Jordan Chiles - must give back her bronze medal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the judges gave Jordan the wrong score
US was seconds late asking for a rescore
Jordan's real score is 3rd place but 5th due to a technicality

Is that right?

Jordan's real score was 4th if you also ignore the technicality that cost Sabrina the medal. If you count technicalities, Chiles is 5th, if you count what the gymnasts should have scored with competent judging, she's 4th. She's only 3rd if you count her appeal and continue to discount Sabrina's appeal.

The crazy part is that Ana is getting the medal with the 5th best performance.

The judges have never actually looked at Sabrina's appeal and they have the potential to find other deductions if they rescore her (the performance is reconsidered as a whole and scores can go up or down in an inquirt) so it's not clear where she'd place if her appeal was granted. Romania argues that she'd gain 0.1, but that's not been decided by the judges.

They said she stepped out of bounds, she didn't. That is even more cut and dry than chiles claiming an additional skill

And had she followed the rules and challenged it, then it would be a conversation. But she didn’t, so if we are strictly going by the rules, it doesn’t matter. She could have equally availed herself of the challenge process and did not.

When a gymnast files an inquiry, the judge rescore the whole routine so it's possible her score would go down instead of up if they consider that there was another mistake. No one knows the outcome beyond conjecture.

Apparently not. They may rescore the routine but are not required to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Details first published by The International Institute for Conflict Resolution and Prevention, a nonprofit organization, show that Mr. Gharavi, the presiding arbitrator in the hearing and a lawyer based in France, is currently serving as legal counsel to Romania in disputes at the World Bank’s International Centre for the Settlement of Investment Disputes. Mr. Gharavi’s work on behalf of Romania dates back almost a decade.

Under the sports court’s rules, arbitrators are required to complete conflict of interest declarations before every hearing.

“The issue is whether an Olympic arbitrator who currently represents a country on the global stage can decide a case involving a gymnast of that country, in an unbiased manner,” three arbitration experts wrote in an opinion published on the institute for conflict resolution’s website. “Is it realistic to expect such arbitrator can decide against the interests of that country or of that country’s gymnast, who in this case is represented by the Federation of Romanian Gymnasts?”

According to a WaPo article, the other judges were a Chinese and an Anglo-French lawyer with a history of being very pro-Russia and overturning Russian doping convictions.

And yet they denied Sabrina’s appeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the judges gave Jordan the wrong score
US was seconds late asking for a rescore
Jordan's real score is 3rd place but 5th due to a technicality

Is that right?

Jordan's real score was 4th if you also ignore the technicality that cost Sabrina the medal. If you count technicalities, Chiles is 5th, if you count what the gymnasts should have scored with competent judging, she's 4th. She's only 3rd if you count her appeal and continue to discount Sabrina's appeal.

Exactly. Americans can’t even look at this without bias. Te two Romanian gymnasts were the wronged parties here. You have video evidence that Sabrina didn’t step out and they still denied her appeal. The other Romanian gymnast had the medal taken away from her after they announced her winning bronze. Americans stop whining.

[Anonymous]

Good god, its amazing how corrupt the Olympics are. As bad as the UN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Details first published by The International Institute for Conflict Resolution and Prevention, a nonprofit organization, show that Mr. Gharavi, the presiding arbitrator in the hearing and a lawyer based in France, is currently serving as legal counsel to Romania in disputes at the World Bank’s International Centre for the Settlement of Investment Disputes. Mr. Gharavi’s work on behalf of Romania dates back almost a decade.

Under the sports court’s rules, arbitrators are required to complete conflict of interest declarations before every hearing.

“The issue is whether an Olympic arbitrator who currently represents a country on the global stage can decide a case involving a gymnast of that country, in an unbiased manner,” three arbitration experts wrote in an opinion published on the institute for conflict resolution’s website. “Is it realistic to expect such arbitrator can decide against the interests of that country or of that country’s gymnast, who in this case is represented by the Federation of Romanian Gymnasts?”

