Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the new right wing talking point. I have family who tell me it's "dangerous" and "irresponsible" to send children (especially white males) to college.

WRONG.

Wrong again, troll.

It is a left-wing talking point, if anything: https://www.tearthepaperceiling.org/

Take it from Pew. In 2019:

"The share of Americans saying colleges and universities have a negative effect has increased by 12 percentage points since 2012. The increase in negative views has come almost entirely from Republicans and independents who lean Republican. From 2015 to 2019, the share saying colleges have a negative effect on the country went from 37% to 59% among this group. Over that same period, the views of Democrats and independents who lean Democratic have remained largely stable and overwhelmingly positive."

and...

"In late 2018, 84% of Democrats and independents who lean to the Democratic Party said they have a great deal or a fair amount of confidence in college and university professors to act in the best interests of the public. Only about half (48%) of Republicans and Republican leaners said the same. In fact, 19% of Republicans said they have no confidence at all in college professors to act in the public interest. And in early 2019, 87% of Democrats – but fewer than half (44%) of Republicans – said colleges and universities are open to a wide range of opinions and viewpoints."

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/08/19/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education-2/

Also, funny how none of Dem leaning family is concerned with me sending my kids to college. Just the Trump thumpers.

You are still missing the point.

What your evidence argues is the imbalance of political thought among academics on campus in the US.

That fact is beyond dispute: college faculty overwhelmingly skews left, and you have to agree that’s a problem. Their concept is simple: “We advance the principles of open inquiry, viewpoint diversity, and constructive disagreement to improve higher education and academic research.”

It is a known, stubborn problem thr Heterodoxy Academy is trying to fight:

https://heterodoxacademy.org/

DP.

The right is anti-science, anti-evidence, pro-hate, and fond of conspiracy theories. The fact that college faculty reject the party of Chloroquine, calling LGBTQ people “groomers”, imaginary voter fraud, and “it snowed so global warming is a myth” is not a problem. Reality has a well known liberal bias.

THIS^^^

College faculty are highly educated people. They tend to believe facts, science, evidence, etc. Which apparently makes you a "liberal" nowadays.

There are quite a number of college faculty who are so far-left that they don't believe in facts science, evidence, etc. Dismiss that as a right-wing talking point all you want but it is a problem.

I absolutely see no other path for my daughters to take other than going to college. But I want them to attend a college where truth, open discussion and honesty exist. I don't want them to go to a place to be indoctrinated on either side.

On to my next point - I hate when people like Rowe say college is a waste of money and it's better to go to the trades like HVAC, plumbing, electrical. I do agree trades can be good BUT these comments are directed at boys.

How many girls do you know are going into trades? You don't people like Mike Rowe saying "go into trades or become a hair dresser/preschool teacher/standard women held jobs that don't require a college degree". Our boys will become less and less educated (seriously - look at what is currently happening on college campuses. The gender imbalance is only growing wider) and that is not a good thing for society in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the new right wing talking point. I have family who tell me it's "dangerous" and "irresponsible" to send children (especially white males) to college.

WRONG.

Wrong again, troll.

It is a left-wing talking point, if anything: https://www.tearthepaperceiling.org/

Take it from Pew. In 2019:

"The share of Americans saying colleges and universities have a negative effect has increased by 12 percentage points since 2012. The increase in negative views has come almost entirely from Republicans and independents who lean Republican. From 2015 to 2019, the share saying colleges have a negative effect on the country went from 37% to 59% among this group. Over that same period, the views of Democrats and independents who lean Democratic have remained largely stable and overwhelmingly positive."

and...

"In late 2018, 84% of Democrats and independents who lean to the Democratic Party said they have a great deal or a fair amount of confidence in college and university professors to act in the best interests of the public. Only about half (48%) of Republicans and Republican leaners said the same. In fact, 19% of Republicans said they have no confidence at all in college professors to act in the public interest. And in early 2019, 87% of Democrats – but fewer than half (44%) of Republicans – said colleges and universities are open to a wide range of opinions and viewpoints."

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/08/19/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education-2/

Also, funny how none of Dem leaning family is concerned with me sending my kids to college. Just the Trump thumpers.

