APS: Washington Liberty will be minimum 2700 students by 2025

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A relatively high performing, economically homogeneous high school can do well with an enrollment of 2700 or more. That is the case at schools like New Trier in Winnetka. It won’t be the case at W-L and parents will be increasingly unhappy with how their average kids fall through the cracks there in the future.

With the current demographic balance W-L should do well at 2700 students or 1000 students, or 3,000 students, etc. If the balance were to shift and APS were to rezone more single family home neighborhoods away from W-L to Yorktown to account for population growth in the southern part of the county, then yes, average kids may fall through the cracks.

That’s literally what’s happening. They are moving Wakefield units to WL and YHS IB transfers are shrinking— this year there were many rejections in fact.

1. Not surprised about this.
2. How do you know this?

If true it’s a shame APS is using IB to reduce overcrowding at Wakefield. The IB program at W-L was not designed for that. The lottery based admissions system was designed to give all 8th graders a fair chance at entry.

Hasn’t it always been true that everyone got into IB who survived through the last minute ridiculous waitlist? Like, they were letting in kids the day before schools started? Is this going for be the first year they don’t? If so, is it only YHS kids who are being excluded? This seems deeply wrong to a handful of kids.

That have space for 400 kids, and YHS is not overcrowded. They are transferring 100 students a year from Wakefield so yes only YHS will be excluded.

So if you are an 8th grade kid in Arlington you are guaranteed the option to do the IB program ONLY if you are not zoned for a single HS, Yorktown? How many kids is that? I mean, this seems incredibly wrong.

Historically, am I right that all kids who waited it out got in? For the first time ever, we are preventing a handful of kids from doing some great program they really want because of where they live when most Arlington kids are afforded that option?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A relatively high performing, economically homogeneous high school can do well with an enrollment of 2700 or more. That is the case at schools like New Trier in Winnetka. It won’t be the case at W-L and parents will be increasingly unhappy with how their average kids fall through the cracks there in the future.

With the current demographic balance W-L should do well at 2700 students or 1000 students, or 3,000 students, etc. If the balance were to shift and APS were to rezone more single family home neighborhoods away from W-L to Yorktown to account for population growth in the southern part of the county, then yes, average kids may fall through the cracks.

That’s literally what’s happening. They are moving Wakefield units to WL and YHS IB transfers are shrinking— this year there were many rejections in fact.

1. Not surprised about this.
2. How do you know this?

If true it’s a shame APS is using IB to reduce overcrowding at Wakefield. The IB program at W-L was not designed for that. The lottery based admissions system was designed to give all 8th graders a fair chance at entry.

Hasn’t it always been true that everyone got into IB who survived through the last minute ridiculous waitlist? Like, they were letting in kids the day before schools started? Is this going for be the first year they don’t? If so, is it only YHS kids who are being excluded? This seems deeply wrong to a handful of kids.

That have space for 400 kids, and YHS is not overcrowded. They are transferring 100 students a year from Wakefield so yes only YHS will be excluded.

So if you are an 8th grade kid in Arlington you are guaranteed the option to do the IB program ONLY if you are not zoned for a single HS, Yorktown? How many kids is that? I mean, this seems incredibly wrong.

Historically, am I right that all kids who waited it out got in? For the first time ever, we are preventing a handful of kids from doing some great program they really want because of where they live when most Arlington kids are afforded that option?

What do you suggest? We allow 50 more kids from YHS (4 years impact so say 15 year about) into WL and leave WHS over capacity and YHS under capacity? Or bus kids from WHS to YHS — probably an hour bus ride.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A relatively high performing, economically homogeneous high school can do well with an enrollment of 2700 or more. That is the case at schools like New Trier in Winnetka. It won’t be the case at W-L and parents will be increasingly unhappy with how their average kids fall through the cracks there in the future.

With the current demographic balance W-L should do well at 2700 students or 1000 students, or 3,000 students, etc. If the balance were to shift and APS were to rezone more single family home neighborhoods away from W-L to Yorktown to account for population growth in the southern part of the county, then yes, average kids may fall through the cracks.

