Niece just finished her freshman year at University of Chicago. She hates it.

[Anonymous]

UChicago undergrad is clusterf***. A podunk poorly managed college spending tens of millions on marketing to masquerade as an elite, so status-obsessed strivers apply. None of the rich kids want to be there, it was a backup plan for every single one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She earned very high marks and she does not wish to return. And not just for known reasons like violent crime, weather, and its isolated location in the Midwest, and more specifically, on the deep south side of Chicago. We had a long lunch and here are her words in quotes: Her classmates are "repulsively obnoxious" and "insufferable," her professors were "checked out" or "barely spoke English," the university seems "unprofessional" and in "disarray," and most of the staff she encountered were "useless" and "incompetent." "It looks like a serious university but it does not operate like a serious university."

It was not her first choice but she was so excited when we met for lunch late last summer. It is sad to see her so unhappy after a year.

You realize it is hard to take you seriously when you lead with “the violent crime” and the “isolated location”.

First, the area around the school has crime, but the school itself is fine.

2nd… a city of 5 million people is hardly an isolated location.

Why even mention those two points…doesn’t sound like they had anything to do with your niece liking or not liking the school.

The location, weather, and crime is why the campus ethos is lacking, from faculty and administrators to low-level staff. If you were a high-flying researcher or administrator, would you prefer the coasts, the warm Sun Belt — or south side Chicago crime and cold weather? If you were a nurse or a random service worker, would you want to work downtown or the wealthy north and western suburbs of Chicago (for more pay!) — or commute down to the dangerous and isolated south side Chicago island the campus is in?

Some students may care a lot about lounging at the pool in the sun, but "high-flying researchers or administrators" would take Hyde Park over backwards, cultural wastelands like Tuscaloosa, Baton Rouge, etc. any day.

California (UCLA, Stanford, UCSD, USC, UCSB) is in the Sun Belt. As are research powerhouses including UT-Austin, Florida, Emory, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Duke and UNC. The booming South is a "wasteland" and talented people who can work anywhere in the nation love the idea of high crime, high taxes, terrible weather, and being on an isolated crime-ridden island in the Midwest. So what's that leave? You overpay for some rock stars but have to scrape the bottom of the talent pool to fill the rest of the roster, which impacts the ethos, vibe and professionalism of your campus. Why would a random talented staffer or service worker commute to the south side when they can make more working downtown or on the north shore? Draw a 5 mile radius around UChicago's campus and that's the bleak local talent pool.

The "Sun Belt" is a huge expanse that does indeed include some premier research schools in very desirable locales. But to suggest that the Sun Belt as a whole (i.e., any large university in the South) is more desirable for "high flyers" than Chicago is ridiculous, hence the given examples of Tuscaloosa and Baton Rouge (and certainly others).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UChicago undergrad is clusterf***. A podunk poorly managed college spending tens of millions on marketing to masquerade as an elite, so status-obsessed strivers apply. None of the rich kids want to be there, it was a backup plan for every single one of them.

And in fact, all the rich kids were kidnapped and brought there against their will. And the university is building barbed wired fences around all the housing to keep them from escaping!

[Anonymous]

I’m the OP of this post:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1067220.page

And the bratty, whiny niece in question is a prime example of what I’m talking about. Kids these days lack so much resilience — no grit, no perseverance, no ability to withstand hard times — that they ultimately explode in college or fail to launch. And that would happen regardless of whether the kid in question is at a “pressure-cooker” school (whatever the hell that means) like UChicago or UMD.

OP, your niece absolutely NEEDS to stay at UChicago. She NEEDS to show future employers and grad school admissions committees that she can survive and thrive in high-pressure environments. Your niece absolutely needs to develop grit and resilience, and that means that she needs to pick an employable major and get into a prestigious grad school program or work at the variety of finance or consulting firms that prefer Chicago grads.

And yes, prestige matters in the workplace. No question about that. A Chicago grad will have MUCH better employment opportunities than a UMD grad, full stop!

[Anonymous]

Is it possible that the complaints she raised are masking something else? UChicago undergrad is known for being miserable. I saw it firsthand when I visited campus because was considering their law school. In the course of wandering around some of the beautiful undergrad buildings, went to the bathroom a few times. Women's bathroom stalls covered in attempts at affirmation: you are more than just your grades, you matter and should be on this earth, no matter what you hear you're not a failure, etc. etc. It was honestly startling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:are you foreign?

No American would say “marks”

Or “Deep South side”

I’m not a fan of UC Hicago but it has better faculty than most t10s

If this isn’t a troll,

What she’s really complaining/ missing is boys - she’s wants the type that’s easier to find at Dartmouth, vandy or duke

Interesting comments. But missed the fact “was not her first pick”. Hmmmm

Being from a status conscious family, she probably settled for the next highest rank school among her acceptances.

