Atheism is losing popularity because it won’t own it’s own sins

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ethics and morals and the philosophies driving them have been the subject of thinkers since before the birth of Christ. See Socrates and virtue ethics. Some of you act like humans had no sense of right and wrong before Christianity.

The world before Christ was a horror show.

Socrates was writing his stuff and the average human at the time never even knew about him. He has great writings, but didn’t change anything for regular people.

Christ went out to the people, spoke to the people, ate with the people, lived as a peasant His entire life.

Jesus made people who were hurting the poor and abused stop- personally.

He was in this world and showed the world a different way.

OK that's great but my point was that moral reasoning came before Christ.

But Western civilization is based on the ideas that came from Christ.

Countries that became Christian have the same moral code.

Countries that have not become Christian have a different moral code.

Lots of people wrote about morals and ethics before Christ, and had a great many thoughts about morals and ethics.

We don’t really have much to discuss about those men outside of higher education today, because the words and actions of Christ became the foundation of our world.

Theory is great- but Jesus Christ lived what he preached, and the world changed because of Him.

Please give me examples of non-Christian countries that have a different moral code than has been demonstrated by Christian countries also.

You can google what countries are Christian and what countries are not Christian. You can compare and contrast.

Like, would you rather live in North Korea, Algeria or the United States?

Why hasn’t Socrates fixed Algeria?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im a no. 2 atheist. For myself, I do not believe in God. My husband is more agnostic. It’s not about whether religion has done good in society, but belief. Right now, it’s killing thousands in Gaza and Israel.

Well... we can get into a whole debate here. "Religion" has been the cause of most struggles in history, but the reality is that it's an easy way to label and "other" populations who impinge on your essential resources and trade opportunities. It's so much easier to say: "Look at these awful aliens who believe in X! We hate them!", instead of making the much more ethically-dubious argument of :" Look at the human beings with the same DNA as us, who want to share our water aquifers! We hate them!". Hmm. Doesn't have quite the same ring to it, does it?

Humans will always go for the easiest differential. Sometimes it's skin color, sometimes it's religion. Rule of thumb: when the label is easy to stick on, it's not the reason for the fight.

NP. Your “easiest differential” theory is too convenient for you. If religion didn’t exist, we wouldn’t have solely religious wars, we probably would have had less child abuse (and better reporting), unwed women wouldn’t have had their babies so easily stolen, and our culture may have allowed for more variance if there weren’t seven deadly sins.

The good of churches has had so much string tied to it. Missionaries dole out money to those who attend church or send kids to Catholic village school. It has eased individual suffering, but it’s caused as much too.

Religion is a belief, and is thus changeable. Skin color is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. You view atheism as a belief system, and you want to compare it to your own belief system. You think it's a battle between belief systems for subscribers. Like people choose between Christianity and atheism the way they choose between Netflix and Hulu.

No.

It's more like Christianity is Netflix, Hulu is Islam, Max is Judaism, the Criterion Collection is Buddhism. And atheism is throwing out your TV.

Of course faith has an appeal, even to those who have lived without it. Especially to those who have lived without it. Religion also offers community and people crave that. But religions themselves don't always work within a person's life. It is normal for people to lose faith but then become curious about it again. It's easy to be a skeptic at 22, and it's easier to be a believer at 62.

I think Jews get it right because they support people in losing their faith within the religion. You can tell your own rabbi "I don't believe," and it's fine, you're still Jewish and nothing changes. The religion is about more than just faith, which can be hard to sustain.

Anyway, you are fighting over something that just doesn't work that way. No one is converting to atheism. They just lose faith.

It's kind of tiresome. When one thread about athiesm dies down, another one pops up. It seems like someone is just begging for someone to argue with them. I have no idea if some are from the same poster or not, but holy crap get over it. Athiests are not coming after your Christian lifestyle. A lot (if not most) really don't give a damn.

Maybe it's someone who is losing their faith and is struggling with it. It's tough to learn that everything you've believed for decades is BS.

No, my faith has remained stable, and grows even in times of hardship and sadness on earth because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I am grateful for the life He has given to me. No one can be taught to have a relationship with God. It’s something you come to on a personal level.

People are taught religion, but religion is not what people should center their life on-it’s their personal belief in Christ that brings joy and peace. Religion doesn’t always bring peace. God does.

I wonder what He thinks about You obsessing over atheism. On a Sunday morning.

He loves me- and you.

