Why are the service academies so selective?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a serious question??

Do you want the leaders of our military to be anything but the brightest and best?

They are not the brightest.
Average SAT only 1300

The SATs are not a very accurate test of intelligence.

Beyond the bias issues which have been clearly established and accepted by academia as a real problem, a whole lot of kids who are very bright don’t get the benefit of interventions and test prep that UMC families can provide.

I personally faltered badly taking the SATs because of zero prep opportunities, test anxiety that I had no means of addressing, and the abuse I was suffering in the home that prevented me focusing on the test and academics in general in H.S.

Because of my low SATs I started college at a community college offshoot of the state university where I went on to earn two bachelors degrees with two concentrations and then a masters degree (very high GRE scores) with a TA position, then a LSAT score in the 98th% and acceptance at five top tier law schools and a JD from one of them. I’ve also since tested Mensa qualifying level IQ.

SATs are a really poor measure of best and brightest. There are plenty of duds in this society who once got a great SAT score.

I don’t think the SAT is designed or intended to be an IQ test.

And if I had dollar bill for every self reported Mensa level IQ score on DCUM there would be a mountain of money piled up to my chin.

[Anonymous]

Dumb people on DCUM think it sounds smart to say rich people can buy higher SAT scores with test prep.

Really, they can't. All that expensive test prep achieves is it makes the kid practice, which they could do for free. And the improvement isn't that great anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a serious question??

Do you want the leaders of our military to be anything but the brightest and best?

They are not the brightest.
Average SAT only 1300

1300 is 86th percentile - that is excellent and not a thing you should say "only" about.

I guess it depends what your definition of "the brightest is".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The professionals at West Point are super aware of what IBM can do now, and of what it will be able to do in the future.

https://mwi.westpoint.edu/artificial-intelligence-future-warfare-just-not-way-think/

And the professionals at IBM know a good customer when they see one. And if that isn't plain and clear enough here is a video of IBM and West Point cadets partnering together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB8_GnbQVy4

Oh wow... yea... cadets and IBM executives side by side. I guess there is some kind of pipeline after all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because more people are interested in that education and experience than they can accommodate.

But why? We don't currently know any, and we're a military family (dual, at one point in time).

The academies, particularly West Point and Annapolis, have long been regarded as elite schools. There are very few 18 year olds who are fit enough, smart enough, and well-rounded enough to get a Congressional Nomination, which is necessary to be considered for admittance. Upon graduation - debt free - graduates are obliged to serve as officers for four years. The pay isn't bad these days, particulalrly since a young officer has basically no expenses, and the job is probably a lot more interesting than most first jobs. Academy grads tend to get first priority for the more desirable tracks.

The M7 business schools love academy grads. So too does MBB consulting. Not to mention the corporate world. An academy degree probably doesn't do much in tech, but elsewhere it opens a lot of doors. The networking is unparalleled.

It's not for everyone, but for the right kid, it's a great launching pad.

It actually opens a lot of doors in tech. Showing you can get a computer science or engineering degree from one of the academies while balancing the other demands is a huge plus for tech companies. We have a family friend whose kid is majoring in CS at one of the academies. He is a sophomore and has already been approached by tech companies about joining after he is done serving.

LOL. No tech company plans 6+ years ahead.

IBM does. So does Honeywell. Probably many, many others.

Strange, I work in HR for IBM, and this is not true. We'll look into freshmen as regular universities, sure. Not a sophomore with a 4-6 year commitment after graduation. That's almost a decade for things to change!

Strange, my DH graduated from USNA, went on to serve in the Marine Corp knowing that his job at IBM was waiting for him. Guess they just didn't consult you.

Strange, your DH lied. Not surprising he couldn't hack it more than 4-6 years.