Not a trump thumper at all but given the anti-Semitic rhetoric now on campuses, the Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard/UNC finding their admission policies racist, a number of colleges such as Brown, Emory, Duke and Yale settling claims in regards to colluding and basically price fixing financial aid, and the cost of attending college up 130% when wages have only increased 34% since 1990, can understand the concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the new right wing talking point. I have family who tell me it's "dangerous" and "irresponsible" to send children (especially white males) to college.

WRONG.

Wrong again, troll.

It is a left-wing talking point, if anything: https://www.tearthepaperceiling.org/

Take it from Pew. In 2019:

"The share of Americans saying colleges and universities have a negative effect has increased by 12 percentage points since 2012. The increase in negative views has come almost entirely from Republicans and independents who lean Republican. From 2015 to 2019, the share saying colleges have a negative effect on the country went from 37% to 59% among this group. Over that same period, the views of Democrats and independents who lean Democratic have remained largely stable and overwhelmingly positive."

and...

"In late 2018, 84% of Democrats and independents who lean to the Democratic Party said they have a great deal or a fair amount of confidence in college and university professors to act in the best interests of the public. Only about half (48%) of Republicans and Republican leaners said the same. In fact, 19% of Republicans said they have no confidence at all in college professors to act in the public interest. And in early 2019, 87% of Democrats – but fewer than half (44%) of Republicans – said colleges and universities are open to a wide range of opinions and viewpoints."

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/08/19/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education-2/

Also, funny how none of Dem leaning family is concerned with me sending my kids to college. Just the Trump thumpers.

You are still missing the point.

What your evidence argues is the imbalance of political thought among academics on campus in the US.

That fact is beyond dispute: college faculty overwhelmingly skews left, and you have to agree that’s a problem. Their concept is simple: “We advance the principles of open inquiry, viewpoint diversity, and constructive disagreement to improve higher education and academic research.”

It is a known, stubborn problem thr Heterodoxy Academy is trying to fight:

https://heterodoxacademy.org/

That's absolutely not the data from Pew, and it's definitely not arguing that. It didn't ask that question. It says that a majority of Republicans (i.e. the general public, not limited to Republicans on campus or college-educated) believe that "colleges have a negative effect on the country."

It may be because colleges skew left. If anything, why wouldn't the GOP/MAGA actively encourage white males to go to college? You know, to change the system internally. To be represented. But, then they couldn't carry the victim card they so desperately want, which is Exhibit A in my family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the new right wing talking point. I have family who tell me it's "dangerous" and "irresponsible" to send children (especially white males) to college.

WRONG.

Wrong again, troll.

It is a left-wing talking point, if anything: https://www.tearthepaperceiling.org/

Take it from Pew. In 2019:

"The share of Americans saying colleges and universities have a negative effect has increased by 12 percentage points since 2012. The increase in negative views has come almost entirely from Republicans and independents who lean Republican. From 2015 to 2019, the share saying colleges have a negative effect on the country went from 37% to 59% among this group. Over that same period, the views of Democrats and independents who lean Democratic have remained largely stable and overwhelmingly positive."

and...

"In late 2018, 84% of Democrats and independents who lean to the Democratic Party said they have a great deal or a fair amount of confidence in college and university professors to act in the best interests of the public. Only about half (48%) of Republicans and Republican leaners said the same. In fact, 19% of Republicans said they have no confidence at all in college professors to act in the public interest. And in early 2019, 87% of Democrats – but fewer than half (44%) of Republicans – said colleges and universities are open to a wide range of opinions and viewpoints."

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/08/19/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education-2/

Also, funny how none of Dem leaning family is concerned with me sending my kids to college. Just the Trump thumpers.

You are still missing the point.

What your evidence argues is the imbalance of political thought among academics on campus in the US.

That fact is beyond dispute: college faculty overwhelmingly skews left, and you have to agree that’s a problem. Their concept is simple: “We advance the principles of open inquiry, viewpoint diversity, and constructive disagreement to improve higher education and academic research.”

It is a known, stubborn problem thr Heterodoxy Academy is trying to fight:

https://heterodoxacademy.org/

DP.

The right is anti-science, anti-evidence, pro-hate, and fond of conspiracy theories. The fact that college faculty reject the party of Chloroquine, calling LGBTQ people “groomers”, imaginary voter fraud, and “it snowed so global warming is a myth” is not a problem. Reality has a well known liberal bias.

THIS^^^

College faculty are highly educated people. They tend to believe facts, science, evidence, etc. Which apparently makes you a "liberal" nowadays.