Which is exactly why he stays hidden while children die. Makes perfect sense.

And the atheists who killed 100+ million of their own people are completely ignored by you and other atheists because?

Men kill children, not God.

Why can’t men stop killing children? They have a moral code inside them they should be able to follow?

Atheists claim they can choose right from wrong- is that just atheists, but not all humans?

Can’t atheists show the rest of humanity how to be good and moral? It’s really needed.

Maybe write some books or open some atheist centers that can teach these things to other humans. Why are not helping humanity become better?

This is the same BS point as in the OP. It’s a complete fallacy. None of those things were done in the name of atheism.

Just in the same way, the crusades were not done in the name of not believing in Vishnu.

You are the one who believes in something that should be different if it was moral. It’s the classic problem of evil. It’s one of the great realizations and reasons to not believe in an omnipotent god. Because you realize that if he did exist, he would be horrible and that is contradictory. So must not be true.

So even though religion has flaws, in your opinion it has done nothing good?

And governments that mandated atheism had nothing to do with atheists?

And atheists know how to be good, moral people and help their fellow man by their own moral code, but have no interest in helping others and the world by explaining to others about this moral code that exists inside everyone?

You don’t have a responsibility to help your fellow man?

Your implication that atheists are immoral makes you a jerk. Because you know that’s not true. And you know that secular humanism is based on treating other people the way you want to be treated, which is as close to objective morality as we know exists.

Your belief system, however, includes a being who could stop all of the pain and suffering in the world in an instant, and chooses not to.

And you’re going to try and claim atheism is immoral? Wow that’s some twisted pretzel of logic there.

If humans have everything inside them to be good and moral- why aren’t they?

First, because morality isn’t objective. Second most humans.- and most I mean the vast majority - are what most other humans would consider good and moral

Yet an atheist answered that their moral code is whatever they think is right, based on their feelings.

People don’t have the same feelings and opinions about morals and ethics. At all.

Atheists state they have no defined rules or ethics or morals. No atheist subscribes to the same thoughts about anything except they deny God exists.

I don’t get how that is a moral code or ethics?

Are all atheists Secular Humanists?

Stop being purposely, misleading, or obtuse. Most people behave in the way they want you to be treated and that is as close to an objective definition of morality as I know of. It’s extremely simple not complex in anyway.

People are good because it’s better for all of us when we are good. Is that hard to understand?

The legend of your Christian God, however, is a monster who does things like kill 42 children by a bear because they insulted a bald guy. Plus cancer, earthquake, tsunami’s, etc. etc. etc. If he exists it’s all on him.

I can’t take you seriously because I watch the news and see everyday people choose to do the wrong thing.

- do you tell lies, have you ever lied?

-do you always choose the right thing?

-have you ever treated someone badly?

-have you ever stolen anything?

We’re not talking about the news we’re talking about the vast majority of humans, who are imperfect, but still know what’s best for us.

We’re not talking about the small number of sociopaths out there. We’re talking about you and me and our neighbors and friends. We all understand right from wrong and we all make mistakes and have regrets. But we all know because we feel bad when we do a thing that we wouldn’t want done to us.

I’m going to stop explaining the same thing over and over, because I believe you fully understand it but you’re just trying to argue because it goes against the point you are trying to make. This will be the last post they make on the morality subject. Please refer back to it if you have any questions and don’t ask me again.

So you won’t answer if you have ever lied, stolen, or treated another person badly?

Oh my God, you dolt. What part of make mistakes and feel bad when we do it things we don’t want done to us is unclear to you?

So your moral code includes calling people “dolts.”

Ok, mine doesn’t.

If you have ever visited a prison, been involved in the department of social services, or worked in a hospital, you might get a tiny clue that lots and lots and lots of people don’t care if they make mistakes (that’s code for intentionally hurting another, often weaker person) and don’t feel bad at all when they are held accountable, and often repeatedly hurt people over and over again.

I don’t think you see anyone beyond yourself and what you believe.

I know you don’t, because all three of those places proves your beliefs about morals and ethics is only true for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im a no. 2 atheist. For myself, I do not believe in God. My husband is more agnostic. It’s not about whether religion has done good in society, but belief. Right now, it’s killing thousands in Gaza and Israel.

