William & Mary admission rates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

Just looking at Scattergrams from DCs large FCPS high school:

W&M rejects are overwhelmingly under 4.0 gpa and under 1350 SAT. Many other rejects with under 4.0 but over 1350 SAT. Looks to me like the “qualified” students (gpa over 4.2) are almost auto-admits. The rejects clearly shouldn’t have applied.

Meanwhile, UVA had a lot of rejects who look clearly unqualified (gpa under 4.0, SAT under 1400). However, UVA also rejected a large number of seemingly qualified kids (gpa over 4.2, and even 1500 SAT getting denied). There’s far more rejection in the top right than with W&M.

The impression is that a high stats kid is much more likely to get into W&M than UVA. There are lots of auto-rejects applying to UVA but there is no such thing as an auto-admit to UVA as there appears to be at W&M.

Is this yield protection?

Absolutely.

No. Read the follow up. They accepted 20+ even more qualified (higher stats) applicants, who should have been rejected if “yield protection” was being used.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WM and UVa statistics bith suggest that for many students, the odds of admission are better in EA/ED than in RD.

Both schools clearly deny that they apply different standards to early versus rd. They are different sets of applicants, they say. Who knows if it’s true.

W&M doesn’t deny this. In fact they say odds increase 8-10% if applying ED

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WM and UVa statistics both suggest that for many students, the odds of admission are better in EA/ED than in RD.

Most years, it’s about 1/3 each NOVA, ROVA and OOS. And 500-550 NOVA students seems like a lot, but Arlington, Alexandria, Fairfax, Loudoun— it really is t.

The admissions rates for those counties are not out of line with the broader in-state admissions rates though. I guess you would counter that there are more smart kids in NOVA so it is harder.

It's a simple matter of demographics. Nova/Fairfax is is heavily populated and blessed with good public and private schools The rest of VA is very different. Fairfax sends on average 600 kids a year to UVA.Some counties send only one qualified student or zero. This is all published in SCHEV for anyone to read

I know it is, that’s why I pointed out the admissions rates for NOVA counties are in line with the rest of the state.

[Anonymous]

OP my dc was invited to apply by an athletic coach there. DC did not get accepted (4.0+, 1470 SAT). The coach figured DC would get in w/o his help. He didn’t want to use good will on a strong student. Anyway, afterwards the coach told us that the school weighs heavily on early decision candidates. Something he wasn’t aware of at the time. Anyway, this was in the year 2020

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WM and UVa statistics bith suggest that for many students, the odds of admission are better in EA/ED than in RD.

Both schools clearly deny that they apply different standards to early versus rd. They are different sets of applicants, they say. Who knows if it’s true.

W&M doesn’t deny this. In fact they say odds increase 8-10% if applying ED

+1. Im the parent with the lower GPA ED admit kid. eD was definitely a bump her year. That was well know and factored in by parents and counselors, and the school didn’t try to hide it. “Who comes here belongs here” is the motto, and in the past, they have really wanted kids who are a good fit, and kid who really want them— and not just a backup for UVA or another school.

I’m wondering if they are changing things up in light of the SCOTUS ruling on AA and the USNWR ranking that dropped them so much based primarily on not having many Pell Grant students. They may have decided that, starting this year, they will rely less on the ED because economically disadvantaged students/ Pell Grant kids often can’t ED— they need to see the financial package. So maybe they are moving away from giving extra weight in ED to have more spots in RD for lower SES kids?

Just a guess. But what PP is saying does not line up with what was commonly accepted admissions advice when my kid (and their sibling who 2 years old, admitted in RD and did not attend) applied. The landscape is changing. Again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only a handful of 1693 scholarships, advantage in going ED1 or ED2, sign-up for an interview with admissions. Boys have about an 8% advantage in admissions.

Competitive admission, will most likely need over 1450 on SAT and 4.3+ on GPA.