There are quite a number of college faculty who are so far-left that they don't believe in facts science, evidence, etc. Dismiss that as a right-wing talking point all you want but it is a problem.

I absolutely see no other path for my daughters to take other than going to college. But I want them to attend a college where truth, open discussion and honesty exist. I don't want them to go to a place to be indoctrinated on either side.

On to my next point - I hate when people like Rowe say college is a waste of money and it's better to go to the trades like HVAC, plumbing, electrical. I do agree trades can be good BUT these comments are directed at boys.

How many girls do you know are going into trades? You don't people like Mike Rowe saying "go into trades or become a hair dresser/preschool teacher/standard women held jobs that don't require a college degree". Our boys will become less and less educated (seriously - look at what is currently happening on college campuses. The gender imbalance is only growing wider) and that is not a good thing for society in the long run.

Your claim doesn’t match my anecdotal experience whatsoever (I work in STEM and I’m married to an academic who is very active the national level in promoting evidence-based policymaking). 10 years ago, evidence-based policy was a bi-partisan ideal (with both parties believing that rigorous evidence would show where their opponents were wrong). Today it’s a different story. The right today deals in Jewish space lasers, Italian ghosts stealing votes and other absolute nonsense like that. It’s not even possible to have a conversation about policy because consensus reality is no longer the starting point.

There may be some hardcore leftist humanities academics who are out of touch. Pretending that they are an important issue when one of our major political parties is actively, openly rejecting democracy is really rearranging the dust motes on the armchairs on the deck of the titanic.

Honestly, promoting the idea that left wing academics are an issue without actively acknowledging the looming catastrophe of GOP efforts at all levels to overturn democracy (e.g. in Georgia, NC, and Wisconsin) seems like a propaganda effort in support of those anti democracy efforts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come back to me when high schools grads make the same money. I’m pretty happy when college educated engineers design our infrastructure

I mean…if someone passes the engineering certifications I don’t care how they learned the material whether attending college or on their own.

You do realize that the founders of Oracle, Tumblr, Open AI and many other companies only have HS diplomas…however they are skilled.

Tumblr??

The guys who built OpenAI definitely have degrees and probably PhD. The sales guy currently running it does not, but his job is not AI but selling AI, and it’s well established that sales bros don’t need degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come back to me when high schools grads make the same money. I’m pretty happy when college educated engineers design our infrastructure

I mean…if someone passes the engineering certifications I don’t care how they learned the material whether attending college or on their own.

You do realize that the founders of Oracle, Tumblr, Open AI and many other companies only have HS diplomas…however they are skilled.

Oracle has 3 founders with 2.6 college degrees between them.

OpenAI has many founders, most have degrees. I got bored before checking them all.

Tumblr has a high school "dropout" founder.

A college degree is required for a Professional Engineer certification.

You realize you just reinforced pp’s point. What is the difference between the ones with college degrees and the ones without? Nothing. The degree was obviously not critical to their accomplishments.

Tell me you know nothing about AI without telling me.

Most of OpenAI’s founders have PhDs, as do a huge, disproportionate number of the top staff.

There is that stupid phrase again…the bulk of the Open AI “founders” relate to its non-profit days and are academics that are not even technologists. They weren’t founders in any real sense because they had nothing to do with actually creating the technology but are ethicists that really just sat on the board. Yes, there are PhDs at Open AI, as there are at plenty of companies.

Sam Altman who everyone recognizes as the product founder and CEO dropped out of college. As did the 2 Microsoft founders; Jack Dorsey that founded multiple companies; Mark Zuckerberg; The he list goes on.

Folks…stop being obtuse…you have to be skilled, this is not HS dropouts with no skills…the point is companies don’t care how you acquire the skills.

San, like many of those “college dropout” founders, attended an elite college prep high school. The curriculum, level of instruction is very high and probably somewhat comparable to a mid tier college degree. Since it costs MORE than most colleges, it’s probably a worse option for most, btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come back to me when high schools grads make the same money. I’m pretty happy when college educated engineers design our infrastructure

I mean…if someone passes the engineering certifications I don’t care how they learned the material whether attending college or on their own.

You do realize that the founders of Oracle, Tumblr, Open AI and many other companies only have HS diplomas…however they are skilled.

Tumblr??

The guys who built OpenAI definitely have degrees and probably PhD. The sales guy currently running it does not, but his job is not AI but selling AI, and it’s well established that sales bros don’t need degrees.