Well... we can get into a whole debate here. "Religion" has been the cause of most struggles in history, but the reality is that it's an easy way to label and "other" populations who impinge on your essential resources and trade opportunities. It's so much easier to say: "Look at these awful aliens who believe in X! We hate them!", instead of making the much more ethically-dubious argument of :" Look at the human beings with the same DNA as us, who want to share our water aquifers! We hate them!". Hmm. Doesn't have quite the same ring to it, does it?

Humans will always go for the easiest differential. Sometimes it's skin color, sometimes it's religion. Rule of thumb: when the label is easy to stick on, it's not the reason for the fight.

NP. Your “easiest differential” theory is too convenient for you. If religion didn’t exist, we wouldn’t have solely religious wars, we probably would have had less child abuse (and better reporting), unwed women wouldn’t have had their babies so easily stolen, and our culture may have allowed for more variance if there weren’t seven deadly sins.

The good of churches has had so much string tied to it. Missionaries dole out money to those who attend church or send kids to Catholic village school. It has eased individual suffering, but it’s caused as much too.

Religion is a belief, and is thus changeable. Skin color is not.

Religion does bad stuff, religion does nothing good for anyone, and atheists and atheism is perfect and never harmed anybody?

Is that your pov?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ethics and morals and the philosophies driving them have been the subject of thinkers since before the birth of Christ. See Socrates and virtue ethics. Some of you act like humans had no sense of right and wrong before Christianity.

The world before Christ was a horror show.

Socrates was writing his stuff and the average human at the time never even knew about him. He has great writings, but didn’t change anything for regular people.

Christ went out to the people, spoke to the people, ate with the people, lived as a peasant His entire life.

Jesus made people who were hurting the poor and abused stop- personally.

He was in this world and showed the world a different way.

OK that's great but my point was that moral reasoning came before Christ.

But Western civilization is based on the ideas that came from Christ.

Countries that became Christian have the same moral code.

Countries that have not become Christian have a different moral code.

Lots of people wrote about morals and ethics before Christ, and had a great many thoughts about morals and ethics.

We don’t really have much to discuss about those men outside of higher education today, because the words and actions of Christ became the foundation of our world.

Theory is great- but Jesus Christ lived what he preached, and the world changed because of Him.

Please give me examples of non-Christian countries that have a different moral code than has been demonstrated by Christian countries also.

You can google what countries are Christian and what countries are not Christian. You can compare and contrast.

Like, would you rather live in North Korea, Algeria or the United States?

Why hasn’t Socrates fixed Algeria?

Cherry picking is fun. Can we discuss Christian Rwanda?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im a no. 2 atheist. For myself, I do not believe in God. My husband is more agnostic. It’s not about whether religion has done good in society, but belief. Right now, it’s killing thousands in Gaza and Israel.

Well... we can get into a whole debate here. "Religion" has been the cause of most struggles in history, but the reality is that it's an easy way to label and "other" populations who impinge on your essential resources and trade opportunities. It's so much easier to say: "Look at these awful aliens who believe in X! We hate them!", instead of making the much more ethically-dubious argument of :" Look at the human beings with the same DNA as us, who want to share our water aquifers! We hate them!". Hmm. Doesn't have quite the same ring to it, does it?

Humans will always go for the easiest differential. Sometimes it's skin color, sometimes it's religion. Rule of thumb: when the label is easy to stick on, it's not the reason for the fight.

NP. Your “easiest differential” theory is too convenient for you. If religion didn’t exist, we wouldn’t have solely religious wars, we probably would have had less child abuse (and better reporting), unwed women wouldn’t have had their babies so easily stolen, and our culture may have allowed for more variance if there weren’t seven deadly sins.

The good of churches has had so much string tied to it. Missionaries dole out money to those who attend church or send kids to Catholic village school. It has eased individual suffering, but it’s caused as much too.

Religion is a belief, and is thus changeable. Skin color is not.

“NP. Your “easiest differential” theory is too convenient for you. If religion didn’t exist, we wouldn’t have solely religious wars, we probably would have had less child abuse (and better reporting), unwed women wouldn’t have had their babies so easily stolen, and our culture may have allowed for more variance if there weren’t seven deadly sins.“

Everything you wrote here is your opinion. What makes you think these things?

How about: if religion didn’t exist, we would have flying cars and live in homes under the ocean and dogs would be able to talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ethics and morals and the philosophies driving them have been the subject of thinkers since before the birth of Christ. See Socrates and virtue ethics. Some of you act like humans had no sense of right and wrong before Christianity.

The world before Christ was a horror show.

Socrates was writing his stuff and the average human at the time never even knew about him. He has great writings, but didn’t change anything for regular people.

