AP exams free next year?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Even putting $1000 on a credit card at 20%/yr s a better deal than any year of college. Financial aid for lower middle class isn't that generous.

The real risk is the wasted money from all the kids who will fail the AP tests. MoCo already has a 25% failure rate, sure to increase when tests are free.

This is what happens when you let anyone sign up for AP classes. Students should have a proven track record of academic success in previous honors courses prior to being allowed in AP classes.

Don't even need that. Just need to give legit quarterly exams to show progress and qualify for AP exam. Nothing wrong with exposing whoever wants to the material, so long as they aren't disruptive.

When the teacher has to slow down the class because there are students in it who don't belong, it affects everyone.

No one "has to" slow down. That's a bad teacher who needs to do their job properly.

This is my neighbor’s biggest issue with teaching AP classes. She has students in some of her classes who cannot do the work because they read below grade level and have frequent absences. Because of the public school district’s obsession with equity, those students are allowed to sign up for her classes. She’s required to accommodate them which slows down the students who are prepared for the class.

It shouldn’t. Accommodation can take many forms. PowerPoint outline notes (they provide this in college and med school). Dedicated time to stop by during lunch or after school for assistance. Referral to tutoring or support class. Referral for reading evaluation services. Email reminder to entire class the week of exams and ensuring dates are correct and up to date in Canvas. Request if a conference w/ student and counselor. Study guides. None of these require slowing down the class.

AP classes are not on-level courses. Kids should not be gate kept from them and should be encouraged to take challenges. They should also be provided the expectations of taking such as class (ie you will need to devote 30-45 mins per night to this class).

You are completely unrealistic about what happens in classrooms. The teacher is not going to let the unprepared kids fail; the class will inevitably have to move slower. - AP teacher

We’re not unrealistic about what happens in some classes. What we’re saying is there is no reason to slow down a class unless the greater majority of the class is not prepared. This doesn’t mean “letting” the unprepared kids fail. Set expectations clearly set up front, document them, provide the necessary supports and resources for students.

Just like students are coached to choose challenging courses, they can be coached to put in the necessary effort to pass.

Additionally, what needs to be looked at is if kids have been provided the supports early on to ensure they are prepared for challenging courses. That could be summer programs, tutoring, etc.

When those students are minorities, you'd better believe the teacher is instructed to slow down the class if that's what is required for students to pass. Lots of reteaching, retakes, offering personal time (before/after, lunch breaks) is expected. I only wish the student's grade in the class was heavily based on their test score. But since students aren't required to take the test, that won't happen.

Is it true that students are not required to take AP tests? I don't understand how it's okay to get the GPA boost from taking an AP, but not be required to take the test.

This has been the case for eons. I've been out of HS for 35 years. I took two AP classes (HS only offered 3, and the AP calc class was at 7am which I wasn't going to do), but I only took one AP exam because that's all I could afford.

So if the county is going to pay for them, will they also make the test mandatory?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even putting $1000 on a credit card at 20%/yr s a better deal than any year of college. Financial aid for lower middle class isn't that generous.

The real risk is the wasted money from all the kids who will fail the AP tests. MoCo already has a 25% failure rate, sure to increase when tests are free.

This is what happens when you let anyone sign up for AP classes. Students should have a proven track record of academic success in previous honors courses prior to being allowed in AP classes.

Don't even need that. Just need to give legit quarterly exams to show progress and qualify for AP exam. Nothing wrong with exposing whoever wants to the material, so long as they aren't disruptive.

When the teacher has to slow down the class because there are students in it who don't belong, it affects everyone.

No one "has to" slow down. That's a bad teacher who needs to do their job properly.

This is my neighbor’s biggest issue with teaching AP classes. She has students in some of her classes who cannot do the work because they read below grade level and have frequent absences. Because of the public school district’s obsession with equity, those students are allowed to sign up for her classes. She’s required to accommodate them which slows down the students who are prepared for the class.

It shouldn’t. Accommodation can take many forms. PowerPoint outline notes (they provide this in college and med school). Dedicated time to stop by during lunch or after school for assistance. Referral to tutoring or support class. Referral for reading evaluation services. Email reminder to entire class the week of exams and ensuring dates are correct and up to date in Canvas. Request if a conference w/ student and counselor. Study guides. None of these require slowing down the class.

