Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fact still remains that majority of jobs require a college degree. Even EA/"secretary" positions now often list it as a requirement for the job, when 20+ years ago that was not a thing.

So unless your kid is interested in the Trades, a college degree is the best path forward to a good paying career. And even if you go into the trades, a 2 year business degree can be helpful because I don't know many 45yo+ working in the trades who don't wish they could be "running the business"/not be doing the physical labor for 8+ hours a day. Those jobs can wear on your body as you age. AA in business just might set you up to be managing/running the business.

So the key is getting the degree at an affordable rate. That means with minimal debt, especially if you know the first 5 years with your degree will be "lower paying" and for some majors will never go "high pay" unless you switch careers (think social work, education and even things like PT---a 3 year Doctorate is required yet you will max out at $100K in most areas, except VHCOL, yet many spend $200K to get the degree, so if you plan that route, undergrad needs to be Debt free or close to it). If you want to be a teacher, great, we need awesome teachers. But don't go into major debt to get your degree. Figure out where you want to teach, go to school in that state and do your student teaching there and get certified in that state. Do it as cheaply as you can at a decent school---there are many in most states that are great and affordable. Life will be much easier when your starting salary is $45K if you don't have $80K+ in student loans hanging over your head.

I am not agreeing with Mike Rowe...but, there are tons of headlines of companies no longer caring about a degree vs. showing they are qualified for the job. You can decide you don't believe Deloitte, Google, etc....but publicly they are claiming a 4-year degree is no longer required.

Here are several recent articles:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-degree-job-requirement/
https://www.intelligent.com/nearly-half-of-companies-plan-to-eliminate-bachelors-degree-requirements-in-2024/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/consumer/article-12806053/companies-ax-college-bachelors-degree-requirements-walmart.html

Well we're in a labor shortage now. Who do you think they will hire when the tables turn back and unemployment rates rise? The high school graduate or the college graduate?

Labor shortage in what fields? Many are just going to hire the immigrant who is willing to work 13 hours a day with no benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a bunch of BS. Sure, you don’t need to go to college to be a millionaire, but by any other measure a degree from a good to great college produces the knowledge that has built the entire industrial and digital economy. Mr. Rowe should count his lucky stars that he lives in a society where smart and curious people want to learn and produce real advances in society, not just start the next landscape company or pizza chain. Not that the latter are inferior choices, but they are not the source of technological advancement.

Get real. The average college graduate is going to be a worker bee, doing what they’re told for 40 hours a week, often in a job which bears little to no resemblance to their field of study. So neither will they be the source of technological advancement. (Not to mention the implication that ALL technological advancement is inherently good… I strongly disagree, but that is an entirely separate conversation.)

NP. And the average non college grad is going to likely work more hours for less pay.

And those non-college grads making good money (in the trades) will be in a job that will likely be taxing on their physical state, thereby making it hard to continue doing that 50 hours a week when they are 40+. So if they haven't figured out how to move up in management at that HVAC company (or be the owner), they might be switching jobs at 45 without a college degree.
Even if my kid was interested in a trade (which I would fully support), I would encourage them to do at least a 2 year AA degree along with the trade, ideally in business to give them the tools for being more than "just a worker"

[Anonymous]

I think the secret is Ivies are not actually more challenging than any college. The hard part is getting in. My experience was ridiculously easy. You have to show up and do the work, be organized, but none of it was difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mike Rowe is a Koch Brothers funded grifter-actor.

Notice that he never extols the benefits of a union for tradesmen, which is how they have typically made good money & ensured on the job safety.

Did you fail to see who is supporting the Tear the Paper Ceiling initiative?

- the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation (along with a dozen or more left-leaning groups).

You cannot dismiss this trend as right wing.

How does that negate what I wrote? He doesn't support blue collar workers getting good wages and safe working conditions.

“Pro-Worker” Mike Rowe Mysteriously Silent as Rail Workers Fight For Sick Leave, Better Pay

https://www.columnblog.com/p/pro-worker-mike-rowe-mysteriously

He's an actor who supports the guy in the $80K pick up truck, Patagonia vest and slacks who owns the construction site and counts the money in Excel.

[Anonymous]

This is the new right wing talking point. I have family who tell me it's "dangerous" and "irresponsible" to send children (especially white males) to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mike Rowe is a Koch Brothers funded grifter-actor.

Notice that he never extols the benefits of a union for tradesmen, which is how they have typically made good money & ensured on the job safety.

Did you fail to see who is supporting the Tear the Paper Ceiling initiative?

- the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation (along with a dozen or more left-leaning groups).

You cannot dismiss this trend as right wing.

How does that negate what I wrote? He doesn't support blue collar workers getting good wages and safe working conditions.