That’s literally what’s happening. They are moving Wakefield units to WL and YHS IB transfers are shrinking— this year there were many rejections in fact.

1. Not surprised about this.
2. How do you know this?

If true it’s a shame APS is using IB to reduce overcrowding at Wakefield. The IB program at W-L was not designed for that. The lottery based admissions system was designed to give all 8th graders a fair chance at entry.

Hasn’t it always been true that everyone got into IB who survived through the last minute ridiculous waitlist? Like, they were letting in kids the day before schools started? Is this going for be the first year they don’t? If so, is it only YHS kids who are being excluded? This seems deeply wrong to a handful of kids.

That have space for 400 kids, and YHS is not overcrowded. They are transferring 100 students a year from Wakefield so yes only YHS will be excluded.

So if you are an 8th grade kid in Arlington you are guaranteed the option to do the IB program ONLY if you are not zoned for a single HS, Yorktown? How many kids is that? I mean, this seems incredibly wrong.

Historically, am I right that all kids who waited it out got in? For the first time ever, we are preventing a handful of kids from doing some great program they really want because of where they live when most Arlington kids are afforded that option?

What do you suggest? We allow 50 more kids from YHS (4 years impact so say 15 year about) into WL and leave WHS over capacity and YHS under capacity? Or bus kids from WHS to YHS — probably an hour bus ride.

Wait so there are 50 YHS kids still one the WL? I really doubt that. I think you saying there are 15 and if we do that for the next three years.

I don’t think we should analyze this question based on what might happen next year, where you are newly enforcing an exclusion to a program.

And why do you think all 15 from YHS are matriculating? I don’t think the WL this year has worked at all like that.

In a school of 2700, you are worried about addinfg probably ten kids this year who want to do IB on the basis of how the IB waitlist MIGHT work next work next year all because they happen to live in one zone when everyone else in the county is guaranteed a slot?

I want you anonymous poster to sit down with those ten kids. Seriously. You are high and mighty on here but they have good and valid reasons for wanting to do the program — just like the other children allowed to participate. Excluding them based on zoning when everyone else can paticipate and their numbers thus years are de minimis is a really horrible thing.

[Anonymous]

Lastly, if the excluded kids were Wakefield kids instead of Yorktown kids, would you feel differently?

We should not, in my view, be excluding either sets if children in my view under these circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lastly, if the excluded kids were Wakefield kids instead of Yorktown kids, would you feel differently?

We should not, in my view, be excluding either sets if children in my view under these circumstances.

The only guarantee for IB is to live in the WL zone, and that’s always been unfair to everyone. At least they are using the unfair system smartly to address overcrowding.

And the WHS PUs that were moved have already been announced, and were effective this past schoolyear and they were the same exact PUs that were recently moved out. I am unaware of any additional moves. There aren’t any potential moves listed on the APS Engage site. Do you have a link to other information or are you misinformed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lastly, if the excluded kids were Wakefield kids instead of Yorktown kids, would you feel differently?

We should not, in my view, be excluding either sets if children in my view under these circumstances.

The only guarantee for IB is to live in the WL zone, and that’s always been unfair to everyone. At least they are using the unfair system smartly to address overcrowding.

And the WHS PUs that were moved have already been announced, and were effective this past schoolyear and they were the same exact PUs that were recently moved out. I am unaware of any additional moves. There aren’t any potential moves listed on the APS Engage site. Do you have a link to other information or are you misinformed?

1). Since inception of the IB program, it is my understanding that APS has never turned away a student. I don’t know how long it has been one existence but say ten or fifteen years. Accordingly, changing a practice after a decade would be a significant departure from a decades+ worth of experience. APS’ practice for a decade is more significant to families than written policies it does not actually follow (as is true for every organization).

2). They opened neighborhood transfers to W&L but only from Wakefield, and, if you are at W&L, you can do IB. A previous poster said that the only kids on the IB WL now are YHS—which is what sparked my post (and some outrage). If the IB program was only guaranteed to W&L and Yorktown kids—but not Wakefield kids—there would be outrage, rightly. It is not a fair lottery system if 1/3 of the county is the only portion competing for limited spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lastly, if the excluded kids were Wakefield kids instead of Yorktown kids, would you feel differently?

