Which APS elementary schools should close?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Split ATS and make Drew the S. Arlington version and the current ATS the N. Arlington version, like Key and Claremont. It increases ATS spots, which is extremely popular, and will fill Drew. Then close Nottingham.

Yes, let's segregate even more!
Great idea!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Split ATS and make Drew the S. Arlington version and the current ATS the N. Arlington version, like Key and Claremont. It increases ATS spots, which is extremely popular, and will fill Drew. Then close Nottingham.

Not going to happen WRT Drew. It’s untouchable as a neighborhood school and with a seat deficit predicted in the adjacent Oakridge zone, it’s going to get more kids.

Redistricting students to Drew is just going to make parents unhappy. If you make it an option school, you don't reduce the number of seats and parents voluntarily enroll instead of kicking and screaming about being moved.

Stop beating a dead horse. You’re not incorrect that parents will be mad, but it is what it is.

The seat surplus is most acute in the NW. Just move Pre-K-6 Montessori there and close the 7-8 middle years and be done with it. Then we don’t need a crazy expensive build out at the Career Center site. Saves money there, frees up a little space at Gunston, and prevents APS from having to sell more land if they “close” a school in the NW. Why are we contorting ourselves and going into debt to expand an option program that is NOT desired by the overall community and taxpayers? There is NO waitlist for the MS years. It’s a ridiculous concept for that age group. Keep it through 6th since that’s the cohort grouping of 3 years. Tear down the old CC and Henry buildings and add some more green space for the kids at the CC and to offset the heat island along the Pike and for the community along the Pike to use when school isn’t in session.

APS elementary is K-5. Middle school is 6-8.
Welcome to Arlington and to the discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who are these principals tho?

One of them might be Cardinal, though I've never heard anything bad about that principal anywhere. Not even on DCUM.

The other one is Nottingham. There were real complaints about them years ago, but I haven't heard anything recently. My children didn't go to either school.

EG is a fantastic principal. She is low-key and very focused on her staff. Doesn't do a lot of mingling with parents but she puts in a lot of effort to get to know her students, which is what I care about the most. I have one kid with an IEP and two without. She is thoughtful and thorough in IEP meetings. We once had a disagreement about service hours and she really listened to my concerns and conceded to what I was asking for. One of my child's teachers had a family emergency this year and the communication surrounding that was very compassionate. I think its unfair to slander her rep when so many of us are quite happy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Split ATS and make Drew the S. Arlington version and the current ATS the N. Arlington version, like Key and Claremont. It increases ATS spots, which is extremely popular, and will fill Drew. Then close Nottingham.

Not going to happen WRT Drew. It’s untouchable as a neighborhood school and with a seat deficit predicted in the adjacent Oakridge zone, it’s going to get more kids.

Redistricting students to Drew is just going to make parents unhappy. If you make it an option school, you don't reduce the number of seats and parents voluntarily enroll instead of kicking and screaming about being moved.

Stop beating a dead horse. You’re not incorrect that parents will be mad, but it is what it is.

The seat surplus is most acute in the NW. Just move Pre-K-6 Montessori there and close the 7-8 middle years and be done with it. Then we don’t need a crazy expensive build out at the Career Center site. Saves money there, frees up a little space at Gunston, and prevents APS from having to sell more land if they “close” a school in the NW. Why are we contorting ourselves and going into debt to expand an option program that is NOT desired by the overall community and taxpayers? There is NO waitlist for the MS years. It’s a ridiculous concept for that age group. Keep it through 6th since that’s the cohort grouping of 3 years. Tear down the old CC and Henry buildings and add some more green space for the kids at the CC and to offset the heat island along the Pike and for the community along the Pike to use when school isn’t in session.

APS elementary is K-5. Middle school is 6-8.
Welcome to Arlington and to the discussion.

OMG, no sh**. But Montessori has 3 year cohorts. No reason why they can’t make an exception for the one school program and let them keep their 3 year groupings, with it ending in 6th, and eliminating the separate 6-8 program entirely. It’s called give-and-take. They have their model with more fidelity and we don’t have to keep paying for or make space at any MS for the Montessori MS program. You know they use this 3 year model as an argument for continuing into HS, and once they get their CC building that’s exactly what they’ll try next. It never ends. Enough! FFS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

LOL

The argument is that underenrolled schools in north Arlington because we built NEW schools up there to address all the people buying in 22207 and 22209 15-20 years ago to avoid south Arlington and now we have too much capacity is the drain on our resources.

Busing students to choice schools costs a lot of money and not everyone has access to those schools.

Every school should be as rigorous as ATS claims because not everyone can get into ATS. If Drew is closed, that entire school population should get first choice to ATS or another option.

