Which APS elementary schools should close?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get Montessori in PreK. Our family actually attended a satellite school at APS, and the program was really good. But in elementary? I've never heard of those fantastic academic outcomes of their students like you do for ATS and even immersion. And then most of the school goes to their neighborhood middle school. Why does this method need a whole pipeline and a shiny new school?

Who's doing it besides S. Arlington parents who want to escape their neighborhood schools? How many N. Arlington parents partake? Are they ATS lottery losers who just need to say their kids go to an "option school"? I'd like to see that data.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/08/2022-23-Transfer-Report.pdf

You will probably find the transfer report interesting.

So...
69.72% of Montessori comes from South Arlington.
86% of Campbell comes from South Arlington.
Immersion programs are generally split N/S; so that shows 50/50 participation.
ATS is 49.75% South Arlington; so again a 50/50 participation from north and south.

Less than half of HB come from 3 middle schools serving south Arlington, two of which also serve north arlington. (So favors north)
For high school HB, less than one-third come from Wakefield (28%). So 72% come from north Arlington. (favors north)
Even for W-L, 83 more transfer from YHS than from WHS. (favors north)
And 60% of Career Center, which I assume is (primarily?) Arlington Tech, come from WL and YHS. That's a straight lottery, yes? If so, favors north. Or is it "x" number of seats per school?

So what does that actually say?

This isn't your point, but I'd like to understand how BOTH Key and Claremont have kids from Abingdon, Fleet, Arlington Science Focus, Ashlawn, Barcroft, Barrett, Cardinal, Carling Springs, Drew, Hoffman Boston, Innovation, Long Branch, Oakridge, and Randolph.

Some are probably kids who's parents moved during the school year but are being allowed to complete the year.

I don't know if they'd allow a kid to stay >1 year if their parents moved elsewhere in Arlington in the upper grades and there was still room in the class, as new non-native Spanish speakers can't join the program at that point. That doesn't seem crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

AMAC has joined the conversation. The Mary Coup didn't work so now they'll go after the Title I schools.

PP here. I don't even know what AMAC is (I assume montessori?), so I can assure you I'm not part of it.

So then you’re like a clueless Northie who wants to keep your extra schools open? At the expense of a school like Drew?!??

you seem nice

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Split ATS and make Drew the S. Arlington version and the current ATS the N. Arlington version, like Key and Claremont. It increases ATS spots, which is extremely popular, and will fill Drew. Then close Nottingham.

Not going to happen WRT Drew. It’s untouchable as a neighborhood school and with a seat deficit predicted in the adjacent Oakridge zone, it’s going to get more kids.

Redistricting students to Drew is just going to make parents unhappy. If you make it an option school, you don't reduce the number of seats and parents voluntarily enroll instead of kicking and screaming about being moved.

Stop beating a dead horse. You’re not incorrect that parents will be mad, but it is what it is.

The seat surplus is most acute in the NW. Just move Pre-K-6 Montessori there and close the 7-8 middle years and be done with it. Then we don’t need a crazy expensive build out at the Career Center site. Saves money there, frees up a little space at Gunston, and prevents APS from having to sell more land if they “close” a school in the NW. Why are we contorting ourselves and going into debt to expand an option program that is NOT desired by the overall community and taxpayers? There is NO waitlist for the MS years. It’s a ridiculous concept for that age group. Keep it through 6th since that’s the cohort grouping of 3 years. Tear down the old CC and Henry buildings and add some more green space for the kids at the CC and to offset the heat island along the Pike and for the community along the Pike to use when school isn’t in session.

APS elementary is K-5. Middle school is 6-8.
Welcome to Arlington and to the discussion.

OMG, no sh**. But Montessori has 3 year cohorts. No reason why they can’t make an exception for the one school program and let them keep their 3 year groupings, with it ending in 6th, and eliminating the separate 6-8 program entirely. It’s called give-and-take. They have their model with more fidelity and we don’t have to keep paying for or make space at any MS for the Montessori MS program. You know they use this 3 year model as an argument for continuing into HS, and once they get their CC building that’s exactly what they’ll try next. It never ends. Enough! FFS

Exactly. So end it all. You know they aren't going to stand for their kids coming into the middle of middle school as the "new" kids.

I don’t think we have to end it all, just draw a line. It’s really too much. A neighbor of mine was complaining that Montessori kids didn’t automatically get into HB. Those parents are the worst, literal worst and make all option schools/parents look bad. The entitlement is astonishing.

Aren't the HB and Montessori programs kind of similar? If so, I can see your neighbor's point.

So the Montessori kids get a fancy elementary, middle and HS experience at the expense of every other kid in APS?

I cannot say this loudly enough: F those kids. (And their parents.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

They are high performing because the class sizes are limited. It’s basically tax payer funded private school for the privileged few.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

Sorry, forgot to add, they will never close Drew because of Arlington’s history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

AMAC has joined the conversation. The Mary Coup didn't work so now they'll go after the Title I schools.

PP here. I don't even know what AMAC is (I assume montessori?), so I can assure you I'm not part of it.

So then you’re like a clueless Northie who wants to keep your extra schools open? At the expense of a school like Drew?!??

you seem nice

Thanks, I am. But I don’t suffer fools.

[Anonymous]

We are at Campbell. This might be sacrilege but I’m not sure there’s any magic to it. (We came from a North Arlington school because the outdoor and experiential learning sounded good.) I do wonder if it’s mostly just a school for South Arlington families to escape to if they don’t like their zoned school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are at Campbell. This might be sacrilege but I’m not sure there’s any magic to it. (We came from a North Arlington school because the outdoor and experiential learning sounded good.) I do wonder if it’s mostly just a school for South Arlington families to escape to if they don’t like their zoned school.

