If college is so expensive ... why don't more families get need-based aid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Harvard: 55% of our undergraduates receive need-based Harvard scholarships.

Are people taking out massive loans or is everyone just actually RICH?

Some people have to decline because they can't afford HYSP after they get accepted. UMD scoops up some of these folks with free tuition.

Yep! There are a lot of qualified kids at UMD and UVA

For some reason UVA doesn't have many national merits, though. So not as many at the very tip top by raw numbers compared to many large state schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At Harvard: 55% of our undergraduates receive need-based Harvard scholarships.

Are people taking out massive loans or is everyone just actually RICH?

Most people pay half of sticker price or less.

Some intl or legacy dumber kids pay full freight. And smart new kids family that fully funded college already.

[Anonymous]

A lot of intelligent white collar dual income families sock away $20-40k a year for college and retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At Harvard: 55% of our undergraduates receive need-based Harvard scholarships.

Are people taking out massive loans or is everyone just actually RICH?

FYI the steady state college graduate rate in all developed countries asymptotes at 40%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did you think that Harvard was for smart kids? Harvard is and has always been for rich kids

Harvard is a quirky place, asks anyone who went there- athlete, scholarship kid, international student, valedictorian, or legacy kid.

Grad schools there less so- 50% overachiever strivers, 50% legacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do okay (at around $200K HHI until a 50% jump three years ago) but are not RICH.

We planned. Used the Vanguard college calculator and saved $400-$600 per month in the 529 since birth.

Limited vacations. Public school. Not a lot of meals out. DIY home improvements. No family support.

Both children will graduate with no student loans.

That's wonderful, but isn't it crazy that we have created a system where college without loans even for the well to do requires 22 years of significant monthly savings to pay for 4 years of education.

That is why there is a public school system as an alternative. Private education at "Elite" schools is a luxury good, not a basic need.

How many elite schools do you think would agree with you that they are nothing but frivolous luxury brands?

Well the schools wont' agree, but look at the world around you. Look at your job and the companies you have worked for. You are most likely surrounded by people (in your same position, and in the management levels above you, possibly even into the C suites) that attended State University and schools ranked lower than 100. Good chance you have never heard of some of the schools they people attend. Yet they are paid the same as you, might even be your manager or a few levels up. What you accomplish in life is due to what you put into it, not where you attend college. Once you realize that you will be happier and likely "wealthier"

Sounds like a T150 state school grad basic misunderstanding of statistics.

Median Ivy salary is about $50k/yr more than median non Ivy, across whole career.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/quote/30/29191582.page

I’d bet a lot of that is due to Ivy grads being able to go work for dads company, or dads friends company upon graduation — would be interesting to see data on Ivy grad salary alongside family net worth …

Also, I’d bet the majority of the full pay UMC families at the 80-90k/yr schools aren’t having to save for retirement (inheritance) or had homes bought outright for them by family trusts etc. so ya, it might look like a handful of 250k families are affording full pay — but we could full pay too with no mortgage or no retirement to save for…
The trust often pays for the grandkids education too—
so the “UMC” kids at these schools are actually from super wealthy families too.

Full pay, have a mortgage, saving for retirement...no inheritance(grew up poor). Same is true of two of my law partners who have kids at ivy-plus schools. Tell yourself what you want but there are plenty of us who knew to save and do not have family wealth to help.
And, looking back at my ivy friends: the most successful in the larger friend group tended to be poor or middle class at the ivy, now doctors, private equity, partners in law firms, one owns a company they started. Our rich friends were more likely to coast a bit in college and not get into med or law school. They bounced around job to job and never quite found their niche. Some may have gotten daddy's money but none that I know and if it has happened they have not revealed it; they live in a smaller house than we do. Though maybe their parents will be paying for grandkids' college.