Christ went out to the people, spoke to the people, ate with the people, lived as a peasant His entire life.

Jesus made people who were hurting the poor and abused stop- personally.

He was in this world and showed the world a different way.

OK that's great but my point was that moral reasoning came before Christ.

But Western civilization is based on the ideas that came from Christ.

Countries that became Christian have the same moral code.

Countries that have not become Christian have a different moral code.

Lots of people wrote about morals and ethics before Christ, and had a great many thoughts about morals and ethics.

We don’t really have much to discuss about those men outside of higher education today, because the words and actions of Christ became the foundation of our world.

Theory is great- but Jesus Christ lived what he preached, and the world changed because of Him.

Please give me examples of non-Christian countries that have a different moral code than has been demonstrated by Christian countries also.

You can google what countries are Christian and what countries are not Christian. You can compare and contrast.

Like, would you rather live in North Korea, Algeria or the United States?

Why hasn’t Socrates fixed Algeria?

Cherry picking is fun. Can we discuss Christian Rwanda?

When will you discuss over 100 million dead from atheism?

I have repeatedly explained that religion has done bad things and religious people have done bad things. I have never denied both of those statements. I also explained that Jesus has not done those things.

However- every atheist on this thread has denied atheists killed 100 million plus of their own citizens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. You view atheism as a belief system, and you want to compare it to your own belief system. You think it's a battle between belief systems for subscribers. Like people choose between Christianity and atheism the way they choose between Netflix and Hulu.

No.

It's more like Christianity is Netflix, Hulu is Islam, Max is Judaism, the Criterion Collection is Buddhism. And atheism is throwing out your TV.

Of course faith has an appeal, even to those who have lived without it. Especially to those who have lived without it. Religion also offers community and people crave that. But religions themselves don't always work within a person's life. It is normal for people to lose faith but then become curious about it again. It's easy to be a skeptic at 22, and it's easier to be a believer at 62.

I think Jews get it right because they support people in losing their faith within the religion. You can tell your own rabbi "I don't believe," and it's fine, you're still Jewish and nothing changes. The religion is about more than just faith, which can be hard to sustain.

Anyway, you are fighting over something that just doesn't work that way. No one is converting to atheism. They just lose faith.

It's kind of tiresome. When one thread about athiesm dies down, another one pops up. It seems like someone is just begging for someone to argue with them. I have no idea if some are from the same poster or not, but holy crap get over it. Athiests are not coming after your Christian lifestyle. A lot (if not most) really don't give a damn.

Maybe it's someone who is losing their faith and is struggling with it. It's tough to learn that everything you've believed for decades is BS.

No, my faith has remained stable, and grows even in times of hardship and sadness on earth because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I am grateful for the life He has given to me. No one can be taught to have a relationship with God. It’s something you come to on a personal level.

People are taught religion, but religion is not what people should center their life on-it’s their personal belief in Christ that brings joy and peace. Religion doesn’t always bring peace. God does.

I wonder what He thinks about You obsessing over atheism. On a Sunday morning.

He loves me- and you.

Which is exactly why he stays hidden while children die. Makes perfect sense.

And the atheists who killed 100+ million of their own people are completely ignored by you and other atheists because?

Men kill children, not God.

Why can’t men stop killing children? They have a moral code inside them they should be able to follow?

Atheists claim they can choose right from wrong- is that just atheists, but not all humans?

Can’t atheists show the rest of humanity how to be good and moral? It’s really needed.

Maybe write some books or open some atheist centers that can teach these things to other humans. Why are not helping humanity become better?

This is the same BS point as in the OP. It’s a complete fallacy. None of those things were done in the name of atheism.

Just in the same way, the crusades were not done in the name of not believing in Vishnu.

You are the one who believes in something that should be different if it was moral. It’s the classic problem of evil. It’s one of the great realizations and reasons to not believe in an omnipotent god. Because you realize that if he did exist, he would be horrible and that is contradictory. So must not be true.

So even though religion has flaws, in your opinion it has done nothing good?

And governments that mandated atheism had nothing to do with atheists?

And atheists know how to be good, moral people and help their fellow man by their own moral code, but have no interest in helping others and the world by explaining to others about this moral code that exists inside everyone?

You don’t have a responsibility to help your fellow man?

Your implication that atheists are immoral makes you a jerk. Because you know that’s not true. And you know that secular humanism is based on treating other people the way you want to be treated, which is as close to objective morality as we know exists.

