Italy, France, Germany, and Spain outlaw surrogacy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a law that de facto makes it impossible for gay couples to have children. It’s not progressive. In Italy it was advanced by the far right government.

It doesn't prevent them from adopting. You can be a parent.

Gay couples cannot adopt in Italy.

Oh, well. They should not be allowed to become parents at the expense of women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a law that de facto makes it impossible for gay couples to have children. It’s not progressive. In Italy it was advanced by the far right government.

It doesn't prevent them from adopting. You can be a parent.

Only couples who have been married for 3 (or 4?) years can adopt. Gay marriage is illegal in Italy. Therefore, they cannot be parents.

So your solution is to exploit women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europe is stronger on human rights and this practice is exploitative. This law is preventing people from renting the bodies of poor women in third world countries.

+1 banning surrogacy is the right thing to do. Honestly, I’m amazed that the US allows it. But in this country it’s true that making money is more important than protecting human rights, particularly a woman.

Why? The women who carry these babies to term are providing an incredibly valuable service to couples who otherwise wouldn’t be able to have children. If the surrogate is an adult who willingly agreed and was paid the amount that was agreed upon, then how is she being exploited?

Money is the reason they agree. Poor women. Have you ever heard of a woman with a high salary job or who is married to a high earning husband agree to get a surrogate? No. Because it is only poor women and, frankly, surrogacy is another form of prostitution.

If a woman is infertile then use IVF or adopt. But these women want white babies even though there are plenty of minority children who need a loving home. I guess they can only love white babies.

Actually they opt for surrogacy because want a baby that shares their and their partners genetics. Most of the time that happens to be a white baby, since white people have more wealth in this country and are the ones who are able to afford a surrogate in the first place.

It’s still like prostitution though because they are using a poor woman’s body to fulfill their needs, in exchange for money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a law that de facto makes it impossible for gay couples to have children. It’s not progressive. In Italy it was advanced by the far right government.

It doesn't prevent them from adopting. You can be a parent.

Only couples who have been married for 3 (or 4?) years can adopt. Gay marriage is illegal in Italy. Therefore, they cannot be parents.

So your solution is to exploit women?

Why do you want to control what women do with their bodies?

[Anonymous]

“Oh noes! I can’t exploit poor, under privileged women and buy their babies! How will I ever survive?!”

Like wtf is wrong with some of you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t really an issue of progressive or not. There is a just a different conception of human dignity and the role of the market in Europe than the US. In their view it infringes human dignity to allow “renting wombs”. Whereas in the US you tend to believe that people should have the right to make money from their body parts if they want to.

And, in the US there is little thought given to the welfare of the resulting baby, which is also consistent with the US versus Europe. The concern is not just exploitation of women, it’s also exploitation of the baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Americans have a very idealized view of Europe and how they think Europeans think, and that is very clear when we discuss reproductive issues.

Abortion rate is lower in many EU countries - Spain, Italy, etc. It’s not that women are having them earlier; it’s that they’re generally not having them. They are more vigilant about birth control. And with the waiting lists in the Spanish medical system, I suspect a lot of women who want an elective early abortion are paying for it out-of-pocket.

Surrogacy is seen as exploitative. In Spain, the general response is if you want a child and can’t have one, adopt an African or Latino child. People have IVF but, if unsuccessful, the general thinking is adopt a child from another country.

Most of Europe is also Roman Catholic and abortion is a mortal sin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europe is always way ahead of the United States in terms of human rights. Surrogacy in the U.S. is just like organ donation which is common in the developing world. Surrogacy benefits the wealthy while exploiting poor people, similar to poor folks selling their kidneys and other organs in South Asia.

They do not sell their kidneys. They are trafficked and their kidneys are harvested. Usually for Americans who can pay for the organs.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4224506

There is plenty of evidence that worldwide surrogates are trafficked women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Surrogacy is not benign and is not the answer for infertility.

Correct, no one who has other options just "does" surrogacy. It's a very specific type of female infertility where pregnancies can't be carried to term.