I would love to see how much it costs to bus kids to option schools. I’m guessing it’s much less than people assume.

It’s not nearly as much as keeping an entire school building operating each year and paying the salaries of surplus staff.

APS doesn't have all the money anymore. Our budget seasons are projected to be quite lean over the next few years. Transportation costs to bus kids across the county has to be in play as well as do we really need more Montessori seats? It may end up just as under enrolled as the last experiment, Innovation.

You misunderstand me. I do not support growing the Montessori program at all. I also not support a neighborhood-only model. I DO support closing/consolidating schools in NW Arlington and moving Montessori to one of those buildings so that we don’t have to pay for the boondoggle of giving them the old Career Center building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Split ATS and make Drew the S. Arlington version and the current ATS the N. Arlington version, like Key and Claremont. It increases ATS spots, which is extremely popular, and will fill Drew. Then close Nottingham.

Not going to happen WRT Drew. It’s untouchable as a neighborhood school and with a seat deficit predicted in the adjacent Oakridge zone, it’s going to get more kids.

Redistricting students to Drew is just going to make parents unhappy. If you make it an option school, you don't reduce the number of seats and parents voluntarily enroll instead of kicking and screaming about being moved.

Stop beating a dead horse. You’re not incorrect that parents will be mad, but it is what it is.

The seat surplus is most acute in the NW. Just move Pre-K-6 Montessori there and close the 7-8 middle years and be done with it. Then we don’t need a crazy expensive build out at the Career Center site. Saves money there, frees up a little space at Gunston, and prevents APS from having to sell more land if they “close” a school in the NW. Why are we contorting ourselves and going into debt to expand an option program that is NOT desired by the overall community and taxpayers? There is NO waitlist for the MS years. It’s a ridiculous concept for that age group. Keep it through 6th since that’s the cohort grouping of 3 years. Tear down the old CC and Henry buildings and add some more green space for the kids at the CC and to offset the heat island along the Pike and for the community along the Pike to use when school isn’t in session.

APS elementary is K-5. Middle school is 6-8.
Welcome to Arlington and to the discussion.

OMG, no sh**. But Montessori has 3 year cohorts. No reason why they can’t make an exception for the one school program and let them keep their 3 year groupings, with it ending in 6th, and eliminating the separate 6-8 program entirely. It’s called give-and-take. They have their model with more fidelity and we don’t have to keep paying for or make space at any MS for the Montessori MS program. You know they use this 3 year model as an argument for continuing into HS, and once they get their CC building that’s exactly what they’ll try next. It never ends. Enough! FFS

+1 they’ve been lobbying for years for this.

[Anonymous]

I honestly don't understand the point of Montessori. What is it really other than mixed age groups of kids??

[Anonymous]

I get Montessori in PreK. Our family actually attended a satellite school at APS, and the program was really good. But in elementary? I've never heard of those fantastic academic outcomes of their students like you do for ATS and even immersion. And then most of the school goes to their neighborhood middle school. Why does this method need a whole pipeline and a shiny new school?

Who's doing it besides S. Arlington parents who want to escape their neighborhood schools? How many N. Arlington parents partake? Are they ATS lottery losers who just need to say their kids go to an "option school"? I'd like to see that data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Split ATS and make Drew the S. Arlington version and the current ATS the N. Arlington version, like Key and Claremont. It increases ATS spots, which is extremely popular, and will fill Drew. Then close Nottingham.

Not going to happen WRT Drew. It’s untouchable as a neighborhood school and with a seat deficit predicted in the adjacent Oakridge zone, it’s going to get more kids.

Redistricting students to Drew is just going to make parents unhappy. If you make it an option school, you don't reduce the number of seats and parents voluntarily enroll instead of kicking and screaming about being moved.

Stop beating a dead horse. You’re not incorrect that parents will be mad, but it is what it is.

The seat surplus is most acute in the NW. Just move Pre-K-6 Montessori there and close the 7-8 middle years and be done with it. Then we don’t need a crazy expensive build out at the Career Center site. Saves money there, frees up a little space at Gunston, and prevents APS from having to sell more land if they “close” a school in the NW. Why are we contorting ourselves and going into debt to expand an option program that is NOT desired by the overall community and taxpayers? There is NO waitlist for the MS years. It’s a ridiculous concept for that age group. Keep it through 6th since that’s the cohort grouping of 3 years. Tear down the old CC and Henry buildings and add some more green space for the kids at the CC and to offset the heat island along the Pike and for the community along the Pike to use when school isn’t in session.

APS elementary is K-5. Middle school is 6-8.
Welcome to Arlington and to the discussion.