Your belief system, however, includes a being who could stop all of the pain and suffering in the world in an instant, and chooses not to.

And you’re going to try and claim atheism is immoral? Wow that’s some twisted pretzel of logic there.

If humans have everything inside them to be good and moral- why aren’t they?

First, because morality isn’t objective. Second most humans.- and most I mean the vast majority - are what most other humans would consider good and moral

Yet an atheist answered that their moral code is whatever they think is right, based on their feelings.

People don’t have the same feelings and opinions about morals and ethics. At all.

Atheists state they have no defined rules or ethics or morals. No atheist subscribes to the same thoughts about anything except they deny God exists.

I don’t get how that is a moral code or ethics?

Are all atheists Secular Humanists?

Do you really not understand how it works for people to decide for themselves - based on their beliefs, their environment, their circumstances, their upbringing, etc - what is right and wrong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ethics and morals and the philosophies driving them have been the subject of thinkers since before the birth of Christ. See Socrates and virtue ethics. Some of you act like humans had no sense of right and wrong before Christianity.

The world before Christ was a horror show.

Socrates was writing his stuff and the average human at the time never even knew about him. He has great writings, but didn’t change anything for regular people.

Christ went out to the people, spoke to the people, ate with the people, lived as a peasant His entire life.

Jesus made people who were hurting the poor and abused stop- personally.

He was in this world and showed the world a different way.

OK that's great but my point was that moral reasoning came before Christ.

But Western civilization is based on the ideas that came from Christ.

Countries that became Christian have the same moral code.

Countries that have not become Christian have a different moral code.

Lots of people wrote about morals and ethics before Christ, and had a great many thoughts about morals and ethics.

We don’t really have much to discuss about those men outside of higher education today, because the words and actions of Christ became the foundation of our world.

Theory is great- but Jesus Christ lived what he preached, and the world changed because of Him.

Please give me examples of non-Christian countries that have a different moral code than has been demonstrated by Christian countries also.

You can google what countries are Christian and what countries are not Christian. You can compare and contrast.

Like, would you rather live in North Korea, Algeria or the United States?

Why hasn’t Socrates fixed Algeria?

Cherry picking is fun. Can we discuss Christian Rwanda?

The country was 90% Christian, which meant 90% of both the victims and the killers were Christian. Close to one million Rwandans, mostly Tutsi Christians, had been killed by their fellow Rwandans, mostly Hutu Christians.
One-third of the murders took place on church property, often with the complicity of clergy from nearly every denomination represented.

^Really, really, really bad. Definitely genocide. A terrible time in the history of that country- those poor people.

Pope John Paul II was the first to call the events in Rwanda a “genocide,” but he did not take further steps. Nor did President Clinton, as U.S. participation in a U.N. agreement intended to prevent another Holocaust would have required intervention in events determined to be “genocide.”

Large numbers of perpetrators were tried for their crimes, and some were punished. A few clergy were also tried, though others fled to countries in Africa and Europe or to the U.S. Some religious groups issued apologies for their role – most not until years later.

I don’t think anyone can say this is anything but a disgrace and a disgusting tragedy.

I can’t say we were unaware at the time, either. World governments knew what was happening and did nothing.

Why didn’t our leaders help these people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. You view atheism as a belief system, and you want to compare it to your own belief system. You think it's a battle between belief systems for subscribers. Like people choose between Christianity and atheism the way they choose between Netflix and Hulu.

No.

It's more like Christianity is Netflix, Hulu is Islam, Max is Judaism, the Criterion Collection is Buddhism. And atheism is throwing out your TV.

Of course faith has an appeal, even to those who have lived without it. Especially to those who have lived without it. Religion also offers community and people crave that. But religions themselves don't always work within a person's life. It is normal for people to lose faith but then become curious about it again. It's easy to be a skeptic at 22, and it's easier to be a believer at 62.

I think Jews get it right because they support people in losing their faith within the religion. You can tell your own rabbi "I don't believe," and it's fine, you're still Jewish and nothing changes. The religion is about more than just faith, which can be hard to sustain.

Anyway, you are fighting over something that just doesn't work that way. No one is converting to atheism. They just lose faith.

It's kind of tiresome. When one thread about athiesm dies down, another one pops up. It seems like someone is just begging for someone to argue with them. I have no idea if some are from the same poster or not, but holy crap get over it. Athiests are not coming after your Christian lifestyle. A lot (if not most) really don't give a damn.

