Schools that aren’t grim but are still a good education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any good schools left that are actually fun and aren’t relentlessly grim? By “fun,” I don’t mean just pure parties (though that’s part of it). I also mean really engaging intellectual stimulation, the ability to actually have debates as opposed to heavily censored speech, parties that don’t require signed releases at the door, dorms that aren’t as quiet as crypts, students that can hear an opinion they don’t like without having tantrums, and a diversity of smart quirky kids with widely varied interests, not just armies of ruthless Tracy Flicks. In other words, speaking as someone who went to Stanford back when it was actually fun, not this:

https://stanforddaily.com/2022/10/24/inside-stanfords-war-on-fun-tensions-mount-over-universitys-handling-of-social-life/

My kid is in 9th grade and although an excellent student in a hard school, does not have any interest in the hoops required for Stanford admission now (and I fully support that; Stanford is insufferable now from everything I hear). By the same token, the Ivies are out. But I would love my kid to find a place that is fun the way that college used to be fun: yes, hard work, yes challenging academics, but also just plain fun. Does that exist any more or has that concept for college been totally destroyed?

Most of the attributes you want to avoid are significantly more common at colleges in the Northeast & California. But this being DCUM, that’s about all anybody is recommending, because they are clueless about the full range of options across the country.

Do you have any flyover state recommendations?

The OP seems to want schools where people are just living their lives with what they have, not where people feel like they in reality show competition to see who can be the most spoiled show-offy striver.

I’d start at about Purdue & work west…Iowa, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State. These are schools people on the coasts usually scoff at, but that’s sort of the point, isn’t it? To get away from the sorts of fads & obsessions that have ruined so many of the super-popular colleges.

Think about who is confident & content to go to places like this, & then think about the vane, insecure students who just HAVE to go to NYU or Brown or USC or else their world will burst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any good schools left that are actually fun and aren’t relentlessly grim? By “fun,” I don’t mean just pure parties (though that’s part of it). I also mean really engaging intellectual stimulation, the ability to actually have debates as opposed to heavily censored speech, parties that don’t require signed releases at the door, dorms that aren’t as quiet as crypts, students that can hear an opinion they don’t like without having tantrums, and a diversity of smart quirky kids with widely varied interests, not just armies of ruthless Tracy Flicks. In other words, speaking as someone who went to Stanford back when it was actually fun, not this:

https://stanforddaily.com/2022/10/24/inside-stanfords-war-on-fun-tensions-mount-over-universitys-handling-of-social-life/

My kid is in 9th grade and although an excellent student in a hard school, does not have any interest in the hoops required for Stanford admission now (and I fully support that; Stanford is insufferable now from everything I hear). By the same token, the Ivies are out. But I would love my kid to find a place that is fun the way that college used to be fun: yes, hard work, yes challenging academics, but also just plain fun. Does that exist any more or has that concept for college been totally destroyed?

Most of the attributes you want to avoid are significantly more common at colleges in the Northeast & California. But this being DCUM, that’s about all anybody is recommending, because they are clueless about the full range of options across the country.

Do you have any flyover state recommendations?

The OP seems to want schools where people are just living their lives with what they have, not where people feel like they in reality show competition to see who can be the most spoiled show-offy striver.

I’d start at about Purdue & work west…Iowa, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State. These are schools people on the coasts usually scoff at, but that’s sort of the point, isn’t it? To get away from the sorts of fads & obsessions that have ruined so many of the super-popular colleges.

Think about who is confident & content to go to places like this, & then think about the vane, insecure students who just HAVE to go to NYU or Brown or USC or else their world will burst.

And then think about the vast number of stereotypes you've infused into your accounts when it is impossible that you have direct lived experience with all the schools mentioned--not to mention all the students at them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP. I’m in California. Cal and UCLA definitely don’t have reputations as being fun any more. But UCSB is still hanging on.

My kid is okay with going anywhere. DC is a smart kid with excellent grades who is very social, athletic (but not recruit level), loves debate, loves robotics, mostly loves having fun.

My DD is a senior at UCLA and is having the time of her life. Seriously - she couldn't have had a better college experience. Even with her first year on-line with the whole campus closed. She moved into an off-campus apartment with five girls and made a ton of friends that year. She has close friends at Cal and UCSB and they're having a blast as well.