I think what you say used to be true re jobs. But not so much anymore. The wealth gap is quite a bit larger than it used to be, plus students used to be able to borrow (reasonably) for an ivy education. That’s no longer the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have always had two working parents and had a household income on $350,000 when our kids started college. We are full pay. And not whining— it’s a nice income. Although a SFH house in Fairfax County in a decent school district (decent— not the best) is now $1 million. So, expenses add up fast here.

And I agree— you should start saving for college at birth. And if you and your spouse make $350,000 at birth and have no extra expenses or decrease in income for 18 years, you should have a 529 funded for Harvard. But usually, that’s not how life happens.

We had about $250k per kid in their 529s when they hit college. Enough for a Midwestern LAC with merit and WM, both with no loans. WM kid will have about $50k left over for grad school.

Why not the $400k they would need to full pay? Because people looking at a $350k income seem to assume we had an $350,000 income and $0 in extra expenses from the day Kid 1 was born until we filed the FAFSA 18 years later. And that was not remotely true.

To start with, we had kids relatively young, and we didn’t always make $350,000. It was closer to/ slightly below $200k the kids were born. Now subtract $1500-1800 a kid a month for childcare (at the time) for the first 5 years.

Just as we were getting ready to stop needing FT childcare for kid1, we bought into a decent school district just before (like 3 months before) the housing bubble burst, the recession happened- and we went from having plenty of equity to being underwater on our mortgage. It took us 10 years to regain our housing value and get back to square 1. At the same time, one parent lost their job. And we couldn’t move for a job, because underwater on the mortgage. That parent found a new job relatively fast, but took a big pay cut. Lots of people hit by the recession now have kids entering or in college.


A year later, the other parent had a huge health event and was out of work for 18 months, most of the time in treatment. And the rest of the time was was too sick/ occupied with treatment to reliably care for the kids and save that money.

Meanwhile, even when school started, the childcare expenses didn’t just go away. From K-6, we were paying for before and after care so that we could both work. Not cheap for two kids, even if it’s just SACC. And summer care was just ungodly expensive. Plus, care on all the random days school was closed for TWDs, 1/2 day Mondays (still a thing in FCPS at the time), snow days, rain days, cold days. And FCPS just hates to operate for a full uninterrupted week days.

So, our salaries were not at $350k for most of the years we saved. And many years, we saved very little because childcare was bleeding us dry— and high quality childcare was not a place we were willing to scrimp. And those were also the years where compounded interest could have worked its magic.

That’s reality for many two income families. Add on for us the recession happened and we bought at a house at the worst possible time, that we we had a job loss and pay cut and had one parent who was very sick (but thankfully now has a clean bill of health), but was out of work for a significant period of time.

So when people say— just start saving when the baby is born, I agree on principle. But people (and Harvard) make a lot of assumptions about a family’s ability to save when their kid was 4 based on what the family finances look like when the kid is 18. And FAFSA doesn’t really capture childcare expenses, serious illness in the family, recession eating away $200,000 in equity overnight, job loss, etc— especially when those things happened. when a kid is in ES or younger. But those things prevent savings at a point when savings can be most valuable if you invest right because of compounded interest.

I’m glad we both worked, especially since one of us was unemployed for a period of time and one of us was too sick to work for a longer period of time. When we only had one adult who could work, I was grateful we had two adults with active careers that carried benefits. But realistically, my salary covered childcare for several years and that’s about it. We sucked it up to keep me in the workforce. But financially, we might have been in a better position for college if I had just never worked at all, rather than working to pay for childcare, and then ultimately having that income counted against us on the FAFSA.

Same situation here. . .I have the same wonderings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Harvard: 55% of our undergraduates receive need-based Harvard scholarships.

Are people taking out massive loans or is everyone just actually RICH?

Some people have to decline because they can't afford HYSP after they get accepted. UMD scoops up some of these folks with free tuition.

