Is binding ED the next shoe to drop?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've heard speculation that ED could be challenged on an anti trust basis. I don't know how cogent that argument is and I didn't see it being accepted by the current Court. Unless there's some movement on that, this thread is a lot of hot air. Things do not simply become fairer over time as if by magic.

I hope so; it's an advantage that UMC families refuse to admit is a thumb on the scales for their precious children.

What’s the definition of UMC here? It’s a thumb on the scale for the top 1% who are beyond UMC by most definitions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s she unfair but benefits the wealthy so won’t go anywhere.

You do realize the wealthy, full-pay families are what provide so many benefits to the students who can’t afford full-pay, correct?

Can you cite the benefits you are referring to? Please provide specific examples.

Would you rather have your poor kid go to a school with all other poor kids, or one with many rich kids? Say stats are the same for the sake of argument, but be honest with yourself.

For most people, the presence of rich kids is itself a benefit.

Why would the poor kid want to go to school with rich kids?

Connections. Your roommate or friend's parents are rich and well connected and they help you find internships and jobs. If you remain friends with them after college, you have a group now that has many more connections than the average kid or poor kid where 90% of their community never went to college.

Rich kids are in a clique with other rich kids. The idea that they’ll befriend a poor kid is laughable.

It’s actually the middle class striver parents not the poor parents who think their kid will “make connections” with rich kids at a prestige school. They are deluded. Their kid will not be in the rich kid clique either.

My husband went to Harvard. Some of his friend group came from wealthy families, some middle class. I can think of at least three occasions where one member of the group help the other land a job. Not entry level jobs either, mid career C level jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s she unfair but benefits the wealthy so won’t go anywhere.

You do realize the wealthy, full-pay families are what provide so many benefits to the students who can’t afford full-pay, correct?

Can you cite the benefits you are referring to? Please provide specific examples.

Would you rather have your poor kid go to a school with all other poor kids, or one with many rich kids? Say stats are the same for the sake of argument, but be honest with yourself.

For most people, the presence of rich kids is itself a benefit.

Why would the poor kid want to go to school with rich kids?

Connections. Your roommate or friend's parents are rich and well connected and they help you find internships and jobs. If you remain friends with them after college, you have a group now that has many more connections than the average kid or poor kid where 90% of their community never went to college.

Rich kids are in a clique with other rich kids. The idea that they’ll befriend a poor kid is laughable.

It’s actually the middle class striver parents not the poor parents who think their kid will “make connections” with rich kids at a prestige school. They are deluded. Their kid will not be in the rich kid clique either.

My husband went to Harvard. Some of his friend group came from wealthy families, some middle class. I can think of at least three occasions where one member of the group help the other land a job. Not entry level jobs either, mid career C level jobs.

Harvard doesn’t have binding ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you rather have your poor kid go to a school with all other poor kids, or one with many rich kids? Say stats are the same for the sake of argument, but be honest with yourself.

For most people, the presence of rich kids is itself a benefit.

Why would the poor kid want to go to school with rich kids?

Because that's one of the ways that upward social mobility happens. In addition to a great education, lower income kids get exposure to social networks and access to relationships and social resources they might not have otherwise. The smart ones leverage that access and those networks to climb.

Do you have a cite for this claim?

No. I'm offering it as a self-evident truth.

lol “self-evident truth”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s she unfair but benefits the wealthy so won’t go anywhere.

You do realize the wealthy, full-pay families are what provide so many benefits to the students who can’t afford full-pay, correct?

Can you cite the benefits you are referring to? Please provide specific examples.

Would you rather have your poor kid go to a school with all other poor kids, or one with many rich kids? Say stats are the same for the sake of argument, but be honest with yourself.

For most people, the presence of rich kids is itself a benefit.

Why would the poor kid want to go to school with rich kids?