“Pro-Worker” Mike Rowe Mysteriously Silent as Rail Workers Fight For Sick Leave, Better Pay

https://www.columnblog.com/p/pro-worker-mike-rowe-mysteriously

He's an actor who supports the guy in the $80K pick up truck, Patagonia vest and slacks who owns the construction site and counts the money in Excel.

It negates what you wrote because you specifically alleged the Koch Brothers (who are on the right) are behind Rowe and the movement to diminish college degrees, when in fact, the movement to

- Tear the Paper Ceiling (see link above)

Is sponsored by people on the LEFT, including the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation.

If you agree with “trashing college degrees,” then talk to the left about it; they are the ones (along with republican Rowe) who are trashing degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the new right wing talking point. I have family who tell me it's "dangerous" and "irresponsible" to send children (especially white males) to college.

Folks come at this from different angles. If you go out to SFO there are plenty of people working in tech with no college degree. Both college drop-outs (that's why you go to Stanford...to drop out) and people who skipped college entirely.

Certainly, those people aren't claiming college is "dangerous" or will indoctrinate you, but they also don't care that much about why you know what you know. They just care that you know it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the new right wing talking point. I have family who tell me it's "dangerous" and "irresponsible" to send children (especially white males) to college.

WRONG.

Wrong again, troll.

It is a left-wing talking point, if anything: https://www.tearthepaperceiling.org/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My experience was ridiculously easy. You have to show up and do the work, be organized, but none of it was difficult.

What was your major?

You're pretty much describing something we call "life".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the new right wing talking point. I have family who tell me it's "dangerous" and "irresponsible" to send children (especially white males) to college.

WRONG.

Wrong again, troll.

It is a left-wing talking point, if anything: https://www.tearthepaperceiling.org/

Take it from Pew. In 2019:

"The share of Americans saying colleges and universities have a negative effect has increased by 12 percentage points since 2012. The increase in negative views has come almost entirely from Republicans and independents who lean Republican. From 2015 to 2019, the share saying colleges have a negative effect on the country went from 37% to 59% among this group. Over that same period, the views of Democrats and independents who lean Democratic have remained largely stable and overwhelmingly positive."

and...

"In late 2018, 84% of Democrats and independents who lean to the Democratic Party said they have a great deal or a fair amount of confidence in college and university professors to act in the best interests of the public. Only about half (48%) of Republicans and Republican leaners said the same. In fact, 19% of Republicans said they have no confidence at all in college professors to act in the public interest. And in early 2019, 87% of Democrats – but fewer than half (44%) of Republicans – said colleges and universities are open to a wide range of opinions and viewpoints."

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/08/19/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education-2/

Also, funny how none of Dem leaning family is concerned with me sending my kids to college. Just the Trump thumpers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the new right wing talking point. I have family who tell me it's "dangerous" and "irresponsible" to send children (especially white males) to college.

WRONG.

Wrong again, troll.

It is a left-wing talking point, if anything: https://www.tearthepaperceiling.org/

Take it from Pew. In 2019:

"The share of Americans saying colleges and universities have a negative effect has increased by 12 percentage points since 2012. The increase in negative views has come almost entirely from Republicans and independents who lean Republican. From 2015 to 2019, the share saying colleges have a negative effect on the country went from 37% to 59% among this group. Over that same period, the views of Democrats and independents who lean Democratic have remained largely stable and overwhelmingly positive."

and...

"In late 2018, 84% of Democrats and independents who lean to the Democratic Party said they have a great deal or a fair amount of confidence in college and university professors to act in the best interests of the public. Only about half (48%) of Republicans and Republican leaners said the same. In fact, 19% of Republicans said they have no confidence at all in college professors to act in the public interest. And in early 2019, 87% of Democrats – but fewer than half (44%) of Republicans – said colleges and universities are open to a wide range of opinions and viewpoints."

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/08/19/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education-2/

Also, funny how none of Dem leaning family is concerned with me sending my kids to college. Just the Trump thumpers.

You are still missing the point.

What your evidence argues is the imbalance of political thought among academics on campus in the US.

That fact is beyond dispute: college faculty overwhelmingly skews left, and you have to agree that’s a problem. Their concept is simple: “We advance the principles of open inquiry, viewpoint diversity, and constructive disagreement to improve higher education and academic research.”

It is a known, stubborn problem thr Heterodoxy Academy is trying to fight:

https://heterodoxacademy.org/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the new right wing talking point. I have family who tell me it's "dangerous" and "irresponsible" to send children (especially white males) to college.

WRONG.

Wrong again, troll.