We should not, in my view, be excluding either sets if children in my view under these circumstances.

The only guarantee for IB is to live in the WL zone, and that’s always been unfair to everyone. At least they are using the unfair system smartly to address overcrowding.

And the WHS PUs that were moved have already been announced, and were effective this past schoolyear and they were the same exact PUs that were recently moved out. I am unaware of any additional moves. There aren’t any potential moves listed on the APS Engage site. Do you have a link to other information or are you misinformed?

1). Since inception of the IB program, it is my understanding that APS has never turned away a student. I don’t know how long it has been one existence but say ten or fifteen years. Accordingly, changing a practice after a decade would be a significant departure from a decades+ worth of experience. APS’ practice for a decade is more significant to families than written policies it does not actually follow (as is true for every organization).

2). They opened neighborhood transfers to W&L but only from Wakefield, and, if you are at W&L, you can do IB. A previous poster said that the only kids on the IB WL now are YHS—which is what sparked my post (and some outrage). If the IB program was only guaranteed to W&L and Yorktown kids—but not Wakefield kids—there would be outrage, rightly. It is not a fair lottery system if 1/3 of the county is the only portion competing for limited spots.

To clarify, there is a minimum academic criteria for IB—very minimal, and I meant the above to apply to those student who meet that academic criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lastly, if the excluded kids were Wakefield kids instead of Yorktown kids, would you feel differently?

We should not, in my view, be excluding either sets if children in my view under these circumstances.

The only guarantee for IB is to live in the WL zone, and that’s always been unfair to everyone. At least they are using the unfair system smartly to address overcrowding.

And the WHS PUs that were moved have already been announced, and were effective this past schoolyear and they were the same exact PUs that were recently moved out. I am unaware of any additional moves. There aren’t any potential moves listed on the APS Engage site. Do you have a link to other information or are you misinformed?

1). Since inception of the IB program, it is my understanding that APS has never turned away a student. I don’t know how long it has been one existence but say ten or fifteen years. Accordingly, changing a practice after a decade would be a significant departure from a decades+ worth of experience. APS’ practice for a decade is more significant to families than written policies it does not actually follow (as is true for every organization).

2). They opened neighborhood transfers to W&L but only from Wakefield, and, if you are at W&L, you can do IB. A previous poster said that the only kids on the IB WL now are YHS—which is what sparked my post (and some outrage). If the IB program was only guaranteed to W&L and Yorktown kids—but not Wakefield kids—there would be outrage, rightly. It is not a fair lottery system if 1/3 of the county is the only portion competing for limited spots.

That’s not true. They haven’t always been able to accommodate the full waitlist. My guess is they are starting with WHS kids and will work their way down the waitlist for YHS, again because of crowding. It’s not unreasonable and not any more unfair than any other thing about having IB at just the one school and making everyone else lottery in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lastly, if the excluded kids were Wakefield kids instead of Yorktown kids, would you feel differently?

We should not, in my view, be excluding either sets if children in my view under these circumstances.

The only guarantee for IB is to live in the WL zone, and that’s always been unfair to everyone. At least they are using the unfair system smartly to address overcrowding.

And the WHS PUs that were moved have already been announced, and were effective this past schoolyear and they were the same exact PUs that were recently moved out. I am unaware of any additional moves. There aren’t any potential moves listed on the APS Engage site. Do you have a link to other information or are you misinformed?

1). Since inception of the IB program, it is my understanding that APS has never turned away a student. I don’t know how long it has been one existence but say ten or fifteen years. Accordingly, changing a practice after a decade would be a significant departure from a decades+ worth of experience. APS’ practice for a decade is more significant to families than written policies it does not actually follow (as is true for every organization).

2). They opened neighborhood transfers to W&L but only from Wakefield, and, if you are at W&L, you can do IB. A previous poster said that the only kids on the IB WL now are YHS—which is what sparked my post (and some outrage). If the IB program was only guaranteed to W&L and Yorktown kids—but not Wakefield kids—there would be outrage, rightly. It is not a fair lottery system if 1/3 of the county is the only portion competing for limited spots.

