Schools that aren’t grim but are still a good education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Claremont McKenna

Why?

The 5Cs are “wet” campuses meaning that the schools throw parties in gorgeous courtyards, etc. It’s part of the residential vibe and surprisingly fun - even upperclassmen go. Also, each of the schools are so different that you can have a hippie Thursday at Pitzer, an on campus party at Scripps near a fountain and then grind at a CMC party that feels like UVa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe one of the less intense SLACs? Middlebury, Bowdoin?

Colgate.

+1
Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell

[Anonymous]

Tulane, ASU, university of Hawaii, Pepperdine, Coastal Carolina

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are there any good schools left that are actually fun and aren’t relentlessly grim? By “fun,” I don’t mean just pure parties (though that’s part of it). I also mean really engaging intellectual stimulation, the ability to actually have debates as opposed to heavily censored speech, parties that don’t require signed releases at the door, dorms that aren’t as quiet as crypts, students that can hear an opinion they don’t like without having tantrums, and a diversity of smart quirky kids with widely varied interests, not just armies of ruthless Tracy Flicks. In other words, speaking as someone who went to Stanford back when it was actually fun, not this:

https://stanforddaily.com/2022/10/24/inside-stanfords-war-on-fun-tensions-mount-over-universitys-handling-of-social-life/

My kid is in 9th grade and although an excellent student in a hard school, does not have any interest in the hoops required for Stanford admission now (and I fully support that; Stanford is insufferable now from everything I hear). By the same token, the Ivies are out. But I would love my kid to find a place that is fun the way that college used to be fun: yes, hard work, yes challenging academics, but also just plain fun. Does that exist any more or has that concept for college been totally destroyed?

Most of the attributes you want to avoid are significantly more common at colleges in the Northeast & California. But this being DCUM, that’s about all anybody is recommending, because they are clueless about the full range of options across the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any good schools left that are actually fun and aren’t relentlessly grim? By “fun,” I don’t mean just pure parties (though that’s part of it). I also mean really engaging intellectual stimulation, the ability to actually have debates as opposed to heavily censored speech, parties that don’t require signed releases at the door, dorms that aren’t as quiet as crypts, students that can hear an opinion they don’t like without having tantrums, and a diversity of smart quirky kids with widely varied interests, not just armies of ruthless Tracy Flicks. In other words, speaking as someone who went to Stanford back when it was actually fun, not this:

https://stanforddaily.com/2022/10/24/inside-stanfords-war-on-fun-tensions-mount-over-universitys-handling-of-social-life/

My kid is in 9th grade and although an excellent student in a hard school, does not have any interest in the hoops required for Stanford admission now (and I fully support that; Stanford is insufferable now from everything I hear). By the same token, the Ivies are out. But I would love my kid to find a place that is fun the way that college used to be fun: yes, hard work, yes challenging academics, but also just plain fun. Does that exist any more or has that concept for college been totally destroyed?

Most of the attributes you want to avoid are significantly more common at colleges in the Northeast & California. But this being DCUM, that’s about all anybody is recommending, because they are clueless about the full range of options across the country.

Do you have any flyover state recommendations?

[Anonymous]

your kid is in 9th grade, please let them be a kid and not worry about things.

They will end up where they end up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Claremont McKenna

Why?

+1000

Smart kids, strong campus life/social scene, things like the Ath or majors like PPE promoting discussion.

[Anonymous]

PP. I didn’t quote right, but meant my comment to apply to CMC. Also agree with previous poster about SoCal vibe and on campus parties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe one of the less intense SLACs? Middlebury, Bowdoin?

I was thinking the same. Most SLACs and good state schools like USC, UVA, Mich…
Isn’t NYU supposed to be fun?

I think NYU is fun if you are extremely wealthy. The kids I know who go there are living a pretty glamorous life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any good schools left that are actually fun and aren’t relentlessly grim? By “fun,” I don’t mean just pure parties (though that’s part of it). I also mean really engaging intellectual stimulation, the ability to actually have debates as opposed to heavily censored speech, parties that don’t require signed releases at the door, dorms that aren’t as quiet as crypts, students that can hear an opinion they don’t like without having tantrums, and a diversity of smart quirky kids with widely varied interests, not just armies of ruthless Tracy Flicks. In other words, speaking as someone who went to Stanford back when it was actually fun, not this:

https://stanforddaily.com/2022/10/24/inside-stanfords-war-on-fun-tensions-mount-over-universitys-handling-of-social-life/

My kid is in 9th grade and although an excellent student in a hard school, does not have any interest in the hoops required for Stanford admission now (and I fully support that; Stanford is insufferable now from everything I hear). By the same token, the Ivies are out. But I would love my kid to find a place that is fun the way that college used to be fun: yes, hard work, yes challenging academics, but also just plain fun. Does that exist any more or has that concept for college been totally destroyed?

Did you have "fun" in college? How about your alma mater to start with?

OP went to Stanford, which has lost its fun.

I am OP and yes, this is unfortunately correct.