It is a left-wing talking point, if anything: https://www.tearthepaperceiling.org/

Take it from Pew. In 2019:

"The share of Americans saying colleges and universities have a negative effect has increased by 12 percentage points since 2012. The increase in negative views has come almost entirely from Republicans and independents who lean Republican. From 2015 to 2019, the share saying colleges have a negative effect on the country went from 37% to 59% among this group. Over that same period, the views of Democrats and independents who lean Democratic have remained largely stable and overwhelmingly positive."

and...

"In late 2018, 84% of Democrats and independents who lean to the Democratic Party said they have a great deal or a fair amount of confidence in college and university professors to act in the best interests of the public. Only about half (48%) of Republicans and Republican leaners said the same. In fact, 19% of Republicans said they have no confidence at all in college professors to act in the public interest. And in early 2019, 87% of Democrats – but fewer than half (44%) of Republicans – said colleges and universities are open to a wide range of opinions and viewpoints."

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/08/19/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education-2/

Also, funny how none of Dem leaning family is concerned with me sending my kids to college. Just the Trump thumpers.

You are still missing the point.

What your evidence argues is the imbalance of political thought among academics on campus in the US.

That fact is beyond dispute: college faculty overwhelmingly skews left, and you have to agree that’s a problem. Their concept is simple: “We advance the principles of open inquiry, viewpoint diversity, and constructive disagreement to improve higher education and academic research.”

It is a known, stubborn problem thr Heterodoxy Academy is trying to fight:

https://heterodoxacademy.org/

DP.

The right is anti-science, anti-evidence, pro-hate, and fond of conspiracy theories. The fact that college faculty reject the party of Chloroquine, calling LGBTQ people “groomers”, imaginary voter fraud, and “it snowed so global warming is a myth” is not a problem. Reality has a well known liberal bias.

[Anonymous]

I read an interesting article about how the welder making 100k is largely a myth. that's something like the top 5% of all welders.

I think trades are great, but wish we gave kids greater transparency. Ditto humanities majors, ditto design majors, ditto CS majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the new right wing talking point. I have family who tell me it's "dangerous" and "irresponsible" to send children (especially white males) to college.

WRONG.

Wrong again, troll.

It is a left-wing talking point, if anything: https://www.tearthepaperceiling.org/

Take it from Pew. In 2019:

"The share of Americans saying colleges and universities have a negative effect has increased by 12 percentage points since 2012. The increase in negative views has come almost entirely from Republicans and independents who lean Republican. From 2015 to 2019, the share saying colleges have a negative effect on the country went from 37% to 59% among this group. Over that same period, the views of Democrats and independents who lean Democratic have remained largely stable and overwhelmingly positive."

and...

"In late 2018, 84% of Democrats and independents who lean to the Democratic Party said they have a great deal or a fair amount of confidence in college and university professors to act in the best interests of the public. Only about half (48%) of Republicans and Republican leaners said the same. In fact, 19% of Republicans said they have no confidence at all in college professors to act in the public interest. And in early 2019, 87% of Democrats – but fewer than half (44%) of Republicans – said colleges and universities are open to a wide range of opinions and viewpoints."

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/08/19/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education-2/

Also, funny how none of Dem leaning family is concerned with me sending my kids to college. Just the Trump thumpers.

You are still missing the point.

What your evidence argues is the imbalance of political thought among academics on campus in the US.

That fact is beyond dispute: college faculty overwhelmingly skews left, and you have to agree that’s a problem. Their concept is simple: “We advance the principles of open inquiry, viewpoint diversity, and constructive disagreement to improve higher education and academic research.”

It is a known, stubborn problem thr Heterodoxy Academy is trying to fight:

https://heterodoxacademy.org/

DP.

The right is anti-science, anti-evidence, pro-hate, and fond of conspiracy theories. The fact that college faculty reject the party of Chloroquine, calling LGBTQ people “groomers”, imaginary voter fraud, and “it snowed so global warming is a myth” is not a problem. Reality has a well known liberal bias.

THIS^^^

College faculty are highly educated people. They tend to believe facts, science, evidence, etc. Which apparently makes you a "liberal" nowadays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read an interesting article about how the welder making 100k is largely a myth. that's something like the top 5% of all welders.

I think trades are great, but wish we gave kids greater transparency. Ditto humanities majors, ditto design majors, ditto CS majors.

Trades are great, and yes some can make excellent money. But the majority are not. While you might pay your plumber $150/hour from the momement they leave their previous job until they are done at your home, the guy doing the work is most likely NOT getting $150/hr. They are getting $30-40 (unless it is a very small local company or you live in a VHCOL area). Also keep in mind, that most trade jobs are very hard on your body---cannot imagine wanting to do those jobs at 45+. So what do you do when your body no longer allows you to work 8+ hours in the trade?