Catholic schools rigor?

Anonymous
OP, you know some of the best teachers/ programs for education are the Jesuits, correct?
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Our experience was that there is a LOT of work and homework at the catholic school, but not a great DEPTH of study. So, “rigor” in the sense of very busy and generating lots of papers, but not a rigorous depth of learning necessarily and not any probing studying or wonder.

Traditional schools like catholic schools follow the rote memorization learning style of the 20th century. They don't ask "explain your thinking", which I know many parents and students alike hate. TBH, "explain your thinking" isn't applicable in all cases, but the reasoning behind the recent craze of "explain your thinking" is to spur critical thinking skills.

A lot of Asian countries still use the rote memorization teaching style but it's changing.


You guys are peddling in tropes. Catholic schools are not all one thing, so PP's experience with one, even if true, cannot be applied to all of the others. To say Catholic education is all about rote memorization with no critical thinking, and others claiming Catholics teach Creationism, and still others saying they don't teach science (on other threads), is the kind of misinformation and bigotry that is constantly allowed in this forum and it is so dang tired and wrong.

but it's fine to claim that all public schools are a dumpster fire, right?.. because that's what a lot of private school parents claim.


Awww, if the truth hurts so much, go put your head in a hole. All you have to do is go to this forum to see what a mess MCPS is. https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/forums/show/44.page

please.. it's the catholic school parents who are defensive.

To quote PP: "Catholic schools are not all one thing, so PP's experience with one, even if true, cannot be applied to all of the others"

I suppose this logic only applies to catholic schools but not public schools, right?

You point to some people who complain about MCPS as your proof that all public schools are a dumpster fire.

Let's rewrite PP's quote: "[public] schools are not all one thing, so [some people's] experience with one, even if true, cannot be applied to all of the others"

Were you educated in a catholic school, by chance? Critical thinking skills aren't taught there, I see. There's that rote memorization coming up to rear its head, I suppose.

You're a terrible example of a catholic school educated person. Don't make that public.


Never said all public schools were a dumpster fire...just most. And again, not Catholic. Actually schooled in a pretty bad public school in the northeast and never got past community college.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Our experience was that there is a LOT of work and homework at the catholic school, but not a great DEPTH of study. So, “rigor” in the sense of very busy and generating lots of papers, but not a rigorous depth of learning necessarily and not any probing studying or wonder.

Traditional schools like catholic schools follow the rote memorization learning style of the 20th century. They don't ask "explain your thinking", which I know many parents and students alike hate. TBH, "explain your thinking" isn't applicable in all cases, but the reasoning behind the recent craze of "explain your thinking" is to spur critical thinking skills.

A lot of Asian countries still use the rote memorization teaching style but it's changing.


You guys are peddling in tropes. Catholic schools are not all one thing, so PP's experience with one, even if true, cannot be applied to all of the others. To say Catholic education is all about rote memorization with no critical thinking, and others claiming Catholics teach Creationism, and still others saying they don't teach science (on other threads), is the kind of misinformation and bigotry that is constantly allowed in this forum and it is so dang tired and wrong.

but it's fine to claim that all public schools are a dumpster fire, right?.. because that's what a lot of private school parents claim.


PP here: No, of course that is wrong too. I am not one of those. My kids have attended both DCPS and Catholic, and in a prior post, I stated that I liked them both for different reasons. But even though some parents do lump all publics together, you recognize that that is ridiculous and not OK, but then you do the same with other schools. Two wrongs don't make a right. We can be responsible in our own posts. We can't control everyone else, but we can prevent ourselves from adding to the fake noise.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Our experience was that there is a LOT of work and homework at the catholic school, but not a great DEPTH of study. So, “rigor” in the sense of very busy and generating lots of papers, but not a rigorous depth of learning necessarily and not any probing studying or wonder.

Traditional schools like catholic schools follow the rote memorization learning style of the 20th century. They don't ask "explain your thinking", which I know many parents and students alike hate. TBH, "explain your thinking" isn't applicable in all cases, but the reasoning behind the recent craze of "explain your thinking" is to spur critical thinking skills.