That's so nice to know! If your child is interested in going to CA, UC San Diego might offer a similar experience and has a spectacularly beautiful campus, and UC Santa Cruz is also in a gorgeous part of the world with lots of fun things to do. Also, OP, people are talking on the CTCL thread about SLACs, so you might want to look over there. The ones in the Pacific Northwest all sound like places a student could really enjoy. I think they've discussed Reed, Willamette, the University of Puget Sound, Whitman, Evergreen State, and Lewis & Clark (not on the CTCL list, but the same sort of thing).

UCSD has always been a grinder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A state school in a blue state. Where education is valued and they understand professors need to lead thought provoking discussions without the fear of being sued or fired.

Sounds more like a red state university.

Can you provide a cite for that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe one of the less intense SLACs? Middlebury, Bowdoin?

What echo chamber have you been hiding in for the past few decades?

Did you miss the part about wanting to be able to talk about things without the thought police canceling you?

At Middlebury & Bowdoin each kid is one sombrero away from having his life ruined, & good luck trying to hear a conservative guest speaker.

One sombrero? Really?

[Anonymous]

GMU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any good schools left that are actually fun and aren’t relentlessly grim? By “fun,” I don’t mean just pure parties (though that’s part of it). I also mean really engaging intellectual stimulation, the ability to actually have debates as opposed to heavily censored speech, parties that don’t require signed releases at the door, dorms that aren’t as quiet as crypts, students that can hear an opinion they don’t like without having tantrums, and a diversity of smart quirky kids with widely varied interests, not just armies of ruthless Tracy Flicks. In other words, speaking as someone who went to Stanford back when it was actually fun, not this:

https://stanforddaily.com/2022/10/24/inside-stanfords-war-on-fun-tensions-mount-over-universitys-handling-of-social-life/

My kid is in 9th grade and although an excellent student in a hard school, does not have any interest in the hoops required for Stanford admission now (and I fully support that; Stanford is insufferable now from everything I hear). By the same token, the Ivies are out. But I would love my kid to find a place that is fun the way that college used to be fun: yes, hard work, yes challenging academics, but also just plain fun. Does that exist any more or has that concept for college been totally destroyed?

Did you have "fun" in college? How about your alma mater to start with?

OP went to Stanford, which has lost its fun.

I am OP and yes, this is unfortunately correct.

I had such an amazing time there, but I recently visited Stanford and walked around the campus on a Friday night. I was absolutely shocked at how dead-quiet it was, not a single sound to be heard, nobody out and about. A crypt would have had more life.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!

Hmm. I was at Harvard a few weeks ago and there were plenty of people out about having a good time. Maybe this is a Stanford thing?

Pffft. It's a Fox News thing.

I’m OP and I’ve literally never seen Fox News except when it’s on in a waiting room. And I’ve been a registered Democrat my whole life.

But nonetheless, Stanford was shockingly quiet when I visited, and has been the last few times. I remember Friday nights full of kids running around the campus, going from dorm to dorm, hanging out at (and in!) the fountains, etc. I remember CoHo being so crowded that there was a line out the door, with lively intellectual conversations happening at tables around us and live music. Meanwhile the last time I was there, I walked straight into a dead-silent CoHo to get a drink. It was filled with kids with AirPods in their ears, silently working. It might as well have been Green. It was a depressing scene.

This isn’t just me. It’s bad enough that the student newspaper is writing about it. And there’s been a lot of discussion nationally about the sharp rise in depression and other mental illnesses of students on campuses across the country, particularly elite ones. I wish that everything wouldn’t be so political because I am not trying to make a political point, but I do not want my kids to go to college in a grim, soulless, relentlessly competitive environment with kids who never learned how to have fun. Part of the most important part of a college education is learning to hold your own intellectually and socially in a casual, fun environment. That’s as much as a skill as one’s major.

DP. Sounded pretty Fox News-like to me too. The problem is that you made sweeping judgments from one experience at one school with some fairly histrionic, baiting language. It wasn't posed as sincere question. Whatever.

Do you believe the sharp rise in depression, reported loneliness, self-harm, and other serious mental health issues on campuses is made up? You know that it is all well-documented, right?

Try not to see the whole world through your partisan lens, please. The relentless insistence on turning every single conversation into partisan politics is probably part of what is driving the misery on campuses.

Pot calling the kettle black. But, nice try to spin it. True politician there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe one of the less intense SLACs? Middlebury, Bowdoin?