Connections. Your roommate or friend's parents are rich and well connected and they help you find internships and jobs. If you remain friends with them after college, you have a group now that has many more connections than the average kid or poor kid where 90% of their community never went to college.

Show us a peer-reviewed study that demonstrates this actually happens. Just one.

Different poster, I am on the parent’s council at a top but not T10 private. This is a mechanism to increase parent giving that is incredibly successful and leads to the funding of projects that benefit all undergrads. Further, I know for a fact that parents on the council make sure that their companies recruit from the school, again benefits all undergrads.

It might happen occasionally. We need evidence that it’s a significant occurrence and can be replicated at various top colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s she unfair but benefits the wealthy so won’t go anywhere.

You do realize the wealthy, full-pay families are what provide so many benefits to the students who can’t afford full-pay, correct?

Can you cite the benefits you are referring to? Please provide specific examples.

Would you rather have your poor kid go to a school with all other poor kids, or one with many rich kids? Say stats are the same for the sake of argument, but be honest with yourself.

For most people, the presence of rich kids is itself a benefit.

Why would the poor kid want to go to school with rich kids?

Connections. Your roommate or friend's parents are rich and well connected and they help you find internships and jobs. If you remain friends with them after college, you have a group now that has many more connections than the average kid or poor kid where 90% of their community never went to college.

Show us a peer-reviewed study that demonstrates this actually happens. Just one.

Different poster, I am on the parent’s council at a top but not T10 private. This is a mechanism to increase parent giving that is incredibly successful and leads to the funding of projects that benefit all undergrads. Further, I know for a fact that parents on the council make sure that their companies recruit from the school, again benefits all undergrads.

It might happen occasionally. We need evidence that it’s a significant occurrence and can be replicated at various top colleges.

Okay no one has a cite so just send your kid to a poor kids school (there are plenty of them) and you'll probably be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s she unfair but benefits the wealthy so won’t go anywhere.

You do realize the wealthy, full-pay families are what provide so many benefits to the students who can’t afford full-pay, correct?

Can you cite the benefits you are referring to? Please provide specific examples.

Would you rather have your poor kid go to a school with all other poor kids, or one with many rich kids? Say stats are the same for the sake of argument, but be honest with yourself.

For most people, the presence of rich kids is itself a benefit.

Why would the poor kid want to go to school with rich kids?

Connections. Your roommate or friend's parents are rich and well connected and they help you find internships and jobs. If you remain friends with them after college, you have a group now that has many more connections than the average kid or poor kid where 90% of their community never went to college.

Show us a peer-reviewed study that demonstrates this actually happens. Just one.

Different poster, I am on the parent’s council at a top but not T10 private. This is a mechanism to increase parent giving that is incredibly successful and leads to the funding of projects that benefit all undergrads. Further, I know for a fact that parents on the council make sure that their companies recruit from the school, again benefits all undergrads.

It might happen occasionally. We need evidence that it’s a significant occurrence and can be replicated at various top colleges.

Okay no one has a cite so just send your kid to a poor kids school (there are plenty of them) and you'll probably be fine.

When you say things like “poor kids school” you weaken your argument even more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s she unfair but benefits the wealthy so won’t go anywhere.

You do realize the wealthy, full-pay families are what provide so many benefits to the students who can’t afford full-pay, correct?

Can you cite the benefits you are referring to? Please provide specific examples.

Would you rather have your poor kid go to a school with all other poor kids, or one with many rich kids? Say stats are the same for the sake of argument, but be honest with yourself.

For most people, the presence of rich kids is itself a benefit.

Why would the poor kid want to go to school with rich kids?

Connections. Your roommate or friend's parents are rich and well connected and they help you find internships and jobs. If you remain friends with them after college, you have a group now that has many more connections than the average kid or poor kid where 90% of their community never went to college.

Show us a peer-reviewed study that demonstrates this actually happens. Just one.