OMG, no sh**. But Montessori has 3 year cohorts. No reason why they can’t make an exception for the one school program and let them keep their 3 year groupings, with it ending in 6th, and eliminating the separate 6-8 program entirely. It’s called give-and-take. They have their model with more fidelity and we don’t have to keep paying for or make space at any MS for the Montessori MS program. You know they use this 3 year model as an argument for continuing into HS, and once they get their CC building that’s exactly what they’ll try next. It never ends. Enough! FFS

Exactly. So end it all. You know they aren't going to stand for their kids coming into the middle of middle school as the "new" kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get Montessori in PreK. Our family actually attended a satellite school at APS, and the program was really good. But in elementary? I've never heard of those fantastic academic outcomes of their students like you do for ATS and even immersion. And then most of the school goes to their neighborhood middle school. Why does this method need a whole pipeline and a shiny new school?

Who's doing it besides S. Arlington parents who want to escape their neighborhood schools? How many N. Arlington parents partake? Are they ATS lottery losers who just need to say their kids go to an "option school"? I'd like to see that data.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/08/2022-23-Transfer-Report.pdf

You will probably find the transfer report interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get Montessori in PreK. Our family actually attended a satellite school at APS, and the program was really good. But in elementary? I've never heard of those fantastic academic outcomes of their students like you do for ATS and even immersion. And then most of the school goes to their neighborhood middle school. Why does this method need a whole pipeline and a shiny new school?

Who's doing it besides S. Arlington parents who want to escape their neighborhood schools? How many N. Arlington parents partake? Are they ATS lottery losers who just need to say their kids go to an "option school"? I'd like to see that data.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/08/2022-23-Transfer-Report.pdf

You will probably find the transfer report interesting.

So...
69.72% of Montessori comes from South Arlington.
86% of Campbell comes from South Arlington.
Immersion programs are generally split N/S; so that shows 50/50 participation.
ATS is 49.75% South Arlington; so again a 50/50 participation from north and south.

Less than half of HB come from 3 middle schools serving south Arlington, two of which also serve north arlington. (So favors north)
For high school HB, less than one-third come from Wakefield (28%). So 72% come from north Arlington. (favors north)
Even for W-L, 83 more transfer from YHS than from WHS. (favors north)
And 60% of Career Center, which I assume is (primarily?) Arlington Tech, come from WL and YHS. That's a straight lottery, yes? If so, favors north. Or is it "x" number of seats per school?

So what does that actually say?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Split ATS and make Drew the S. Arlington version and the current ATS the N. Arlington version, like Key and Claremont. It increases ATS spots, which is extremely popular, and will fill Drew. Then close Nottingham.

Not going to happen WRT Drew. It’s untouchable as a neighborhood school and with a seat deficit predicted in the adjacent Oakridge zone, it’s going to get more kids.

Redistricting students to Drew is just going to make parents unhappy. If you make it an option school, you don't reduce the number of seats and parents voluntarily enroll instead of kicking and screaming about being moved.

Stop beating a dead horse. You’re not incorrect that parents will be mad, but it is what it is.

The seat surplus is most acute in the NW. Just move Pre-K-6 Montessori there and close the 7-8 middle years and be done with it. Then we don’t need a crazy expensive build out at the Career Center site. Saves money there, frees up a little space at Gunston, and prevents APS from having to sell more land if they “close” a school in the NW. Why are we contorting ourselves and going into debt to expand an option program that is NOT desired by the overall community and taxpayers? There is NO waitlist for the MS years. It’s a ridiculous concept for that age group. Keep it through 6th since that’s the cohort grouping of 3 years. Tear down the old CC and Henry buildings and add some more green space for the kids at the CC and to offset the heat island along the Pike and for the community along the Pike to use when school isn’t in session.

APS elementary is K-5. Middle school is 6-8.
Welcome to Arlington and to the discussion.

OMG, no sh**. But Montessori has 3 year cohorts. No reason why they can’t make an exception for the one school program and let them keep their 3 year groupings, with it ending in 6th, and eliminating the separate 6-8 program entirely. It’s called give-and-take. They have their model with more fidelity and we don’t have to keep paying for or make space at any MS for the Montessori MS program. You know they use this 3 year model as an argument for continuing into HS, and once they get their CC building that’s exactly what they’ll try next. It never ends. Enough! FFS

Exactly. So end it all. You know they aren't going to stand for their kids coming into the middle of middle school as the "new" kids.

I don’t think we have to end it all, just draw a line. It’s really too much. A neighbor of mine was complaining that Montessori kids didn’t automatically get into HB. Those parents are the worst, literal worst and make all option schools/parents look bad. The entitlement is astonishing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Split ATS and make Drew the S. Arlington version and the current ATS the N. Arlington version, like Key and Claremont. It increases ATS spots, which is extremely popular, and will fill Drew. Then close Nottingham.