A lot of Asian countries still use the rote memorization teaching style but it's changing. [America?

Rote memorization is appropriate for young kids. Their brains are wired to memorize. Think about the perfectly average kids who have memorized all 800 Pokemon...that brainpower can easily be harnessed for real world facts. Analysis and critical thinking come in in the preteen years and it's usually pointless to push it earlier.

sure, but a lot of the traditional schools teach rote memorization all throughout the grades.


Really? Name one.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:True story. A friend of mine whose daughter attended MCPS through HS is now at Towson University. She is struggling because she doesn't know how to study. Because she never had exposure to mid term or final exams, she is having to learn how to study and is considering dropping a class or two. This is so sad.

Also, she was an honor student in HS FWIW.

True story, lots of MCPS kids go to top colleges, and they know how to study, and get good grades there.


I am talking about average kids here, not the ones who are going to magnets and W schools. Students who never take an AP class don't get exposure to cumulative testing experiences. There are lots of these kids, and if they can't succeed at a school like Towson, that is not a good look on MCPS. Sorry.

I know it's shocking but there are actually kids outside of magnet and W schools that do go to great colleges.


Of course there are. But not many.

and there are "not many" from catholics who get into great colleges.


There seemed to be a lot of people in the Catholic club at Princeton when I was there, but I agree a lot of my Catholic peers chose Notre Dame or Georgetown rather than excellent secular options.


"Because of its Presbyterian roots, Princeton did not really welcome “papists” until the early years of the twentieth century. Today, Catholics make up 20 to 25 percent of the student body, or roughly 1,200 students, and are the largest single religious group on campus." https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/catholicism-campus#:~:text=Because%20of%20its%20Presbyterian%20roots,single%20religious%20group%20on%20campus.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:True story. A friend of mine whose daughter attended MCPS through HS is now at Towson University. She is struggling because she doesn't know how to study. Because she never had exposure to mid term or final exams, she is having to learn how to study and is considering dropping a class or two. This is so sad.

Also, she was an honor student in HS FWIW.

True story, lots of MCPS kids go to top colleges, and they know how to study, and get good grades there.


I am talking about average kids here, not the ones who are going to magnets and W schools. Students who never take an AP class don't get exposure to cumulative testing experiences. There are lots of these kids, and if they can't succeed at a school like Towson, that is not a good look on MCPS. Sorry.

I know it's shocking but there are actually kids outside of magnet and W schools that do go to great colleges.


Of course there are. But not many.

and there are "not many" from catholics who get into great colleges.


There seemed to be a lot of people in the Catholic club at Princeton when I was there, but I agree a lot of my Catholic peers chose Notre Dame or Georgetown rather than excellent secular options.


"Because of its Presbyterian roots, Princeton did not really welcome “papists” until the early years of the twentieth century. Today, Catholics make up 20 to 25 percent of the student body, or roughly 1,200 students, and are the largest single religious group on campus." https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/catholicism-campus#:~:text=Because%20of%20its%20Presbyterian%20roots,single%20religious%20group%20on%20campus.


Do you realize that many Catholics don’t go to Catholic school, right?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:True story. A friend of mine whose daughter attended MCPS through HS is now at Towson University. She is struggling because she doesn't know how to study. Because she never had exposure to mid term or final exams, she is having to learn how to study and is considering dropping a class or two. This is so sad.

Also, she was an honor student in HS FWIW.

True story, lots of MCPS kids go to top colleges, and they know how to study, and get good grades there.


I am talking about average kids here, not the ones who are going to magnets and W schools. Students who never take an AP class don't get exposure to cumulative testing experiences. There are lots of these kids, and if they can't succeed at a school like Towson, that is not a good look on MCPS. Sorry.

I know it's shocking but there are actually kids outside of magnet and W schools that do go to great colleges.


Of course there are. But not many.

and there are "not many" from catholics who get into great colleges.