Different poster, I am on the parent’s council at a top but not T10 private. This is a mechanism to increase parent giving that is incredibly successful and leads to the funding of projects that benefit all undergrads. Further, I know for a fact that parents on the council make sure that their companies recruit from the school, again benefits all undergrads.

It might happen occasionally. We need evidence that it’s a significant occurrence and can be replicated at various top colleges.

Okay no one has a cite so just send your kid to a poor kids school (there are plenty of them) and you'll probably be fine.

What on earth is a poor kids school? Maybe Princeton? More than 60 percent are on FA. Same with Stanford and MIT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s she unfair but benefits the wealthy so won’t go anywhere.

You do realize the wealthy, full-pay families are what provide so many benefits to the students who can’t afford full-pay, correct?

Can you cite the benefits you are referring to? Please provide specific examples.

Would you rather have your poor kid go to a school with all other poor kids, or one with many rich kids? Say stats are the same for the sake of argument, but be honest with yourself.

For most people, the presence of rich kids is itself a benefit.

Why would the poor kid want to go to school with rich kids?

Connections. Your roommate or friend's parents are rich and well connected and they help you find internships and jobs. If you remain friends with them after college, you have a group now that has many more connections than the average kid or poor kid where 90% of their community never went to college.

Rich kids are in a clique with other rich kids. The idea that they’ll befriend a poor kid is laughable.

It’s actually the middle class striver parents not the poor parents who think their kid will “make connections” with rich kids at a prestige school. They are deluded. Their kid will not be in the rich kid clique either.

My husband went to Harvard. Some of his friend group came from wealthy families, some middle class. I can think of at least three occasions where one member of the group help the other land a job. Not entry level jobs either, mid career C level jobs.

Exactly!

Went to a T10 university. At a time when 60%+ of the students received no FA at all (merit was a thing for maybe 10 kids and the athletes). This school now is a 90K+ school.

I had some rich/wealthy friends. I'm still friends with them. Same situation---while I have not needed to use those connections, I know friends in our group who have gotten jobs that way. And I know one who got a summer internship in college via a rich friends parental connection---and that led to their first job post undergrad.

Don't need studies to show it happens. Lived it
Now, that is not the reason to attend a school. But for LMC/Poor kids, they are the group that benefits the most form being at an elite school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s she unfair but benefits the wealthy so won’t go anywhere.

You do realize the wealthy, full-pay families are what provide so many benefits to the students who can’t afford full-pay, correct?

Can you cite the benefits you are referring to? Please provide specific examples.

Would you rather have your poor kid go to a school with all other poor kids, or one with many rich kids? Say stats are the same for the sake of argument, but be honest with yourself.

For most people, the presence of rich kids is itself a benefit.

Why would the poor kid want to go to school with rich kids?

Connections. Your roommate or friend's parents are rich and well connected and they help you find internships and jobs. If you remain friends with them after college, you have a group now that has many more connections than the average kid or poor kid where 90% of their community never went to college.

Rich kids are in a clique with other rich kids. The idea that they’ll befriend a poor kid is laughable.

It’s actually the middle class striver parents not the poor parents who think their kid will “make connections” with rich kids at a prestige school. They are deluded. Their kid will not be in the rich kid clique either.

My husband went to Harvard. Some of his friend group came from wealthy families, some middle class. I can think of at least three occasions where one member of the group help the other land a job. Not entry level jobs either, mid career C level jobs.

Exactly!

Went to a T10 university. At a time when 60%+ of the students received no FA at all (merit was a thing for maybe 10 kids and the athletes). This school now is a 90K+ school.

I had some rich/wealthy friends. I'm still friends with them. Same situation---while I have not needed to use those connections, I know friends in our group who have gotten jobs that way. And I know one who got a summer internship in college via a rich friends parental connection---and that led to their first job post undergrad.

Don't need studies to show it happens. Lived it
Now, that is not the reason to attend a school. But for LMC/Poor kids, they are the group that benefits the most form being at an elite school.