According to a WaPo article, the other judges were a Chinese and an Anglo-French lawyer with a history of being very pro-Russia and overturning Russian doping convictions.

It seems like the US should pull out of CAS and refuse to send any funding to groups using CAS. Can the IOC survive without USOC money?

[Anonymous]

All sports are governed by arbitrary ruling (well, except track, I guess). But even team sports are let down by bad calls, missed calls, etc. It's part of sports. Honestly, this all goes back to the US appealing in the first place. Sometimes, expecially when you don't really excel beyond the competion, judging just doesn't fall in your direction. Other times it does. Highly competitive team sport athletes know this and accept it. And the only way to get around it is to really outplay your competition. Jordan didn't do that, so they should havee just accepted the score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the judges gave Jordan the wrong score
US was seconds late asking for a rescore
Jordan's real score is 3rd place but 5th due to a technicality

Is that right?

Jordan's real score was 4th if you also ignore the technicality that cost Sabrina the medal. If you count technicalities, Chiles is 5th, if you count what the gymnasts should have scored with competent judging, she's 4th. She's only 3rd if you count her appeal and continue to discount Sabrina's appeal.

Exactly. Americans can’t even look at this without bias. Te two Romanian gymnasts were the wronged parties here. You have video evidence that Sabrina didn’t step out and they still denied her appeal. The other Romanian gymnast had the medal taken away from her after they announced her winning bronze. Americans stop whining.

Sorry, but Sabrina's coach (crazy stage mother) didn't challenge the out-of-bounds, so that doesn't matter. Her inquiry on other grounds was denied, so her score stands. She wasn't wronged, as the appropriate process was followed. Jordan was grievously wronged because the superior jury accepted her inquiry, changed her score, and awarded her the medal. The Superior Jury (i,e. the Federation of International Gymnastics) was also a party to the CAS proceeding and presented evidence in support of the outcome that awarded Jordan the medal. If the CAS decision was correct, then FIG massively screwed up, either by accepting the late inquiry or by not having their ducks in a row to demonstrate at the CAS hearing that the inquiry by Jordan's coaches was timely.

Also, Ana is partially a victim because it appeared that the arena announcer had begun to announce the winners, starting with gold medalist Rebeca Andrade, before the scoreboard reflected Jordan's inquiry. Ana most likely believed that when the announcement started, the scores were final. The announcements stopped after Rebeca, but it was confusing. Like Jordan, she continues to be victimized by the battle and uncertainty over whether the inquiry was timely, which is all FIG's fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All sports are governed by arbitrary ruling (well, except track, I guess). But even team sports are let down by bad calls, missed calls, etc. It's part of sports. Honestly, this all goes back to the US appealing in the first place. Sometimes, expecially when you don't really excel beyond the competion, judging just doesn't fall in your direction. Other times it does. Highly competitive team sport athletes know this and accept it. And the only way to get around it is to really outplay your competition. Jordan didn't do that, so they should havee just accepted the score.

I disagree with your last statement because Jordan's score was what the Superior Jury awarded, and that is final.

I do agree, though, with the general sentiment that human error is always going to be present in sports officiating and that the way to avoid being victimized is not to allow yourself to be at the mercy of the judges. That's what we all tell our kids when they are angry about a call. Lost in this public narrative that the system was out to get Jordan is the fact that if her performance had been on the same level as it was during qualifications and team finals, she would have won the medal without the inquiry. She only needed the additional .1 in difficulty because she didn't hit the rest of her routine. That still doesn't mean that she deserves any of this, but that is a fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the judges gave Jordan the wrong score
US was seconds late asking for a rescore
Jordan's real score is 3rd place but 5th due to a technicality

Is that right?

Jordan's real score was 4th if you also ignore the technicality that cost Sabrina the medal. If you count technicalities, Chiles is 5th, if you count what the gymnasts should have scored with competent judging, she's 4th. She's only 3rd if you count her appeal and continue to discount Sabrina's appeal.

