Catholic schools rigor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the school but there are mixed views on that. Many people find that the basic writing and math skills taught in Catholic schools give them a stronger foundation than public schools when the kids get to high school.

What seems to lack is a broader degree of differentiation that you might get in public schools. Few if any K-8 Catholic kids get to Geometry for example. Advanced learners who might be in AAP and students at the other end of the spectrum don't necessarily have their needs met.

Catholic schools are a good fit for a run-of-the-mill student who also wants a religious component to their education.

+1. Most Catholic schools use tried-and-true teaching methods, rather than whichever educational fad is happening now. So most stuck with Phonics, avoiding the WholeLanguage / Balanced Literacy approach (which did not work for most students). More likely to have regular homework, use workbooks integrated with the curriculum, etc.

100% Perfect example is the disaster of "Balanced Literacy" which Catholic schools never used. Catholic schools always incorporated phonics in reading instructions. Public schools for many years stopped teaching phonics to make way for Lucy Calkins' curriculum. Eventually they figured out the disaster it was and went back to the science of reading. Catholic schools stayed the course of proven methods. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/22/us/reading-teaching-curriculum-phonics.html

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:True story. A friend of mine whose daughter attended MCPS through HS is now at Towson University. She is struggling because she doesn't know how to study. Because she never had exposure to mid term or final exams, she is having to learn how to study and is considering dropping a class or two. This is so sad.

Also, she was an honor student in HS FWIW.

True story, lots of MCPS kids go to top colleges, and they know how to study, and get good grades there.

I am talking about average kids here, not the ones who are going to magnets and W schools. Students who never take an AP class don't get exposure to cumulative testing experiences. There are lots of these kids, and if they can't succeed at a school like Towson, that is not a good look on MCPS. Sorry.

I know it's shocking but there are actually kids outside of magnet and W schools that do go to great colleges.

Of course there are. But not many.

and there are "not many" from catholics who get into great colleges.

There seemed to be a lot of people in the Catholic club at Princeton when I was there, but I agree a lot of my Catholic peers chose Notre Dame or Georgetown rather than excellent secular options.

"Because of its Presbyterian roots, Princeton did not really welcome “papists” until the early years of the twentieth century. Today, Catholics make up 20 to 25 percent of the student body, or roughly 1,200 students, and are the largest single religious group on campus." https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/catholicism-campus#:~:text=Because%20of%20its%20Presbyterian%20roots,single%20religious%20group%20on%20campus.

Do you realize that many Catholics don’t go to Catholic school, right?

PP here. Princeton reports that 13 percent of the Class of 2026 attended “religious affiliated” high schools, the majority of which presumably were Catholic. Another 17 percent attended independent day schools and 9 percent attended boarding schools. Sixty percent attended public schools. So it appears that both public and Catholic school graduates are underrepresented at Princeton, but public schools are the most poorly represented of them all.

Less than 13 percent of high schoolers in America graduate from Catholic schools but 13 percent of Princeton students hail from them, so they are over represented. I went to Dartmouth, after 12 years of Catholic school, and found a ton of peers there from Catholic school. Like a previous poster said many of my classmates chose top Catholic colleges rather than applying to the Ivy League.

As PP said, why would you assume all of the graduates from religious schools are Catholic? Many, if not most, of the top schools in not just the DMV but in other cities are religious, but not Catholic. I’d be willing to bet at least half of this 13 percent attended non-Catholic religious school. Sidwell, St. Alban’s and NCS send more kids to the ivies than all the Catholic high schools in this area combined.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:True story. A friend of mine whose daughter attended MCPS through HS is now at Towson University. She is struggling because she doesn't know how to study. Because she never had exposure to mid term or final exams, she is having to learn how to study and is considering dropping a class or two. This is so sad.

Also, she was an honor student in HS FWIW.

True story, lots of MCPS kids go to top colleges, and they know how to study, and get good grades there.