This is interesting. Their website says the interview is with a current student and that it has no bearing on whether or not a kid is admitted. (My kid is signed up for the "shadow" day and not the interview, but maybe they should sign up for both?)

W&M tracks demonstrated interest, so yes, sign up for both

NP and my VA kid is very interested in W&M, has done a campus visit and is applying ED1. Has not signed up for interview due to social anxiety and doesn’t feel it will be an advantage.
But doesn’t applying ED 1 show “demonstrated interest” enough since ED applicants are committing to attend if admitted?
Or should I still encourage DC to do an interview?

My kid got in ED1 without doing an interview. Not mandatory. And you’re right—applying ED is the best form of demonstrated interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WM and UVa statistics bith suggest that for many students, the odds of admission are better in EA/ED than in RD.

Both schools clearly deny that they apply different standards to early versus rd. They are different sets of applicants, they say. Who knows if it’s true.

W&M doesn’t deny this. In fact they say odds increase 8-10% if applying ED

+1. Im the parent with the lower GPA ED admit kid. eD was definitely a bump her year. That was well know and factored in by parents and counselors, and the school didn’t try to hide it. “Who comes here belongs here” is the motto, and in the past, they have really wanted kids who are a good fit, and kid who really want them— and not just a backup for UVA or another school.

I’m wondering if they are changing things up in light of the SCOTUS ruling on AA and the USNWR ranking that dropped them so much based primarily on not having many Pell Grant students. They may have decided that, starting this year, they will rely less on the ED because economically disadvantaged students/ Pell Grant kids often can’t ED— they need to see the financial package. So maybe they are moving away from giving extra weight in ED to have more spots in RD for lower SES kids?

Just a guess. But what PP is saying does not line up with what was commonly accepted admissions advice when my kid (and their sibling who 2 years old, admitted in RD and did not attend) applied. The landscape is changing. Again.

They have up front aid guarantees based on income.

https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/costs-aid/in-state/pell-grant-guarantee/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

Just looking at Scattergrams from DCs large FCPS high school:

W&M rejects are overwhelmingly under 4.0 gpa and under 1350 SAT. Many other rejects with under 4.0 but over 1350 SAT. Looks to me like the “qualified” students (gpa over 4.2) are almost auto-admits. The rejects clearly shouldn’t have applied.

Meanwhile, UVA had a lot of rejects who look clearly unqualified (gpa under 4.0, SAT under 1400). However, UVA also rejected a large number of seemingly qualified kids (gpa over 4.2, and even 1500 SAT getting denied). There’s far more rejection in the top right than with W&M.

The impression is that a high stats kid is much more likely to get into W&M than UVA. There are lots of auto-rejects applying to UVA but there is no such thing as an auto-admit to UVA as there appears to be at W&M.

Is this yield protection?

Absolutely.

No. Read the follow up. They accepted 20+ even more qualified (higher stats) applicants, who should have been rejected if “yield protection” was being used.

I don't see that in the follow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

Just looking at Scattergrams from DCs large FCPS high school:

W&M rejects are overwhelmingly under 4.0 gpa and under 1350 SAT. Many other rejects with under 4.0 but over 1350 SAT. Looks to me like the “qualified” students (gpa over 4.2) are almost auto-admits. The rejects clearly shouldn’t have applied.

Meanwhile, UVA had a lot of rejects who look clearly unqualified (gpa under 4.0, SAT under 1400). However, UVA also rejected a large number of seemingly qualified kids (gpa over 4.2, and even 1500 SAT getting denied). There’s far more rejection in the top right than with W&M.

The impression is that a high stats kid is much more likely to get into W&M than UVA. There are lots of auto-rejects applying to UVA but there is no such thing as an auto-admit to UVA as there appears to be at W&M.

Is this yield protection?

Absolutely.

No. Read the follow up. They accepted 20+ even more qualified (higher stats) applicants, who should have been rejected if “yield protection” was being used.

I don't see that in the follow up.

09/08/2024 09:48

Anonymous wrote:
Is this yield protection?