That’s not true. They haven’t always been able to accommodate the full waitlist. My guess is they are starting with WHS kids and will work their way down the waitlist for YHS, again because of crowding. It’s not unreasonable and not any more unfair than any other thing about having IB at just the one school and making everyone else lottery in.

That is not what I have heard. What years was this true? How many impacted students?

And if they are taking more IB lotteries from Wakefield than YHS—as opposed to the neighborhood transfer— that would seem to violate the terms of the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lastly, if the excluded kids were Wakefield kids instead of Yorktown kids, would you feel differently?

We should not, in my view, be excluding either sets if children in my view under these circumstances.

The only guarantee for IB is to live in the WL zone, and that’s always been unfair to everyone. At least they are using the unfair system smartly to address overcrowding.

And the WHS PUs that were moved have already been announced, and were effective this past schoolyear and they were the same exact PUs that were recently moved out. I am unaware of any additional moves. There aren’t any potential moves listed on the APS Engage site. Do you have a link to other information or are you misinformed?

1). Since inception of the IB program, it is my understanding that APS has never turned away a student. I don’t know how long it has been one existence but say ten or fifteen years. Accordingly, changing a practice after a decade would be a significant departure from a decades+ worth of experience. APS’ practice for a decade is more significant to families than written policies it does not actually follow (as is true for every organization).

2). They opened neighborhood transfers to W&L but only from Wakefield, and, if you are at W&L, you can do IB. A previous poster said that the only kids on the IB WL now are YHS—which is what sparked my post (and some outrage). If the IB program was only guaranteed to W&L and Yorktown kids—but not Wakefield kids—there would be outrage, rightly. It is not a fair lottery system if 1/3 of the county is the only portion competing for limited spots.

That’s not true. They haven’t always been able to accommodate the full waitlist. My guess is they are starting with WHS kids and will work their way down the waitlist for YHS, again because of crowding. It’s not unreasonable and not any more unfair than any other thing about having IB at just the one school and making everyone else lottery in.

That is not what I have heard. What years was this true? How many impacted students?

And if they are taking more IB lotteries from Wakefield than YHS—as opposed to the neighborhood transfer— that would seem to violate the terms of the lottery.

Okay, well maybe they are taking fewer IB students overall to allow for the transfers. In any case, it’s not unreasonable. I’ve heard of kids not getting into IB before, but that might mean they didn’t get in early on and by the time their waitlist number came up they’d already made other plans.

I think if your child needs a guaranteed spot in IB your only choice is to move to the WL zone. Again, that’s not fair either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lastly, if the excluded kids were Wakefield kids instead of Yorktown kids, would you feel differently?

We should not, in my view, be excluding either sets if children in my view under these circumstances.

The only guarantee for IB is to live in the WL zone, and that’s always been unfair to everyone. At least they are using the unfair system smartly to address overcrowding.

And the WHS PUs that were moved have already been announced, and were effective this past schoolyear and they were the same exact PUs that were recently moved out. I am unaware of any additional moves. There aren’t any potential moves listed on the APS Engage site. Do you have a link to other information or are you misinformed?

1). Since inception of the IB program, it is my understanding that APS has never turned away a student. I don’t know how long it has been one existence but say ten or fifteen years. Accordingly, changing a practice after a decade would be a significant departure from a decades+ worth of experience. APS’ practice for a decade is more significant to families than written policies it does not actually follow (as is true for every organization).

2). They opened neighborhood transfers to W&L but only from Wakefield, and, if you are at W&L, you can do IB. A previous poster said that the only kids on the IB WL now are YHS—which is what sparked my post (and some outrage). If the IB program was only guaranteed to W&L and Yorktown kids—but not Wakefield kids—there would be outrage, rightly. It is not a fair lottery system if 1/3 of the county is the only portion competing for limited spots.

That’s not true. They haven’t always been able to accommodate the full waitlist. My guess is they are starting with WHS kids and will work their way down the waitlist for YHS, again because of crowding. It’s not unreasonable and not any more unfair than any other thing about having IB at just the one school and making everyone else lottery in.