Too bad she (and her family?) did not get the memo that FIT is what you should be looking for, in addition to quality of education.

[Anonymous]

UChicago may be a good fit for some but when we researched it recently, there was no separate engineering school, it seemed very intense, the surrounding neighborhood was iffy, and Chicago was going down the tubes

[Anonymous]

Haven't read all 7 pgs but what is she studying?

Bc professors not speaking English and/or being checked out is not uncommon at big name universities; the not speaking English is VERY common in math/science subjects.

As for insufferable students, also super common at top schools.

Maybe she needs to go to a lower ranked school or a smaller college where there is more hand holding. I mean yeah the staff at a major university in a city isn't going to hold your hand whether it's the registrar's office or the dorm services office or wherever; these are people from the city whose concern is coming to work, collecting a paycheck, and commuting home. They're not small town people in idyllic Vermont who feel SOO great about working for the university down the block and are SOOO proud of "their" kids and want to give them the best college experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She earned very high marks and she does not wish to return. And not just for known reasons like violent crime, weather, and its isolated location in the Midwest, and more specifically, on the deep south side of Chicago. We had a long lunch and here are her words in quotes: Her classmates are "repulsively obnoxious" and "insufferable," her professors were "checked out" or "barely spoke English," the university seems "unprofessional" and in "disarray," and most of the staff she encountered were "useless" and "incompetent." "It looks like a serious university but it does not operate like a serious university."

It was not her first choice but she was so excited when we met for lunch late last summer. It is sad to see her so unhappy after a year.

You realize it is hard to take you seriously when you lead with “the violent crime” and the “isolated location”.

First, the area around the school has crime, but the school itself is fine.

2nd… a city of 5 million people is hardly an isolated location.

Why even mention those two points…doesn’t sound like they had anything to do with your niece liking or not liking the school.

The location, weather, and crime is why the campus ethos is lacking, from faculty and administrators to low-level staff. If you were a high-flying researcher or administrator, would you prefer the coasts, the warm Sun Belt — or south side Chicago crime and cold weather? If you were a nurse or a random service worker, would you want to work downtown or the wealthy north and western suburbs of Chicago (for more pay!) — or commute down to the dangerous and isolated south side Chicago island the campus is in?

Some students may care a lot about lounging at the pool in the sun, but "high-flying researchers or administrators" would take Hyde Park over backwards, cultural wastelands like Tuscaloosa, Baton Rouge, etc. any day.

California (UCLA, Stanford, UCSD, USC, UCSB) is in the Sun Belt. As are research powerhouses including UT-Austin, Florida, Emory, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Duke and UNC. The booming South is a "wasteland" and talented people who can work anywhere in the nation love the idea of high crime, high taxes, terrible weather, and being on an isolated crime-ridden island in the Midwest. So what's that leave? You overpay for some rock stars but have to scrape the bottom of the talent pool to fill the rest of the roster, which impacts the ethos, vibe and professionalism of your campus. Why would a random talented staffer or service worker commute to the south side when they can make more working downtown or on the north shore? Draw a 5 mile radius around UChicago's campus and that's the bleak local talent pool.

Many people commute 5 miles to work. Moot point.

[Anonymous]

It is one thing to be a DCUM parent reporting about their own kid’s experiences. But an aunt? You’re just weird. I can’t imagine having lunch with my aunt, and her running to the Internet to tell a bunch of strangers about my college. You are truly a weirdo. Get a life, seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP of this post:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1067220.page

And the bratty, whiny niece in question is a prime example of what I’m talking about. Kids these days lack so much resilience — no grit, no perseverance, no ability to withstand hard times — that they ultimately explode in college or fail to launch. And that would happen regardless of whether the kid in question is at a “pressure-cooker” school (whatever the hell that means) like UChicago or UMD.

OP, your niece absolutely NEEDS to stay at UChicago. She NEEDS to show future employers and grad school admissions committees that she can survive and thrive in high-pressure environments. Your niece absolutely needs to develop grit and resilience, and that means that she needs to pick an employable major and get into a prestigious grad school program or work at the variety of finance or consulting firms that prefer Chicago grads.

And yes, prestige matters in the workplace. No question about that. A Chicago grad will have MUCH better employment opportunities than a UMD grad, full stop!

I'm not OP but it sounds to me like niece is doing just fine academically in a high pressure environment and has nothing she needs to proove. Just because she wants to go to a more socially well rounded college doesn't mean she lacks resilience. (whether she is whiny or not - really depends - I'm the PP above who thinks these over the top complaints were a rant, said in a safe situation with a trusted family member...probably just purging and certainly excessive in the process).