Not going to happen WRT Drew. It’s untouchable as a neighborhood school and with a seat deficit predicted in the adjacent Oakridge zone, it’s going to get more kids.

Redistricting students to Drew is just going to make parents unhappy. If you make it an option school, you don't reduce the number of seats and parents voluntarily enroll instead of kicking and screaming about being moved.

Stop beating a dead horse. You’re not incorrect that parents will be mad, but it is what it is.

The seat surplus is most acute in the NW. Just move Pre-K-6 Montessori there and close the 7-8 middle years and be done with it. Then we don’t need a crazy expensive build out at the Career Center site. Saves money there, frees up a little space at Gunston, and prevents APS from having to sell more land if they “close” a school in the NW. Why are we contorting ourselves and going into debt to expand an option program that is NOT desired by the overall community and taxpayers? There is NO waitlist for the MS years. It’s a ridiculous concept for that age group. Keep it through 6th since that’s the cohort grouping of 3 years. Tear down the old CC and Henry buildings and add some more green space for the kids at the CC and to offset the heat island along the Pike and for the community along the Pike to use when school isn’t in session.

APS elementary is K-5. Middle school is 6-8.
Welcome to Arlington and to the discussion.

OMG, no sh**. But Montessori has 3 year cohorts. No reason why they can’t make an exception for the one school program and let them keep their 3 year groupings, with it ending in 6th, and eliminating the separate 6-8 program entirely. It’s called give-and-take. They have their model with more fidelity and we don’t have to keep paying for or make space at any MS for the Montessori MS program. You know they use this 3 year model as an argument for continuing into HS, and once they get their CC building that’s exactly what they’ll try next. It never ends. Enough! FFS

Exactly. So end it all. You know they aren't going to stand for their kids coming into the middle of middle school as the "new" kids.

I don’t think we have to end it all, just draw a line. It’s really too much. A neighbor of mine was complaining that Montessori kids didn’t automatically get into HB. Those parents are the worst, literal worst and make all option schools/parents look bad. The entitlement is astonishing.

Aren't the HB and Montessori programs kind of similar? If so, I can see your neighbor's point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get Montessori in PreK. Our family actually attended a satellite school at APS, and the program was really good. But in elementary? I've never heard of those fantastic academic outcomes of their students like you do for ATS and even immersion. And then most of the school goes to their neighborhood middle school. Why does this method need a whole pipeline and a shiny new school?

Who's doing it besides S. Arlington parents who want to escape their neighborhood schools? How many N. Arlington parents partake? Are they ATS lottery losers who just need to say their kids go to an "option school"? I'd like to see that data.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/08/2022-23-Transfer-Report.pdf

You will probably find the transfer report interesting.

So...
69.72% of Montessori comes from South Arlington.
86% of Campbell comes from South Arlington.
Immersion programs are generally split N/S; so that shows 50/50 participation.
ATS is 49.75% South Arlington; so again a 50/50 participation from north and south.

Less than half of HB come from 3 middle schools serving south Arlington, two of which also serve north arlington. (So favors north)
For high school HB, less than one-third come from Wakefield (28%). So 72% come from north Arlington. (favors north)
Even for W-L, 83 more transfer from YHS than from WHS. (favors north)
And 60% of Career Center, which I assume is (primarily?) Arlington Tech, come from WL and YHS. That's a straight lottery, yes? If so, favors north. Or is it "x" number of seats per school?

So what does that actually say?

This isn't your point, but I'd like to understand how BOTH Key and Claremont have kids from Abingdon, Fleet, Arlington Science Focus, Ashlawn, Barcroft, Barrett, Cardinal, Carling Springs, Drew, Hoffman Boston, Innovation, Long Branch, Oakridge, and Randolph.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who are these principals tho?

One of them might be Cardinal, though I've never heard anything bad about that principal anywhere. Not even on DCUM.

The other one is Nottingham. There were real complaints about them years ago, but I haven't heard anything recently. My children didn't go to either school.

EG is a fantastic principal. She is low-key and very focused on her staff. Doesn't do a lot of mingling with parents but she puts in a lot of effort to get to know her students, which is what I care about the most. I have one kid with an IEP and two without. She is thoughtful and thorough in IEP meetings. We once had a disagreement about service hours and she really listened to my concerns and conceded to what I was asking for. One of my child's teachers had a family emergency this year and the communication surrounding that was very compassionate. I think it’s unfair to slander her rep when so many of us are quite happy!

She’s making amends for past sins so she doesn’t go to he!!.