Sam Altman isn't a "sales" guy. Open AI actually employs quite a few people without college degrees, and yes people with a BS up to a PhD.

The founder of Tumblr is a HS dropout and sold it to Yahoo for $1BN. You think he cares that Yahoo cratered (considering he liquidated most of his holdings years ago)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come back to me when high schools grads make the same money. I’m pretty happy when college educated engineers design our infrastructure

I mean…if someone passes the engineering certifications I don’t care how they learned the material whether attending college or on their own.

You do realize that the founders of Oracle, Tumblr, Open AI and many other companies only have HS diplomas…however they are skilled.

Oracle has 3 founders with 2.6 college degrees between them.

OpenAI has many founders, most have degrees. I got bored before checking them all.

Tumblr has a high school "dropout" founder.

A college degree is required for a Professional Engineer certification.

You realize you just reinforced pp’s point. What is the difference between the ones with college degrees and the ones without? Nothing. The degree was obviously not critical to their accomplishments.

Tell me you know nothing about AI without telling me.

Most of OpenAI’s founders have PhDs, as do a huge, disproportionate number of the top staff.

There is that stupid phrase again…the bulk of the Open AI “founders” relate to its non-profit days and are academics that are not even technologists. They weren’t founders in any real sense because they had nothing to do with actually creating the technology but are ethicists that really just sat on the board. Yes, there are PhDs at Open AI, as there are at plenty of companies.

Sam Altman who everyone recognizes as the product founder and CEO dropped out of college. As did the 2 Microsoft founders; Jack Dorsey that founded multiple companies; Mark Zuckerberg; The he list goes on.

Folks…stop being obtuse…you have to be skilled, this is not HS dropouts with no skills…the point is companies don’t care how you acquire the skills.

San, like many of those “college dropout” founders, attended an elite college prep high school. The curriculum, level of instruction is very high and probably somewhat comparable to a mid tier college degree. Since it costs MORE than most colleges, it’s probably a worse option for most, btw.

Their elite college prep high school taught them nothing about coding. Mark Zuckerberg didn't have any advanced CS classes at Andover (not sure he had any at all). Obviously, Bill Gates didn't have any CS instruction at his school...considering the field basically didn't exist.

By that logic, you would have lots of Exeter and Andover kids skipping college right-and-left which they don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the new right wing talking point. I have family who tell me it's "dangerous" and "irresponsible" to send children (especially white males) to college.

WRONG.

Wrong again, troll.

It is a left-wing talking point, if anything: https://www.tearthepaperceiling.org/

Take it from Pew. In 2019:

"The share of Americans saying colleges and universities have a negative effect has increased by 12 percentage points since 2012. The increase in negative views has come almost entirely from Republicans and independents who lean Republican. From 2015 to 2019, the share saying colleges have a negative effect on the country went from 37% to 59% among this group. Over that same period, the views of Democrats and independents who lean Democratic have remained largely stable and overwhelmingly positive."

and...

"In late 2018, 84% of Democrats and independents who lean to the Democratic Party said they have a great deal or a fair amount of confidence in college and university professors to act in the best interests of the public. Only about half (48%) of Republicans and Republican leaners said the same. In fact, 19% of Republicans said they have no confidence at all in college professors to act in the public interest. And in early 2019, 87% of Democrats – but fewer than half (44%) of Republicans – said colleges and universities are open to a wide range of opinions and viewpoints."

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/08/19/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education-2/

Also, funny how none of Dem leaning family is concerned with me sending my kids to college. Just the Trump thumpers.

Not a trump thumper at all but given the anti-Semitic rhetoric now on campuses, the Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard/UNC finding their admission policies racist, a number of colleges such as Brown, Emory, Duke and Yale settling claims in regards to colluding and basically price fixing financial aid, and the cost of attending college up 130% when wages have only increased 34% since 1990, can understand the concerns.

DP. A lot of that antisemitism is false. Like the attacks on Gay and Elizabeth Magill or saying you are concerned about the Palestinian civilians. You do know being Jewish gives one the best chance for admission to an Ivy League. Ivy schools have between 10-25% jewish student population. This is a great number considering 2% of the population is jewish and most of the 2% is older(ie not college age). Now that percentage is down in the past decades. It use to be 15-40% depending on the school. Some feel this reduction is the result of DEI and separately Asian students increases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read an interesting article about how the welder making 100k is largely a myth. that's something like the top 5% of all welders.