AP classes are not on-level courses. Kids should not be gate kept from them and should be encouraged to take challenges. They should also be provided the expectations of taking such as class (ie you will need to devote 30-45 mins per night to this class).

You are completely unrealistic about what happens in classrooms. The teacher is not going to let the unprepared kids fail; the class will inevitably have to move slower. - AP teacher

We’re not unrealistic about what happens in some classes. What we’re saying is there is no reason to slow down a class unless the greater majority of the class is not prepared. This doesn’t mean “letting” the unprepared kids fail. Set expectations clearly set up front, document them, provide the necessary supports and resources for students.

Just like students are coached to choose challenging courses, they can be coached to put in the necessary effort to pass.

Additionally, what needs to be looked at is if kids have been provided the supports early on to ensure they are prepared for challenging courses. That could be summer programs, tutoring, etc.

When those students are minorities, you'd better believe the teacher is instructed to slow down the class if that's what is required for students to pass. Lots of reteaching, retakes, offering personal time (before/after, lunch breaks) is expected. I only wish the student's grade in the class was heavily based on their test score. But since students aren't required to take the test, that won't happen.

Is it true that students are not required to take AP tests? I don't understand how it's okay to get the GPA boost from taking an AP, but not be required to take the test.

This has been the case for eons. I've been out of HS for 35 years. I took two AP classes (HS only offered 3, and the AP calc class was at 7am which I wasn't going to do), but I only took one AP exam because that's all I could afford.

So if the county is going to pay for them, will they also make the test mandatory?

My son is taking 5 APs this year. As a student you still have to opt in.

[Anonymous]

Also it would be cheaper for our government to pay for AP exams then to have our president forgive student debt

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:That's ridiculous. Montgomery County is one of the wealthiest areas of the country. Why pay for AP exams for students whose parents can easily afford them?

Agree. Pay for AP exams for FARMS kids, and let everyone else pay for their own.

This. This is what I meant. Wealthy people, including the PP, can afford to pay themselves.

So you'd rather pay to implement means-testing?

NP. They could just offer it for free to kids who receive FARMs.

"They" who? "Just"? The way it works now, each student has to register with the College Board for the AP test(s) or with the International Baccalaureate for the IB test(s), and then separately ask MCPS for help paying. How much additional work do you want to load on the counselors? Is the savings for FARMS-only vs. everyone worth it in order to satisfy your feeling that non-poor parents should be responsible for paying for the tests?

This is how it has been done for years…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's ridiculous. Montgomery County is one of the wealthiest areas of the country. Why pay for AP exams for students whose parents can easily afford them?

I think you’d be surprised, if you stepped out of your bubble, that there are lots and lots of middle class families who I guess can make tough choices and find the money, but when your child takes multiple exams and maybe you have multiple children, it is not some small amount. The threshold to qualify for FARMS is very low poverty. There are lots of people above the threshold who aren’t wealthy and this eliminates a barrier for those students. I am tired of everyone assuming everyone is so wealthy. Everything has gone up in price and is so expensive. FARMS families get various supports (and also often get paid cash and may earn more than is reported) and middle and working class families just keep getting squeezed.

There were always partial waivers that you could apply for from CB. But honestly, your child could babysit a few times and pay for some of their own tests. $97 gets wasted all of the time by teenagers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's ridiculous. Montgomery County is one of the wealthiest areas of the country. Why pay for AP exams for students whose parents can easily afford them?

I think you’d be surprised, if you stepped out of your bubble, that there are lots and lots of middle class families who I guess can make tough choices and find the money, but when your child takes multiple exams and maybe you have multiple children, it is not some small amount. The threshold to qualify for FARMS is very low poverty. There are lots of people above the threshold who aren’t wealthy and this eliminates a barrier for those students. I am tired of everyone assuming everyone is so wealthy. Everything has gone up in price and is so expensive. FARMS families get various supports (and also often get paid cash and may earn more than is reported) and middle and working class families just keep getting squeezed.

There were always partial waivers that you could apply for from CB. But honestly, your child could babysit a few times and pay for some of their own tests. $97 gets wasted all of the time by teenagers.

Let them eat cake!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even putting $1000 on a credit card at 20%/yr s a better deal than any year of college. Financial aid for lower middle class isn't that generous.

The real risk is the wasted money from all the kids who will fail the AP tests. MoCo already has a 25% failure rate, sure to increase when tests are free.