Exactly. Americans can’t even look at this without bias. Te two Romanian gymnasts were the wronged parties here. You have video evidence that Sabrina didn’t step out and they still denied her appeal. The other Romanian gymnast had the medal taken away from her after they announced her winning bronze. Americans stop whining.

Sorry, but Sabrina's coach (crazy stage mother) didn't challenge the out-of-bounds, so that doesn't matter. Her inquiry on other grounds was denied, so her score stands. She wasn't wronged, as the appropriate process was followed. Jordan was grievously wronged because the superior jury accepted her inquiry, changed her score, and awarded her the medal. The Superior Jury (i,e. the Federation of International Gymnastics) was also a party to the CAS proceeding and presented evidence in support of the outcome that awarded Jordan the medal. If the CAS decision was correct, then FIG massively screwed up, either by accepting the late inquiry or by not having their ducks in a row to demonstrate at the CAS hearing that the inquiry by Jordan's coaches was timely.

Also, Ana is partially a victim because it appeared that the arena announcer had begun to announce the winners, starting with gold medalist Rebeca Andrade, before the scoreboard reflected Jordan's inquiry. Ana most likely believed that when the announcement started, the scores were final. The announcements stopped after Rebeca, but it was confusing. Like Jordan, she continues to be victimized by the battle and uncertainty over whether the inquiry was timely, which is all FIG's fault.

And Jordan's coach challenged late, so it doesn't matter. See how that logic works? The sport allows for an appeal to the CAS just like it allows an appeal to the superior jury. Jordan never should have won, the judges screwed Sabrina and then the screwed Ana by accepting a late appeal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the judges gave Jordan the wrong score
US was seconds late asking for a rescore
Jordan's real score is 3rd place but 5th due to a technicality

Is that right?

Jordan's real score was 4th if you also ignore the technicality that cost Sabrina the medal. If you count technicalities, Chiles is 5th, if you count what the gymnasts should have scored with competent judging, she's 4th. She's only 3rd if you count her appeal and continue to discount Sabrina's appeal.

Exactly. Americans can’t even look at this without bias. Te two Romanian gymnasts were the wronged parties here. You have video evidence that Sabrina didn’t step out and they still denied her appeal. The other Romanian gymnast had the medal taken away from her after they announced her winning bronze. Americans stop whining.

Sorry, but Sabrina's coach (crazy stage mother) didn't challenge the out-of-bounds, so that doesn't matter. Her inquiry on other grounds was denied, so her score stands. She wasn't wronged, as the appropriate process was followed. Jordan was grievously wronged because the superior jury accepted her inquiry, changed her score, and awarded her the medal. The Superior Jury (i,e. the Federation of International Gymnastics) was also a party to the CAS proceeding and presented evidence in support of the outcome that awarded Jordan the medal. If the CAS decision was correct, then FIG massively screwed up, either by accepting the late inquiry or by not having their ducks in a row to demonstrate at the CAS hearing that the inquiry by Jordan's coaches was timely.

Also, Ana is partially a victim because it appeared that the arena announcer had begun to announce the winners, starting with gold medalist Rebeca Andrade, before the scoreboard reflected Jordan's inquiry. Ana most likely believed that when the announcement started, the scores were final. The announcements stopped after Rebeca, but it was confusing. Like Jordan, she continues to be victimized by the battle and uncertainty over whether the inquiry was timely, which is all FIG's fault.

And Jordan's coach challenged late, so it doesn't matter. See how that logic works? The sport allows for an appeal to the CAS just like it allows an appeal to the superior jury. Jordan never should have won, the judges screwed Sabrina and then the screwed Ana by accepting a late appeal

Didn't I specifically say that the judges screwed Ana by accepting the inquiry late? I'm still not seeing how Sabrina was screwed by anyone other than her coach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the judges gave Jordan the wrong score
US was seconds late asking for a rescore
Jordan's real score is 3rd place but 5th due to a technicality

Is that right?