I am talking about average kids here, not the ones who are going to magnets and W schools. Students who never take an AP class don't get exposure to cumulative testing experiences. There are lots of these kids, and if they can't succeed at a school like Towson, that is not a good look on MCPS. Sorry.

I know it's shocking but there are actually kids outside of magnet and W schools that do go to great colleges.

Of course there are. But not many.

and there are "not many" from catholics who get into great colleges.

There seemed to be a lot of people in the Catholic club at Princeton when I was there, but I agree a lot of my Catholic peers chose Notre Dame or Georgetown rather than excellent secular options.

"Because of its Presbyterian roots, Princeton did not really welcome “papists” until the early years of the twentieth century. Today, Catholics make up 20 to 25 percent of the student body, or roughly 1,200 students, and are the largest single religious group on campus." https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/catholicism-campus#:~:text=Because%20of%20its%20Presbyterian%20roots,single%20religious%20group%20on%20campus.

Do you realize that many Catholics don’t go to Catholic school, right?

PP here. Princeton reports that 13 percent of the Class of 2026 attended “religious affiliated” high schools, the majority of which presumably were Catholic. Another 17 percent attended independent day schools and 9 percent attended boarding schools. Sixty percent attended public schools. So it appears that both public and Catholic school graduates are underrepresented at Princeton, but public schools are the most poorly represented of them all.

College bound public school students are not underrepresented. You are counting public school graduates who are going to trade school, the military, starting to work right away. Plus the unlucky students who went to a poor public school with no access to anything but bare bone basics. Private schools are pretty much for students who are going to college.

Everything you said may be true, but that does not mean that statistically speaking public school students are under represented at Princeton. Both can be and are true.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:True story. A friend of mine whose daughter attended MCPS through HS is now at Towson University. She is struggling because she doesn't know how to study. Because she never had exposure to mid term or final exams, she is having to learn how to study and is considering dropping a class or two. This is so sad.

Also, she was an honor student in HS FWIW.

True story, lots of MCPS kids go to top colleges, and they know how to study, and get good grades there.

I am talking about average kids here, not the ones who are going to magnets and W schools. Students who never take an AP class don't get exposure to cumulative testing experiences. There are lots of these kids, and if they can't succeed at a school like Towson, that is not a good look on MCPS. Sorry.

I know it's shocking but there are actually kids outside of magnet and W schools that do go to great colleges.

Of course there are. But not many.

and there are "not many" from catholics who get into great colleges.

There seemed to be a lot of people in the Catholic club at Princeton when I was there, but I agree a lot of my Catholic peers chose Notre Dame or Georgetown rather than excellent secular options.

"Because of its Presbyterian roots, Princeton did not really welcome “papists” until the early years of the twentieth century. Today, Catholics make up 20 to 25 percent of the student body, or roughly 1,200 students, and are the largest single religious group on campus." https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/catholicism-campus#:~:text=Because%20of%20its%20Presbyterian%20roots,single%20religious%20group%20on%20campus.

Do you realize that many Catholics don’t go to Catholic school, right?

PP here. Princeton reports that 13 percent of the Class of 2026 attended “religious affiliated” high schools, the majority of which presumably were Catholic. Another 17 percent attended independent day schools and 9 percent attended boarding schools. Sixty percent attended public schools. So it appears that both public and Catholic school graduates are underrepresented at Princeton, but public schools are the most poorly represented of them all.

Why would you presume the majority of religious schools were Catholic? I wouldn’t be so sure. Just in DC alone, the top private schools are religious affiliated but also non-Catholic (St. Albans, National Cathedral School and Sidwell Friends).

You’re an idiot. No one ever said anything about “top,” and for every school you just named I can name ten local Catholic ones. On top of that, it’s unclear to me whether Princeton categorizes any or all of those schools as day schools or religiously affiliated ones. Also St Alban’s has a boarding component. I doubt Princeton places St Alban’s and Bishop O’Connell in the same category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:True story. A friend of mine whose daughter attended MCPS through HS is now at Towson University. She is struggling because she doesn't know how to study. Because she never had exposure to mid term or final exams, she is having to learn how to study and is considering dropping a class or two. This is so sad.