Extraordinarily few poor kids make it to a T10.

"Some Colleges Have More Students From the Top 1 Percent Than the Bottom 60. Find yours"

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/18/upshot/some-colleges-have-more-students-from-the-top-1-percent-than-the-bottom-60.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s she unfair but benefits the wealthy so won’t go anywhere.

You do realize the wealthy, full-pay families are what provide so many benefits to the students who can’t afford full-pay, correct?

Can you cite the benefits you are referring to? Please provide specific examples.

Would you rather have your poor kid go to a school with all other poor kids, or one with many rich kids? Say stats are the same for the sake of argument, but be honest with yourself.

For most people, the presence of rich kids is itself a benefit.

Why would the poor kid want to go to school with rich kids?

Connections. Your roommate or friend's parents are rich and well connected and they help you find internships and jobs. If you remain friends with them after college, you have a group now that has many more connections than the average kid or poor kid where 90% of their community never went to college.

Show us a peer-reviewed study that demonstrates this actually happens. Just one.

Different poster, I am on the parent’s council at a top but not T10 private. This is a mechanism to increase parent giving that is incredibly successful and leads to the funding of projects that benefit all undergrads. Further, I know for a fact that parents on the council make sure that their companies recruit from the school, again benefits all undergrads.

It might happen occasionally. We need evidence that it’s a significant occurrence and can be replicated at various top colleges.

Okay no one has a cite so just send your kid to a poor kids school (there are plenty of them) and you'll probably be fine.

What on earth is a poor kids school? Maybe Princeton? More than 60 percent are on FA. Same with Stanford and MIT.

mm

I was thinking more like _____ State College. Many more poor kids at a school like that. If PP doesn't see being around rich kids as a benefit they can save a lot of time and hassle by going somewhere like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s she unfair but benefits the wealthy so won’t go anywhere.

You do realize the wealthy, full-pay families are what provide so many benefits to the students who can’t afford full-pay, correct?

Can you cite the benefits you are referring to? Please provide specific examples.

Would you rather have your poor kid go to a school with all other poor kids, or one with many rich kids? Say stats are the same for the sake of argument, but be honest with yourself.

For most people, the presence of rich kids is itself a benefit.

Why would the poor kid want to go to school with rich kids?

Connections. Your roommate or friend's parents are rich and well connected and they help you find internships and jobs. If you remain friends with them after college, you have a group now that has many more connections than the average kid or poor kid where 90% of their community never went to college.

Show us a peer-reviewed study that demonstrates this actually happens. Just one.

Different poster, I am on the parent’s council at a top but not T10 private. This is a mechanism to increase parent giving that is incredibly successful and leads to the funding of projects that benefit all undergrads. Further, I know for a fact that parents on the council make sure that their companies recruit from the school, again benefits all undergrads.

It might happen occasionally. We need evidence that it’s a significant occurrence and can be replicated at various top colleges.

Okay no one has a cite so just send your kid to a poor kids school (there are plenty of them) and you'll probably be fine.

What on earth is a poor kids school? Maybe Princeton? More than 60 percent are on FA. Same with Stanford and MIT.

mm

I was thinking more like _____ State College. Many more poor kids at a school like that. If PP doesn't see being around rich kids as a benefit they can save a lot of time and hassle by going somewhere like that.

More vague anecdotes about “being around rich kids” as a benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s she unfair but benefits the wealthy so won’t go anywhere.

You do realize the wealthy, full-pay families are what provide so many benefits to the students who can’t afford full-pay, correct?

Can you cite the benefits you are referring to? Please provide specific examples.

Would you rather have your poor kid go to a school with all other poor kids, or one with many rich kids? Say stats are the same for the sake of argument, but be honest with yourself.

For most people, the presence of rich kids is itself a benefit.

Why would the poor kid want to go to school with rich kids?

