it crazy that we have created a system where college without loans even for the well to do requires 22 years of significant monthly savings to pay for 4 years of education.

That is why there is a public school system as an alternative. Private education at "Elite" schools is a luxury good, not a basic need.

How many elite schools do you think would agree with you that they are nothing but frivolous luxury brands?

Well the schools wont' agree, but look at the world around you. Look at your job and the companies you have worked for. You are most likely surrounded by people (in your same position, and in the management levels above you, possibly even into the C suites) that attended State University and schools ranked lower than 100. Good chance you have never heard of some of the schools they people attend. Yet they are paid the same as you, might even be your manager or a few levels up. What you accomplish in life is due to what you put into it, not where you attend college. Once you realize that you will be happier and likely "wealthier"

Sounds like a T150 state school grad basic misunderstanding of statistics.

Median Ivy salary is about $50k/yr more than median non Ivy, across whole career.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/quote/30/29191582.page

Now adjust for COLA, and show us the results. I'd argue it's not as much about the Ivy degree as it is Ivy grads tend to end up in larger cities, where salaries are naturally higher. Didn't meet many Ivy graduates when I lived in small town Iowa (or even "big town Iowa" other than in Iowa City as professors) Or compare median Ivy salary to Median salary at T40 State University Honors Program Graduates. You have to compare Apples to Apples

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you think that Harvard was for smart kids? Harvard is and has always been for rich kids

It’s for both. That’s always been the magic mix. But there are far more poor kids competing for seats than rich kids.

Actually, the average "poor kid" isn't even thinking about Harvard or T25 schools. Even the really smart ones. They are just hoping for somewhere (likely nearby so they don't have too much transportation costs) that they can get enough aid/merit to graduate college without too much debt. So they are attending the local State University or nearby private schools known for giving excellent merit and FA. They are not thinking "top 25 or bust".

[Anonymous]

We are in the $400,000 HHI and saved enough in DC’s 529s that they could go almost anywhere. First DC loves the large, southern publics and with good grades, test scores, and ECs has significant merit (enough to bring down to in-state costs). Will have enough left over to go to grad school.
Why choose a higher cost option for undergrad? We have friends who are hooked into the prestige of a T20-50 over a T50-100. Seems like a total waste of money. But, then again, DC was unlikely to get into a T20 and got the merit at his 2nd choice of school T50-100.