I had such an amazing time there, but I recently visited Stanford and walked around the campus on a Friday night. I was absolutely shocked at how dead-quiet it was, not a single sound to be heard, nobody out and about. A crypt would have had more life.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!

Hmm. I was at Harvard a few weeks ago and there were plenty of people out about having a good time. Maybe this is a Stanford thing?

Pffft. It's a Fox News thing.

I’m OP and I’ve literally never seen Fox News except when it’s on in a waiting room. And I’ve been a registered Democrat my whole life.

But nonetheless, Stanford was shockingly quiet when I visited, and has been the last few times. I remember Friday nights full of kids running around the campus, going from dorm to dorm, hanging out at (and in!) the fountains, etc. I remember CoHo being so crowded that there was a line out the door, with lively intellectual conversations happening at tables around us and live music. Meanwhile the last time I was there, I walked straight into a dead-silent CoHo to get a drink. It was filled with kids with AirPods in their ears, silently working. It might as well have been Green. It was a depressing scene.

This isn’t just me. It’s bad enough that the student newspaper is writing about it. And there’s been a lot of discussion nationally about the sharp rise in depression and other mental illnesses of students on campuses across the country, particularly elite ones. I wish that everything wouldn’t be so political because I am not trying to make a political point, but I do not want my kids to go to college in a grim, soulless, relentlessly competitive environment with kids who never learned how to have fun. Part of the most important part of a college education is learning to hold your own intellectually and socially in a casual, fun environment. That’s as much as a skill as one’s major.

DP. Sounded pretty Fox News-like to me too. The problem is that you made sweeping judgments from one experience at one school with some fairly histrionic, baiting language. It wasn't posed as sincere question. Whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe one of the less intense SLACs? Middlebury, Bowdoin?

Colgate.

+1
Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell

Not Lehigh. In fact, that story reminded me of Lehigh a few years ago. The new president is better, but the fact is, Lehigh went from allowing taps in the fraternity houses to closing down the majority of the houses, leaving kids to party in ancient basements in off-campus housing. The LU PD are merciless. Don’t get caught drinking there.

The only thing Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette and Bucknell have in common is UMC, smart, hardworking kids who drink way too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any good schools left that are actually fun and aren’t relentlessly grim? By “fun,” I don’t mean just pure parties (though that’s part of it). I also mean really engaging intellectual stimulation, the ability to actually have debates as opposed to heavily censored speech, parties that don’t require signed releases at the door, dorms that aren’t as quiet as crypts, students that can hear an opinion they don’t like without having tantrums, and a diversity of smart quirky kids with widely varied interests, not just armies of ruthless Tracy Flicks. In other words, speaking as someone who went to Stanford back when it was actually fun, not this:

https://stanforddaily.com/2022/10/24/inside-stanfords-war-on-fun-tensions-mount-over-universitys-handling-of-social-life/

My kid is in 9th grade and although an excellent student in a hard school, does not have any interest in the hoops required for Stanford admission now (and I fully support that; Stanford is insufferable now from everything I hear). By the same token, the Ivies are out. But I would love my kid to find a place that is fun the way that college used to be fun: yes, hard work, yes challenging academics, but also just plain fun. Does that exist any more or has that concept for college been totally destroyed?

Did you have "fun" in college? How about your alma mater to start with?

OP went to Stanford, which has lost its fun.

I am OP and yes, this is unfortunately correct.

I had such an amazing time there, but I recently visited Stanford and walked around the campus on a Friday night. I was absolutely shocked at how dead-quiet it was, not a single sound to be heard, nobody out and about. A crypt would have had more life.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!

Hmm. I was at Harvard a few weeks ago and there were plenty of people out about having a good time. Maybe this is a Stanford thing?

Pffft. It's a Fox News thing.

I’m OP and I’ve literally never seen Fox News except when it’s on in a waiting room. And I’ve been a registered Democrat my whole life.

But nonetheless, Stanford was shockingly quiet when I visited, and has been the last few times. I remember Friday nights full of kids running around the campus, going from dorm to dorm, hanging out at (and in!) the fountains, etc. I remember CoHo being so crowded that there was a line out the door, with lively intellectual conversations happening at tables around us and live music. Meanwhile the last time I was there, I walked straight into a dead-silent CoHo to get a drink. It was filled with kids with AirPods in their ears, silently working. It might as well have been Green. It was a depressing scene.

This isn’t just me. It’s bad enough that the student newspaper is writing about it. And there’s been a lot of discussion nationally about the sharp rise in depression and other mental illnesses of students on campuses across the country, particularly elite ones. I wish that everything wouldn’t be so political because I am not trying to make a political point, but I do not want my kids to go to college in a grim, soulless, relentlessly competitive environment with kids who never learned how to have fun. Part of the most important part of a college education is learning to hold your own intellectually and socially in a casual, fun environment. That’s as much as a skill as one’s major.

DP. Sounded pretty Fox News-like to me too. The problem is that you made sweeping judgments from one experience at one school with some fairly histrionic, baiting language. It wasn't posed as sincere question. Whatever.