Yep! There are a lot of qualified kids at UMD and UVA

For some reason UVA doesn't have many national merits, though. So not as many at the very tip top by raw numbers compared to many large state schools.

you do realize that a 207 qualifies for NMSF in many states yet a 220 (3-4 missed questions) will not qualify in Virgnia(and other top states packed with smart kids, like NJ, MA) many years? That is like a 1350 qualifying and a 1560 not in others. If UVA and all schools tracked kids PSAT scores above 207, ie the same national cutoff, 2/3 of UVA kids would have it and UVA would have more than almost all state schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Harvard: 55% of our undergraduates receive need-based Harvard scholarships.

Are people taking out massive loans or is everyone just actually RICH?

Some people have to decline because they can't afford HYSP after they get accepted. UMD scoops up some of these folks with free tuition.

Yep! There are a lot of qualified kids at UMD and UVA

For some reason UVA doesn't have many national merits, though. So not as many at the very tip top by raw numbers compared to many large state schools.

you do realize that a 207 qualifies for NMSF in many states yet a 220 (3-4 missed questions) will not qualify in Virgnia(and other top states packed with smart kids, like NJ, MA) many years? That is like a 1350 qualifying and a 1560 not in others. If UVA and all schools tracked kids PSAT scores above 207, ie the same national cutoff, 2/3 of UVA kids would have it and UVA would have more than almost all state schools.

Actually 210 is the lowest qualifying NMF score for 2026 and only 5 states have a 210 cut off. 13 states have a cut off at 220 or higher.

Class of 2025:
Virginia’s cutoff was 222 and there were 392 semifinalists in the state of VA.
CA also had a 222 cutoff and had 2,103 NMSF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Harvard: 55% of our undergraduates receive need-based Harvard scholarships.

Are people taking out massive loans or is everyone just actually RICH?

Most people pay half of sticker price or less.

Some intl or legacy dumber kids pay full freight. And smart new kids family that fully funded college already.

Literally 45 pct pay full freight. Basically half.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Harvard: 55% of our undergraduates receive need-based Harvard scholarships.

Are people taking out massive loans or is everyone just actually RICH?

Some people have to decline because they can't afford HYSP after they get accepted. UMD scoops up some of these folks with free tuition.

Yep! There are a lot of qualified kids at UMD and UVA

For some reason UVA doesn't have many national merits, though. So not as many at the very tip top by raw numbers compared to many large state schools.

you do realize that a 207 qualifies for NMSF in many states yet a 220 (3-4 missed questions) will not qualify in Virgnia(and other top states packed with smart kids, like NJ, MA) many years? That is like a 1350 qualifying and a 1560 not in others. If UVA and all schools tracked kids PSAT scores above 207, ie the same national cutoff, 2/3 of UVA kids would have it and UVA would have more than almost all state schools.

Not true. Semi finalists by state (starting at VA):
Virginia: 407
Massachusetts: 352
Indiana: 343
Missouri: 330
Tennessee: 319
Washington: 317
Wisconsin: 314
Maryland: 304
Arizona: 289
Minnesota: 288
Colorado: 250
Alabama: 223
Louisiana: 219
Kentucky: 208
South Carolina: 207
Oklahoma: 191
Connecticut: 186
Oregon: 177
etc.

Here are public colleges with fewer national merit semi finalists than Virginia (in their respective states) that enroll more scholars than UVA.

Alabama: 258
Arizona State: 136
Purdue: 116
Maryland: 123
Oklahoma: 73
Minnesota: 68

UVA: 35

https://www.nationalmerit.org/s/1758/images/gid2/editor_documents/annual_report.pdf?gid=2&pgid=61&sessionid=1a717a62-3bdb-46a5-b1c5-a30ebb3991ef&cc=1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We do okay (at around $200K HHI until a 50% jump three years ago) but are not RICH.

We planned. Used the Vanguard college calculator and saved $400-$600 per month in the 529 since birth.

Limited vacations. Public school. Not a lot of meals out. DIY home improvements. No family support.

Both children will graduate with no student loans.