I think trades are great, but wish we gave kids greater transparency. Ditto humanities majors, ditto design majors, ditto CS majors.

Trades are great, and yes some can make excellent money. But the majority are not. While you might pay your plumber $150/hour from the momement they leave their previous job until they are done at your home, the guy doing the work is most likely NOT getting $150/hr. They are getting $30-40 (unless it is a very small local company or you live in a VHCOL area). Also keep in mind, that most trade jobs are very hard on your body---cannot imagine wanting to do those jobs at 45+. So what do you do when your body no longer allows you to work 8+ hours in the trade?

Hourly rate for trades tends to be pretty good, but most people in the trades do not get paid holidays, paid vacation, paid sick, or paid parental leave. And often can't work if the weather is bad (e.g., its raining or snowing or too hot). So they need to make substantially more to cover themselves for those days. One reason why the trades has historically been a good field is that it's pretty easy to eventually become your own boss (which solves some of the "aging body" problem), but then of course you also have things like insurance and bonding costs. And many trades people can't work year-round. A lot of the trades are heavily seasonal, so you need a second gig to carry you through the slow season, or to make enough money in the busy season to carry you through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the new right wing talking point. I have family who tell me it's "dangerous" and "irresponsible" to send children (especially white males) to college.

WRONG.

Wrong again, troll.

It is a left-wing talking point, if anything: https://www.tearthepaperceiling.org/

Take it from Pew. In 2019:

"The share of Americans saying colleges and universities have a negative effect has increased by 12 percentage points since 2012. The increase in negative views has come almost entirely from Republicans and independents who lean Republican. From 2015 to 2019, the share saying colleges have a negative effect on the country went from 37% to 59% among this group. Over that same period, the views of Democrats and independents who lean Democratic have remained largely stable and overwhelmingly positive."

and...

"In late 2018, 84% of Democrats and independents who lean to the Democratic Party said they have a great deal or a fair amount of confidence in college and university professors to act in the best interests of the public. Only about half (48%) of Republicans and Republican leaners said the same. In fact, 19% of Republicans said they have no confidence at all in college professors to act in the public interest. And in early 2019, 87% of Democrats – but fewer than half (44%) of Republicans – said colleges and universities are open to a wide range of opinions and viewpoints."

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/08/19/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education-2/

Also, funny how none of Dem leaning family is concerned with me sending my kids to college. Just the Trump thumpers.

Not a trump thumper at all but given the anti-Semitic rhetoric now on campuses, the Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard/UNC finding their admission policies racist, a number of colleges such as Brown, Emory, Duke and Yale settling claims in regards to colluding and basically price fixing financial aid, and the cost of attending college up 130% when wages have only increased 34% since 1990, can understand the concerns.

DP. A lot of that antisemitism is false. Like the attacks on Gay and Elizabeth Magill or saying you are concerned about the Palestinian civilians. You do know being Jewish gives one the best chance for admission to an Ivy League. Ivy schools have between 10-25% jewish student population. This is a great number considering 2% of the population is jewish and most of the 2% is older(ie not college age). Now that percentage is down in the past decades. It use to be 15-40% depending on the school. Some feel this reduction is the result of DEI and separately Asian students increases.

It is not false at all, and you should be ashamed of yourself for perpetuating such a lie. Are you a neo-Nazi or something?

[Anonymous]

There are many groups of dumb people in America. We don't have to limit it to just one. They mainly include people who are not contributing positively to society and those that only see the world through their eyes. Rural and urban areas need different things. Government can help some problems in society but not all. Every area has its dumb people and that includes universities. We need many different intelligences to keep this country afloat. Universities are becoming too conformist to each other. They suffer bias same as everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the new right wing talking point. I have family who tell me it's "dangerous" and "irresponsible" to send children (especially white males) to college.

WRONG.

Wrong again, troll.

It is a left-wing talking point, if anything: https://www.tearthepaperceiling.org/

Take it from Pew. In 2019:

"The share of Americans saying colleges and universities have a negative effect has increased by 12 percentage points since 2012. The increase in negative views has come almost entirely from Republicans and independents who lean Republican. From 2015 to 2019, the share saying colleges have a negative effect on the country went from 37% to 59% among this group. Over that same period, the views of Democrats and independents who lean Democratic have remained largely stable and overwhelmingly positive."

and...