What echo chamber have you been hiding in for the past few decades?

Did you miss the part about wanting to be able to talk about things without the thought police canceling you?

At Middlebury & Bowdoin each kid is one sombrero away from having his life ruined, & good luck trying to hear a conservative guest speaker.

One sombrero? Really?

Really.

https://www.thefire.org/news/bowdoin-college-when-it-comes-sombreros-do-we-say-not-we-do-or-well-kick-you-out-your-dorm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any good schools left that are actually fun and aren’t relentlessly grim? By “fun,” I don’t mean just pure parties (though that’s part of it). I also mean really engaging intellectual stimulation, the ability to actually have debates as opposed to heavily censored speech, parties that don’t require signed releases at the door, dorms that aren’t as quiet as crypts, students that can hear an opinion they don’t like without having tantrums, and a diversity of smart quirky kids with widely varied interests, not just armies of ruthless Tracy Flicks. In other words, speaking as someone who went to Stanford back when it was actually fun, not this:

https://stanforddaily.com/2022/10/24/inside-stanfords-war-on-fun-tensions-mount-over-universitys-handling-of-social-life/

My kid is in 9th grade and although an excellent student in a hard school, does not have any interest in the hoops required for Stanford admission now (and I fully support that; Stanford is insufferable now from everything I hear). By the same token, the Ivies are out. But I would love my kid to find a place that is fun the way that college used to be fun: yes, hard work, yes challenging academics, but also just plain fun. Does that exist any more or has that concept for college been totally destroyed?

Did you have "fun" in college? How about your alma mater to start with?

OP went to Stanford, which has lost its fun.

I am OP and yes, this is unfortunately correct.

I had such an amazing time there, but I recently visited Stanford and walked around the campus on a Friday night. I was absolutely shocked at how dead-quiet it was, not a single sound to be heard, nobody out and about. A crypt would have had more life.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!

Hmm. I was at Harvard a few weeks ago and there were plenty of people out about having a good time. Maybe this is a Stanford thing?

Pffft. It's a Fox News thing.

I’m OP and I’ve literally never seen Fox News except when it’s on in a waiting room. And I’ve been a registered Democrat my whole life.

But nonetheless, Stanford was shockingly quiet when I visited, and has been the last few times. I remember Friday nights full of kids running around the campus, going from dorm to dorm, hanging out at (and in!) the fountains, etc. I remember CoHo being so crowded that there was a line out the door, with lively intellectual conversations happening at tables around us and live music. Meanwhile the last time I was there, I walked straight into a dead-silent CoHo to get a drink. It was filled with kids with AirPods in their ears, silently working. It might as well have been Green. It was a depressing scene.

This isn’t just me. It’s bad enough that the student newspaper is writing about it. And there’s been a lot of discussion nationally about the sharp rise in depression and other mental illnesses of students on campuses across the country, particularly elite ones. I wish that everything wouldn’t be so political because I am not trying to make a political point, but I do not want my kids to go to college in a grim, soulless, relentlessly competitive environment with kids who never learned how to have fun. Part of the most important part of a college education is learning to hold your own intellectually and socially in a casual, fun environment. That’s as much as a skill as one’s major.

DP. Sounded pretty Fox News-like to me too. The problem is that you made sweeping judgments from one experience at one school with some fairly histrionic, baiting language. It wasn't posed as sincere question. Whatever.

Do you believe the sharp rise in depression, reported loneliness, self-harm, and other serious mental health issues on campuses is made up? You know that it is all well-documented, right?

Try not to see the whole world through your partisan lens, please. The relentless insistence on turning every single conversation into partisan politics is probably part of what is driving the misery on campuses.

Pot calling the kettle black. But, nice try to spin it. True politician there.

So when called out with hard evidence of unhappiness in campuses, your reaction is to lash out? That seems mature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any good schools left that are actually fun and aren’t relentlessly grim? By “fun,” I don’t mean just pure parties (though that’s part of it). I also mean really engaging intellectual stimulation, the ability to actually have debates as opposed to heavily censored speech, parties that don’t require signed releases at the door, dorms that aren’t as quiet as crypts, students that can hear an opinion they don’t like without having tantrums, and a diversity of smart quirky kids with widely varied interests, not just armies of ruthless Tracy Flicks. In other words, speaking as someone who went to Stanford back when it was actually fun, not this:

https://stanforddaily.com/2022/10/24/inside-stanfords-war-on-fun-tensions-mount-over-universitys-handling-of-social-life/

My kid is in 9th grade and although an excellent student in a hard school, does not have any interest in the hoops required for Stanford admission now (and I fully support that; Stanford is insufferable now from everything I hear). By the same token, the Ivies are out. But I would love my kid to find a place that is fun the way that college used to be fun: yes, hard work, yes challenging academics, but also just plain fun. Does that exist any more or has that concept for college been totally destroyed?