But did you and your spouse have your own student loans? Me and my husband financed our own undergraduate and graduate education. One first gen student and one with limited living expenses support. We paid $1000 a month in student loans which didn’t allow saving for college. We make less money and do all those other things but where are we supposed to save beyond that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do okay (at around $200K HHI until a 50% jump three years ago) but are not RICH.

We planned. Used the Vanguard college calculator and saved $400-$600 per month in the 529 since birth.

Limited vacations. Public school. Not a lot of meals out. DIY home improvements. No family support.

Both children will graduate with no student loans.

That's wonderful, but isn't it crazy that we have created a system where college without loans even for the well to do requires 22 years of significant monthly savings to pay for 4 years of education.

That is why there is a public school system as an alternative. Private education at "Elite" schools is a luxury good, not a basic need.

How many elite schools do you think would agree with you that they are nothing but frivolous luxury brands?

Well the schools wont' agree, but look at the world around you. Look at your job and the companies you have worked for. You are most likely surrounded by people (in your same position, and in the management levels above you, possibly even into the C suites) that attended State University and schools ranked lower than 100. Good chance you have never heard of some of the schools they people attend. Yet they are paid the same as you, might even be your manager or a few levels up. What you accomplish in life is due to what you put into it, not where you attend college. Once you realize that you will be happier and likely "wealthier"

Sounds like a T150 state school grad basic misunderstanding of statistics.

Median Ivy salary is about $50k/yr more than median non Ivy, across whole career.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/quote/30/29191582.page

I’d bet a lot of that is due to Ivy grads being able to go work for dads company, or dads friends company upon graduation — would be interesting to see data on Ivy grad salary alongside family net worth …

Also, I’d bet the majority of the full pay UMC families at the 80-90k/yr schools aren’t having to save for retirement (inheritance) or had homes bought outright for them by family trusts etc. so ya, it might look like a handful of 250k families are affording full pay — but we could full pay too with no mortgage or no retirement to save for…
The trust often pays for the grandkids education too—
so the “UMC” kids at these schools are actually from super wealthy families too.

Full pay, have a mortgage, saving for retirement...no inheritance(grew up poor). Same is true of two of my law partners who have kids at ivy-plus schools. Tell yourself what you want but there are plenty of us who knew to save and do not have family wealth to help.
And, looking back at my ivy friends: the most successful in the larger friend group tended to be poor or middle class at the ivy, now doctors, private equity, partners in law firms, one owns a company they started. Our rich friends were more likely to coast a bit in college and not get into med or law school. They bounced around job to job and never quite found their niche. Some may have gotten daddy's money but none that I know and if it has happened they have not revealed it; they live in a smaller house than we do. Though maybe their parents will be paying for grandkids' college.

I think what you say used to be true re jobs. But not so much anymore. The wealth gap is quite a bit larger than it used to be, plus students used to be able to borrow (reasonably) for an ivy education. That’s no longer the case.

Sorry but no. There are super bright, charismatic merit scholar students getting top jobs and grad schools and making bank. Many are female too.

Drop the tropes about everyone working for daddy’s company or actually being dumb. It will hold YOU back or already has.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do okay (at around $200K HHI until a 50% jump three years ago) but are not RICH.

We planned. Used the Vanguard college calculator and saved $400-$600 per month in the 529 since birth.

Limited vacations. Public school. Not a lot of meals out. DIY home improvements. No family support.

Both children will graduate with no student loans.

That's wonderful, but isn't it crazy that we have created a system where college without loans even for the well to do requires 22 years of significant monthly savings to pay for 4 years of education.

That is why there is a public school system as an alternative. Private education at "Elite" schools is a luxury good, not a basic need.

How many elite schools do you think would agree with you that they are nothing but frivolous luxury brands?