Jordan's real score was 4th if you also ignore the technicality that cost Sabrina the medal. If you count technicalities, Chiles is 5th, if you count what the gymnasts should have scored with competent judging, she's 4th. She's only 3rd if you count her appeal and continue to discount Sabrina's appeal.

Exactly. Americans can’t even look at this without bias. Te two Romanian gymnasts were the wronged parties here. You have video evidence that Sabrina didn’t step out and they still denied her appeal. The other Romanian gymnast had the medal taken away from her after they announced her winning bronze. Americans stop whining.

Sorry, but Sabrina's coach (crazy stage mother) didn't challenge the out-of-bounds, so that doesn't matter. Her inquiry on other grounds was denied, so her score stands. She wasn't wronged, as the appropriate process was followed. Jordan was grievously wronged because the superior jury accepted her inquiry, changed her score, and awarded her the medal. The Superior Jury (i,e. the Federation of International Gymnastics) was also a party to the CAS proceeding and presented evidence in support of the outcome that awarded Jordan the medal. If the CAS decision was correct, then FIG massively screwed up, either by accepting the late inquiry or by not having their ducks in a row to demonstrate at the CAS hearing that the inquiry by Jordan's coaches was timely.

Also, Ana is partially a victim because it appeared that the arena announcer had begun to announce the winners, starting with gold medalist Rebeca Andrade, before the scoreboard reflected Jordan's inquiry. Ana most likely believed that when the announcement started, the scores were final. The announcements stopped after Rebeca, but it was confusing. Like Jordan, she continues to be victimized by the battle and uncertainty over whether the inquiry was timely, which is all FIG's fault.

And Jordan's coach challenged late, so it doesn't matter. See how that logic works? The sport allows for an appeal to the CAS just like it allows an appeal to the superior jury. Jordan never should have won, the judges screwed Sabrina and then the screwed Ana by accepting a late appeal

But the US didn't challenge late. There's video evidence of a timely challenge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the judges gave Jordan the wrong score
US was seconds late asking for a rescore
Jordan's real score is 3rd place but 5th due to a technicality

Is that right?

Jordan's real score was 4th if you also ignore the technicality that cost Sabrina the medal. If you count technicalities, Chiles is 5th, if you count what the gymnasts should have scored with competent judging, she's 4th. She's only 3rd if you count her appeal and continue to discount Sabrina's appeal.

Exactly. Americans can’t even look at this without bias. Te two Romanian gymnasts were the wronged parties here. You have video evidence that Sabrina didn’t step out and they still denied her appeal. The other Romanian gymnast had the medal taken away from her after they announced her winning bronze. Americans stop whining.

Sorry, but Sabrina's coach (crazy stage mother) didn't challenge the out-of-bounds, so that doesn't matter. Her inquiry on other grounds was denied, so her score stands. She wasn't wronged, as the appropriate process was followed. Jordan was grievously wronged because the superior jury accepted her inquiry, changed her score, and awarded her the medal. The Superior Jury (i,e. the Federation of International Gymnastics) was also a party to the CAS proceeding and presented evidence in support of the outcome that awarded Jordan the medal. If the CAS decision was correct, then FIG massively screwed up, either by accepting the late inquiry or by not having their ducks in a row to demonstrate at the CAS hearing that the inquiry by Jordan's coaches was timely.

Also, Ana is partially a victim because it appeared that the arena announcer had begun to announce the winners, starting with gold medalist Rebeca Andrade, before the scoreboard reflected Jordan's inquiry. Ana most likely believed that when the announcement started, the scores were final. The announcements stopped after Rebeca, but it was confusing. Like Jordan, she continues to be victimized by the battle and uncertainty over whether the inquiry was timely, which is all FIG's fault.