That is not what I have heard. What years was this true? How many impacted students?

And if they are taking more IB lotteries from Wakefield than YHS—as opposed to the neighborhood transfer— that would seem to violate the terms of the lottery.

Okay, well maybe they are taking fewer IB students overall to allow for the transfers. In any case, it’s not unreasonable. I’ve heard of kids not getting into IB before, but that might mean they didn’t get in early on and by the time their waitlist number came up they’d already made other plans.

I think if your child needs a guaranteed spot in IB your only choice is to move to the WL zone. Again, that’s not fair either.

You would say it is 100% unreasonable if this were happening to Wakefield kids.

[Anonymous]

To me this is just a numbers issue. They need to accept kids in a way that balances enrollment.

Also doesn’t the Rosslyn island go to Yorktown? Someone upthread insinuated this is a “rich YHS” verses poor “Wakefield thing.” The Rosslyn kids will be affected too. I’m still fine with it. We HAVE to start balancing enrollment.

[Anonymous]

Yes and they should move some kids across CP to WL and some kids from Kenmore to YT.

We are literally equa distant to WHS and WL. The county isn’t that large and enrollment could be more balanced with thoughtful rezoning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A relatively high performing, economically homogeneous high school can do well with an enrollment of 2700 or more. That is the case at schools like New Trier in Winnetka. It won’t be the case at W-L and parents will be increasingly unhappy with how their average kids fall through the cracks there in the future.

With the current demographic balance W-L should do well at 2700 students or 1000 students, or 3,000 students, etc. If the balance were to shift and APS were to rezone more single family home neighborhoods away from W-L to Yorktown to account for population growth in the southern part of the county, then yes, average kids may fall through the cracks.

That’s literally what’s happening. They are moving Wakefield units to WL and YHS IB transfers are shrinking— this year there were many rejections in fact.

1. Not surprised about this.
2. How do you know this?

If true it’s a shame APS is using IB to reduce overcrowding at Wakefield. The IB program at W-L was not designed for that. The lottery based admissions system was designed to give all 8th graders a fair chance at entry.

Hasn’t it always been true that everyone got into IB who survived through the last minute ridiculous waitlist? Like, they were letting in kids the day before schools started? Is this going for be the first year they don’t? If so, is it only YHS kids who are being excluded? This seems deeply wrong to a handful of kids.

That have space for 400 kids, and YHS is not overcrowded. They are transferring 100 students a year from Wakefield so yes only YHS will be excluded.

So if you are an 8th grade kid in Arlington you are guaranteed the option to do the IB program ONLY if you are not zoned for a single HS, Yorktown? How many kids is that? I mean, this seems incredibly wrong.

Historically, am I right that all kids who waited it out got in? For the first time ever, we are preventing a handful of kids from doing some great program they really want because of where they live when most Arlington kids are afforded that option?

No, not the first time ever.
Geographical priority for admissions always does this, and that's what used to be at Claremont Immersion. People bought in the neighborhood to be guaranteed a spot in the immersion program. APS finally did the right thing and eliminated the geographical preference.
Also, only WL students are "guaranteed" access to IB by virtue of where they live - in the WL zone. ONLY WL students have access to both AP and IB classes and taking just one or two IB classes if they want. Non WL students (by virtue of where they live) must be able to transfer in and take a minimum # of IB classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me this is just a numbers issue. They need to accept kids in a way that balances enrollment.

Also doesn’t the Rosslyn island go to Yorktown? Someone upthread insinuated this is a “rich YHS” verses poor “Wakefield thing.” The Rosslyn kids will be affected too. I’m still fine with it. We HAVE to start balancing enrollment.

DP. We do need to balance enrollments; but using academic program transfer policies is not the right way to do it.
Program admissions policies can be used; but only if they are fair policies system-wide, which the current IB policy is not because WL students are guaranteed access by virtue of being zoned to WL. IB should be full lottery, whether it's located at WL or not. THEN balance enrollment across the schools. Just like HBW, if IB is a set # of students, then a specified # of seats can be allocated from each of the 3 high schools.