Do you believe the sharp rise in depression, reported loneliness, self-harm, and other serious mental health issues on campuses is made up? You know that it is all well-documented, right?

Try not to see the whole world through your partisan lens, please. The relentless insistence on turning every single conversation into partisan politics is probably part of what is driving the misery on campuses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any good schools left that are actually fun and aren’t relentlessly grim? By “fun,” I don’t mean just pure parties (though that’s part of it). I also mean really engaging intellectual stimulation, the ability to actually have debates as opposed to heavily censored speech, parties that don’t require signed releases at the door, dorms that aren’t as quiet as crypts, students that can hear an opinion they don’t like without having tantrums, and a diversity of smart quirky kids with widely varied interests, not just armies of ruthless Tracy Flicks. In other words, speaking as someone who went to Stanford back when it was actually fun, not this:

https://stanforddaily.com/2022/10/24/inside-stanfords-war-on-fun-tensions-mount-over-universitys-handling-of-social-life/

My kid is in 9th grade and although an excellent student in a hard school, does not have any interest in the hoops required for Stanford admission now (and I fully support that; Stanford is insufferable now from everything I hear). By the same token, the Ivies are out. But I would love my kid to find a place that is fun the way that college used to be fun: yes, hard work, yes challenging academics, but also just plain fun. Does that exist any more or has that concept for college been totally destroyed?

Did you have "fun" in college? How about your alma mater to start with?

OP went to Stanford, which has lost its fun.

I am OP and yes, this is unfortunately correct.

I had such an amazing time there, but I recently visited Stanford and walked around the campus on a Friday night. I was absolutely shocked at how dead-quiet it was, not a single sound to be heard, nobody out and about. A crypt would have had more life.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!

Hmm. I was at Harvard a few weeks ago and there were plenty of people out about having a good time. Maybe this is a Stanford thing?

Pffft. It's a Fox News thing.

I’m OP and I’ve literally never seen Fox News except when it’s on in a waiting room. And I’ve been a registered Democrat my whole life.

But nonetheless, Stanford was shockingly quiet when I visited, and has been the last few times. I remember Friday nights full of kids running around the campus, going from dorm to dorm, hanging out at (and in!) the fountains, etc. I remember CoHo being so crowded that there was a line out the door, with lively intellectual conversations happening at tables around us and live music. Meanwhile the last time I was there, I walked straight into a dead-silent CoHo to get a drink. It was filled with kids with AirPods in their ears, silently working. It might as well have been Green. It was a depressing scene.

This isn’t just me. It’s bad enough that the student newspaper is writing about it. And there’s been a lot of discussion nationally about the sharp rise in depression and other mental illnesses of students on campuses across the country, particularly elite ones. I wish that everything wouldn’t be so political because I am not trying to make a political point, but I do not want my kids to go to college in a grim, soulless, relentlessly competitive environment with kids who never learned how to have fun. Part of the most important part of a college education is learning to hold your own intellectually and socially in a casual, fun environment. That’s as much as a skill as one’s major.

I'm sure you had fun in college, but I went to a different Silicon Valley area school in the 90s, and Stanford certainly didn't have the reputation of being a fun place back then either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is my take on your question: I would look more where you are forming your ideas that college is grim and/or isn't supporting intellectual curiosity. There's a lot of critique of higher ed in the air that is pretty divorced from reality. I think people are more aware of ROI of college on careers than they used to be, but the reality is that at nearly every reasonably good not for profit school--and by that I mean the top couple hundred public and private colleges and universities not just elite ones--kids are immersed in classes and discussions that stimulate intellectual curiosity. Profs might grumble that they aren't as curious about learning as they used to be, and outsiders might look at grade inflation and think it was a lot harder to get an A in their day, but those complaints are really just generational complaints and the more pointed ones are the ones that get noticed. There are just as many ways college is more complex and difficult now than the past too (much more reading, just more disciplinary knowledge, some of the expectations for undergraduate research are more akin to what graduate students used to do just because of technological developments etc.)
Partisan politics will also always want to pull up examples for critiques of some sort or another--but stay grounded in reasonable thinking. Having 4 years to be in a group of peers, be living on your own but with lots of supports, and be immersed in taking classes in diverse areas is a pretty intellectually stimulating thing to do--so most places offer a good education that is far from grim.

I teach at an R1 school and what you're saying about complexity and difficulty is unfortunately untrue, at least when it comes to the humanities. And honestly, while there is plenty of blame to go around, the helicopter parenting that has been prevalent for the last thirty or so years bears a lot of responsibility for the insanity around competitive college admissions, grade inflation and lack of intellectual curiosity.

How long have you taught? Do you think the most recent kids seem generally unhappier? Or has it been about the same?

I posit that the lack of intellectual curiosity is driven by unhappiness and fear (sort of cancellation but more a fear of learning something that might disrupt a carefully curated world view, which is reinforced by social media algorithms that do not show dissent).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UW Madison. My son is having fun and enjoys his classes.

I agree. I am an alum from the '90s and had loads of fun. And I have returned several times over the years and the atmosphere seems very similar.