Want to reduce that need / number? Great, ACOG needs to formally recognize the field of reproductive immunology.

Wow you’re naive.

I'm not, I'm one of those women with that kind of infertility so I know a lot about it. 99.9% of women with this kind of infertility don't have 150K for a surrogate.

No one has an absolute right to have a child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europe is always way ahead of the United States in terms of human rights. Surrogacy in the U.S. is just like organ donation which is common in the developing world. Surrogacy benefits the wealthy while exploiting poor people, similar to poor folks selling their kidneys and other organs in South Asia.

They do not sell their kidneys. They are trafficked and their kidneys are harvested. Usually for Americans who can pay for the organs.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4224506

Terrifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62rmv63069o

At the bottom of this article it mentions that “all forms of surrogacy” are banned in Italy, France, Germany, and Spain. This really surprises me that Western European countries, that are typically rather progressive, at least compared to the U.S. would have this type of policy.

Good. It should be outlawed in the US as well. There is nothing progressive about wealthy women using poor women to have their babies because they don't want to lose their figured it they don't want to interrupt their careers. Surrogacy is despicable.

Surrogacy is amazing. If a woman chooses to do this in the US, she should be allowed to make the choice. It’s despicable to take this away.

I will believe you next time a rich billionaire woman chooses to be a surrogate.

I have a friend who was a surrogate and she’s not poor. She’s middle class. She was a surrogate for a gay couple and then for a couple where the woman couldn’t carry a baby.

I also have two friends who could onl have children via surrogacy and neither were rich.

If you can’t have your own children, for whatever reason, the path is extremely difficult and expensive. If women are willing to be surrogates and are compensated, more power to them.

The surrogate I know (acquaintance from HS) is also solidly middle class, maybe bumping up against UMC. She had 4 of her own kids young, easy pregnancies, and loved being pregnant. She was a surrogate twice for an infertile couple. She is also very religious and viewed it as a very "easy" thing she could do to help God build families.

What religion?

[Anonymous]

Surrogacy is supremely selfish for the infant and we already know that adopted newborns can experience grief and loss. When an infant is removed from their birth parent(s), even if the adoption is a positive step, the child still experiences separation from the primary caregiver they bonded with in utero.

If you love children so much why are you deliberately hurting them. These babies aren't crying for you but for the woman who gave them birth and their security from the beginning. Selfish and greedy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t really an issue of progressive or not. There is a just a different conception of human dignity and the role of the market in Europe than the US. In their view it infringes human dignity to allow “renting wombs”. Whereas in the US you tend to believe that people should have the right to make money from their body parts if they want to.

And, in the US there is little thought given to the welfare of the resulting baby, which is also consistent with the US versus Europe. The concern is not just exploitation of women, it’s also exploitation of the baby.

It’s not exploitation of anyone in the US. You should be allowed to carry a child for someone else, if that’s what you want to do. Treating grown women like children and telling them what they can do with their bodies is a scary trend and it’s increasing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Surrogacy is supremely selfish for the infant and we already know that adopted newborns can experience grief and loss. When an infant is removed from their birth parent(s), even if the adoption is a positive step, the child still experiences separation from the primary caregiver they bonded with in utero.

If you love children so much why are you deliberately hurting them. These babies aren't crying for you but for the woman who gave them birth and their security from the beginning. Selfish and greedy.

No, this is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t really an issue of progressive or not. There is a just a different conception of human dignity and the role of the market in Europe than the US. In their view it infringes human dignity to allow “renting wombs”. Whereas in the US you tend to believe that people should have the right to make money from their body parts if they want to.

And, in the US there is little thought given to the welfare of the resulting baby, which is also consistent with the US versus Europe. The concern is not just exploitation of women, it’s also exploitation of the baby.

It’s not exploitation of anyone in the US. You should be allowed to carry a child for someone else, if that’s what you want to do. Treating grown women like children and telling them what they can do with their bodies is a scary trend and it’s increasing.

We get it, you think you’re entitled to buy some other poor impoverished woman’s womb for your personal selfish gain. Disgusting.