+1. Nice school but nothing special about it.

I’ve heard some principals have turned around schools that parents were avoiding. So it can be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get Montessori in PreK. Our family actually attended a satellite school at APS, and the program was really good. But in elementary? I've never heard of those fantastic academic outcomes of their students like you do for ATS and even immersion. And then most of the school goes to their neighborhood middle school. Why does this method need a whole pipeline and a shiny new school?

Who's doing it besides S. Arlington parents who want to escape their neighborhood schools? How many N. Arlington parents partake? Are they ATS lottery losers who just need to say their kids go to an "option school"? I'd like to see that data.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/08/2022-23-Transfer-Report.pdf

You will probably find the transfer report interesting.

So...
69.72% of Montessori comes from South Arlington.
86% of Campbell comes from South Arlington.
Immersion programs are generally split N/S; so that shows 50/50 participation.
ATS is 49.75% South Arlington; so again a 50/50 participation from north and south.

Less than half of HB come from 3 middle schools serving south Arlington, two of which also serve north arlington. (So favors north)
For high school HB, less than one-third come from Wakefield (28%). So 72% come from north Arlington. (favors north)
Even for W-L, 83 more transfer from YHS than from WHS. (favors north)
And 60% of Career Center, which I assume is (primarily?) Arlington Tech, come from WL and YHS. That's a straight lottery, yes? If so, favors north. Or is it "x" number of seats per school?

So what does that actually say?

This isn't your point, but I'd like to understand how BOTH Key and Claremont have kids from Abingdon, Fleet, Arlington Science Focus, Ashlawn, Barcroft, Barrett, Cardinal, Carling Springs, Drew, Hoffman Boston, Innovation, Long Branch, Oakridge, and Randolph.

Some are probably kids who's parents moved during the school year but are being allowed to complete the year.

I don't know if they'd allow a kid to stay >1 year if their parents moved elsewhere in Arlington in the upper grades and there was still room in the class, as new non-native Spanish speakers can't join the program at that point. That doesn't seem crazy.

To clarify, new non-native Spanish speakers can and do join immersion in later grades. They just have to pass a Spanish language test and there must be space available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are at Campbell. This might be sacrilege but I’m not sure there’s any magic to it. (We came from a North Arlington school because the outdoor and experiential learning sounded good.) I do wonder if it’s mostly just a school for South Arlington families to escape to if they don’t like their zoned school.

Cool story. But this isn’t where we have a ridiculous surplus of seats, nor is it a program that is trying to expand and use a large portion of the APS budget to do so. It’s not really relevant to this discussion. Thanks anyway, since I guess you can just go back to your neighborhood school if it’s not what you were hoping for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

They are high performing because the class sizes are limited. It’s basically tax payer funded private school for the privileged few.

what do you mean by "the class sizes are limited"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

They are high performing because the class sizes are limited. It’s basically tax payer funded private school for the privileged few.

what do you mean by "the class sizes are limited"?

Option schools can cap the size of their classes, and turn students away because classes are filled. Neighborhood schools don't have that option. In our family's experience, the class sizes at our neighborhood elementary school were significantly larger than class sizes at nearby option schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

They are high performing because the class sizes are limited. It’s basically tax payer funded private school for the privileged few.

what do you mean by "the class sizes are limited"?

Option schools can cap the size of their classes, and turn students away because classes are filled. Neighborhood schools don't have that option. In our family's experience, the class sizes at our neighborhood elementary school were significantly larger than class sizes at nearby option schools.

Class sizes are specified by the planning factors and are the same for all schools (except Montessori which has higher class sizes but has aides). Option schools don't have lower planning factors than other schools. Neighborhood schools may be affected by late registrations or people moving in-boundary during the school year, but people also move away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

They are high performing because the class sizes are limited. It’s basically tax payer funded private school for the privileged few.

what do you mean by "the class sizes are limited"?

Option schools can cap the size of their classes, and turn students away because classes are filled. Neighborhood schools don't have that option. In our family's experience, the class sizes at our neighborhood elementary school were significantly larger than class sizes at nearby option schools.

Which school? How far back? Just looked at several years of traffic light reports and it doesn't seem to have been an issue for quite a while. It might have been a bubble in your kid's grade that they couldn't address by adding a class without then creating very small class sizes (and needing a trailer for that one additional class).

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The option schools.

You mean close the high performing schools that are full and super popular with waiting lists, while there are under enrolled elem schools that no one wants to go to (ahem Drew). lol, no.

The programs are super popular because middle class families don't want to send their children to the low-performing schools. Not everyone can access those programs and the busing is a drain on our resources.

so again you really want to close the highest performing and most popular schools? we should be opening more of them, not less.

close the low performing neighborhood schools that no one wants to go to.

They are high performing because the class sizes are limited. It’s basically tax payer funded private school for the privileged few.

what do you mean by "the class sizes are limited"?

Option schools can cap the size of their classes, and turn students away because classes are filled. Neighborhood schools don't have that option. In our family's experience, the class sizes at our neighborhood elementary school were significantly larger than class sizes at nearby option schools.

Class sizes are specified by the planning factors and are the same for all schools (except Montessori which has higher class sizes but has aides). Option schools don't have lower planning factors than other schools. Neighborhood schools may be affected by late registrations or people moving in-boundary during the school year, but people also move away.

Correct. This was a few years back. The neighborhood school was significantly overenrolled, and the option schools were not. Are you saying class sizes are the same throughout APS? This was not our family's experience or observation.