There seemed to be a lot of people in the Catholic club at Princeton when I was there, but I agree a lot of my Catholic peers chose Notre Dame or Georgetown rather than excellent secular options.


"Because of its Presbyterian roots, Princeton did not really welcome “papists” until the early years of the twentieth century. Today, Catholics make up 20 to 25 percent of the student body, or roughly 1,200 students, and are the largest single religious group on campus." https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/catholicism-campus#:~:text=Because%20of%20its%20Presbyterian%20roots,single%20religious%20group%20on%20campus.


Catholics are also a plurality at Yale and Harvard.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:True story. A friend of mine whose daughter attended MCPS through HS is now at Towson University. She is struggling because she doesn't know how to study. Because she never had exposure to mid term or final exams, she is having to learn how to study and is considering dropping a class or two. This is so sad.

Also, she was an honor student in HS FWIW.

True story, lots of MCPS kids go to top colleges, and they know how to study, and get good grades there.


I am talking about average kids here, not the ones who are going to magnets and W schools. Students who never take an AP class don't get exposure to cumulative testing experiences. There are lots of these kids, and if they can't succeed at a school like Towson, that is not a good look on MCPS. Sorry.

I know it's shocking but there are actually kids outside of magnet and W schools that do go to great colleges.


Of course there are. But not many.

and there are "not many" from catholics who get into great colleges.


There seemed to be a lot of people in the Catholic club at Princeton when I was there, but I agree a lot of my Catholic peers chose Notre Dame or Georgetown rather than excellent secular options.


"Because of its Presbyterian roots, Princeton did not really welcome “papists” until the early years of the twentieth century. Today, Catholics make up 20 to 25 percent of the student body, or roughly 1,200 students, and are the largest single religious group on campus." https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/catholicism-campus#:~:text=Because%20of%20its%20Presbyterian%20roots,single%20religious%20group%20on%20campus.


Do you realize that many Catholics don’t go to Catholic school, right?


PP here. Princeton reports that 13 percent of the Class of 2026 attended “religious affiliated” high schools, the majority of which presumably were Catholic. Another 17 percent attended independent day schools and 9 percent attended boarding schools. Sixty percent attended public schools. So it appears that both public and Catholic school graduates are underrepresented at Princeton, but public schools are the most poorly represented of them all.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I think this conversation misses that there are benefits to mass and prayer that are outside of the religious benefits. Mass and other religious activities like praying the rosary help kids learn to sit still, quiet their brain and focus. It teaches them that there are times when you have to be respectful. Frequently my child's class has a prayer leader which is a daily practice in public speaking. I personally like these practices for the religious reasons but I also think they provide educational benefits. I'm not sure how these are done in public schools but I can see the benefit at my kids k-8.


This is the most insightful comment of all.

When I attend the weekly school Mass at my kids' elementary, I am always impressed by how quiet and still they are, particularly before Mass begins.

And of course, the readers and altar severs are students. They are taking on speaking and leadership roles in front of hundreds of their peers. And similar opportunities are availed to students every day.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Our experience was that there is a LOT of work and homework at the catholic school, but not a great DEPTH of study. So, “rigor” in the sense of very busy and generating lots of papers, but not a rigorous depth of learning necessarily and not any probing studying or wonder.

Traditional schools like catholic schools follow the rote memorization learning style of the 20th century. They don't ask "explain your thinking", which I know many parents and students alike hate. TBH, "explain your thinking" isn't applicable in all cases, but the reasoning behind the recent craze of "explain your thinking" is to spur critical thinking skills.

A lot of Asian countries still use the rote memorization teaching style but it's changing.


You guys are peddling in tropes. Catholic schools are not all one thing, so PP's experience with one, even if true, cannot be applied to all of the others. To say Catholic education is all about rote memorization with no critical thinking, and others claiming Catholics teach Creationism, and still others saying they don't teach science (on other threads), is the kind of misinformation and bigotry that is constantly allowed in this forum and it is so dang tired and wrong.

but it's fine to claim that all public schools are a dumpster fire, right?.. because that's what a lot of private school parents claim.