"In late 2018, 84% of Democrats and independents who lean to the Democratic Party said they have a great deal or a fair amount of confidence in college and university professors to act in the best interests of the public. Only about half (48%) of Republicans and Republican leaners said the same. In fact, 19% of Republicans said they have no confidence at all in college professors to act in the public interest. And in early 2019, 87% of Democrats – but fewer than half (44%) of Republicans – said colleges and universities are open to a wide range of opinions and viewpoints."

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/08/19/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education-2/

Also, funny how none of Dem leaning family is concerned with me sending my kids to college. Just the Trump thumpers.

Not a trump thumper at all but given the anti-Semitic rhetoric now on campuses, the Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard/UNC finding their admission policies racist, a number of colleges such as Brown, Emory, Duke and Yale settling claims in regards to colluding and basically price fixing financial aid, and the cost of attending college up 130% when wages have only increased 34% since 1990, can understand the concerns.

The fact is that the current American wave of anti-Semitism is driven by folks like the Oath Keepers and other pro-Trump right wingers. People repeating the clumsy Fox News narrative that US colleges and the institutions of liberal democracy are anti-Semitic (or that Americans who join the huge number of Israeli Jews who oppose IDF excesses in Gaza are anti-Semetic) are carrying water for Putin and other US adversaries.

-Israeli-American parent of a student at one of these schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read an interesting article about how the welder making 100k is largely a myth. that's something like the top 5% of all welders.

I think trades are great, but wish we gave kids greater transparency. Ditto humanities majors, ditto design majors, ditto CS majors.

Trades are great, and yes some can make excellent money. But the majority are not. While you might pay your plumber $150/hour from the momement they leave their previous job until they are done at your home, the guy doing the work is most likely NOT getting $150/hr. They are getting $30-40 (unless it is a very small local company or you live in a VHCOL area). Also keep in mind, that most trade jobs are very hard on your body---cannot imagine wanting to do those jobs at 45+. So what do you do when your body no longer allows you to work 8+ hours in the trade?

Hourly rate for trades tends to be pretty good, but most people in the trades do not get paid holidays, paid vacation, paid sick, or paid parental leave. And often can't work if the weather is bad (e.g., its raining or snowing or too hot). So they need to make substantially more to cover themselves for those days. One reason why the trades has historically been a good field is that it's pretty easy to eventually become your own boss (which solves some of the "aging body" problem), but then of course you also have things like insurance and bonding costs. And many trades people can't work year-round. A lot of the trades are heavily seasonal, so you need a second gig to carry you through the slow season, or to make enough money in the busy season to carry you through.

All excellent points! That is why, if I had a kid interested in a trade, I would encourage them to get a AA/2 year degree in business at a minimum. That helps put you on a path to "being your own boss" Much better to be the boss of multiple trade businesses (if they are seasonal) than to not be getting paid because you are sick for a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read an interesting article about how the welder making 100k is largely a myth. that's something like the top 5% of all welders.

I think trades are great, but wish we gave kids greater transparency. Ditto humanities majors, ditto design majors, ditto CS majors.

Trades are great, and yes some can make excellent money. But the majority are not. While you might pay your plumber $150/hour from the momement they leave their previous job until they are done at your home, the guy doing the work is most likely NOT getting $150/hr. They are getting $30-40 (unless it is a very small local company or you live in a VHCOL area). Also keep in mind, that most trade jobs are very hard on your body---cannot imagine wanting to do those jobs at 45+. So what do you do when your body no longer allows you to work 8+ hours in the trade?

Hourly rate for trades tends to be pretty good, but most people in the trades do not get paid holidays, paid vacation, paid sick, or paid parental leave. And often can't work if the weather is bad (e.g., its raining or snowing or too hot). So they need to make substantially more to cover themselves for those days. One reason why the trades has historically been a good field is that it's pretty easy to eventually become your own boss (which solves some of the "aging body" problem), but then of course you also have things like insurance and bonding costs. And many trades people can't work year-round. A lot of the trades are heavily seasonal, so you need a second gig to carry you through the slow season, or to make enough money in the busy season to carry you through.

There are of course many trades outside of plumber, electrician, contractor, landscaper that is seasonal. Certainly, welders, pipe fitters, mechanics, also electricians have lots of opportunities with companies where you might be paid hourly, but you are employed throughout the year.