Maybe it's someone who is losing their faith and is struggling with it. It's tough to learn that everything you've believed for decades is BS.

No, my faith has remained stable, and grows even in times of hardship and sadness on earth because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I am grateful for the life He has given to me. No one can be taught to have a relationship with God. It’s something you come to on a personal level.

People are taught religion, but religion is not what people should center their life on-it’s their personal belief in Christ that brings joy and peace. Religion doesn’t always bring peace. God does.

I wonder what He thinks about You obsessing over atheism. On a Sunday morning.

He loves me- and you.

Which is exactly why he stays hidden while children die. Makes perfect sense.

And the atheists who killed 100+ million of their own people are completely ignored by you and other atheists because?

Men kill children, not God.

Why can’t men stop killing children? They have a moral code inside them they should be able to follow?

Atheists claim they can choose right from wrong- is that just atheists, but not all humans?

Can’t atheists show the rest of humanity how to be good and moral? It’s really needed.

Maybe write some books or open some atheist centers that can teach these things to other humans. Why are not helping humanity become better?

This is the same BS point as in the OP. It’s a complete fallacy. None of those things were done in the name of atheism.

Just in the same way, the crusades were not done in the name of not believing in Vishnu.

You are the one who believes in something that should be different if it was moral. It’s the classic problem of evil. It’s one of the great realizations and reasons to not believe in an omnipotent god. Because you realize that if he did exist, he would be horrible and that is contradictory. So must not be true.

So even though religion has flaws, in your opinion it has done nothing good?

And governments that mandated atheism had nothing to do with atheists?

And atheists know how to be good, moral people and help their fellow man by their own moral code, but have no interest in helping others and the world by explaining to others about this moral code that exists inside everyone?

You don’t have a responsibility to help your fellow man?

Your implication that atheists are immoral makes you a jerk. Because you know that’s not true. And you know that secular humanism is based on treating other people the way you want to be treated, which is as close to objective morality as we know exists.

Your belief system, however, includes a being who could stop all of the pain and suffering in the world in an instant, and chooses not to.

And you’re going to try and claim atheism is immoral? Wow that’s some twisted pretzel of logic there.

If humans have everything inside them to be good and moral- why aren’t they?

First, because morality isn’t objective. Second most humans.- and most I mean the vast majority - are what most other humans would consider good and moral

Yet an atheist answered that their moral code is whatever they think is right, based on their feelings.

People don’t have the same feelings and opinions about morals and ethics. At all.

Atheists state they have no defined rules or ethics or morals. No atheist subscribes to the same thoughts about anything except they deny God exists.

I don’t get how that is a moral code or ethics?

Are all atheists Secular Humanists?

Do you really not understand how it works for people to decide for themselves - based on their beliefs, their environment, their circumstances, their upbringing, etc - what is right and wrong?

So everyone who is an atheist will ignore 100 million dead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ethics and morals and the philosophies driving them have been the subject of thinkers since before the birth of Christ. See Socrates and virtue ethics. Some of you act like humans had no sense of right and wrong before Christianity.

The world before Christ was a horror show.

Socrates was writing his stuff and the average human at the time never even knew about him. He has great writings, but didn’t change anything for regular people.

Christ went out to the people, spoke to the people, ate with the people, lived as a peasant His entire life.

Jesus made people who were hurting the poor and abused stop- personally.

He was in this world and showed the world a different way.

OK that's great but my point was that moral reasoning came before Christ.

But Western civilization is based on the ideas that came from Christ.

Countries that became Christian have the same moral code.

Countries that have not become Christian have a different moral code.

Lots of people wrote about morals and ethics before Christ, and had a great many thoughts about morals and ethics.

We don’t really have much to discuss about those men outside of higher education today, because the words and actions of Christ became the foundation of our world.

Theory is great- but Jesus Christ lived what he preached, and the world changed because of Him.

Please give me examples of non-Christian countries that have a different moral code than has been demonstrated by Christian countries also.

You can google what countries are Christian and what countries are not Christian. You can compare and contrast.

Like, would you rather live in North Korea, Algeria or the United States?

Why hasn’t Socrates fixed Algeria?

No, you provide evidence to support your claim. You can’t.

[Anonymous]

NP - I don’t think anyone is ‘denying’ that china and Russia murdered people. Murdering people is bad m’kay. Is that what you wanted to hear?