Awww, if the truth hurts so much, go put your head in a hole. All you have to do is go to this forum to see what a mess MCPS is. https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/forums/show/44.page


The lack of humility from some Catholic school parents is always disappointing.

- Catholic school parent


I am the PP, and my kid is in a secular school. And sorry, but I am right about public schools being an absolute disaster. It will get worse. Teachers quitting because they can't take it anymore. Many moving to private schools. Bad situation for these poor kids.


I’ll refer you to the PP at 18:31 and agree with that PP that your statement is stupid and uninformed.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:True story. A friend of mine whose daughter attended MCPS through HS is now at Towson University. She is struggling because she doesn't know how to study. Because she never had exposure to mid term or final exams, she is having to learn how to study and is considering dropping a class or two. This is so sad.

Also, she was an honor student in HS FWIW.

True story, lots of MCPS kids go to top colleges, and they know how to study, and get good grades there.


I am talking about average kids here, not the ones who are going to magnets and W schools. Students who never take an AP class don't get exposure to cumulative testing experiences. There are lots of these kids, and if they can't succeed at a school like Towson, that is not a good look on MCPS. Sorry.

I know it's shocking but there are actually kids outside of magnet and W schools that do go to great colleges.


Of course there are. But not many.

and there are "not many" from catholics who get into great colleges.


There seemed to be a lot of people in the Catholic club at Princeton when I was there, but I agree a lot of my Catholic peers chose Notre Dame or Georgetown rather than excellent secular options.


"Because of its Presbyterian roots, Princeton did not really welcome “papists” until the early years of the twentieth century. Today, Catholics make up 20 to 25 percent of the student body, or roughly 1,200 students, and are the largest single religious group on campus." https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/catholicism-campus#:~:text=Because%20of%20its%20Presbyterian%20roots,single%20religious%20group%20on%20campus.


Do you realize that many Catholics don’t go to Catholic school, right?


PP here. Princeton reports that 13 percent of the Class of 2026 attended “religious affiliated” high schools, the majority of which presumably were Catholic. Another 17 percent attended independent day schools and 9 percent attended boarding schools. Sixty percent attended public schools. So it appears that both public and Catholic school graduates are underrepresented at Princeton, but public schools are the most poorly represented of them all.


College bound public school students are not underrepresented. You are counting public school graduates who are going to trade school, the military, starting to work right away. Plus the unlucky students who went to a poor public school with no access to anything but bare bone basics. Private schools are pretty much for students who are going to college.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Any Private is better than Public. Catholic or not.


That’s really a stupid uninformed statement. The top public schools send more students to the top universities than most private schools. These public schools are only admit the top students and they actually have the best and brightest. Stuyvesant High NY , Bronx High Science NY, Hunter School Science NY, Boston Latin plus all the other exam schools across the US.

Also some of the wealthiest towns have top public schools that send their students to top colleges well prepared. And then you have the for profit private schools that are terrible.

It’s no longer private school is always better than public school. The exam high schools, especially sciences ones around the country are where the brightest kids end up. The well known NYC and New England old private schools are still on top. And the public schools still have problems with equity.


We don’t care about New York City. This is about the DMV.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:True story. A friend of mine whose daughter attended MCPS through HS is now at Towson University. She is struggling because she doesn't know how to study. Because she never had exposure to mid term or final exams, she is having to learn how to study and is considering dropping a class or two. This is so sad.

Also, she was an honor student in HS FWIW.

True story, lots of MCPS kids go to top colleges, and they know how to study, and get good grades there.


I am talking about average kids here, not the ones who are going to magnets and W schools. Students who never take an AP class don't get exposure to cumulative testing experiences. There are lots of these kids, and if they can't succeed at a school like Towson, that is not a good look on MCPS. Sorry.

I know it's shocking but there are actually kids outside of magnet and W schools that do go to great colleges.