I think it’s just “too many kids from FCPS applying”. There are lots of “even higher stats” kids getting accepted (just eyeballing it, over 20 with >4.3 and >1550) hard to see why they wouldn’t have been yield protected if anyone was. Also possible that “qualified but rejected” applied RD rather than ED, which scattergram doesn’t say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

UVA is like the lottery ticket Harvard of Virginia.
UVA is a bigger school with "something for everyone" so why not buy a lottery ticket.
W&M applicants are more self-selecting. It's more niche and not for everyone. People either love it or hate it.

When we toured UVA, I asked random students around campus why they chose UVA. A memorable quote was "I didn't look. I just applied. Many probably apply blindly, without knowing much about the school except for its ranking and reputation, which of course is very attractive. Very different from W&M whose students talked more about the vibe or the strength of the program they were pursuing.

If you look at the yield rates, W&M is lower (again, this is the love it/hate it factor) than UVA, which means they would need to increase their acceptance rates to make their enrollment class- which does make them look less selective (usuall translation- easier to get into) based on that number alone. It is very interesting to see that the stats of the enrolled students in both schools.

Yep my point exactly. W&M is currently in the first year of a yield increase pilot though, so it will be interested to see how that changes things. I'm also curious to see if the new undergrad Marine Science and Computer/Data Science schools will cause application numbers to jump (CS schools usually result in a lot of shotgun applications)

How do you know W&M is currently in the first year of a yield increase pilot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

UVA is like the lottery ticket Harvard of Virginia.
UVA is a bigger school with "something for everyone" so why not buy a lottery ticket.
W&M applicants are more self-selecting. It's more niche and not for everyone. People either love it or hate it.

When we toured UVA, I asked random students around campus why they chose UVA. A memorable quote was "I didn't look. I just applied. Many probably apply blindly, without knowing much about the school except for its ranking and reputation, which of course is very attractive. Very different from W&M whose students talked more about the vibe or the strength of the program they were pursuing.

If you look at the yield rates, W&M is lower (again, this is the love it/hate it factor) than UVA, which means they would need to increase their acceptance rates to make their enrollment class- which does make them look less selective (usuall translation- easier to get into) based on that number alone. It is very interesting to see that the stats of the enrolled students in both schools.

Yep my point exactly. W&M is currently in the first year of a yield increase pilot though, so it will be interested to see how that changes things. I'm also curious to see if the new undergrad Marine Science and Computer/Data Science schools will cause application numbers to jump (CS schools usually result in a lot of shotgun applications)

How do you know W&M is currently in the first year of a yield increase pilot?

Board of Visitors discussed it last year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

UVA is like the lottery ticket Harvard of Virginia.
UVA is a bigger school with "something for everyone" so why not buy a lottery ticket.
W&M applicants are more self-selecting. It's more niche and not for everyone. People either love it or hate it.

When we toured UVA, I asked random students around campus why they chose UVA. A memorable quote was "I didn't look. I just applied. Many probably apply blindly, without knowing much about the school except for its ranking and reputation, which of course is very attractive. Very different from W&M whose students talked more about the vibe or the strength of the program they were pursuing.

If you look at the yield rates, W&M is lower (again, this is the love it/hate it factor) than UVA, which means they would need to increase their acceptance rates to make their enrollment class- which does make them look less selective (usuall translation- easier to get into) based on that number alone. It is very interesting to see that the stats of the enrolled students in both schools.

Yep my point exactly. W&M is currently in the first year of a yield increase pilot though, so it will be interested to see how that changes things. I'm also curious to see if the new undergrad Marine Science and Computer/Data Science schools will cause application numbers to jump (CS schools usually result in a lot of shotgun applications)

How do you know W&M is currently in the first year of a yield increase pilot?

What is a yield increase?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WM and UVa statistics bith suggest that for many students, the odds of admission are better in EA/ED than in RD.

