Other than bread/pastry I don't get the fuss about French cuisine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I agree. I’ve been to some really good French restaurants and the food is fine but I just don’t get excited for it.
Good itialian food, from every region. I could eat every day of my life. If I’m looking at different restaurant menus, frenzy is often my last pick.
And my Italian relatives say the French stole all the pastries from italy.

Right? I agree about Italy, good Italian food in Italy is truly amazing. Perhaps it is because I am from Europe? I am a naturalized American citizen, but I have never heard a single person back home or in Italy rave about the French cuisine. To me, they invented nothing, but the baguette and croissant and I wonder if it was really the Ottomans and Italians who influenced the layered sheet pastries.

Croissants are from Vienna
https://www.parisunlocked.com/food/food-history/history-of-the-croissant-how-france-adopted-it/

Ha, just as I posted. They stole it from my people! Central European food. My grandma was making similar pastries all the time.

Yes, the French stole croissants from your grandma. This must be correct.

The French developed an approach to food that essentially altered the history of food, globally, forever. It is not merely that the French developed and refined certain specific dishes that are now very well-loved (the French didn't invent bread or pastries, but they perfected items like the baguette and the croissant to a level and degree that is appreciated my even those from which these traditions may have been "stolen"), the French developed an approach to food that is more influential than any other tradition.

The modern restaurant (any restaurant), culinary schools, cook books, etc., all owe most of their current incarnation to traditions that emerged in France beginning in the 16th and 17th centuries.

Name another culinary tradition with that degree of influence. No one cares if you like beef bourguignon (I actually do not). Arguing that French cuisine is not very good is like claiming Italians don't understand opera.

Links to these claims that French altered the history of food, globally, forever... I mean you gonna make such outrageous claims you better have some supporting evidence for it.

"Outrageous claims"? Amazing. Apologies for assuming that people on this thread would have some extremely basic knowledge about the history of cuisine.

The French invented the restaurant: https://www.fastcompany.com/90669668/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-restaurant
August Escoffier and the development of "cuisine": https://www.iwfs.org/americas/wine-food---friends-1/articles/auguste-escoffier--founder-of-modern-cuisine
Le Cordon Bleu and the development of culinary school/cooking academies: https://www.cordonbleu.edu/news/paris-school-opening/en#:~:text=The%20magazine%20was%20so%20successful,1895%20with%20Chef%20Charles%20Driessens.
A good history of French influence on Europe and beyond, in food but also in the arts, language, politics, and culture: https://lithub.com/how-french-cuisine-took-over-the-world/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do like Italian more.

I think the obsession with French cuisine is that it's seen as "fancier" due in large part to Versailles and pre revolutionary France.

The French turned cooking into an art. Literally -- the development of haute cuisine paralleled similar evolutions in dance, painting, and poetry, and the culinary arts are considered part of the French cultural tradition in a way similar to ballet or French poetry.

In other words, French cuisine actually was fancier than other culinary traditions, not simply perceived as such. Now, fancy doesn't always mean better, and many culinary traditions with much more humble beginnings have produced extraordinary food. But the French tradition produced food with a level of refinement that you don't see elsewhere. The reason most chefs (worldwide) study French cuisine is that level of refinement, which forces a great attention to detail, the balancing of flavors, and presentation that elevate food from simple nourishment to a full sensory experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do like Italian more.

I think the obsession with French cuisine is that it's seen as "fancier" due in large part to Versailles and pre revolutionary France.

The French turned cooking into an art. Literally -- the development of haute cuisine paralleled similar evolutions in dance, painting, and poetry, and the culinary arts are considered part of the French cultural tradition in a way similar to ballet or French poetry.

In other words, French cuisine actually was fancier than other culinary traditions, not simply perceived as such. Now, fancy doesn't always mean better, and many culinary traditions with much more humble beginnings have produced extraordinary food. But the French tradition produced food with a level of refinement that you don't see elsewhere. The reason most chefs (worldwide) study French cuisine is that level of refinement, which forces a great attention to detail, the balancing of flavors, and presentation that elevate food from simple nourishment to a full sensory experience.

I remain steadfast that other culinary traditions, such as Viennese, Turkish, and Italian are superior and more refined than the French, who just thieved others' tortes and pastries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do like Italian more.

I think the obsession with French cuisine is that it's seen as "fancier" due in large part to Versailles and pre revolutionary France.

The French turned cooking into an art. Literally -- the development of haute cuisine paralleled similar evolutions in dance, painting, and poetry, and the culinary arts are considered part of the French cultural tradition in a way similar to ballet or French poetry.