Of course there are. But not many.

and there are "not many" from catholics who get into great colleges.


There seemed to be a lot of people in the Catholic club at Princeton when I was there, but I agree a lot of my Catholic peers chose Notre Dame or Georgetown rather than excellent secular options.


"Because of its Presbyterian roots, Princeton did not really welcome “papists” until the early years of the twentieth century. Today, Catholics make up 20 to 25 percent of the student body, or roughly 1,200 students, and are the largest single religious group on campus." https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/catholicism-campus#:~:text=Because%20of%20its%20Presbyterian%20roots,single%20religious%20group%20on%20campus.


Do you realize that many Catholics don’t go to Catholic school, right?


PP here. Princeton reports that 13 percent of the Class of 2026 attended “religious affiliated” high schools, the majority of which presumably were Catholic. Another 17 percent attended independent day schools and 9 percent attended boarding schools. Sixty percent attended public schools. So it appears that both public and Catholic school graduates are underrepresented at Princeton, but public schools are the most poorly represented of them all.

Why would you presume the majority of religious schools were Catholic? I wouldn’t be so sure. Just in DC alone, the top private schools are religious affiliated but also non-Catholic (St. Albans, National Cathedral School and Sidwell Friends).
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:It depends on the school but there are mixed views on that. Many people find that the basic writing and math skills taught in Catholic schools give them a stronger foundation than public schools when the kids get to high school.

What seems to lack is a broader degree of differentiation that you might get in public schools. Few if any K-8 Catholic kids get to Geometry for example. Advanced learners who might be in AAP and students at the other end of the spectrum don't necessarily have their needs met.

Catholic schools are a good fit for a run-of-the-mill student who also wants a religious component to their education.


+1. Most Catholic schools use tried-and-true teaching methods, rather than whichever educational fad is happening now. So most stuck with Phonics, avoiding the WholeLanguage / Balanced Literacy approach (which did not work for most students). More likely to have regular homework, use workbooks integrated with the curriculum, etc.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:True story. A friend of mine whose daughter attended MCPS through HS is now at Towson University. She is struggling because she doesn't know how to study. Because she never had exposure to mid term or final exams, she is having to learn how to study and is considering dropping a class or two. This is so sad.

Also, she was an honor student in HS FWIW.

True story, lots of MCPS kids go to top colleges, and they know how to study, and get good grades there.


I am talking about average kids here, not the ones who are going to magnets and W schools. Students who never take an AP class don't get exposure to cumulative testing experiences. There are lots of these kids, and if they can't succeed at a school like Towson, that is not a good look on MCPS. Sorry.

I know it's shocking but there are actually kids outside of magnet and W schools that do go to great colleges.


Of course there are. But not many.

and there are "not many" from catholics who get into great colleges.


There seemed to be a lot of people in the Catholic club at Princeton when I was there, but I agree a lot of my Catholic peers chose Notre Dame or Georgetown rather than excellent secular options.


"Because of its Presbyterian roots, Princeton did not really welcome “papists” until the early years of the twentieth century. Today, Catholics make up 20 to 25 percent of the student body, or roughly 1,200 students, and are the largest single religious group on campus." https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/catholicism-campus#:~:text=Because%20of%20its%20Presbyterian%20roots,single%20religious%20group%20on%20campus.


Do you realize that many Catholics don’t go to Catholic school, right?


PP here. Princeton reports that 13 percent of the Class of 2026 attended “religious affiliated” high schools, the majority of which presumably were Catholic. Another 17 percent attended independent day schools and 9 percent attended boarding schools. Sixty percent attended public schools. So it appears that both public and Catholic school graduates are underrepresented at Princeton, but public schools are the most poorly represented of them all.


Less than 13 percent of high schoolers in America graduate from Catholic schools but 13 percent of Princeton students hail from them, so they are over represented. I went to Dartmouth, after 12 years of Catholic school, and found a ton of peers there from Catholic school. Like a previous poster said many of my classmates chose top Catholic colleges rather than applying to the Ivy League.
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