Anyways, I’ve never heard of new atheism or 4 horsemen or whatever. Contrary to what you seem to believe, not all atheists drop a bible and pick up some sort of atheist hand book to study instead. We just don’t believe in god. That’s literally the only thing tying us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where is the evidence that "atheism is losing popularity" when we know that the "nones" continue to grow every year?

Seriously. Wishful thinking on OP’s part. Sorry OP, but the more we know about our universe (through scientific discovery), the less the need for a “god”, Christian or otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Sigh. You view atheism as a belief system, and you want to compare it to your own belief system. You think it's a battle between belief systems for subscribers. Like people choose between Christianity and atheism the way they choose between Netflix and Hulu.

No.

It's more like Christianity is Netflix, Hulu is Islam, Max is Judaism, the Criterion Collection is Buddhism. And atheism is throwing out your TV.

Of course faith has an appeal, even to those who have lived without it. Especially to those who have lived without it. Religion also offers community and people crave that. But religions themselves don't always work within a person's life. It is normal for people to lose faith but then become curious about it again. It's easy to be a skeptic at 22, and it's easier to be a believer at 62.

I think Jews get it right because they support people in losing their faith within the religion. You can tell your own rabbi "I don't believe," and it's fine, you're still Jewish and nothing changes. The religion is about more than just faith, which can be hard to sustain.

Anyway, you are fighting over something that just doesn't work that way. No one is converting to atheism. They just lose faith.

It's kind of tiresome. When one thread about athiesm dies down, another one pops up. It seems like someone is just begging for someone to argue with them. I have no idea if some are from the same poster or not, but holy crap get over it. Athiests are not coming after your Christian lifestyle. A lot (if not most) really don't give a damn.

Maybe it's someone who is losing their faith and is struggling with it. It's tough to learn that everything you've believed for decades is BS.

No, my faith has remained stable, and grows even in times of hardship and sadness on earth because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I am grateful for the life He has given to me. No one can be taught to have a relationship with God. It’s something you come to on a personal level.

People are taught religion, but religion is not what people should center their life on-it’s their personal belief in Christ that brings joy and peace. Religion doesn’t always bring peace. God does.

I wonder what He thinks about You obsessing over atheism. On a Sunday morning.

He loves me- and you.

Which is exactly why he stays hidden while children die. Makes perfect sense.

And the atheists who killed 100+ million of their own people are completely ignored by you and other atheists because?

Men kill children, not God.

Why can’t men stop killing children? They have a moral code inside them they should be able to follow?

Atheists claim they can choose right from wrong- is that just atheists, but not all humans?

Can’t atheists show the rest of humanity how to be good and moral? It’s really needed.

Maybe write some books or open some atheist centers that can teach these things to other humans. Why are not helping humanity become better?

This is the same BS point as in the OP. It’s a complete fallacy. None of those things were done in the name of atheism.

Just in the same way, the crusades were not done in the name of not believing in Vishnu.

You are the one who believes in something that should be different if it was moral. It’s the classic problem of evil. It’s one of the great realizations and reasons to not believe in an omnipotent god. Because you realize that if he did exist, he would be horrible and that is contradictory. So must not be true.

So even though religion has flaws, in your opinion it has done nothing good?

And governments that mandated atheism had nothing to do with atheists?

And atheists know how to be good, moral people and help their fellow man by their own moral code, but have no interest in helping others and the world by explaining to others about this moral code that exists inside everyone?

You don’t have a responsibility to help your fellow man?

Your implication that atheists are immoral makes you a jerk. Because you know that’s not true. And you know that secular humanism is based on treating other people the way you want to be treated, which is as close to objective morality as we know exists.

Your belief system, however, includes a being who could stop all of the pain and suffering in the world in an instant, and chooses not to.

And you’re going to try and claim atheism is immoral? Wow that’s some twisted pretzel of logic there.

If humans have everything inside them to be good and moral- why aren’t they?

First, because morality isn’t objective. Second most humans.- and most I mean the vast majority - are what most other humans would consider good and moral

Yet an atheist answered that their moral code is whatever they think is right, based on their feelings.

People don’t have the same feelings and opinions about morals and ethics. At all.

Atheists state they have no defined rules or ethics or morals. No atheist subscribes to the same thoughts about anything except they deny God exists.

I don’t get how that is a moral code or ethics?

Are all atheists Secular Humanists?