In other words, French cuisine actually was fancier than other culinary traditions, not simply perceived as such. Now, fancy doesn't always mean better, and many culinary traditions with much more humble beginnings have produced extraordinary food. But the French tradition produced food with a level of refinement that you don't see elsewhere. The reason most chefs (worldwide) study French cuisine is that level of refinement, which forces a great attention to detail, the balancing of flavors, and presentation that elevate food from simple nourishment to a full sensory experience.

I remain steadfast that other culinary traditions, such as Viennese, Turkish, and Italian are superior and more refined than the French, who just thieved others' tortes and pastries.

The Viennese are wonderful with pastries. The rest of their culinary tradition is a weird mishmash of French, German, and Easter European traditions. It's nothing special, which is why no one ever says "oh, let's go out for Viennese!"

Italian food is of course phenomenal and a good example of a country refining it's native, rustic fare and elevating it to something special. I'll also note that this happened by using French culinary techniques in Italian dishes. It's still distinctly Italian, but I don't know if you get modern Italian food without the French innovations in culinary techniques.

Turkish food is unique in the ways Turkey is unique, a doorway between Europe, the Middle East, and Asia. Wonderful food in Turkey but if you think the French "stole" their food from other places, uh, I would like you to read some Turkish history and get back to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do like Italian more.

I think the obsession with French cuisine is that it's seen as "fancier" due in large part to Versailles and pre revolutionary France.

The French turned cooking into an art. Literally -- the development of haute cuisine paralleled similar evolutions in dance, painting, and poetry, and the culinary arts are considered part of the French cultural tradition in a way similar to ballet or French poetry.

In other words, French cuisine actually was fancier than other culinary traditions, not simply perceived as such. Now, fancy doesn't always mean better, and many culinary traditions with much more humble beginnings have produced extraordinary food. But the French tradition produced food with a level of refinement that you don't see elsewhere. The reason most chefs (worldwide) study French cuisine is that level of refinement, which forces a great attention to detail, the balancing of flavors, and presentation that elevate food from simple nourishment to a full sensory experience.

I remain steadfast that other culinary traditions, such as Viennese, Turkish, and Italian are superior and more refined than the French, who just thieved others' tortes and pastries.

The Viennese are wonderful with pastries. The rest of their culinary tradition is a weird mishmash of French, German, and Easter European traditions. It's nothing special, which is why no one ever says "oh, let's go out for Viennese!"

Italian food is of course phenomenal and a good example of a country refining it's native, rustic fare and elevating it to something special. I'll also note that this happened by using French culinary techniques in Italian dishes. It's still distinctly Italian, but I don't know if you get modern Italian food without the French innovations in culinary techniques.

Turkish food is unique in the ways Turkey is unique, a doorway between Europe, the Middle East, and Asia. Wonderful food in Turkey but if you think the French "stole" their food from other places, uh, I would like you to read some Turkish history and get back to me.

Considering French took all the techniques from the Italians....I would hardly dare mention your statement that Italians are using French innovations in their cooking. Which invoations are those please?

[Anonymous]

I prefer Spanish and Italian cuisine to French, considering "neighboring countries."

This is perhaps beyond the scope of this discussion, but much of our perception of the "prestige" of a cultural cuisine is tied to how much of it is available in the US (how many recent immigrants have come to the US from that region). So French and Japanese cuisines are traditionally considered prestige cuisines, with restaurants able to charge higher prices, while Italian and Chinese food are not considered prestigious, because of the large amounts of Italian and Chinese immigration to the US.

But, it is also tied to prejudice against certain cultures (racism?).

https://www.wnyc.org/story/hierarchy-taste-why-some-cuisines-are-more-expensive-others/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do like Italian more.

I think the obsession with French cuisine is that it's seen as "fancier" due in large part to Versailles and pre revolutionary France.

The French turned cooking into an art. Literally -- the development of haute cuisine paralleled similar evolutions in dance, painting, and poetry, and the culinary arts are considered part of the French cultural tradition in a way similar to ballet or French poetry.

In other words, French cuisine actually was fancier than other culinary traditions, not simply perceived as such. Now, fancy doesn't always mean better, and many culinary traditions with much more humble beginnings have produced extraordinary food. But the French tradition produced food with a level of refinement that you don't see elsewhere. The reason most chefs (worldwide) study French cuisine is that level of refinement, which forces a great attention to detail, the balancing of flavors, and presentation that elevate food from simple nourishment to a full sensory experience.