This is what happens when you let anyone sign up for AP classes. Students should have a proven track record of academic success in previous honors courses prior to being allowed in AP classes.

Don't even need that. Just need to give legit quarterly exams to show progress and qualify for AP exam. Nothing wrong with exposing whoever wants to the material, so long as they aren't disruptive.

In reality, though, the pace of the class is slower because many kids are not prepared. It’s unavoidable. - AP teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even putting $1000 on a credit card at 20%/yr s a better deal than any year of college. Financial aid for lower middle class isn't that generous.

The real risk is the wasted money from all the kids who will fail the AP tests. MoCo already has a 25% failure rate, sure to increase when tests are free.

This is what happens when you let anyone sign up for AP classes. Students should have a proven track record of academic success in previous honors courses prior to being allowed in AP classes.

Don't even need that. Just need to give legit quarterly exams to show progress and qualify for AP exam. Nothing wrong with exposing whoever wants to the material, so long as they aren't disruptive.

When the teacher has to slow down the class because there are students in it who don't belong, it affects everyone.

No one "has to" slow down. That's a bad teacher who needs to do their job properly.

This is my neighbor’s biggest issue with teaching AP classes. She has students in some of her classes who cannot do the work because they read below grade level and have frequent absences. Because of the public school district’s obsession with equity, those students are allowed to sign up for her classes. She’s required to accommodate them which slows down the students who are prepared for the class.

It shouldn’t. Accommodation can take many forms. PowerPoint outline notes (they provide this in college and med school). Dedicated time to stop by during lunch or after school for assistance. Referral to tutoring or support class. Referral for reading evaluation services. Email reminder to entire class the week of exams and ensuring dates are correct and up to date in Canvas. Request if a conference w/ student and counselor. Study guides. None of these require slowing down the class.

AP classes are not on-level courses. Kids should not be gate kept from them and should be encouraged to take challenges. They should also be provided the expectations of taking such as class (ie you will need to devote 30-45 mins per night to this class).

You are completely unrealistic about what happens in classrooms. The teacher is not going to let the unprepared kids fail; the class will inevitably have to move slower. - AP teacher

We’re not unrealistic about what happens in some classes. What we’re saying is there is no reason to slow down a class unless the greater majority of the class is not prepared. This doesn’t mean “letting” the unprepared kids fail. Set expectations clearly set up front, document them, provide the necessary supports and resources for students.

Just like students are coached to choose challenging courses, they can be coached to put in the necessary effort to pass.

Additionally, what needs to be looked at is if kids have been provided the supports early on to ensure they are prepared for challenging courses. That could be summer programs, tutoring, etc.

When those students are minorities, you'd better believe the teacher is instructed to slow down the class if that's what is required for students to pass. Lots of reteaching, retakes, offering personal time (before/after, lunch breaks) is expected. I only wish the student's grade in the class was heavily based on their test score. But since students aren't required to take the test, that won't happen.

Is it true that students are not required to take AP tests? I don't understand how it's okay to get the GPA boost from taking an AP, but not be required to take the test.

The GPA boost is about taking more a difficult class with more content and more effort needed during the actual school year than an on grade level class. The AP exam is about demonstrating cumulative knowledge and getting university credit/advance standing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even putting $1000 on a credit card at 20%/yr s a better deal than any year of college. Financial aid for lower middle class isn't that generous.

The real risk is the wasted money from all the kids who will fail the AP tests. MoCo already has a 25% failure rate, sure to increase when tests are free.

This is what happens when you let anyone sign up for AP classes. Students should have a proven track record of academic success in previous honors courses prior to being allowed in AP classes.

Don't even need that. Just need to give legit quarterly exams to show progress and qualify for AP exam. Nothing wrong with exposing whoever wants to the material, so long as they aren't disruptive.

When the teacher has to slow down the class because there are students in it who don't belong, it affects everyone.

No one "has to" slow down. That's a bad teacher who needs to do their job properly.

You have no idea what you are talking about…

[Anonymous]

Since they are paying this year, we'll find out if more students actually take them. Some teachers do not actually prepare the students for the test, and students don't always self study or know how to prepare.

[Anonymous]

Try to form study group with peers who are taking the exams.

[Anonymous]

Do students get tutors to prepare for exam?

[Anonymous]

take times practice tests