+1. It’s an ethics violation to accept an offer of employment without permission of your chain of command and an opinion from an ethics counselor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They're not actually that selective. They juice their "acceptance rates" by including mountains of incomplete applications. A kid who's at least a reasonably good student and at least a reasonably good athlete who completes his application and doesn't get medically DQ'd is well more likely than not to be admitted to any of the service academies.

Do you have sources for ANY of these claims?

[Anonymous]

The problem for our troll friend here is that it is more difficult for them to denigrate service academy students as "not that bright" when there is documentary evidence of organizations such as IBM recruiting directly from these schools. Showing that they are willing to wait years for the graduates to finish their compulsory service.

Just doesn't work with the yarn they are spinning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Published July 2023:

"The West Point Acceptance Rate originates from the total number of applicants that start files with the West Point Admissions team. This doesn’t include qualified candidates, only students who are interested in attending. They haven’t received a congressional nomination yet or gone through any of the admissions processes. From a recent class profile, this totals 12,294.

Since only 1,210 were admitted, this leads the public to believe that the admissions rate was 9.8%.

In reality, only 2,228 were qualified academically and in physical aptitude according to the admissions team. This results in a much higher acceptance rate of 54% if you are qualified."

Published where? How do they get away with this?

I don’t get it. First of all, get away with what, exactly? And secondly, it sounds like applicants are just effectively getting their “rejection letters” earlier in the process than at a typical college.

(AFAIK colleges don’t refuse to let you even apply if they don’t consider you qualified, they just don’t waste any time rejecting you. But please correct me if I am wrong!)

[Anonymous]

This thread shows that lots of parents are extremely jealous and bitter because they know their offspring don’t have what it takes to go be selected for a service academy. For the most part, kids need a lot of qualities that money can’t buy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Published July 2023:

"The West Point Acceptance Rate originates from the total number of applicants that start files with the West Point Admissions team. This doesn’t include qualified candidates, only students who are interested in attending. They haven’t received a congressional nomination yet or gone through any of the admissions processes. From a recent class profile, this totals 12,294.

Since only 1,210 were admitted, this leads the public to believe that the admissions rate was 9.8%.

In reality, only 2,228 were qualified academically and in physical aptitude according to the admissions team. This results in a much higher acceptance rate of 54% if you are qualified."

It’s not really a fair comparison to normal college admissions, because a lot of kids wash out for medical reasons — e.g., if you ever had asthma, used anti-anxiety medication, etc. you will be disqualified. They are that strict because they can be and it is one way to thin out the application pile. It’s like looking at the acceptance rate for Harvard for kids with perfect SAT scores and grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Published July 2023:

"The West Point Acceptance Rate originates from the total number of applicants that start files with the West Point Admissions team. This doesn’t include qualified candidates, only students who are interested in attending. They haven’t received a congressional nomination yet or gone through any of the admissions processes. From a recent class profile, this totals 12,294.

Since only 1,210 were admitted, this leads the public to believe that the admissions rate was 9.8%.

In reality, only 2,228 were qualified academically and in physical aptitude according to the admissions team. This results in a much higher acceptance rate of 54% if you are qualified."

It’s not really a fair comparison to normal college admissions, because a lot of kids wash out for medical reasons — e.g., if you ever had asthma, used anti-anxiety medication, etc. you will be disqualified. They are that strict because they can be and it is one way to thin out the application pile. It’s like looking at the acceptance rate for Harvard for kids with perfect SAT scores and grades.

Most of kids are healthy normal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Published July 2023:

"The West Point Acceptance Rate originates from the total number of applicants that start files with the West Point Admissions team. This doesn’t include qualified candidates, only students who are interested in attending. They haven’t received a congressional nomination yet or gone through any of the admissions processes. From a recent class profile, this totals 12,294.

Since only 1,210 were admitted, this leads the public to believe that the admissions rate was 9.8%.

In reality, only 2,228 were qualified academically and in physical aptitude according to the admissions team. This results in a much higher acceptance rate of 54% if you are qualified."