I remain steadfast that other culinary traditions, such as Viennese, Turkish, and Italian are superior and more refined than the French, who just thieved others' tortes and pastries.

Where can I eat Turkish food?
The Viennese are wonderful with pastries. The rest of their culinary tradition is a weird mishmash of French, German, and Easter European traditions. It's nothing special, which is why no one ever says "oh, let's go out for Viennese!"

Italian food is of course phenomenal and a good example of a country refining it's native, rustic fare and elevating it to something special. I'll also note that this happened by using French culinary techniques in Italian dishes. It's still distinctly Italian, but I don't know if you get modern Italian food without the French innovations in culinary techniques.

Turkish food is unique in the ways Turkey is unique, a doorway between Europe, the Middle East, and Asia. Wonderful food in Turkey but if you think the French "stole" their food from other places, uh, I would like you to read some Turkish history and get back to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do like Italian more.

I think the obsession with French cuisine is that it's seen as "fancier" due in large part to Versailles and pre revolutionary France.

The French turned cooking into an art. Literally -- the development of haute cuisine paralleled similar evolutions in dance, painting, and poetry, and the culinary arts are considered part of the French cultural tradition in a way similar to ballet or French poetry.

In other words, French cuisine actually was fancier than other culinary traditions, not simply perceived as such. Now, fancy doesn't always mean better, and many culinary traditions with much more humble beginnings have produced extraordinary food. But the French tradition produced food with a level of refinement that you don't see elsewhere. The reason most chefs (worldwide) study French cuisine is that level of refinement, which forces a great attention to detail, the balancing of flavors, and presentation that elevate food from simple nourishment to a full sensory experience.

I remain steadfast that other culinary traditions, such as Viennese, Turkish, and Italian are superior and more refined than the French, who just thieved others' tortes and pastries.

Where can I eat Turkish food?
The Viennese are wonderful with pastries. The rest of their culinary tradition is a weird mishmash of French, German, and Easter European traditions. It's nothing special, which is why no one ever says "oh, let's go out for Viennese!"

Italian food is of course phenomenal and a good example of a country refining it's native, rustic fare and elevating it to something special. I'll also note that this happened by using French culinary techniques in Italian dishes. It's still distinctly Italian, but I don't know if you get modern Italian food without the French innovations in culinary techniques.

Turkish food is unique in the ways Turkey is unique, a doorway between Europe, the Middle East, and Asia. Wonderful food in Turkey but if you think the French "stole" their food from other places, uh, I would like you to read some Turkish history and get back to me.

Where can I eat Turkish food (don't say Turkey)

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all who took one of my favorite DCUM forums and injected the charm of the Schools Discussion and the acrimony of the Political Discussion.
Ah, DCUM 4 evah.

[Anonymous]

The only thing I ever got from French cuisine was freedom fries. People who eat snails and frogs are strange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of ignorance on this thread, starting with the OP who sounds like a moron. Wow.

I agree! She puts the "ugly" in " ugly American".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of ignorance on this thread, starting with the OP who sounds like a moron. Wow.

I agree! She puts the "ugly" in " ugly American".

I mean by other pps posts, it was the American cuisine that was appalling and canned and horrid and that is why you took to the French cuisine. The rest of the world ate bread and butter and ham long time ago and didn't need the French to "invent" it for them. Ever heard of smorgasbord? Oh, no we call that charcuterie and are now uppity and fancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I agree. I’ve been to some really good French restaurants and the food is fine but I just don’t get excited for it.
Good itialian food, from every region. I could eat every day of my life. If I’m looking at different restaurant menus, frenzy is often my last pick.
And my Italian relatives say the French stole all the pastries from italy.

Right? I agree about Italy, good Italian food in Italy is truly amazing. Perhaps it is because I am from Europe? I am a naturalized American citizen, but I have never heard a single person back home or in Italy rave about the French cuisine. To me, they invented nothing, but the baguette and croissant and I wonder if it was really the Ottomans and Italians who influenced the layered sheet pastries.

Croissants are from Vienna
https://www.parisunlocked.com/food/food-history/history-of-the-croissant-how-france-adopted-it/

Ha, just as I posted. They stole it from my people! Central European food. My grandma was making similar pastries all the time.

Yes, the French stole croissants from your grandma. This must be correct.