Connections. Your roommate or friend's parents are rich and well connected and they help you find internships and jobs. If you remain friends with them after college, you have a group now that has many more connections than the average kid or poor kid where 90% of their community never went to college.

Show us a peer-reviewed study that demonstrates this actually happens. Just one.

Different poster, I am on the parent’s council at a top but not T10 private. This is a mechanism to increase parent giving that is incredibly successful and leads to the funding of projects that benefit all undergrads. Further, I know for a fact that parents on the council make sure that their companies recruit from the school, again benefits all undergrads.

It might happen occasionally. We need evidence that it’s a significant occurrence and can be replicated at various top colleges.

Okay no one has a cite so just send your kid to a poor kids school (there are plenty of them) and you'll probably be fine.

What on earth is a poor kids school? Maybe Princeton? More than 60 percent are on FA. Same with Stanford and MIT.

mm

I was thinking more like _____ State College. Many more poor kids at a school like that. If PP doesn't see being around rich kids as a benefit they can save a lot of time and hassle by going somewhere like that.

More vague anecdotes about “being around rich kids” as a benefit.

It wasn't an anecdote. If you don't want to be around rich kids it's REALLY easy to avoid them. Most people, in selecting colleges, real estate, and other such goods, show a strong revealed preference for being being as close to rich people as they can. That doesn't mean they're right to, but it should give you pause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've heard speculation that ED could be challenged on an anti trust basis. I don't know how cogent that argument is and I didn't see it being accepted by the current Court. Unless there's some movement on that, this thread is a lot of hot air. Things do not simply become fairer over time as if by magic.

I hope so; it's an advantage that UMC families refuse to admit is a thumb on the scales for their precious children.

What’s the definition of UMC here? It’s a thumb on the scale for the top 1% who are beyond UMC by most definitions.

The top 9.9%
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/

"If your total net worth ranges somewhere between $1.2 and $20 million, you are in the top 9.9 percent of the wealth distribution. If your household income is around $200,000 or over, you are in the top 9.9 percent."

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/learning-innovation/rising-inequality-fault-%E2%80%98-99-percent%E2%80%99

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s she unfair but benefits the wealthy so won’t go anywhere.

You do realize the wealthy, full-pay families are what provide so many benefits to the students who can’t afford full-pay, correct?

Can you cite the benefits you are referring to? Please provide specific examples.

Would you rather have your poor kid go to a school with all other poor kids, or one with many rich kids? Say stats are the same for the sake of argument, but be honest with yourself.

For most people, the presence of rich kids is itself a benefit.

Why would the poor kid want to go to school with rich kids?

Connections. Your roommate or friend's parents are rich and well connected and they help you find internships and jobs. If you remain friends with them after college, you have a group now that has many more connections than the average kid or poor kid where 90% of their community never went to college.

Show us a peer-reviewed study that demonstrates this actually happens. Just one.

Different poster, I am on the parent’s council at a top but not T10 private. This is a mechanism to increase parent giving that is incredibly successful and leads to the funding of projects that benefit all undergrads. Further, I know for a fact that parents on the council make sure that their companies recruit from the school, again benefits all undergrads.

It might happen occasionally. We need evidence that it’s a significant occurrence and can be replicated at various top colleges.

Okay no one has a cite so just send your kid to a poor kids school (there are plenty of them) and you'll probably be fine.

What on earth is a poor kids school? Maybe Princeton? More than 60 percent are on FA. Same with Stanford and MIT.

mm

I was thinking more like _____ State College. Many more poor kids at a school like that. If PP doesn't see being around rich kids as a benefit they can save a lot of time and hassle by going somewhere like that.

More vague anecdotes about “being around rich kids” as a benefit.

It wasn't an anecdote. If you don't want to be around rich kids it's REALLY easy to avoid them. Most people, in selecting colleges, real estate, and other such goods, show a strong revealed preference for being being as close to rich people as they can. That doesn't mean they're right to, but it should give you pause.

What a tiresome way to live