Also, she was an honor student in HS FWIW.

True story, lots of MCPS kids go to top colleges, and they know how to study, and get good grades there.

I am talking about average kids here, not the ones who are going to magnets and W schools. Students who never take an AP class don't get exposure to cumulative testing experiences. There are lots of these kids, and if they can't succeed at a school like Towson, that is not a good look on MCPS. Sorry.

I know it's shocking but there are actually kids outside of magnet and W schools that do go to great colleges.

Of course there are. But not many.

and there are "not many" from catholics who get into great colleges.

There seemed to be a lot of people in the Catholic club at Princeton when I was there, but I agree a lot of my Catholic peers chose Notre Dame or Georgetown rather than excellent secular options.

"Because of its Presbyterian roots, Princeton did not really welcome “papists” until the early years of the twentieth century. Today, Catholics make up 20 to 25 percent of the student body, or roughly 1,200 students, and are the largest single religious group on campus." https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/catholicism-campus#:~:text=Because%20of%20its%20Presbyterian%20roots,single%20religious%20group%20on%20campus.

Do you realize that many Catholics don’t go to Catholic school, right?

PP here. Princeton reports that 13 percent of the Class of 2026 attended “religious affiliated” high schools, the majority of which presumably were Catholic. Another 17 percent attended independent day schools and 9 percent attended boarding schools. Sixty percent attended public schools. So it appears that both public and Catholic school graduates are underrepresented at Princeton, but public schools are the most poorly represented of them all.

Why would you presume the majority of religious schools were Catholic? I wouldn’t be so sure. Just in DC alone, the top private schools are religious affiliated but also non-Catholic (St. Albans, National Cathedral School and Sidwell Friends).

You’re an idiot. No one ever said anything about “top,” and for every school you just named I can name ten local Catholic ones. On top of that, it’s unclear to me whether Princeton categorizes any or all of those schools as day schools or religiously affiliated ones. Also St Alban’s has a boarding component. I doubt Princeton places St Alban’s and Bishop O’Connell in the same category.

NP. An idiot? Why would you assume a “majority” of the religious affiliated high schools sending kids to Princeton are Catholic? There are tons of Episcopal and Quaker schools sending kids to Princeton. I have kids at both types of high schools - Catholic and Episcopal. We are Catholic. Episcopals and Quakers are quite good at education too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our Catholic school starts the day at 7:40 and ends at 3:20, our public elementary starts at 9:30 and ends at 3:30, so we have an extra nearly 2 hours a day of school time. We do one 2 hour long standardized test per year, seems like our public peers are spending more time in testing than we spend in mass. We start and end our school year earlier but we also have some days off for Catholic holidays, then again we have zero days off for Jewish, Muslim or other religious holidays.

Our kids do extremely well compared to their public peers academically, you really don’t need to have such grave concern for this neighbor of yours.

+1
my Catholic K-12 is a sophomore at an Ivy as are her friends (different T15 schools) so, yes, I feel that they were well prepared

[Anonymous]

Of course there are great students from other religious privates, many from non-religious privates and public schools also.
Keep in mind, this thread was started by an OP criticizing the rigor of ONlY Catholic schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the school but there are mixed views on that. Many people find that the basic writing and math skills taught in Catholic schools give them a stronger foundation than public schools when the kids get to high school.

What seems to lack is a broader degree of differentiation that you might get in public schools. Few if any K-8 Catholic kids get to Geometry for example. Advanced learners who might be in AAP and students at the other end of the spectrum don't necessarily have their needs met.

Catholic schools are a good fit for a run-of-the-mill student who also wants a religious component to their education.

+1. Most Catholic schools use tried-and-true teaching methods, rather than whichever educational fad is happening now. So most stuck with Phonics, avoiding the WholeLanguage / Balanced Literacy approach (which did not work for most students). More likely to have regular homework, use workbooks integrated with the curriculum, etc.