And Jordan's coach challenged late, so it doesn't matter. See how that logic works? The sport allows for an appeal to the CAS just like it allows an appeal to the superior jury. Jordan never should have won, the judges screwed Sabrina and then the screwed Ana by accepting a late appeal

Didn't I specifically say that the judges screwed Ana by accepting the inquiry late? I'm still not seeing how Sabrina was screwed by anyone other than her coach.

You're not seeing how the girl who didn't go out of bounds and was docked for going out of bounds was screwed by the judges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the judges gave Jordan the wrong score
US was seconds late asking for a rescore
Jordan's real score is 3rd place but 5th due to a technicality

Is that right?

Jordan's real score was 4th if you also ignore the technicality that cost Sabrina the medal. If you count technicalities, Chiles is 5th, if you count what the gymnasts should have scored with competent judging, she's 4th. She's only 3rd if you count her appeal and continue to discount Sabrina's appeal.

Exactly. Americans can’t even look at this without bias. Te two Romanian gymnasts were the wronged parties here. You have video evidence that Sabrina didn’t step out and they still denied her appeal. The other Romanian gymnast had the medal taken away from her after they announced her winning bronze. Americans stop whining.

Sorry, but Sabrina's coach (crazy stage mother) didn't challenge the out-of-bounds, so that doesn't matter. Her inquiry on other grounds was denied, so her score stands. She wasn't wronged, as the appropriate process was followed. Jordan was grievously wronged because the superior jury accepted her inquiry, changed her score, and awarded her the medal. The Superior Jury (i,e. the Federation of International Gymnastics) was also a party to the CAS proceeding and presented evidence in support of the outcome that awarded Jordan the medal. If the CAS decision was correct, then FIG massively screwed up, either by accepting the late inquiry or by not having their ducks in a row to demonstrate at the CAS hearing that the inquiry by Jordan's coaches was timely.

Also, Ana is partially a victim because it appeared that the arena announcer had begun to announce the winners, starting with gold medalist Rebeca Andrade, before the scoreboard reflected Jordan's inquiry. Ana most likely believed that when the announcement started, the scores were final. The announcements stopped after Rebeca, but it was confusing. Like Jordan, she continues to be victimized by the battle and uncertainty over whether the inquiry was timely, which is all FIG's fault.

And Jordan's coach challenged late, so it doesn't matter. See how that logic works? The sport allows for an appeal to the CAS just like it allows an appeal to the superior jury. Jordan never should have won, the judges screwed Sabrina and then the screwed Ana by accepting a late appeal

Didn't I specifically say that the judges screwed Ana by accepting the inquiry late? I'm still not seeing how Sabrina was screwed by anyone other than her coach.

You're not seeing how the girl who didn't go out of bounds and was docked for going out of bounds was screwed by the judges?

As was the case for Jordan, there was an avenue for her coach to challenge the neutral deduction and her coach didn't use it, so no, I don't think she was screwed by the judges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the judges gave Jordan the wrong score
US was seconds late asking for a rescore
Jordan's real score is 3rd place but 5th due to a technicality

Is that right?

Jordan's real score was 4th if you also ignore the technicality that cost Sabrina the medal. If you count technicalities, Chiles is 5th, if you count what the gymnasts should have scored with competent judging, she's 4th. She's only 3rd if you count her appeal and continue to discount Sabrina's appeal.

Exactly. Americans can’t even look at this without bias. Te two Romanian gymnasts were the wronged parties here. You have video evidence that Sabrina didn’t step out and they still denied her appeal. The other Romanian gymnast had the medal taken away from her after they announced her winning bronze. Americans stop whining.

Sorry, but Sabrina's coach (crazy stage mother) didn't challenge the out-of-bounds, so that doesn't matter. Her inquiry on other grounds was denied, so her score stands. She wasn't wronged, as the appropriate process was followed. Jordan was grievously wronged because the superior jury accepted her inquiry, changed her score, and awarded her the medal. The Superior Jury (i,e. the Federation of International Gymnastics) was also a party to the CAS proceeding and presented evidence in support of the outcome that awarded Jordan the medal. If the CAS decision was correct, then FIG massively screwed up, either by accepting the late inquiry or by not having their ducks in a row to demonstrate at the CAS hearing that the inquiry by Jordan's coaches was timely.