Do you really not understand how it works for people to decide for themselves - based on their beliefs, their environment, their circumstances, their upbringing, etc - what is right and wrong?

So everyone who is an atheist will ignore 100 million dead?

Bad people kill people. Sometimes those bad people are atheist. Usually though, they are religious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Sigh. You view atheism as a belief system, and you want to compare it to your own belief system. You think it's a battle between belief systems for subscribers. Like people choose between Christianity and atheism the way they choose between Netflix and Hulu.

No.

It's more like Christianity is Netflix, Hulu is Islam, Max is Judaism, the Criterion Collection is Buddhism. And atheism is throwing out your TV.

Of course faith has an appeal, even to those who have lived without it. Especially to those who have lived without it. Religion also offers community and people crave that. But religions themselves don't always work within a person's life. It is normal for people to lose faith but then become curious about it again. It's easy to be a skeptic at 22, and it's easier to be a believer at 62.

I think Jews get it right because they support people in losing their faith within the religion. You can tell your own rabbi "I don't believe," and it's fine, you're still Jewish and nothing changes. The religion is about more than just faith, which can be hard to sustain.

Anyway, you are fighting over something that just doesn't work that way. No one is converting to atheism. They just lose faith.

It's kind of tiresome. When one thread about athiesm dies down, another one pops up. It seems like someone is just begging for someone to argue with them. I have no idea if some are from the same poster or not, but holy crap get over it. Athiests are not coming after your Christian lifestyle. A lot (if not most) really don't give a damn.

Maybe it's someone who is losing their faith and is struggling with it. It's tough to learn that everything you've believed for decades is BS.

No, my faith has remained stable, and grows even in times of hardship and sadness on earth because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I am grateful for the life He has given to me. No one can be taught to have a relationship with God. It’s something you come to on a personal level.

People are taught religion, but religion is not what people should center their life on-it’s their personal belief in Christ that brings joy and peace. Religion doesn’t always bring peace. God does.

I wonder what He thinks about You obsessing over atheism. On a Sunday morning.

He loves me- and you.

Which is exactly why he stays hidden while children die. Makes perfect sense.

And the atheists who killed 100+ million of their own people are completely ignored by you and other atheists because?

Men kill children, not God.

Why can’t men stop killing children? They have a moral code inside them they should be able to follow?

Atheists claim they can choose right from wrong- is that just atheists, but not all humans?

Can’t atheists show the rest of humanity how to be good and moral? It’s really needed.

Maybe write some books or open some atheist centers that can teach these things to other humans. Why are not helping humanity become better?

This is the same BS point as in the OP. It’s a complete fallacy. None of those things were done in the name of atheism.

Just in the same way, the crusades were not done in the name of not believing in Vishnu.

You are the one who believes in something that should be different if it was moral. It’s the classic problem of evil. It’s one of the great realizations and reasons to not believe in an omnipotent god. Because you realize that if he did exist, he would be horrible and that is contradictory. So must not be true.

So even though religion has flaws, in your opinion it has done nothing good?

And governments that mandated atheism had nothing to do with atheists?

And atheists know how to be good, moral people and help their fellow man by their own moral code, but have no interest in helping others and the world by explaining to others about this moral code that exists inside everyone?

You don’t have a responsibility to help your fellow man?

Your implication that atheists are immoral makes you a jerk. Because you know that’s not true. And you know that secular humanism is based on treating other people the way you want to be treated, which is as close to objective morality as we know exists.

Your belief system, however, includes a being who could stop all of the pain and suffering in the world in an instant, and chooses not to.

And you’re going to try and claim atheism is immoral? Wow that’s some twisted pretzel of logic there.

If humans have everything inside them to be good and moral- why aren’t they?

First, because morality isn’t objective. Second most humans.- and most I mean the vast majority - are what most other humans would consider good and moral

Yet an atheist answered that their moral code is whatever they think is right, based on their feelings.

People don’t have the same feelings and opinions about morals and ethics. At all.

Atheists state they have no defined rules or ethics or morals. No atheist subscribes to the same thoughts about anything except they deny God exists.

I don’t get how that is a moral code or ethics?

Are all atheists Secular Humanists?

Do you really not understand how it works for people to decide for themselves - based on their beliefs, their environment, their circumstances, their upbringing, etc - what is right and wrong?

So everyone who is an atheist will ignore 100 million dead?

Bad people kill people. Sometimes those bad people are atheist. Usually though, they are religious.

That’s a pretty strong statement.