100% Perfect example is the disaster of "Balanced Literacy" which Catholic schools never used. Catholic schools always incorporated phonics in reading instructions. Public schools for many years stopped teaching phonics to make way for Lucy Calkins' curriculum. Eventually they figured out the disaster it was and went back to the science of reading. Catholic schools stayed the course of proven methods. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/22/us/reading-teaching-curriculum-phonics.html

Recent thread about the local privates that are still using Lucy Calkins when many public schools aren’t: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1156261.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our Catholic school starts the day at 7:40 and ends at 3:20, our public elementary starts at 9:30 and ends at 3:30, so we have an extra nearly 2 hours a day of school time. We do one 2 hour long standardized test per year, seems like our public peers are spending more time in testing than we spend in mass. We start and end our school year earlier but we also have some days off for Catholic holidays, then again we have zero days off for Jewish, Muslim or other religious holidays.

Our kids do extremely well compared to their public peers academically, you really don’t need to have such grave concern for this neighbor of yours.

+1
my Catholic K-12 is a sophomore at an Ivy as are her friends (different T15 schools) so, yes, I feel that they were well prepared

Amazingly, the public schools kids who end up at an Ivy are just as prepared, and their parents didn't have to shell out $$$ to pay for it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our experience was that there is a LOT of work and homework at the catholic school, but not a great DEPTH of study. So, “rigor” in the sense of very busy and generating lots of papers, but not a rigorous depth of learning necessarily and not any probing studying or wonder.

Traditional schools like catholic schools follow the rote memorization learning style of the 20th century. They don't ask "explain your thinking", which I know many parents and students alike hate. TBH, "explain your thinking" isn't applicable in all cases, but the reasoning behind the recent craze of "explain your thinking" is to spur critical thinking skills.

A lot of Asian countries still use the rote memorization teaching style but it's changing. [America?

Rote memorization is appropriate for young kids. Their brains are wired to memorize. Think about the perfectly average kids who have memorized all 800 Pokemon...that brainpower can easily be harnessed for real world facts. Analysis and critical thinking come in in the preteen years and it's usually pointless to push it earlier.

sure, but a lot of the traditional schools teach rote memorization all throughout the grades.

Really? Name one.

What type of math instruction does your catholic school use?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have mass for approx 45 mins once a week.

My oldest is doing the math sequence that ends with geometry in 8th (pre-a in 6th, algebra in 7th).

They have focused on the fundamentals (math, grammar, writing, spelling).

I think the weakest area is specials (art, PE, music).

Also, quite a bit of homework. They give zeroes and there isn’t a ton of leeway if you mess something up.

+1

My daughter switched to public middle this year from a Catholic school and went from probably around a C average to straight As in mostly honors classes, almost entirely because of the new ability to retake tests and turn assignments in late for credit.

My kid who got straight As switched to a Catholic MS and got mostly Bs and Cs and he had to work a lot harder to get them. Showing up and turning in some work shouldn't equal an A but it did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True story. A friend of mine whose daughter attended MCPS through HS is now at Towson University. She is struggling because she doesn't know how to study. Because she never had exposure to mid term or final exams, she is having to learn how to study and is considering dropping a class or two. This is so sad.

Also, she was an honor student in HS FWIW.

tbf.. "honors" classes mean nothing in some school districts. If she was really an "honor" student, she would not be at Towson. Just saying.

My DC is at UMD, and doing really really well, CS major. Straight As on midterms so far. Product of MCPS.

Such a snobby response. Lots of students go to state schools because of the cost.

[Anonymous]

You know what “rigor” is? Not taking TWO YEARS off for a respiratory virus, like publics did. Catholics were smart enough not to fall for that insanity.

[Anonymous]

What is wrong with you? I am switching my kids to Catholic school because public school in my opinion sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know what “rigor” is? Not taking TWO YEARS off for a respiratory virus, like publics did. Catholics were smart enough not to fall for that insanity.

+1