I didn't read your other thread but I know of many kids that are very resilient after going through COVID. (Bout our children's schools didn't phone it in and go easy....they maintained high level through COVID, despite being remote.).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:are you foreign?

No American would say “marks”

Or “Deep South side”

I’m not a fan of UC Hicago but it has better faculty than most t10s

If this isn’t a troll,

What she’s really complaining/ missing is boys - she’s wants the type that’s easier to find at Dartmouth, vandy or duke

Interesting comments. But missed the fact “was not her first pick”. Hmmmm

Being from a status conscious family, she probably settled for the next highest rank school among her acceptances.

Too bad she (and her family?) did not get the memo that FIT is what you should be looking for, in addition to quality of education.

Kids don't have the luxury of choosing fit. With these acceptance rates and the admissions trickery, you are lucky to get into 1 top 30 college. And if you need any financial aid, it is pretty hit or miss once you are outside of the top 15 or so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes this happens when you choose a college based solely on it being your highest US News ranked option.

She is really well traveled with best friends and an older brother at Ivies, UVA, Vanderbilt, Boston College, and Duke. Her senior year of high school and over the last year she has spent weekends or longer at like a dozen universities. She has a good handle on what she believes is lacking at Chicago.

Yes, weekend visits are the best way to discover how universities are run.

During her dozen of university weekend visits did she sit in many classes to see if the professors were checked out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She earned very high marks and she does not wish to return. And not just for known reasons like violent crime, weather, and its isolated location in the Midwest, and more specifically, on the deep south side of Chicago. We had a long lunch and here are her words in quotes: Her classmates are "repulsively obnoxious" and "insufferable," her professors were "checked out" or "barely spoke English," the university seems "unprofessional" and in "disarray," and most of the staff she encountered were "useless" and "incompetent." "It looks like a serious university but it does not operate like a serious university."

It was not her first choice but she was so excited when we met for lunch late last summer. It is sad to see her so unhappy after a year.

You realize it is hard to take you seriously when you lead with “the violent crime” and the “isolated location”.

First, the area around the school has crime, but the school itself is fine.

2nd… a city of 5 million people is hardly an isolated location.

Why even mention those two points…doesn’t sound like they had anything to do with your niece liking or not liking the school.

The location, weather, and crime is why the campus ethos is lacking, from faculty and administrators to low-level staff. If you were a high-flying researcher or administrator, would you prefer the coasts, the warm Sun Belt — or south side Chicago crime and cold weather? If you were a nurse or a random service worker, would you want to work downtown or the wealthy north and western suburbs of Chicago (for more pay!) — or commute down to the dangerous and isolated south side Chicago island the campus is in?

Some students may care a lot about lounging at the pool in the sun, but "high-flying researchers or administrators" would take Hyde Park over backwards, cultural wastelands like Tuscaloosa, Baton Rouge, etc. any day.

California (UCLA, Stanford, UCSD, USC, UCSB) is in the Sun Belt. As are research powerhouses including UT-Austin, Florida, Emory, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Duke and UNC. The booming South is a "wasteland" and talented people who can work anywhere in the nation love the idea of high crime, high taxes, terrible weather, and being on an isolated crime-ridden island in the Midwest. So what's that leave? You overpay for some rock stars but have to scrape the bottom of the talent pool to fill the rest of the roster, which impacts the ethos, vibe and professionalism of your campus. Why would a random talented staffer or service worker commute to the south side when they can make more working downtown or on the north shore? Draw a 5 mile radius around UChicago's campus and that's the bleak local talent pool.

Many people commute 5 miles to work. Moot point.

Look at what is around five miles of UChicago. Some of the most horrific slums in the U.S. That is their local workforce or they need to recruit talented people from further away ex. downtown, but why would folks further away want to waste their life commuting an hour each way to the dangerous and isolated campus on the south side for work, when they can make equal or more money working in the much safer and less depressing downtown Chicago or in a nice western or northern suburb? It's illogical, right? Universities have thousands of employees, so when a large percentage are scraping the bottom of the barrel, and they struggle with retention, and fail to fill positions, the entire campus ethos does not feel like a premium product to students paying $85,000 annually. UChicago college students are not enjoying a polished Ivy League or Stanford caliber ethos. They're probably not even getting a Georgetown ethos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible that the complaints she raised are masking something else? UChicago undergrad is known for being miserable. I saw it firsthand when I visited campus because was considering their law school. In the course of wandering around some of the beautiful undergrad buildings, went to the bathroom a few times. Women's bathroom stalls covered in attempts at affirmation: you are more than just your grades, you matter and should be on this earth, no matter what you hear you're not a failure, etc. etc. It was honestly startling.

That's heartbreaking.