The French developed an approach to food that essentially altered the history of food, globally, forever. It is not merely that the French developed and refined certain specific dishes that are now very well-loved (the French didn't invent bread or pastries, but they perfected items like the baguette and the croissant to a level and degree that is appreciated my even those from which these traditions may have been "stolen"), the French developed an approach to food that is more influential than any other tradition.

The modern restaurant (any restaurant), culinary schools, cook books, etc., all owe most of their current incarnation to traditions that emerged in France beginning in the 16th and 17th centuries.

Name another culinary tradition with that degree of influence. No one cares if you like beef bourguignon (I actually do not). Arguing that French cuisine is not very good is like claiming Italians don't understand opera.

Links to these claims that French altered the history of food, globally, forever... I mean you gonna make such outrageous claims you better have some supporting evidence for it.

"Outrageous claims"? Amazing. Apologies for assuming that people on this thread would have some extremely basic knowledge about the history of cuisine.

The French invented the restaurant: https://www.fastcompany.com/90669668/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-restaurant
August Escoffier and the development of "cuisine": https://www.iwfs.org/americas/wine-food---friends-1/articles/auguste-escoffier--founder-of-modern-cuisine
Le Cordon Bleu and the development of culinary school/cooking academies: https://www.cordonbleu.edu/news/paris-school-opening/en#:~:text=The%20magazine%20was%20so%20successful,1895%20with%20Chef%20Charles%20Driessens.
A good history of French influence on Europe and beyond, in food but also in the arts, language, politics, and culture: https://lithub.com/how-french-cuisine-took-over-the-world/

That dates the first restaurant to 1765. Almost every European country has pubs or inns hundreds of years older than that that are still open. If you are looking for something more ancient https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermopolium.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I agree. I’ve been to some really good French restaurants and the food is fine but I just don’t get excited for it.
Good itialian food, from every region. I could eat every day of my life. If I’m looking at different restaurant menus, frenzy is often my last pick.
And my Italian relatives say the French stole all the pastries from italy.

Right? I agree about Italy, good Italian food in Italy is truly amazing. Perhaps it is because I am from Europe? I am a naturalized American citizen, but I have never heard a single person back home or in Italy rave about the French cuisine. To me, they invented nothing, but the baguette and croissant and I wonder if it was really the Ottomans and Italians who influenced the layered sheet pastries.

Croissants are from Vienna
https://www.parisunlocked.com/food/food-history/history-of-the-croissant-how-france-adopted-it/

Ha, just as I posted. They stole it from my people! Central European food. My grandma was making similar pastries all the time.

Yes, the French stole croissants from your grandma. This must be correct.

The French developed an approach to food that essentially altered the history of food, globally, forever. It is not merely that the French developed and refined certain specific dishes that are now very well-loved (the French didn't invent bread or pastries, but they perfected items like the baguette and the croissant to a level and degree that is appreciated my even those from which these traditions may have been "stolen"), the French developed an approach to food that is more influential than any other tradition.

The modern restaurant (any restaurant), culinary schools, cook books, etc., all owe most of their current incarnation to traditions that emerged in France beginning in the 16th and 17th centuries.

Name another culinary tradition with that degree of influence. No one cares if you like beef bourguignon (I actually do not). Arguing that French cuisine is not very good is like claiming Italians don't understand opera.

Links to these claims that French altered the history of food, globally, forever... I mean you gonna make such outrageous claims you better have some supporting evidence for it.

"Outrageous claims"? Amazing. Apologies for assuming that people on this thread would have some extremely basic knowledge about the history of cuisine.

The French invented the restaurant: https://www.fastcompany.com/90669668/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-restaurant
August Escoffier and the development of "cuisine": https://www.iwfs.org/americas/wine-food---friends-1/articles/auguste-escoffier--founder-of-modern-cuisine
Le Cordon Bleu and the development of culinary school/cooking academies: https://www.cordonbleu.edu/news/paris-school-opening/en#:~:text=The%20magazine%20was%20so%20successful,1895%20with%20Chef%20Charles%20Driessens.
A good history of French influence on Europe and beyond, in food but also in the arts, language, politics, and culture: https://lithub.com/how-french-cuisine-took-over-the-world/

That dates the first restaurant to 1765. Almost every European country has pubs or inns hundreds of years older than that that are still open. If you are looking for something more ancient https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermopolium.

Thanks for contributing and knowing what Socratic method is. Sadly, most pps here just rage about their opinion being the one and all.

[Anonymous]

The op has a beef against the French. Either that or she has the most unrefined palate either. Lumpia and pho! Hahaha!