Well the schools wont' agree, but look at the world around you. Look at your job and the companies you have worked for. You are most likely surrounded by people (in your same position, and in the management levels above you, possibly even into the C suites) that attended State University and schools ranked lower than 100. Good chance you have never heard of some of the schools they people attend. Yet they are paid the same as you, might even be your manager or a few levels up. What you accomplish in life is due to what you put into it, not where you attend college. Once you realize that you will be happier and likely "wealthier"

Sounds like a T150 state school grad basic misunderstanding of statistics.

Median Ivy salary is about $50k/yr more than median non Ivy, across whole career.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/quote/30/29191582.page

I’d bet a lot of that is due to Ivy grads being able to go work for dads company, or dads friends company upon graduation — would be interesting to see data on Ivy grad salary alongside family net worth …

Also, I’d bet the majority of the full pay UMC families at the 80-90k/yr schools aren’t having to save for retirement (inheritance) or had homes bought outright for them by family trusts etc. so ya, it might look like a handful of 250k families are affording full pay — but we could full pay too with no mortgage or no retirement to save for…
The trust often pays for the grandkids education too—
so the “UMC” kids at these schools are actually from super wealthy families too.

Full pay, have a mortgage, saving for retirement...no inheritance(grew up poor). Same is true of two of my law partners who have kids at ivy-plus schools. Tell yourself what you want but there are plenty of us who knew to save and do not have family wealth to help.
And, looking back at my ivy friends: the most successful in the larger friend group tended to be poor or middle class at the ivy, now doctors, private equity, partners in law firms, one owns a company they started. Our rich friends were more likely to coast a bit in college and not get into med or law school. They bounced around job to job and never quite found their niche. Some may have gotten daddy's money but none that I know and if it has happened they have not revealed it; they live in a smaller house than we do. Though maybe their parents will be paying for grandkids' college.

I think what you say used to be true re jobs. But not so much anymore. The wealth gap is quite a bit larger than it used to be, plus students used to be able to borrow (reasonably) for an ivy education. That’s no longer the case.

Wealth “gap” isnt holding anyone back given the handful of tech outliers and and fact that all stray have increased substantially. As has standard of living.

What a world we live in where the bottom quartile has air Jordan’s, iPhones, cable or streaming tv, cars, tons of clothes, expensive hair and nails, jewelry, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Harvard: 55% of our undergraduates receive need-based Harvard scholarships.

Are people taking out massive loans or is everyone just actually RICH?

Some people have to decline because they can't afford HYSP after they get accepted. UMD scoops up some of these folks with free tuition.

Yep! There are a lot of qualified kids at UMD and UVA

For some reason UVA doesn't have many national merits, though. So not as many at the very tip top by raw numbers compared to many large state schools.

you do realize that a 207 qualifies for NMSF in many states yet a 220 (3-4 missed questions) will not qualify in Virgnia(and other top states packed with smart kids, like NJ, MA) many years? That is like a 1350 qualifying and a 1560 not in others. If UVA and all schools tracked kids PSAT scores above 207, ie the same national cutoff, 2/3 of UVA kids would have it and UVA would have more than almost all state schools.

Not true. Semi finalists by state (starting at VA):
Virginia: 407
Massachusetts: 352
Indiana: 343
Missouri: 330
Tennessee: 319
Washington: 317
Wisconsin: 314
Maryland: 304
Arizona: 289
Minnesota: 288
Colorado: 250
Alabama: 223
Louisiana: 219
Kentucky: 208
South Carolina: 207
Oklahoma: 191
Connecticut: 186
Oregon: 177
etc.

Here are public colleges with fewer national merit semi finalists than Virginia (in their respective states) that enroll more scholars than UVA.

Alabama: 258
Arizona State: 136
Purdue: 116
Maryland: 123
Oklahoma: 73
Minnesota: 68

UVA: 35

https://www.nationalmerit.org/s/1758/images/gid2/editor_documents/annual_report.pdf?gid=2&pgid=61&sessionid=1a717a62-3bdb-46a5-b1c5-a30ebb3991ef&cc=1

Is this all based on a PSAT score from 9th or 10th grade?

Or based also on actual SAT scores?