It’s not really a fair comparison to normal college admissions, because a lot of kids wash out for medical reasons — e.g., if you ever had asthma, used anti-anxiety medication, etc. you will be disqualified. They are that strict because they can be and it is one way to thin out the application pile. It’s like looking at the acceptance rate for Harvard for kids with perfect SAT scores and grades.

Most of kids are healthy normal

My daughter was disqualified because of a stress fracture. You would consider her healthy. You don’t know what you are talking about.
A HUGE amount of kids would be disqualified from my own childrens’ peer group based on use of anti-anxiety meds, peanut allergies, accutane, and asthma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Published July 2023:

"The West Point Acceptance Rate originates from the total number of applicants that start files with the West Point Admissions team. This doesn’t include qualified candidates, only students who are interested in attending. They haven’t received a congressional nomination yet or gone through any of the admissions processes. From a recent class profile, this totals 12,294.

Since only 1,210 were admitted, this leads the public to believe that the admissions rate was 9.8%.

In reality, only 2,228 were qualified academically and in physical aptitude according to the admissions team. This results in a much higher acceptance rate of 54% if you are qualified."

It’s not really a fair comparison to normal college admissions, because a lot of kids wash out for medical reasons — e.g., if you ever had asthma, used anti-anxiety medication, etc. you will be disqualified. They are that strict because they can be and it is one way to thin out the application pile. It’s like looking at the acceptance rate for Harvard for kids with perfect SAT scores and grades.

Most of kids are healthy normal

I'm afraid not. Only 23 percent of Americans between the ages 0f 17-24 are even eligible to join the military. Obesity is the biggest reason. Very few young Americans are fit enough to join. Add addiction and criminal charges. Throw in certain conditions like ADHD and other mental health issues. Plus medical issues. And the pool of eligible young Americans is pretty small. And that's just to enlist.

As for the academies, all those things get caught before a formal application is submitted. And, as has been mentioned before, you need a Congressional Nomination to apply to West Point, Annapolis, or the Air Force Academy. Those are difficult to get. You need to be an exceptional person to get one. Applying to the academies is nothing like applying to a regular college. It's pointless to compare.

[Anonymous]

Re counting applicants that didn’t finish applying, my kid is Hispanic and 2 large famous public universities accepted her even though she didn’t complete the application process. One even gave her a big scholarship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread shows that lots of parents are extremely jealous and bitter because they know their offspring don’t have what it takes to go be selected for a service academy. For the most part, kids need a lot of qualities that money can’t buy.

Anonymous wrote:It’s not really a fair comparison to normal college admissions, because a lot of kids wash out for medical reasons — e.g., if you ever had asthma, used anti-anxiety medication, etc. you will be disqualified. They are that strict because they can be and it is one way to thin out the application pile. It’s like looking at the acceptance rate for Harvard for kids with perfect SAT scores and grades.

Anonymous wrote:Most of kids are healthy normal

Anonymous wrote:I'm afraid not. Only 23 percent of Americans between the ages 0f 17-24 are even eligible to join the military. Obesity is the biggest reason. Very few young Americans are fit enough to join. Add addiction and criminal charges. Throw in certain conditions like ADHD and other mental health issues. Plus medical issues. And the pool of eligible young Americans is pretty small. And that's just to enlist.

As for the academies, all those things get caught before a formal application is submitted. And, as has been mentioned before, you need a Congressional Nomination to apply to West Point, Annapolis, or the Air Force Academy. Those are difficult to get. You need to be an exceptional person to get one. Applying to the academies is nothing like applying to a regular college. It's pointless to compare.

This. There is no amount of money, medicine, or surgical procedure that will get our DC with excellent grades, test scores, EC, and (most importantly, IMHO) the temperament and desire.....eligible to even apply for a Service Academy.

Even for the ones who are eligible, it is highly selective -- just maybe not in a traditional way. As a PP said, it's selective because they can be and because they need to be.