Most of the attributes you want to avoid are significantly more common at colleges in the Northeast & California. But this being DCUM, that’s about all anybody is recommending, because they are clueless about the full range of options across the country.

Do you have any flyover state recommendations?

The OP seems to want schools where people are just living their lives with what they have, not where people feel like they in reality show competition to see who can be the most spoiled show-offy striver.

I’d start at about Purdue & work west…Iowa, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State. These are schools people on the coasts usually scoff at, but that’s sort of the point, isn’t it? To get away from the sorts of fads & obsessions that have ruined so many of the super-popular colleges.

Think about who is confident & content to go to places like this, & then think about the vane, insecure students who just HAVE to go to NYU or Brown or USC or else their world will burst.

And then think about the vast number of stereotypes you've infused into your accounts when it is impossible that you have direct lived experience with all the schools mentioned--not to mention all the students at them.

There’s a game idiots like you play: if somebody gives a generality, you say you want specifics. If somebody gives specifics, you say they are just anecdotes. And the pathetic thing is you think you win.

I gave my views after having lived, studied, & taught all over the country & in several foreign countries. If you have a view, why don’t you state it, instead of sitting on the sidelines acting smug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe one of the less intense SLACs? Middlebury, Bowdoin?

Colgate.

+1
Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell

Not Lehigh. In fact, that story reminded me of Lehigh a few years ago. The new president is better, but the fact is, Lehigh went from allowing taps in the fraternity houses to closing down the majority of the houses, leaving kids to party in ancient basements in off-campus housing. The LU PD are merciless. Don’t get caught drinking there.

The only thing Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette and Bucknell have in common is UMC, smart, hardworking kids who drink way too much.

Not sure that doesn't fit what OP is looking for but I could have misread.
As a Lehigh alum during the latter part of APG's reign I would say things socially had started to go downhill but it had been absolutely insane for a while before that. It's just not the climate at any top schools now. Still a great time, ancient off campus basements or not. At any of my visits at other schools the parties were definitely lacking in comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any good schools left that are actually fun and aren’t relentlessly grim? By “fun,” I don’t mean just pure parties (though that’s part of it). I also mean really engaging intellectual stimulation, the ability to actually have debates as opposed to heavily censored speech, parties that don’t require signed releases at the door, dorms that aren’t as quiet as crypts, students that can hear an opinion they don’t like without having tantrums, and a diversity of smart quirky kids with widely varied interests, not just armies of ruthless Tracy Flicks. In other words, speaking as someone who went to Stanford back when it was actually fun, not this:

https://stanforddaily.com/2022/10/24/inside-stanfords-war-on-fun-tensions-mount-over-universitys-handling-of-social-life/

My kid is in 9th grade and although an excellent student in a hard school, does not have any interest in the hoops required for Stanford admission now (and I fully support that; Stanford is insufferable now from everything I hear). By the same token, the Ivies are out. But I would love my kid to find a place that is fun the way that college used to be fun: yes, hard work, yes challenging academics, but also just plain fun. Does that exist any more or has that concept for college been totally destroyed?

Did you have "fun" in college? How about your alma mater to start with?

OP went to Stanford, which has lost its fun.

I am OP and yes, this is unfortunately correct.

I had such an amazing time there, but I recently visited Stanford and walked around the campus on a Friday night. I was absolutely shocked at how dead-quiet it was, not a single sound to be heard, nobody out and about. A crypt would have had more life.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!

Hmm. I was at Harvard a few weeks ago and there were plenty of people out about having a good time. Maybe this is a Stanford thing?

Pffft. It's a Fox News thing.

I’m OP and I’ve literally never seen Fox News except when it’s on in a waiting room. And I’ve been a registered Democrat my whole life.