Also, Ana is partially a victim because it appeared that the arena announcer had begun to announce the winners, starting with gold medalist Rebeca Andrade, before the scoreboard reflected Jordan's inquiry. Ana most likely believed that when the announcement started, the scores were final. The announcements stopped after Rebeca, but it was confusing. Like Jordan, she continues to be victimized by the battle and uncertainty over whether the inquiry was timely, which is all FIG's fault.

And Jordan's coach challenged late, so it doesn't matter. See how that logic works? The sport allows for an appeal to the CAS just like it allows an appeal to the superior jury. Jordan never should have won, the judges screwed Sabrina and then the screwed Ana by accepting a late appeal

But the US didn't challenge late. There's video evidence of a timely challenge.

I'm not the PP, but we haven't seen that, so we don't really know. USAG says there is evidence of a timely challenge, but has never made that video public or said where they got it. I would think that FIG wanted their decision to stand, so it was on them as the judges to present evidence to CAS that the inquiry was filed timely, and apparently, they didn't. The US shouldn't have to prove the inquiry was timely - FIG, as the ultimate judge and timer that accepted and ruled in the inquiry, should have been able to easily prove that it was, and they embarrassingly failed. Again, FIG is the most at fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the judges gave Jordan the wrong score
US was seconds late asking for a rescore
Jordan's real score is 3rd place but 5th due to a technicality

Is that right?

Jordan's real score was 4th if you also ignore the technicality that cost Sabrina the medal. If you count technicalities, Chiles is 5th, if you count what the gymnasts should have scored with competent judging, she's 4th. She's only 3rd if you count her appeal and continue to discount Sabrina's appeal.

Exactly. Americans can’t even look at this without bias. Te two Romanian gymnasts were the wronged parties here. You have video evidence that Sabrina didn’t step out and they still denied her appeal. The other Romanian gymnast had the medal taken away from her after they announced her winning bronze. Americans stop whining.

Sorry, but Sabrina's coach (crazy stage mother) didn't challenge the out-of-bounds, so that doesn't matter. Her inquiry on other grounds was denied, so her score stands. She wasn't wronged, as the appropriate process was followed. Jordan was grievously wronged because the superior jury accepted her inquiry, changed her score, and awarded her the medal. The Superior Jury (i,e. the Federation of International Gymnastics) was also a party to the CAS proceeding and presented evidence in support of the outcome that awarded Jordan the medal. If the CAS decision was correct, then FIG massively screwed up, either by accepting the late inquiry or by not having their ducks in a row to demonstrate at the CAS hearing that the inquiry by Jordan's coaches was timely.

Also, Ana is partially a victim because it appeared that the arena announcer had begun to announce the winners, starting with gold medalist Rebeca Andrade, before the scoreboard reflected Jordan's inquiry. Ana most likely believed that when the announcement started, the scores were final. The announcements stopped after Rebeca, but it was confusing. Like Jordan, she continues to be victimized by the battle and uncertainty over whether the inquiry was timely, which is all FIG's fault.

And Jordan's coach challenged late, so it doesn't matter. See how that logic works? The sport allows for an appeal to the CAS just like it allows an appeal to the superior jury. Jordan never should have won, the judges screwed Sabrina and then the screwed Ana by accepting a late appeal

Didn't I specifically say that the judges screwed Ana by accepting the inquiry late? I'm still not seeing how Sabrina was screwed by anyone other than her coach.

You're not seeing how the girl who didn't go out of bounds and was docked for going out of bounds was screwed by the judges?

As was the case for Jordan, there was an avenue for her coach to challenge the neutral deduction and her coach didn't use it, so no, I don't think she was screwed by the judges.

CAS said she was late