Both schools clearly deny that they apply different standards to early versus rd. They are different sets of applicants, they say. Who knows if it’s true.

W&M doesn’t deny this. In fact they say odds increase 8-10% if applying ED

+1. Im the parent with the lower GPA ED admit kid. eD was definitely a bump her year. That was well know and factored in by parents and counselors, and the school didn’t try to hide it. “Who comes here belongs here” is the motto, and in the past, they have really wanted kids who are a good fit, and kid who really want them— and not just a backup for UVA or another school.

I’m wondering if they are changing things up in light of the SCOTUS ruling on AA and the USNWR ranking that dropped them so much based primarily on not having many Pell Grant students. They may have decided that, starting this year, they will rely less on the ED because economically disadvantaged students/ Pell Grant kids often can’t ED— they need to see the financial package. So maybe they are moving away from giving extra weight in ED to have more spots in RD for lower SES kids?

Just a guess. But what PP is saying does not line up with what was commonly accepted admissions advice when my kid (and their sibling who 2 years old, admitted in RD and did not attend) applied. The landscape is changing. Again.

They have up front aid guarantees based on income.

https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/costs-aid/in-state/pell-grant-guarantee/

+1. It's a myth that students from poir backgrounds cannot apply ED. Also, if accepted ED and the financial package isn't doable, the student has an out. Same with Questbridge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

UVA is like the lottery ticket Harvard of Virginia.
UVA is a bigger school with "something for everyone" so why not buy a lottery ticket.
W&M applicants are more self-selecting. It's more niche and not for everyone. People either love it or hate it.

When we toured UVA, I asked random students around campus why they chose UVA. A memorable quote was "I didn't look. I just applied. Many probably apply blindly, without knowing much about the school except for its ranking and reputation, which of course is very attractive. Very different from W&M whose students talked more about the vibe or the strength of the program they were pursuing.

If you look at the yield rates, W&M is lower (again, this is the love it/hate it factor) than UVA, which means they would need to increase their acceptance rates to make their enrollment class- which does make them look less selective (usuall translation- easier to get into) based on that number alone. It is very interesting to see that the stats of the enrolled students in both schools.

Yep my point exactly. W&M is currently in the first year of a yield increase pilot though, so it will be interested to see how that changes things. I'm also curious to see if the new undergrad Marine Science and Computer/Data Science schools will cause application numbers to jump (CS schools usually result in a lot of shotgun applications)

How do you know W&M is currently in the first year of a yield increase pilot?

Board of Visitors discussed it last year

But a "discussion" by the Board means nothing. I'm on several boards for schools. We "discuss" all sorts of ideas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

UVA is like the lottery ticket Harvard of Virginia.
UVA is a bigger school with "something for everyone" so why not buy a lottery ticket.
W&M applicants are more self-selecting. It's more niche and not for everyone. People either love it or hate it.

When we toured UVA, I asked random students around campus why they chose UVA. A memorable quote was "I didn't look. I just applied. Many probably apply blindly, without knowing much about the school except for its ranking and reputation, which of course is very attractive. Very different from W&M whose students talked more about the vibe or the strength of the program they were pursuing.

If you look at the yield rates, W&M is lower (again, this is the love it/hate it factor) than UVA, which means they would need to increase their acceptance rates to make their enrollment class- which does make them look less selective (usuall translation- easier to get into) based on that number alone. It is very interesting to see that the stats of the enrolled students in both schools.

Yep my point exactly. W&M is currently in the first year of a yield increase pilot though, so it will be interested to see how that changes things. I'm also curious to see if the new undergrad Marine Science and Computer/Data Science schools will cause application numbers to jump (CS schools usually result in a lot of shotgun applications)

How do you know W&M is currently in the first year of a yield increase pilot?

Board of Visitors discussed it last year

But a "discussion" by the Board means nothing. I'm on several boards for schools. We "discuss" all sorts of ideas.

No this wasn't discussed as a hypothetical, it's something admissions is implementing