But nonetheless, Stanford was shockingly quiet when I visited, and has been the last few times. I remember Friday nights full of kids running around the campus, going from dorm to dorm, hanging out at (and in!) the fountains, etc. I remember CoHo being so crowded that there was a line out the door, with lively intellectual conversations happening at tables around us and live music. Meanwhile the last time I was there, I walked straight into a dead-silent CoHo to get a drink. It was filled with kids with AirPods in their ears, silently working. It might as well have been Green. It was a depressing scene.

This isn’t just me. It’s bad enough that the student newspaper is writing about it. And there’s been a lot of discussion nationally about the sharp rise in depression and other mental illnesses of students on campuses across the country, particularly elite ones. I wish that everything wouldn’t be so political because I am not trying to make a political point, but I do not want my kids to go to college in a grim, soulless, relentlessly competitive environment with kids who never learned how to have fun. Part of the most important part of a college education is learning to hold your own intellectually and socially in a casual, fun environment. That’s as much as a skill as one’s major.

DP. Sounded pretty Fox News-like to me too. The problem is that you made sweeping judgments from one experience at one school with some fairly histrionic, baiting language. It wasn't posed as sincere question. Whatever.

Do you believe the sharp rise in depression, reported loneliness, self-harm, and other serious mental health issues on campuses is made up? You know that it is all well-documented, right?

Try not to see the whole world through your partisan lens, please. The relentless insistence on turning every single conversation into partisan politics is probably part of what is driving the misery on campuses.

Pot calling the kettle black. But, nice try to spin it. True politician there.

So when called out with hard evidence of unhappiness in campuses, your reaction is to lash out? That seems mature.

Hard evidence of unhappiness? I saw no cites and no evidence. And to suggest that unhappiness or anxiety is somehow linked to left leaning colleges and not say, increased competition or pandemic issues is just ignorant. Even if you are right about unhappiness, you've confused correlation with causation. What a dolt. A partisan dolt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any good schools left that are actually fun and aren’t relentlessly grim? By “fun,” I don’t mean just pure parties (though that’s part of it). I also mean really engaging intellectual stimulation, the ability to actually have debates as opposed to heavily censored speech, parties that don’t require signed releases at the door, dorms that aren’t as quiet as crypts, students that can hear an opinion they don’t like without having tantrums, and a diversity of smart quirky kids with widely varied interests, not just armies of ruthless Tracy Flicks. In other words, speaking as someone who went to Stanford back when it was actually fun, not this:

https://stanforddaily.com/2022/10/24/inside-stanfords-war-on-fun-tensions-mount-over-universitys-handling-of-social-life/

My kid is in 9th grade and although an excellent student in a hard school, does not have any interest in the hoops required for Stanford admission now (and I fully support that; Stanford is insufferable now from everything I hear). By the same token, the Ivies are out. But I would love my kid to find a place that is fun the way that college used to be fun: yes, hard work, yes challenging academics, but also just plain fun. Does that exist any more or has that concept for college been totally destroyed?

Most of the attributes you want to avoid are significantly more common at colleges in the Northeast & California. But this being DCUM, that’s about all anybody is recommending, because they are clueless about the full range of options across the country.

Do you have any flyover state recommendations?

The OP seems to want schools where people are just living their lives with what they have, not where people feel like they in reality show competition to see who can be the most spoiled show-offy striver.

I’d start at about Purdue & work west…Iowa, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State. These are schools people on the coasts usually scoff at, but that’s sort of the point, isn’t it? To get away from the sorts of fads & obsessions that have ruined so many of the super-popular colleges.

Think about who is confident & content to go to places like this, & then think about the vane, insecure students who just HAVE to go to NYU or Brown or USC or else their world will burst.

And then think about the vast number of stereotypes you've infused into your accounts when it is impossible that you have direct lived experience with all the schools mentioned--not to mention all the students at them.

There’s a game idiots like you play: if somebody gives a generality, you say you want specifics. If somebody gives specifics, you say they are just anecdotes. And the pathetic thing is you think you win.

I gave my views after having lived, studied, & taught all over the country & in several foreign countries. If you have a view, why don’t you state it, instead of sitting on the sidelines acting smug.

NP. Your views are ignorant. Have you really lived and studied at Brown, NYU and USC? Your descriptions of students sound nothing like what I have actually experienced. Maybe a few are directionally challenged (vane?), but most are very down to earth, kind and friendly. So, if you were suggesting that they are vain (what a broad assessment of diverse student bodies), you are largely inaccurate.